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ZBrush or Mudbox or 3D-Coat?

Discussion in 'Formats & External Tools' started by islanddreamer, Jun 20, 2009.

  1. islanddreamer

    islanddreamer

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    There's just not enough hours in the day to experiment with and learn the in's and out's of all the software options out there.

    I need a sculpting tool and I'm leaning heavily towards 3D-Coat due to price. I'm worried that it's new and doesn't have the quantity of training materials available for the other two heavyweights. Mudbox seems easiest to use, but it's also the most expensive. ZBrush looks like a nightmare to learn, but the upcoming features and free update to version 4 are enticing.

    Anyone out there done this analysis? Or can you point me to an objective comparison of the strengths/minuses of each?
     
  2. BenH

    BenH

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    I havent used 3d coat, but I have Mudbox and Zbrush. Mudbox is definitely easier to learn, but I think Zbrush is the better software. Just buy a few tutorial dvd's for Zbrush and you will be up to speed in no time. Not to mention Pixologic gives free upgrades and Autodesk doesn't. Plus I'm sure Z4 will make Mudbox look like a bad investment. That being said, artists a lot better than me create amazing things with both softwares, so in the end I guess it doesn't matter much :)
     
  3. islanddreamer

    islanddreamer

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    I guess my real question is can bad artists like me get anything out of any of these programs? :roll:

    3D-Coat really looks great, though. I've been sitting in on a web conference reviewing its features, but they haven't touched on exporting yet.

    Besides the UI differences, that's the real crux of the matter: how well will these programs interoperate with other 3D programs and ultimately with Unity?
     
  4. BenH

    BenH

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    Well with the introduction of the GoZ plugin http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=71414&highlight=goz Zbrush will be seamless with most 3d apps. As for these programs being compatible with Unity, it is a non-issue, because all of them just export normal maps to be used on a shader in Unity. The whole pipeline bottleneck occurs going from sculpting package to 3d app. And GoZ looks to make that much better.
     
  5. giyomu

    giyomu

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    Well,

    I know 3D coat because i use it a lot fr all my per pixel painting stuff and this is great for that.
    3Dcoat voxel sculpting look really good as it allow fro a different way that don't rely on polygon behaviors, so you can do whatever you want.

    but I think that Zbrsuh is definitely better for teh way you feel things when sculpting, people complain a lot about UI , well OK not that easy , but isnt because we are too much playing with some traditional software and don't get rid of that workflow.

    Spend hours with it and you will forget Zbrsuh UI :D

    Mudbox , well never use that much, everytime get it to crash or having stability problem on my system, he dont handle as much as zbrush and also dont allow for a more traditional artistic approach like sketching / concept from nothing, even 3Dcoat allow to have this workflow.

    I will say fro the price 3Dcoat is best placed and have a good workflow , easy to insert in your pipeline, output normal mapping is really good , retoplogy tool also are really powerfull.
    For texturing tool this is a top application , for sculpting , I ma still prefer Zbrush, but I admit that i didn't go far with voxel tool for now.

    Zbrush 4 will be certainly kick ass, and will throw mudbox far behind in term of performance and tool ( he already do ^^ ).

    So if your target is only sculpting I will say go Zbrush, if you want some painting tool for low poly stuff you should digg more into 3Dcoat and see if the sculpting it offer can be enough to your need
     
  6. malc2304

    malc2304

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    I would add another vote for Zbrush. While mudbox you will use it and feel like you have been using it forever because the UI is done so well the tools just don't cut it for me they introduced alot in 2009 enough for me to get a license but I just don't use it as the sculpting didn't feel right.

    Zbrush on the otherhand the interface is a little clumbsy but once you use it for a while it is no longer really an issue.
    I am also not keen on the camera I would preffer a proper 3D camera. But the tools and workflow are superb the sculpting feels very natural working between applications is simple enough and this is only going to get better with GoZ with one click moving between software.
    If what the few vids they have shown on Z4 are anything to go by the next update is going to be amazing.

    Also with a Zbrush license all updates are free or at least I got mine at version 2 and will get Z4 for free I have no idea if they will carry on doing this beyond Z4.

    I have never tried 3D coat but from what I have seen it looks to have potential.
     
