Search Unity

Cluster rendering or nDisplay (Unreal Engine) equivalent?

Discussion in 'General Graphics' started by Retrokat, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Retrokat

    Retrokat

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Posts:
    11
    We're working on an interactive art installation that's 12 HD screens with one main processing computer with three nVidia Quadro P4000s and a sync card.

    We're working at 7680x3240 pixels and getting a framerate of around 40fps with Kinect real-time interactivity. Have turned off nearly all post processing, using minimal lighting etc.

    From what I've read on here, Unity used to support "cluster rendering" to multiple render nodes but old threads indicate it stopped working a few years ago and I didn't want to necro those. eg
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/the-state-of-cluster-rendering.498397/

    Confusingly Unity is now using the term 'cluster rendering' for unrelated lighting architecture in the HDRP.

    What we're after is an equivalent of this: https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-us/Engine/Rendering/nDisplay

    I really don't want to have to move to UE! Any ideas on if this can (now) be emulated in Unity?
     
  2. echuang98

    echuang98

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Posts:
    21
    I also want to know if clustering rendering is still supported. o_O
     
    Retrokat and VJzoo like this.
  3. madleen_unity

    madleen_unity

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Cluster Rendering is currently not supported any more (it was supported until 2018.1 I believe).
    However, we are currently working on fixing the issues that have stopped it from being supported and are planning to reintroduce it again in later versions of Unity by the end of this year hopefully!
     
  4. iaogiannakidis

    iaogiannakidis

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Posts:
    1
    Hello,

    any news on this? Is there a beta version we can apply to?
    Please @madleen_unity make an official update on this matter as it is quite important and critical to a lot of people working with clusters... With the alternative of nDisplay by Unreal, it becomes even more difficult to convince our stakeholders to stick with Unity.

    Thanks,

    Alex
     
    sebastien-barry likes this.
  5. JakeTurner

    JakeTurner

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Posts:
    137
    Sorry to say I don't have an answer to the question of whether the feature is supported.
    I am trying to find the answer.
     
  6. Matjio

    Matjio

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    58
    Hello,

    Here is an update.

    Before 2020.1: Cluster Rendering has never been officially supported and only used by very few people. We have been fixing lately a few issues and regressions that we are landing in 2018.4 LTS and 2019.3, but this system will be deprecated as it each time requires core changes.
    -We are now working on getting this system outside of the core in order to offer more flexibility for users and faster turn around on our side. We are putting all efforts to release this new system for 2020.1.

    For more information, please DM me.

    Best,
    Mathieu (Technical Product Manager Film-TV)
     
  7. Brainslum

    Brainslum

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Posts:
    53
    What's the state on cluster rendering and will this come out in 2020.1?
     
  8. Brainslum

    Brainslum

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Posts:
    53
    I saw the roadmap highlighting this functionality at copenhagen.

    Would love to hear official update on when we can use it
     
  9. Deleted User

    Deleted User

    Guest

    Hello,

    @Matjio You got any news on that ?
    I saw it was on improvements for 2020 alpha 7 and after no news, no doc, nothing :)

    I dont' want to go to UE please give me some good news !
     
  10. martinreimer

    martinreimer

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Posts:
    16
    Trying to keep this discussion going. We are in need of this type of solution to support multiple screens with multiple computers. @Matjio What are the latest updates on this feature?
     
  11. percramer

    percramer

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    Posts:
    5
    Any news on this?
     
  12. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    we need this to, go unity go unity we love you!!!
     
    sebastien-barry and dan_wipf like this.
  13. dan_wipf

    dan_wipf

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Posts:
    307
    pachermann likes this.
  14. sebastien-barry

    sebastien-barry

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    53
    Hi, just some new about cluster rendering should be great. I don't want to leave Unity for Unreal. Unreal is more and more present for events, tv shows, VR AR and one of the reason is ndisplay. Please give us a roadmap for cluster rendering. It's not possible to work on professionnal projects without a release date for this functionnality. I sent multiple messages to Matijo, but no answer.
     
    pachermann, joshcamas and dan_wipf like this.
  15. sebk99

    sebk99

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2020
    Posts:
    3
    For those needing cluster rendering, MiddleVR for Unity is still the best option! We just released MiddleVR 2.0 and we will soon have support for HRDP, DirectX 12 and curved screens.
     
  16. dan_wipf

    dan_wipf

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Posts:
    307
    @Matjio @JakeTurner
    Well Unity 2020.1 is out now... but no cluster rendering in it, so whats going on?!
     
