Writing a Book on Game Developing - Need critical feedback on Unity

Hello everyone

I am a designer, writer by profession and a hard core gamer.

Currently I am busy making a platform game in Flash and writing a book on game development for newbies.

The book portrays the whole spectrum of gaming, from genres, types, platforms to hardware and software used for game creation.

I was researching game engines and I came to unity.

I have downloaded the free version and found that, though the learning curve is high for unity( I thought I was learning a new 3D MAX again), the resources and tutorials look awesome and by looking at the some of the previous threads I do believe that even the support here in the forums will be great too.

I started working on the 3rd person platformer tutorial and found it very easy even for a complete newbie but maybe because all the assets were provided in the tutorial and there was nothing to do from scratch.

So I have few questions ( I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, so admins can move the post if required)

1) Can we make pure 2d side scrolling/platformers in Unity?

I have seen the show reel and it has few 2d games like the pirate one where ninja is fighting and killing pirates and the zombieville USA, they looked 2d to me.


2) How easy it is to create a game from scratch?

say for example, if we use the 3rd person platformer game tutorial, reuse the scripts(if allowed) and change the design assets like platforms, hero etc, story line, can it be done without much hassle?

3) How user friendly is Unity for Non - Programmers?

I am a designer and not really a programmer. I am currently using action script in flash to create a game, which is a bit similar to java script. I have no knowledge of c# or other languages. How difficult it will be for me to make games?

Yes programming can be learned but can a designer make even a simple game without much coding?

I have tried other game engines like Torque 2d and Torque X, even though torque has its own platformer kit, its rigged with bugs and support is almost negligible with resources outdated. Plus it requires high end graphic cards and torque script, C#. Doesn't run on my presario 3000 notebook, while I am amazed to find Unity working like a charm.

I know unity has a free version but if it can be managed without much coding just by learning through manual documents and tutorials, I might buy the pro version and that will really make the review interesting in my book, so even the readers might get interested in buying it. Yes 1500 $ is a lot for an Indie but why not if its worth it.

4) For Iphone, Xbox, Wii and and Android, do we need to install other apps like Visual Studio c#, XNA, (I know we need the STK for Android)?

Installing a hell lot of such apps for torque X was one of the major reasons I am looking for another good engine right now. Even on an upgraded PC, installing Visual c#, XNA and then the Torque engines and Kits, beats the S*** out of me. Took me one and half day to install and update everything and still it didn't work. Too complicated process for a newbie.

5) Animation Assets use 3d files or sprites?

While reading the tutorials and Wiki, I realized particle effects uses 2d sprites for animation.

Can we do the same for Character animations? For example for a 2d side scroller, I will just need to animate in flash, export image sequence and create a sprite map in Photoshop for the left and right movement and other motions and import in Unity?

For 3d animation which format do we require to export from 3d software? I have not gone through the manual yet.

6 ) Which 3d Software is the most compatible with Unity? if 3d assets are used instead of sprites

Ya everyone learns Maya and Max in institutes but they are very very expensive, a person who wishes to start an Indie game company, will probably go for cheaper versions like XSI or Cinema 4d, Strata 3D, Zbrush for modeling or free like Blender.

Please rate these software or more, according to their compatibility.

7) Does it support Sony PS3 and PSP?

Yes PS requires license to be bought first but does Unity support it?

8) Are there tutorials for the final compilation of the game project, cheat codes, optimization etc ?


9) What are the minimum and optimum hardware/software requirements for running Unity?

For some reason I just cannot find it on main site. Maybe its in the manual but it should be on the site too.

10) On average how long it takes to learn using Unity (the interface for a newbie and coding for an experienced programmer)


All responses are welcome and the best ones will be put as a feedback in my book. I am not asking these questions just for the book, but also because I am a game developer myself and Unity has really caught my eyes.

N.B. - Though admins and Unity developers can answer these questions too, but I am looking for an unbiased review from the Unity users.

Thanks a lot

Wicked Sunny

www.wickedsunny.com
www.publishinggurus.com
www.wickedrecipes.com

 

1) A lot of things are possible, they all depend on the skill, genius and knowledge of the programmer. I don't have any experience at the moment about 2D Platform game, but I wouldn't say it is impossible.

2) Yes and no, just be aware of the cargo cult programming !

3) I'm not a programmer, but a designer. It doesn't forbid me of having a great sense of logic and algorithm. I am also able to overlook and remember any aspect of my code (the most part), so I can tell who do what and when and how. Having those qualities helps a lot, but the most important are motivation and concentration (the former allows you to go on, the latter allows you to be the most efficient).

10) The interface is pretty simple, it can easily take one day to one month to learn it (I would say one week, for safety).
About the coding, it rather depends on your needs. You're not going to learn all the physics stuff if you plan to do a Tetris.

 

Ya Obviously Akilae, understanding the code is a must. Right now I am creating a game in flash, without understanding how the code works, I will land up nowhere.

Oh no if I wanna learn the engine, I am not going to make a Tetris but bigger games. That is for sure

Thanks for the input. Waiting for more feedback now.

