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You know any Triple A game produced by unity engine before?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by thanhle, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Again, the Kerbal 2 trailer is prerendered.

    Going to Kerbal 2's Steam page you can see some Unity ass looking regular screenshots.

     
  2. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    What I meant was, there wasn't such a thing as the 'AAA' to Id's 'indie'. At least not in the way that those two are separated now. The games industry now has evolved to fill the size of the bucket that AAA money can buy, whereas before the technology limitations and relatively small industry kept the upper levels of game development within reach of a few friends in a garage or whatever.

    So indie innovation now will not look very much like it did back then. It would have to be on something new, untested and not mature, like procedurally generating a universe in NMS.
     
  3. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    I'm not sure difficulty factors into how creative the gameplay is. Things like social stealth, parkour/3D movement across an open world, the systemic opportunities of Watch Dogs with how many things you can interact with...the game being hard or easy doesn't affect that.
     
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  4. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Yeah, I agree. There are plenty of games I'm not interested in due to an uninteresting difficulty level. But being too easy isn't a fundamental "issue", it just means they're not made for me.

    Challenge is one thing that attracts one type of player. Some players are attracted by other things, such as the experential side of the game*, or social aspects, or the art, and so on. It's perfectly reasonable to make stuff for people who fit into any of those groups.

    * Technically not all of these fit the strict definition of "game". But that means "game" is the wrong word, not that the design is inherently bad.
     
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  5. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    According to Wikipedia the total cost of development for Wolfenstein 3D was $25,000 for the rent and salaries of the team, $6,500 for the computer used by John Carmack, and $5,000 for the Wolfenstein copyright. Altogether that's $36,500.

    Ultima Underworld started development with an advance of $30,000 with the final cost being $400,000. Just take a moment and think about that. Their first payment was almost the entire cost of Wolfenstein 3D. If that's not the equivalent of AAA versus indie then it's at least very close to it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  6. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    If gameplay amounts to pressing a button once and then waiting, then I'm gonna get bored. If I'm gonna get bored, then does it matter if it is "creative"? And the reason why I'm going get bored because the process requires no further input from me. It is automatic. "Press A to win" kind of thing. I'd need something more involved to enjoy it. Besides, there are other issues, like in AC 2 in tutorial you could beat up 40 people, and nothing would happen, because at this point guards are disabled. Moments like that make illusion of the world shatter into pieces.

    Like I said, we hadt hat before. Parkour and stealth. Hitman had a much more complex model of blending into populace (also had crowds), and parkour in Prince of Persia had more involvement.
     
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  7. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    $400,000 is nowhere near the cost of AAA these days, even if you factor inflation.

    The space was different a couple of decades ago. What you could do with technology and what customers expected from games had a lot of question marks attached. In those days, a programmer could come along and revolutionize something, and easily get the attention of investors and customers over 20 people polishing something that had already been done.

    Anyway, I think there are a lot more niches for indies to unlock and new stuff to do, but to think that all these big companies fighting for a small hill are not innovating is simply not true. The only weakness they have that indies can exploit is that they will typically not sacrifice quality even if the other benefits are massive.
     
  8. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Agreed, the disparity has definitely become greater but that doesn't change the fact that there were companies with access to way more money than others and (outside of extremely talented individuals coming together and making a game for way less than normal) were able to make more sophisticated games because of it.

    It's funny you say that as I was watching the post mortem for Diablo and one of the things brought up is that they had contacted 25 different publishers and the statement that was typically told to them was "No. RPGs are dead. There's no way we are investing in an RPG. This is ridiculous". Time stamped (10:25) video in the spoiler.


    In fact I can think of yet another example of a developer that was laughed at when they presented their ideas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls:_Arena#Development
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  9. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Diablo really isn't much like the RPGs that came before it, though. To the point that I honestly don't see it as a "role playing game". So I very much see both sides of that one.
     
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  10. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    Thats what innovation is, you take something and evolve it.
     
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  11. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    I don't want to go down an AC rabbit hole, but:

    Hitman had the character wearing different disguises, but to my knowledge didn't do the "hiding in a crowd" thing until Absolution, which came out in '12, 5 years after the first AC (also the longest gap in the series' release cycle, and I don't think that's a coincidence). I've never played PoP, but was it doing the parkour in an open world? Lots of games have setpiece-esque interactions in handpicked locations, but the enormous size of the AC maps required a technical approach to movement that still impresses me.



    Poor example (closest I could find after searching for half an hour), but you've got parkour from a moving object there. You can also do it from one boat to another - between two different moving objects in the game world.
     
  12. Acissathar

    Acissathar

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    Since it just released today, does Genshin Impact aka Gacha Breath of the Wild count?

     
  13. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    If netease open world game don't in this conversation, then this doesn't either. Everybody dries line in the sand around their taste, but the wind clearly don't care. In general people don't care about china, don't spend time on #madewithunity and make absolute gut check based on their little heart. Facts? Who need them? It's 2020 we are post facts!
     
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  14. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I'd rather not go in that direction. Crowds were done before in Blood Money anyway (which predates AC), and the problem with AC's "social stealth" is that there was too much fanfare for essentially becoming part of a particle system (npcs are particles there).
     
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  15. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    What engine was this game made with? I feel like it looks like Unity (in a bad way). I would be surprised if it's UE4 (the look of which I often like even less).

     
  16. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    It's an Oculus Quest game, not sure what you are expecting. It even looks too much for the original Quest, it's probably targeting the new one.
     