    LostPanda likes this.
  17. Bluntfist

    Bluntfist

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Posts:
    2
    Any updates on this? Even a rough time frame would be sweet.
     
  18. dan_wipf

    dan_wipf

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Posts:
    307
    @Bluntfist I had a chat with Jarvis from the Asset Store Team. They wanted to release something 2020.1 but is pushed out dueto technical reasons. They wont talk alot about this feature really.. or even about when it comes again.. so we need to wait until offical news..
     
    LostPanda, pachermann and Bluntfist like this.
  19. Bluntfist

    Bluntfist

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Posts:
    2
    @dan_wipf Thanks for the update. While it sucks that it's not here, I'm glad it hasn't been completely forgotten :)
     
  20. DannyWoo

    DannyWoo

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Posts:
    15
    ok im waitting...too
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
  21. arturmandas

    arturmandas

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Posts:
    240
    @Matjio any chance for alpha/beta prelease package preview? I assume this is not suspended, given how hot the topic is?
     
  22. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90

    Dear @Retrokat ,
    you don't need to switch to Unreal, there is a Company who has Multiscreen Rendering since many years and it works on HDRP as far as i know.

    Reach out to MiddleVR: https://www.middlevr.com/2/

    Best Regards Pascal
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
  23. swredcam

    swredcam

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Posts:
    126
    So there is no equivalent to Unreal's nDisplay on Unity? I don't mean a third-party thing, I mean built-in. Unreal is getting some unreal press on this feature, it's hard to believe it does not exist in Unity.

    BTW, regarding middleVR, any time I see a company that does not mention pricing up-front, I avoid them completely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    LostPanda likes this.
  24. rsodre

    rsodre

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Posts:
    227
    This solution would envolve network and determinism.
    Probably will be at the bottom of the DOTS roadmap...
     
  25. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    MiddleVR is much more advanced as far as i know and has much more tools and capabilities then nview, but yes there is no Equivalent solution to Nview directly in Unity, that is true.

    Most solutions are form outside, the big strength from Unity is the Huge Community that brings the great stuff to the engine.
     
  26. swredcam

    swredcam

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Posts:
    126
    I don't agree on third-party stuff. In my experience a lot of it is very finicky on versions and it's just a lot more work than something that is built-in. I love the Asset Store, don't get me wrong, but for functionality vs. models, it's much better for functionality to be built in. It's surprising that Unity has apparently just conceded this loss.
     
  27. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    it is certainly a question what Assets, but we have worked with so many amazing assets and we had always luck with responsive and amazing developers behind the assets. We had many very sucessful project thanks to assets.
    Without Assets it would have been impossible to reach deadlines or even using a feature at all.

    I think in terms of Multiscreen rendering and Clusters people very much underestimate how much technology is behind this things, it is many years of development to even make it work, not to mention that many effects in game Engine are not made for multi cam.
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
  28. LostPanda

    LostPanda

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Posts:
    166
    The cluster rendering system has been tested internally very early, and relevant information can be searched through youtube. At present, the old system has always had various problems, and the problems have not been solved. Currently unity2020.2.1f1 has been released, but the unity team has no explanation for this.

    And now I have to switch to ue ndisplay, although I like unity. At present, the unity cluster has not been officially released. An important reason is that unity does not pay much attention to it and invests little, and the cluster relies on the unity internal network. The unity network system is very stretched. Everyone knows that Unity abandoned unet, but there is no formal alternative solution for a long time.

    After looking at ue, a lot of publicity was carried out in the field of industry and simulation. Most provide out-of-the-box solutions. As far as I know, the unity cluster solution has been tested internally from unity5.0, with a small range of internal tests, and some customers have purchased the solution.
    The deeper the love, the deeper the hatred. @Matjio @rsodre @swredcam @pachermann
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
  29. sdb7

    sdb7

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Posts:
    14
    Hi, got an interview today and i told them last time i check unity support cluster rendering (I am not realizing that is knowledge from Unity 5 era), and they will hire me if i am able to research into this and implement it..i am f*cked arent i..gosh..what a blunder..need to go to UE ASAP i guess and prepare good excuse..
     
    pachermann likes this.
  30. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    We have already produced commercially on LED Walls with Unity and MiddleVR on URP, HDRP and standard Pipeline it works like a charm!

    The whole approach is very technical and over expencive but Software wise we won't ever leave Unity, we love the Framework and the rapid Development possabilites.
    We have found nothing we could not visualize in Unity, it's always learning no matter what engine you use.

