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2D 3/4 Perspective Platforming/Action RPG Adventure?

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by GazingUp, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    Hey guys,
    This is a question about design. I am in the process of making an action RPG/Platformer (think Hyper Light Drifter + Alundra). Is this even an attractive genre to venture into?

    Reason I ask is, the platforming alone is quite challenging. I mean, I have gotten the jump mechanic and jumping on objects down, but every time I open/close Unity, I find a new bug I have to fix, and these bugs have to do with the 2D Colliders, than the code. How realistic is it to create such a platformer title?

    I wanted the jump mechanic - primarily for platforming - but I don't want to lose the focus on the action bit. So I was thinking of disabling the "platforming" when combat started and allow for some jump attacks during combat phases. Is it necessary? I know most RPG's would handle this with just going around objects, or add slides/slopes to go up altitudes. I haven't even started on the enemies - I know I will encounter many bugs - but is it worth the effort? Let me know if this is a popular mechanic to have or potentially popular? Thank you.
     
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  2. YBtheS

    YBtheS

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    Any game worthwhile to create will have you spending long amounts of time on bug fixing.

    Are your concerns the challenge of creating the game due to bugs or whether it will be fun? I'm not familiar with Hyper Light Drifter or Alundra unfortunately.

    Interestingly enough, there's a fairly recent thread on this here.

    Sorry if this wasn't much help :p
     
  3. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    Both actually. I cannot find ANY 2D Action RPG out there that has the active jump mechanic besides Alundra, and its prequels. Every other Action RPG (even the one on Cross Code) isn't really the type of jump mechanic I envision.
    I worked a lot on this for the past 2 and a half months. I have the ability to jump on platforms (At least 1 level up for now) and fall off those platforms [ 1 level down ]. It can also jump from one platform to another (Although there is a tiny glitch when jumping upwards)

    I asked that question because I know there's going to be so many glitches and bugs, but I find myself thinking about this all day every day when I'm stuck on a bug and then I proceed to somehow fixing it. Is this a normal process? That's why I asked whether it's worth adding this jump mechanic? I would love it. But I read many people complaining about Alundra's jumps because they couldn't tell height differences and the "too precise" jumps. I learned from their mistakes and made the jump a lot more controllable like Mario's.

    My intent is to have a story rich action platforming RPG because I really enjoy exploration by jumping on things, and I really enjoy a good combat system - only makes sense to combine them. I can also just take feedback to see if people would like to see this in a game so I can get motivated to do this.
    :)

    Funnily enough, I read that post before posting mine (which is why I posted in the first place, nobody asked what I had in mind). Unfortunately he/she is asking if jumping is relevant in 3D games in general. For example Dark souls doesn't have any jumping. Only falling. Many 3D games these days don't have jumps so they were curious about that on the 3D spectrum. But I really really love 2D looks on my games so I didn't know if this was still a popular thing today.
     
  4. YBtheS

    YBtheS

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    I can't speak for other people but for me, that's fairly regular. A nasty bug that I can't fix for over a day tends to make me think that it's unsolvable until I solve it lol.

    This is true.

    I feel that the jumping that you describe could be accomplished and bug-free given enough time. I guess it also depends on how long your willing to work on this game for before release. I don't think that it'd be too time-consuming but I'm not very good at estimating coding time. If you were to add jumping, would you plan on making a 3D world with an orthographic camera to make it seem 2D? Or a different method?

    Perhaps the right way to go about this from the game design perspective is to identify any other problems with Alundra's jumping and find solutions. In the end, if you figure that you can fix any major problems you have (and preferably minor ones too) then it may be perfectly fine to add the jumping.
     
  5. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    I am not using 3D at all. I am simulating the jumping with the Y Axis as a simulated Z Axis. I think that's what Alundra did... I have been playing it to observe the jump, you can literally see the physical colliders in that game when Alundra is around the edges of the sprites he can jump on.
    What makes this very interesting to work on is the illusion of 3D with pure 2D. And it works so far!

    https://gph.is/g/ZYAwKW1
     
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  6. kdgalla

    kdgalla

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    It would enhance the illusion if you made a fake shadow- just a dark rectangle that's always directly underneath the player. The shadow would stay on the ground when the player is in the air, though.
     
  7. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    The shadow is already there! Look closely. It shows up briefly when the player is up in the air.

    In fact, without the shadow, jumping would be impossible since all my collision detection required for the jump and fall mechanic lie within the shadow object.
    Just like in real life when you think about it, without our shadows, there's no way we could tell where the ground surface is at and we would lose perception of height, so that's what made me realize this.
    At this moment, the shadow and player objects are different gameObjects, but both are in sync by sharing one script, so one has knowledge of the other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  8. kdgalla

    kdgalla

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    Ok, I see it now.
     
  9. YBtheS

    YBtheS

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    Ah okay. Well done!
     
  10. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    Is this still on the right track? Multi-level jump/fall. Is it obvious that there are two platforms above ground?

    https://gph.is/g/ZYxAzMn
     
  11. YBtheS

    YBtheS

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    That looks very good. Two things to note:
    1) Make sure that a jumping animation exists because the first jump sort of made it look like you were just walking onto the platform. I know that this is clearly just a test and the graphics aren't there yet. But when you get to graphics/animations don't forget that.
    2) I notice that you have a little 1 x 1 spot on the lower level surrounded by high-level spots. Make sure that if a player falls into one of those holes, they don't lose their character.

    Edit: About point 2, I seemed to have misunderstood what was going on. There's a confusing bit about the graphics here:

    It seems that you can jump to move along the blue line yet you can walk to get to the same place by walking along the black curve?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 2:29 AM
  12. GazingUp

    GazingUp

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    Very good observation. The jump trigger in the upwards direction is a bit janky at the moment. The shadow object basically has 4 colliders to detect for jumpable tiles, and fall tiles, and when I am jumping up, the fall detection sometimes goes off for the upwards fall and it gets weird - so I make him jump up by moving the shadow slightly (0.7) points greater than 1 tile up, so that it is away from the fall tile and the upward fall collider doesn't hit. I have yet to completely get rid of all the bugs involved with the collision detection.

    Another good observation. This is the exact reason why Alundra had complaints from people.


    Some platforms would be difficult to guage on the jumping on this game.

    One thing I could think of is to add some kind of a design around the tiles that are at the edges. Like tiles that fall if the player moves up, would have some kind of ledge design on its upper portion of that tile. Would that make sense you think?
     
  13. YBtheS

    YBtheS

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    Sounds good!
    Yah that's what I was thinking of actually. Try making a prototye like that and seeing if it works.