  7. jbuck

    jbuck

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    Take some time to look at the work produced with all three of these programs. Most people agree that Zbrush is hands down the king of digital sculpting because of the unbelievable level of work produced.

    Some other things to consider -- Zbrush has an amazing community with over 2 million users of the Zbrush forums. This is a valuable resource when trying to learn this (insert odd here) program. I totally agree with the perception that Zbrush is easier to learn for people who no previous (or little) experience with 3D. :?

    Zbrush is more of a natural media tool in terms of using clay and rake brushes as opposed to Mudbox, which is getting there but has some catching up to do.
     
  8. islanddreamer

    islanddreamer

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    It's great to hear that you've successfully used 3D-Coat giyomu, since I know that you also use Softimage XSI like I do.

    Have you encountered any issues interchanging meshes and uv's between the two programs?

    As for ZBrush, it probably is overkill for me given my limited sculpting needs and increasingly limited brain matter! :D
     
  9. jamestory

    jamestory

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    Firstly i'll caveat by saying that i am not an artist, and and not very familiar with 3D painting and Modelling at all.

    I have 3D coat and Zbrush, and i have tried Mudbox. MudBox does have a really nice interface, and seemed very easy to get into, however something about it just put me off.

    Zbrush i am sure is awsome, but damn its strange. I am still really struggling to understand it.

    3D coat, is really nice and simple. No doubt it lacks many features of these other two expensive packages, but often especially for simpletons like me that's not a bad thing, as it lets me get into a package quicker. The voxel drawing and repo tools are also great freebies. All in all i don't think you would be upset with 3D coat, but you dont really need to take my or anyone elses word for it, MudBox, and 3D coat both have 30 day trials, and zBrush will have a trial when they release v.4, so try them out yourself.
     
  10. jbuck

    jbuck

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  11. jamestory

    jamestory

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    thanks for that link, forgot to mention its the Mac trial which is still going to be a few months, Windows has a Zbrush trial.
     
  12. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    One more vote for ZBrush.

    I tried all three and ZBrush easily has the highest polycount while still maintining a smooth framerate for sculpting.
    The interface *is* weird but you'll be rewarded with a very fast workflow once you start to understand it and I think ZBrush has the best 'feel' of sculpting of all those.

    I should mention that I also like Modo's displacement-paint-sculpt mode. More than 3D coat. Yet I've only tried the demos of the latter two.
     
  13. jamestory

    jamestory

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    Just came across this little program the other day. Its actually quite nice.

    Obviously not in the same league as ZBrush or MudBox, but is probably a fair competitor for 3D - Coat. Its sculpting tools are very smooth, and its 3D painting very simple. The interface is also completely different and very straightforward. Depending on your needs and skills it might be worth a look. Price is not bad either at 59 euros.
    http://www.n-sided.com/3D/argile.php?rub=1
     
  14. emptythetill

    emptythetill

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    I never thought I'd say this, but I vote for ZBrush also. I've recently moved to it from Mudbox because it's much faster. Shame about it's dreadful UI though.
     
  15. calabi

    calabi

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    Hi, I've tried both Zbrush and 3d Coat both whilst trying to learn to sculpt. I fly from one to the other, changing my mind all the time with which one is the best.

    For painting, and retopologising, 3d Coat is definitely the best. Some ways in Zbrush are just completely illogical, backwards, time consuming. Retopologising is one of them.

    However with sculpting modelling its hard to say. Zbrush you are just deforming a surface. As long as you have the basic shape and form of the object that you want and you wont deviate far from that shape then it works really well, the brush's feel very fluid, you can move and manipulate the surface quickly and in a very textured manner.

    Compared to 3d Coat you can model in a more precise detailed manner most of the time. 3D Coat lacks a masking tool, and the brushes can seem to be less accurate.

    In someways I prefer Zbrush in others I prefer 3D Coat. To build base Meshes 3d Coat is a lot better even against Zspheres2. The trouble is when you go to do the high details like eyes lips you have to increase the voxels and you lose performance permanently. It can be really hard to get those sharp edges high details, it takes more time.

    With Zbrush you can tangle the geometry stretch it too far etc. By no stretch is it user friendly or artist friendly, its processes and methods are very technical and confusing.

    I think I'm gonna have to stick with Zbrush because my PC cant quite handle 3D Coat. If it could I would probably stick with 3D Coat though.
     
