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Official Accessories for the Townsfolk

Discussion in 'Open Projects' started by cirocontinisio, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Link to task card on the roadmap.

    Hey all, let's open a thread to discuss and post the 3D models we will create to decorate, differentiate and make more unique the characters that roam the town in the game.
    Hats, bracelets, earrings, pins, wigs, masks, and potentially tools to hold, anything you can fit on the 3D model in a sensible way (i.e. we can't swap clothes, that would require the clothing to be a separate 3D mesh - which is not).

    2 - New Eye.png

    (we have a more masculine and a more feminine 3D model already in the project)
    This is the Townsfolk card in the game design wiki.

    This is an ongoing task, in the sense that we won't close it and we can always do with more items.

    You're welcome to post drawings/sketches first, or directly open a PR against the art-assets branch on the repo.
     
    itsLevi0sa likes this.
  2. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I have raised a pull request for now double-sided the sombrero. Sombrero.JPG
     
  3. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Nice! But I need to ask you for a few tweaks before I can accept it:
    - Can you reduce the polygons a bit? It's currently 1472, could it be around 900-850? I think the top especially has a lot of unneeded loops.
    - At the same time, the cap has a hole inside. I would say we should cap it, so we can use the cap in another situation. Or they can take it off. You can put way less polygons inside.
    - There is a lot of waste on the texture, which is currently a 2048x2048. Can we reduce it to 512?
     
  4. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    It was around 900 before you asked me to make it double sided. I also doubled the texture for making it double sided. And I left the hole on the inside to save polygons - else of course making it double sided would have exactly doubled the amount of triangles.

    But as you like - I will submit a new pull request for a low quality sombrero. Because reducing polygons comes at a price, of cause.
     
  5. iMakega

    iMakega

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    Some question (@cirocontinisio) before I contributing on this:
    • Is skirt, hoe, or musical instruments is ok?
    • Is it permissible to design accessories that are the culture of a country?
    • Is a tech era thing permissible here? Like watch, shoes, or maybe glove or spectacles.
     
  6. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Hey @iMakega , things are still (and will be) constantly taking shape as we figure out more details about the town and missions we are making. My guess is that we are not going for something too modern (again..my guess) , but the current blue-sky thinking phase of the discussions points towards a basic structure, introducing some inventions mainly related to cooking of course. Who knows, maybe they have invented a watch, it would definitely help them with cooking! Maybe we could have our own equivalent of the "White Rabbit" from Alice in wonderland, a nervous-muttering character that makes sure everything is done on time, encountered at various scenes. This is just an idea I got on a whim.
    If you'd like to have a general overview of what has been thrown in the table so far by various discussions on different related threads, there is a community-driven free online collaborative platform (https://lucid.app/lucidspark/invitations/accept/477585e2-f654-47b0-b10c-27dbf8506ad1 ) you could take a look on (and even add something yourself, after making a relevant post to the forums first to contribute to the discussions). This is non-official of course, which means nothing should be taken for granted but it might give some inspiration for accessories.

    (It's a whiteboard that attempts a summary mainly from the Whiteboxing Thread , Concept Art Thread , Naming Characters and Things Thread , Level Design Thread, 3d Art Thread regarding the town, festival and characters discussions as each thread can add-take something different from this.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  7. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    The low quality sombrero is ready. 732 triangles, 512 x 512 texture - the handwoven look of the ribbon decorating the brim unrecognizable.

    I wonder if I may add this one to the pull request, it's 2659 triangles - not negotiable. modelling curls 41.JPG
     
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  8. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Have you thought about using some tiling? The texture is the same all around, after all. You could probably organise the UVs so that the texture repeats many times all around, and thus you'd get the same quality for a fraction of the cost.

    That hairdo is super fun! Good job!
    And yes, it's a lot of polygons, but it's so good I can't say but yes.

    Don't get me wrong, there's a reason why we're trying to stay low with the polygons: this is an empty scene, no scenery almost, but once the full game is running, every polygon we have saved will count!
     
  9. Smurjo

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    Actually I used to use tiling a lot. But then I watched a video you made, explaining overlapping UVs are bad for the lighting. Not relevant here?
     