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  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    https://www.gameskinny.com/1jrbd/sn...traight-into-the-bloody-mayhem-of-world-war-2
     
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  18. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    It looks pretty ok I think for a VR/quest game. You can see the classic problem when using only baked lights that the specularity is missing which make it flat looking. They seem to only use mixed mode for directional light. We do the same mostly since we are on forward rendering makes things look really flat.

    Here with mixed mode
    upload_2020-9-29_8-44-26.png

    Here only baked upload_2020-9-29_8-45-25.png
     
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  19. Shizola

    Shizola

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    Maybe not AAA but this video has some interesting bits on how Unity was used for Ori 2
     
  20. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    It is an oculus quest title. It'll be behind modern graphics, because it runs on a device with a mobile processor.

    For comparison, this is the stuff that runs on oculus itself.

    This is unreal 4 title:
    upload_2020-9-29_16-54-10.png
    upload_2020-9-29_16-54-17.png

    This is "Hands" demo:
    upload_2020-9-29_16-54-49.png
    upload_2020-9-29_16-55-7.png

    And this is sideloaded "Contractors" demo:
    upload_2020-9-29_16-55-29.png
     
  21. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    Even half Life Alyx is somewhat behind other 2020 releases, it's just the nature of VR. Its hard to drive even for powerful desktops.
     
  22. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    Not only that, the Quest uses a relative old mobile processor one (for its release) which has to run games at near-constant 72 frames per second with a high FOV while producing two views per frame. It takes quite the effort to put out something that could pass as an early Xbox 360 games.
     
  23. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Thanks for digging up the info I was looking for!

    I'm well aware of the hardware limitations. My point wasn't "It looks bad because it's Unity", my point was "If this is Unity it's an example where a high profile franchise is using Unity in a situation where they want to target hardware that Unity just targets better than the engine they usually use."
    I'd count sniper elite as AAA, although that is debatable and I wasn't able to find out how high their budget was on the latest title, so I thought it's quite relevant to the discussion. The things I don't like about the look of Unity have partly to do with their default settings, partly with the performance cost of making things look as good as I'd want them to, and partly with other reasons. I'm not at all fond of the UE4 default look either, usually I like it even less.

    Interesting, I wouldn't have guessed from the screenshot. Although I find the things that are a giveaway for UE4 to be mostly visible in motion because of the temporal filtering on the post fx.

    Look wise, CryEngine remains one of my favorites.
     
  24. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    Early xbox 360 was back in mid 2000s thats 15 years ago. You can clearly see PBR materials doing its thing in that trailer.
     
  25. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    No temporal filtering in this title, as far as I can tell. Neither on Quest nor on PC. Perhaps I've overlooked it.

    PC version has higher texture resolution, and better lighting. There are actually dynamic lights in the scene:
    I refunded this game, though. Mostly because I felt like this game was trying to make me punch out my TV, as it consistently kept me turning towards the TV, and drawing closer to it, no matter where I start and no matter what direction. Also my setup had control issues.
     
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  26. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    Pixel lights and speculuraity is super important, luckily for us our kit loadout is pretty much the first place our players see and its super sexy with mixed mode lights



    vs Baked light with reflection probes
     
  27. lenneth4

    lenneth4

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    A simple question
    Do you think a team can make a 3D Playkit "who looks-a-like" like Dark souls 3 and is available on Unity ?
    If that exists, if someone can give me a link, i'd like to see how it looks.
    Or even Dead space 3
     
  28. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    The issue isn't making a "kit": look at the Heretic, it looks phenomenal. The problems begin when you try to scale that up to several thousands of assets of similar quality. Editor start up times start to get longer and longer, to the point you have to disable automatic asset refresh. Huge and dense scenes become sluggish to work with and you have to break things into subscenes (rewriting code to manage them and deal with cross-scene references). The stock terrain with its 8 layers won't scale if you have a large world and using multiple terrains starts eating away CPU performance pretty quickly. The time it takes to opening the project for the first time on a new workstation starts to grow into hours (with a cache server!), the list goes on. You have to keep scaffolding Unity with custom tools and workflows just to keep things workable. Heavens forbid you want a multiplayer Dark Souls 3 lookalike.

    It's not impossible, quite the opposite actually. But to get that out of Unity you need some good deal of Unity expertise, a team that is well versed in the many "gotchas" of Unity and how to work around them, to pull it off.

    For example, the team behind Ori And The Will Of The Wisps has extensive Unity experience. They wrote their own SRP, heavily modified the engine source code (being funded by MS definitely helps paying for that), and wrote a lot of custom tools. Very few would be able to pull off something that looks and moves like that on the Switch at 60fps with any engine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  29. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Yes, they can, and the game will probably run at half or quarter speed of original, with a lot of lod popping. Dark souls is not exactly special from technical standpoint, what makes it great is visuals and artwork. And even in DS3 artwork is not exactly supremely detailed.

    It also won't be a "kit", because the game, as far as I can tell, is not built on principles of modularity. It is one big polygonal soup.

    There's a program called VRChat where people occasionally pirate entire levels from game to turn them into backgrounds, and it is running on unity. There are ripped Dark Souls characters in there, and occasionl maps, though those are usually from DS2 or DS1.So, yeah, it should be doable, as long as you don't mind writing your own network stack, likely using 3rd party lightmap solution and so on.

    Speaking of VRChat, somebody apparently ripped entire Silent Hill 2 map there, it got turned into something like a 130 megabyte download. The whole town, with interiors and all. This was bleeding edge visuals one day.
     
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