  16. jbuck

    jbuck

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    I couldn't agree less with this statement. As someone who uses and teaches Zbrush professionally My experience has been that students who struggle with 3D in general take to Zbrush faster than any other 3D app.

    I also have a traditional painting and sculpting background and find Zbrush to be the most intuitive sculpting package out there which is why it's generally preferred over 3D Coat or Mudbox by traditional artists breaking into digital sculpting.

    I get questions about "why Zbrush" all the time and always fall back on showing the results of the program. A quick trip to Zbrush Central usually does the trick.
     
  17. maxfax2009

    maxfax2009

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    Hi

    I have Zbrush and 3dCoat.

    Zbrush I love and I like the UI :) and is the best for textures and sculpting - hands down - THE BEST.

    But 3dCoat retopology capabilities are out of this world and make this job so easy.
     
  18. calabi

    calabi

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    But then you would say that because you teach it, have you done blind tests, is your knowledge equal in all those sofware. The reason why its the most popular is because its the best and first at what it does, and like 3DS Max/Maya its the most commonly used in its field and industry. 3dCoat and Mudbox arent as well known or publicised. Zbrush is the best for general sculpting, but I dont think in its general approach, and if it isnt careful could be taken over by one of the others in that area and the sculpting.

    Compared to say something like Artrage where your just give a blank canvas with a few menus/tools that surround it and that are easily hidden. Zbrush however you have lots of menus and tools surrounding the tiny bit of canvas your given in the middle. With someone like that its overload to begin with. Like I have to know that? What does this do and that? They might have hundreds of questions before they've even started using it, it appears intimidating.

    For something to be art friendly it has to be as close to a blank canvas, as intuitive and logical as possible. Things need to be apparent on the UI and take as few clicks as possible. With Zbrush its UI and its approaches, I think it forces its users to be more technical and thus its artwork to be more constricted and technical.

    Thats just my opinion.
     
  19. philnolan3d

    philnolan3d

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    I'm surprised I didn't see this thread before. I used to be a huge MudBox fan, I really enjoyed it's interface and thought it did well for what it did. Then AutoCash bought it and it won't run on my system any more, it just crashes as soon as I load it, even after a re-install.

    Every once in a while I try zb and really find it just awful. Each time I try it I spend several days with it and just can't get past the awful interface. They really need to fix that and at least bring in 3D objects as 3D objects, not a brush or whatever they call it.

    3D-Coat... For the past 2 years this has been far and away my choice for sculpting and texturing, obviously for retopology too when that feature was added. Not only does it blow away the competition, it's author, Andrew Shpagin is a coding machine. He releases free updates with new features on an almost weekly basis. In between updates he even posts status updates to Twitter. He also really listens to the community, a number of times I've requested features and had them within a day or two. I have to make myself stop now, I can go on for hours about 3DC. Here's my latest project done with it (rendering and hair done in LightWave, everything else is 3DC)
    http://philnolan3d.com/images/artwork/orc_web_02.jpg
     
  20. techmage

    techmage

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    zbrush is the coolest and most comprehensive, zbrush can also do more than just sculpt meshes. It's also 2.5d paint tool so you can make 2d textures with it as well, and it is rather good at this.

    Zbrush also has more tools than the others, and more useful tools. Many more tools and plugins. Zbrush can interface with photoshop to let you paint your zbrush model in photoshop. The new planar, backtrack and noise functions are amazing. Theres alot of useful functions in zbrush that you won't really notice till you play with it some. But the thing that I like the most about zbrush is the feel of it when you sculpt. Zbrush feels the best when your actually laying down strokes on things.

    The UI can appear funky at first, but once you learn the basics of it, you'll understand why they did it like that. I actually find zbrush to be the single most intuitive UI there is for it's purpose.

    and pixologic also gives you the updates for free!

    zbrush is also the one that invented this mesh sculpting thing
     
  21. philnolan3d

    philnolan3d

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    I don't mean to argue, but many of the zb tools you mentioned are also available in 3DC, plus 3DC has many more tools that are not available in zb. You say zb invented mesh sculpting, but that's the downside, it's mesh sculpting. 3DC practically invented voxel sculpting. Just putting that out there.