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  10. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Not when the UVs are used for Albedo/Colour, only when used for lightmapping (often called "secondary UVs"). So it's not an issue in this case, you can tile if it saves you texture space!

    In this project the secondary UVs are always generated by Unity when baking (when the parameter "Generate Lightmap UVs" is checked on the .fbx's import settings). I don't think any object has hand-authored secondary UVs.
     
  11. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Is it an issue if the texture isn't quadratic?
     
  12. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    You mean square, or do you mean a power of 2?
    It can be not square, but it should still be in a size that is a power of 2. Like, it could be 256x512.
     
  13. treivize

    treivize

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    Attached Files:

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  14. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I modified the textures, remapped the UV and created a new pull request including the curls and the sombrero.
     
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  15. Avatar_k0

    Avatar_k0

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    Hello!

    What do you guys think about masks? I started working on this one:

    Townsfolk_Mask4.jpg
    Townsfolk_Mask3.jpg

    Not sure how many polygons are too many (or to low)...
    I made a low poly model, applied subdivision, and then decimate.
    Edit: so I just found out about averaging normals and smoth shade! It makes things much rounder with so little effort!

    Anyway, accepting feedback before moving to texturing :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  16. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    It's quite cool! Do you plan to keep it with that lowpoly look, or do you plan to smooth it?
    (and when I say smooth I mean the normals, not to add more polygons)
    If you keep it with the hard normals like that, it can look like chiseled wood.

    One thing you could do is to remove some edges on the inside. Then you could save a lot?
     
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  17. Avatar_k0

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    I'm thinking about making it smooth, it might blend better in the game environment this way (I guess)

    Gonna try this
    Dissolved as many as I could before it started to look weird.
    Townsfolk_Mask5.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  18. Avatar_k0

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    Experimenting with it. Here are both option for comparison: Townsfolk_Mask6.jpg Townsfolk_Mask7.jpg
     
  19. Smurjo

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    Sure the rounding is a good thing, but not for everything - think about what you a want to express on that edge. If someone went through the trouble to carve out those teeth - instead of a straight line for a mouth that would have been easier, he would not round them afterwards, they look kind of blunt and worn off rounded. In case you are using Blender you can also define for the selected edges whether you want them sharp or round (I guess you possibly can with other modelling tools too - I just don't know them that much).
     
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  20. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    This was just a low hanging fruit after I had modelled all the curls.

    It's 376 triangles, the material is just a color, no texture (so far). Shall I add it to the pull request? ear curls.JPG
     
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  21. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    What is it? Is it like, ear hair? :D

    In any case, I was thinking maybe for those curls we could use a double-sided material? They are so small that nobody would really see that they are a flat strip of polygons.

    Yes, add them to the PR if you want!
     
  22. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Just be careful with the smoothing. For instance, since you used 5-sided faces, the smoothing looks weird around the mouth and on top of the eye. So you might want to adjust the topology a bit to make it flow better. 4-sided polygons smooth the easiest, but 3-sided can work too depending on how they are laid out.
     
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  23. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Sure I go for double sided rendering, just say so. Since the Sombrero I thought it wasn't an option. I also thought of having the ear hair with a texture with a alpha channel - but these hairs are really better in case the player sees the townfolk from the side:
    ear hair.JPG
     
  24. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Actually, one thing to verify is how shadows play with it. It might (and it's very possible) that the shadow is visible on both sides. That's why I immediately said no for the sombrero. But for the curls it might be ok, again, they're very small.
     
  25. Smurjo

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    For translucent material that would even be correct... for example for the flags I made in the concept art thread, or for leaves.
     
  26. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Actually, what I said wouldn't be an issue, since there is a way to "kill" realtime shadows on faces that don't look towards the light. This means that shadows wouldn't show up on "side B" polygons.
    I actually made a quick test the other week to fix a shadow spill that we have on 3D geometry.

    With that you can go from this:
    Original.png

    To this:
    Fixed.png

    And maybe later on we will introduce it. We'll see.

    Not sure if we can simulate translucency, for sure it's not in URP by default, we'd have to make a customisation to the shader.
     