    The Huge community has all the devs you would ever need to programm eny kind of shader or tool for LED volume and rendering.
    Unity lives from Assets so i see no problem in unsing ithem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    dan_wipf likes this.
  31. swredcam

    swredcam

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Posts:
    126
    Pacherman, please share with us the rough cost of MiddleVR. I don't believe it resembles the typical Unity asset in terms of cost.

    Unity seems to be backing away from clustering. Earlier releases mention it but there is nothing in the current release.
     
    pachermann and dan_wipf like this.
  32. sebk99

    sebk99

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2020
    Posts:
    3
    Hi Swredcam,
    I'm working at MiddleVR. We don't have yet a pricing for virtual production because it is really a new market.
    I would love to get your inputs if you are available for a phone call next week ?
    Contact me privately if you agree ;)
    Have a great day,
    Seb
     
    dan_wipf and pachermann like this.
  33. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    Thank you so much for hopping in :)
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
  34. swredcam

    swredcam

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Posts:
    126
  35. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    Virtual Production is large field, i like the casestudies you shared thanks! You can use MiddleVR for Multiscreen btw.
    If you have that much Resoluition that you have to jum on multiscreen you have an amazingly large Setup, i would love to see some more about it if that is posssible? Please keep us posted :)
     
  36. sebk99

    sebk99

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2020
    Posts:
    3
  37. LostPanda

    LostPanda

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Posts:
    166
    This is good news and bad news. This means that unity itself may have abandoned the development of cluster rendering, and the midvr price is not transparent. There is one more choice for developers, in addition to ue ndisplay.
     
  38. percramer

    percramer

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    Posts:
    5
    MiddleVR costs thousands of euro’s for a license, so can you really call that a good alternative?
     
  39. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    really? where did you find the pricing?
     
  40. percramer

    percramer

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    Posts:
    5
    I got a quote from them, because we are also looking for cluster rendering. It is licensed per gpu and several thousands per license (5+). And don’t get me wrong, I am not saying it isn’t worth it!

    But for our projects it just isn’t an option. So we are now testing with unicave
     
    pachermann likes this.
  41. rsodre

    rsodre

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Posts:
    227
    Even if they released today, this will need a few iterations to get usable.
    So Unity is years away from Unreal regarding Virtual Production and nDisplay technology.
     
  42. dan_wipf

    dan_wipf

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Posts:
    307
    I jump in here, our team at vrfx is allready working with middleVR and Unity for virtual production, you can have a look at our instagram account for footage.

    For us we're really happy with the solution over the 3rd party plugin middleVR with excellent support and worth each penny!

    https://www.instagram.com/vrfxrealtimestudio/
     
    rsodre likes this.
  43. percramer

    percramer

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    Posts:
    5
    I didn’t say it wasn’t worth it :) As long as it is affordable for your projects, but mine can’t afford 20k for 3 gpu licenses ;-)
     
  44. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    Yea virtual production it is a expencive world, do you use LED walls in your studio as well?.
     
  45. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    Why do you think it is not usable?
    The tech works perfectly in Unity, there are a few problems with screenspace effects in HDRP but we will overcome this as well.

    Afterall it is a new frontier that takes time, what we like most is that we can program very quick almost everything in unity for setups.

    cheers!
     
    richardkettlewell and dan_wipf like this.
  46. rsodre

    rsodre

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Posts:
    227
    You just answered yourself, it takes time, and that's a huge delicate task. Unity is turning itself upside down, with so many systems being re-developed from scratch, and they are investing heavily on other markets like Architecture and Automotive. I never seen Entertainment or Live Shows as a priority, so I doubt there's a big team working on this, or any team at all.
    Even if they release today, based on previous package features, it would probably be preview/experimental, with a few limitations and not recommended for production.
     
  47. pachermann

    pachermann

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Posts:
    90
    Nope i did not answer myself, my question aimed at you, if you have worked with it.
    And i think you don't see the whole picture, it's weird to claim unity don't have an entertainment team and can not be used for these fields.

    It is used in many places for Film and Virtual Production, i have no worldwide user statistic, but the engine is used from many vendors for film, animation, previsualisation, LED volume tracking and much more.
    They have whole workshop series where they show how to get into it "road to real-time" it's called for example.
    If you say they have no NDisplay for free, but your claim for the rest is simply wrong.
    MiddleVR is the same technology, but it is not free in the engine that is the only difference, the market for this use is so small so i think it's clear why they used their time on other tech.
     
    dan_wipf likes this.
unityunity