Search Unity

Bug XR Plugin Management - Built In Deferred + Single Pass no longer a option?

Discussion in 'VR' started by LVermeulen, Jun 25, 2021.

  1. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    On switching to the XR Plugin Management from old XR Settings - there is no 'Single Pass' and only 'Single Pass Instanced'. But 'Single Pass Instance' does not work with the Deferred renderer with the built in pipeline

    Is the only option then to use MultiPass with Deferred, and being around 20%-30% slower than old XR Settings?
     
    LVermeulen, Jun 25, 2021
    #1

  2. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    I can understand Deferred shouldn't be used for mobile VR/AR headsets - but for a PC VR game using Deferred this change completely breaks upgrading Unity versions
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 1, 2021
    #2

  3. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    Which XR plugin are you using, Oculus, WinMR, OpenXR, etc?
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 1, 2021
    #3

  4. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    SteamVR and Oculus. Haven't tried OpenXR yet
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 1, 2021
    #4

  5. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    For SteamVR/OpenVR you will need to talk with Valve as it is supported by them. For the Oculus XR plugin there should be an option in the oculus settings for single pass I believe.
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 1, 2021
    #5

  6. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    There being only Single Pass Instanced, and not working with Deferred, is the case for all XR plugins with the XR management system
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 2, 2021
    #6

  7. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 2, 2021
    #7

  8. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    Yeah like I mentioned above Multipass is then the only option for Deferred - so then switching to this new XR Plugin management results in draw performance being 30% slower than old XR settings
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 2, 2021
    #8

  9. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you were saying there was only one option. I dont know why built-in deferred single-pass is not working with XR. I know HDRP is supported on XR but that probably doesnt help you. I will ask around to see if there is a known issue with built-in deferred/XR/single-pass.
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 2, 2021
    #9
    rasto61 likes this.

  10. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    I started an internal discussion before the long weekend and it looks like built-in deferred Single-Pass should be working. If it is not working the best bet is to submit a bug using `Help -> Report a bug` and include a sample project and a description of what is not working. This way the graphics team can look into it.
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 6, 2021
    #10

  11. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    On here: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/SinglePassInstancing.html - it mentions "Unity doesn’t support Single Pass Stereo Instancing in the Legacy Render Pipeline when using Deferred Rendering" (and again - we can't use non-instanced anymore with this new plugin management)

    I can submit a report though - what happens is the headset just shows complete white/dark
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 6, 2021
    #11

  12. rasto61

    rasto61

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    352
    And there probably are no plans to support Single-Pass (non instanced), right?
     
    rasto61, Jul 6, 2021
    #12

  13. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    If BuiltIn + SinglePass + Deferred is no longer possible - we didn't get any notice of that, and it impacts any released/indev VR games massively (a 30% performance hit for upgrading). The options are to either take the massive performance hit, switch rendering path to Forward, or switch render pipelines from Built In - all terrible

    The note that was added to that page about Deferred+SinglePassInstanced not working wasn't even there November of last year https://web.archive.org/web/20201101142946/https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/SinglePassInstancing.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
    LVermeulen, Jul 7, 2021
    #13

  14. rasto61

    rasto61

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    352
    Can you please confirm with the team, which version is correct? Either the footnote in the link above, (which says single pass instanced + deferred shouldnt work) or that single pass instanced + deferred should be supported (and if it doesnt, its probably a bug)
     
    rasto61, Jul 12, 2021
    #14

  15. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    This is what I was told internally

    "We stopped supporting single-pass (double-wide) in XR SDK. We also don't really encourage using deferred for VR. They should be using forward + single-pass instancing on PC and forward + multiview on Quest"
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 12, 2021
    #15

  16. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    So current VR projects that used BuiltIn+Deferred just should not update to Unity 2019/2020? There is no possibility of this changing? We had no indication that this wouldn't be supported in the future
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 12, 2021
    #16
    ckriger likes this.

  17. the_real_apoxol

    the_real_apoxol

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2020
    Posts:
    467
    That is all the information I have at this time. You can submit a bug through `Help -> Report a bug` if you want to bring more attention to the issue.
     
    the_real_apoxol, Jul 12, 2021
    #17

  18. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    Here are a few popular Unity VR PC games that I know use Deferred + Built in
    - Township Tale
    - NeosVR
    - Low FI

    It was never not recommended - just only for mobile
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
    LVermeulen, Jul 14, 2021
    #18

  19. rasto61

    rasto61

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Posts:
    352
    Yes, it was never not recommended, but they always recommended forward, mostly due to msaa. Imo deferred with taa is better too, and would hope to use deferred.
    But apoxol was only relaying what he was told.
    Can you submit a bug report please, so we see what they do?
     
    rasto61, Jul 15, 2021
    #19

  20. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    Submitted a bug report, but it got closed by them as it wasn't considered a bug.
    I guess the new version breaking VR projects using Deferred is not a bug - despite nothing actually being deprecated.

    They haven't deprecated Built In - but are not going to fix this apparently. Yet another example of their SRP switch disaster
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    LVermeulen, Jul 20, 2021
    #20
    ckriger likes this.

  21. LVermeulen

    LVermeulen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Posts:
    40
    I understand there might be technical reasons why single pass Instanced + Deferred is not possible. But not including single pass non-instanced was a decision that Unity made - breaking all VR deferred projects without any notice.

    Deferred / built in were not deprecated - we had no indication that would not be supported in the future
     
    LVermeulen, Jul 20, 2021
    #21
    ckriger likes this.

  22. kro11

    kro11

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2019
    Posts:
    105
    Have the same issue, using VFX assets that don't work with Single Pass Instanced (doesn't work properly) and Multi Pass (Errors like "A multisampled texture being bound to a non-multisampled sampler. Disabling in order to avoid undefined behavior. Please use Texture2DMS in the shader.").
     
    kro11, Aug 2, 2021
    #22

  23. unisip

    unisip

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Posts:
    340
    Bumping this. I have a game that works fine in VR using legacy deferred / single pass in Unity 2019.4.18. When I update this to Unity 2019.4.31, the rendering is broken. I am using legacy XR support. It is not clear why this rendering pass is now broken...
     
    unisip, Oct 25, 2021
    #23
    arufolo-wellovate likes this.

  24. jjxtra

    jjxtra

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Posts:
    1,464
    Why is deferred + single pass instanced not an option? Some crazy technical reason or just too many options to support?
     
    jjxtra, Dec 2, 2021
    #24
    arufolo-wellovate and ckriger like this.

  25. hONgzA

    hONgzA

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Posts:
    3
    Do you realize how restrictive that is and how much it negatively affects the visuals achievable? Are you trying to make VR dev community switch to Unreal? This is frankly outrageous.
     
    hONgzA, Oct 16, 2022
    #25
    DrInternet likes this.

  26. DrInternet

    DrInternet

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Posts:
    106
    Two years later and still not fixed. They don't really give a frak about VR, do they?
     
    DrInternet, Jun 16, 2023
    #26