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  27. Smurjo

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    I think translucency could be simulated through emission from the backface. This is kind of what happens physically, the light will be diffused in all directions. Apart from that translucent material will cast a normal shadow, the light that is diffused will not go through in a straight line.

    Since the emission through diffusion is quite weak, we might try whether we get away with ignoring it. We could just color the backface the same as the front, possibly slightly darker, including shadows.
     
  28. Smurjo

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    I have added detail mask tinting to the curls.
    detail mask curls.JPG
    Shall I add it to the pull request?
     
  29. erizzoalbuquerque

    erizzoalbuquerque

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  30. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Absolutely essential - I guess there is no easier way to tear down an old house...
     
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  31. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Somewhere in the gameplay thread there was talk about an old townsfolk giving the player a mission about some long lost recipy or ingredient. I don't know whether we will have it, but just in case I made an old lady. Not sure whether it's too much cliche - which is exactly what I tried to exaggerate.

    oldLady.JPG

    hairdo: 471 triangles, no texture, reusing detail mask from curls (512x512)
    spectacle frame: 222 triangles, no texture so far
    spectacle lens: 96 triangles, no texture
    skirt: 128 triangles, no texture, flowers are in detail mask (128x128)
    handbag: 138 triangles, no texture so far

    Shall I put it in a pull request?
     
  32. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Yes, the thing that is missing is that we don't have information on the thickness of the object, which is fundamental to get diffusion right. Without it, we can approximate it with one value per object (which would be on the material) but then the object would look wrong if seen at a different angle (unless it's a sphere :D).
     
  33. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    That's funny :)
    I would say: hairdo and glass look great.
    The handbag feels very modern, a bit out of place with the current setting.
    For the skirt... maybe the pattern is also a bit too modern for the setting. But more importantly: are you going to rig it? Keep in mind that a dress like that should move if the character is animated. So if she walks or even performs an idle, the skirt should follow.
     
  34. Smurjo

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    ... and I considered them quite old-fashioned. What an old lady would still use after having bought it 50 years ago. But of cause it is too modern if we think medieval... It's really difficult to say what was in vogue on the island 50 years ago, but I take your guidance...

    I could, I guess, albeit I don't know how it will be integrated with the female townsfolk. I haven't rigged something so far that isn't part of the mesh. But I am willing to learn.

    So far I had planned to cheat on the rigging though... I would simply make the skirt child of the lowest part of the spine. This way it would follow the spine movements but not follow the legs or move in itself. I might need to try with animations whether there will be any poke throughs, but I don't expect much since I have kept a generous distance from the original model. I have also used cloth renderer, but only for long and fluid skirts and I fear cloth renderer is out of question (is it?).
     
  35. erizzoalbuquerque

    erizzoalbuquerque

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    Hey, What about a mustache or a beard? Just a suggestion for someone more experienced than myself. I'm not ready for modeling organic shapes yet.
     
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  36. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I can do that. Do you want to make a sketch what you have in mind or shall imagine something myself?
     
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  37. erizzoalbuquerque

    erizzoalbuquerque

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    You can imagine it yourself if you don't mind. (I can draw something if you want but I have nothing in particular in mind right now)
     
  38. Smurjo

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    In this case, don't bother. I will come up with something.
     
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  39. shuttle127

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    I have been imagining the Gourmando character (assuming we use it) is the one with a moustache and/or beard, and perhaps a thick head of hair as well. It's probably too much to add, but an animation where he twirls the end of his moustache with his finger, whether as a nervous tick or just a constant habit, would be fun too. Like @erizzoalbuquerque though, it's not something I'm familiar with doing, but maybe I can start messing around after the first pass.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  40. itsLevi0sa

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    I had something in mind, @Smurjo would something like that interest you to give it a try? Not sure if you can add some weight to the characters, but I was thinking of having a local "tavern owner" ready to take your order, any time. Don't know what a cool name could fit that caricature (or his tavern if we assume we have one), perhaps something like "Ol'Jimmy" could do. Whatever :p Edit: @shuttle127 i added the moustache twist after reading your post, not sure if he could be Gourmando
    tavern_guy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  41. shuttle127

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    It's just a name that @cirocontinisio really likes, so I figured why not make it a prominent character? Tavern owner, head chef, doesn't really matter the characterization. Although now that I think of it, the tavern owner could still be head chef at his own establishment, which would be a good characterization since he basically talks to all the locals as well as the tourists, hears all the gossip, and knows the most about recipes in general anyway. Plus, aren't most tavern owners loud and jovial like what I suggested? :D

    Having it be both gives the character extra depth and could totally be one of those repeat/long-term quest givers who also provides Hamlet with a refreshment/break in between forays around the island. Now what thread to actually put this suggestion in since this is supposed to be about accessories and art and not words? :p
     
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  42. Smurjo

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    He is cool. I was also thinking along these lines with the moustache. That apron might be tricky, as I would need to rig it, which so far I haven't done. But if I can do the apron, I can put a fat belly inside...
     
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  43. Smurjo

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    The moustache is ready. 142 triangle, with detail mask tinting reusing hair detail mask (light and dark hair color of the moustache can be changed).

    moustache.JPG

    How about the pencil then? That shouldn't be too hard.
     
  44. itsLevi0sa

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    I could give it a try perhaps. Also (referring to another post), I'd totally support any attempt on the modelling of that critter bike! Plus, it would give a nice base to try animate a character riding it, it made me think of actually having a mailman/delivery character using it. I mean who knows, if we actually go through the effort and people like it, it might even become a key NPC out of nowhere (or not, it shouldn't matter). Or your two curly-haired females, which in my mind seem like good fits for Panna Cotta and Paella Bechamel (taken from that Naming Characters thread post) they could definitely spice things up in our scene with some cool dance moves (thinking of possible -not exactly needed-but cool animation ideas from the posts here). Yes we could live without them, but these are touches I would personally like to see :) Anyway, too much talking, just wanted to give a big thumbs up for all the ideas thrown out there, nothing is wasted!
     
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  45. erizzoalbuquerque

    erizzoalbuquerque

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    It seems easy enough. But right now, I'm trying to create a frying pan using the knife and the pot as reference. The townsfolk like to cook, right? Maybe one of them can have a frying pan on the back like a sword hehe
     
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  46. Smurjo

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    Looks like I will be able to rig it - unfortunately Hamlet has to wear a flowered skirt for demonstration:
    gif_animation_001.gif
     
  47. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Oh god :D

    One thing, for modifications like these (this is for whoever models them): try not to think of clothes as "layers" on top.

    First, that's going to be a nightmare to model, rig and animate. It means that there will be a lot of "compenetration" between the underlying clothing and the new one, or that you need to make it really wide.
    Second, that adds A lot of polygons.

    The solution?! I'll let YOU folks think of it :p
     
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  48. danten66

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    Would something like this work? I picture the solid one being a wicker basket pattern, while the stick one has a rope for straps? I don't know how they would integrate once in Unity however. The Wicker is about 960 tris while the stick is about 1250 right now.

    pack_Basket_Male_v1b.png pack_stick_female_v1a.png pack_stick_female_v1b.png pack_Basket_Male_v1a.png
     
  49. Smurjo

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    I did some research on handbags, they have been around a while, also all around the world, like in South America or Ancient Egypt or Germany:
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...t-purse-dog-teeth-science-handbag-friederich/
    I changed the proportions of the handbag, so they are now closer to the very ancient versions.

    For the skirt I went for a tartan pattern, which comes kind of natural with weaving. The oldest known examples are from the bronze age. I needed to increase the size of the texture for the skirt to 128x128 since I was getting some kind of Moiré-Effekt with the 64x64. So this is what the old lady looks now:
    oldLady2.JPG
     
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  50. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    They are super good!! :eek:

    Yes, the challenge with stuff like this is that while the backpack itself can be rigid and attached to a bone on the back of the character, the belts/straps... you'd expect them to be floppy and following the movements of the arms. So for that we should basically attach bone weights to their vertices, so they follow those bones as they move.
    Then in Unity they'd use the
    SkinnedMeshRenderer
    , so the whole object would be deformed according to the bones' movements.
    Do you know how to do this weighting operation in Blender?
     
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