 

1) 2D games are technically done with 3D objects, even if those objects are just flat quads. There is no bitmap 2D engine.
2) Depends...a simple game is pretty easy, a complicated game is hard.
3) You need to learn to program if you're going to do anything aside from architectural walkthroughs where you drop in the first-person prefab. With most games you will spend far more time in your code editor than anything else, aside from the time spent doing 3D modeling and/or textures.
4) Unity iPhone needs XCode.
5) You can use 3D models or sprites.
6) Blender works fine.
7) It will support PS3. PSP is too limited to handle Unity.
8) Most of that is in the docs.
9) http://unity3d.com/unity/system-requirements.html
10) Hard to say; maybe a few months to become comfortable with Unity, though learning all there is to know would take longer.

--Eric

 

Thank You Eric, that is helpful

If everything is in 3d quads, than the environment can be imported as .obj formats? What about 3d animations, I mean which format?

I am already very comfortable with unity, though remembering everything will take time, but once I finish my game in flash, I will be jumping right into Unity.

 

not trying to sound mean, but what about you read the manual first? all your questions are answered there.
You want to write a book about that topic and in my opinion you should read about it first. Otherwise you could ask Eric or other people with the knowledge to write the book for you.

 

Well Schlump

Not trying to be mean maybe you should read the thread properly first.

I am not writing a book on Unity( its on game development), and unity is just a part of the game engines chapter in the book ( not a guide on how to use Unity)

Obviously I will read the manual once I start learning it, but currently I am trying to gain feedback from the Unity users, because they are the best judge of the software, while it will take me months to understand how much worth the software is (after as you meant - reading and trying).

 

gain feedback would be:

3) How user friendly is Unity for Non - Programmers?
What do you like using Unity and why?

just asking for stuff that is listed in the manual and has nothing to do with feedback about unity:
1) Can we make pure 2d side scrolling/platformers in Unity?
2) How easy it is to create a game from scratch?
4) For Iphone, Xbox, Wii and and Android, do we need to install other apps like Visual Studio c#, XNA, (I know we need the STK for Android)?
5) Animation Assets use 3d files or sprites?
Can we do the same for Character animations? For example for a 2d side scroller, I will just need to animate in flash, export image sequence and create a sprite map in Photoshop for the left and right movement and other motions and import in Unity?
6 ) Which 3d Software is the most compatible with Unity? if 3d assets are used instead of sprites
7) Does it support Sony PS3 and PSP?
8) Are there tutorials for the final compilation of the game project, cheat codes, optimization etc ?
9) What are the minimum and optimum hardware/software requirements for running Unity?
10) On average how long it takes to learn using Unity (the interface for a newbie and coding for an experienced programmer)

Because of this it doesn't feel like anything about getting feedback, it just seems "lazy-to-read".

 

Brilliant Schlump

Maybe you can answer your own 2 questions for me.

How user friendly is Unity for Non - Programmers?
What do you like using Unity and why?

The question set I asked was what came in my mind while I was trying to test Unity on my laptop with the tutorial. Those are kinds of feedback I require for my book.

Instead of putting your energy in trying to make a new comer on these forums look like a 'lazy bird' why cant you spend half of that energy in answering the questions, if you know about them?.

 

do i write a book?
and i am not able to answer your questions about unity. I read the tutorials, i am learning C# atm (pretty dull if you do it on your own, but i want to understand my game)
for non-programmer unity is like a game maker. you can use the prefabs, the ressources and smash something together that some people may call a game.
Unity is an engine and if you want to make your own game you need to know programming, but the community and the dev team try to make it very easy for someone like me (3d artist) to start with game development.

I hope you have your answers now and
A: my name is "Schlumpfsack"
B: get your nose down and stop typing like an arrogant ........
C: if you are not able to find a thead-title that fits the content of your thread...the book will not be about game development...maybe about pottery.

and about the "lazy bird" like i said: everything is in the manual you asked. it is like i am going to ask someone what Mona Lisa looks like because i don't want to turn my head and have a look myself.

 

Well Schlumpfsack

A: Who are you to tell me what I have to put down or not?
B: Its you who is actually a newbie just like me here who cannot answer my questions but try your best to create a scene.
C: I don't think you can even define Arrogance.
D: Pottery: Nice idea for a game like farm ville, will need more introspection though.

Thank you for your time and effort, now S.T.F.U and get off this thread and let good people who have actually used Unity, answer my questions. People like you on forums scare away the good people who wish to help others.

 

good one, insulting others and talking about "good people" while one of your questions was about Unity and "non-programmer" and i answered it for you. Now everyone can take you serious.

 

Do you think me or anybody will give a S*** to a person like you who has no job in life but to fight with people on forums and that also for no reason?

is there some ignore button or block button in these forums, so that I can really wait for some REAL Unity users to answer my first 10 questions?

I really appreciate the feedback from Eric and Akalie.

 

now you mad ?
grow up and i really don't understand why you now insult people that are unemployed^^

btw i am a REAL Unity user

 

> 1) Can we make pure 2d side scrolling/platformers in Unity?

You make 2D games using 3D objects. To the end user, it can look like a 2D platformer.

> 2) How easy it is to create a game from scratch?

Well, obviously, it can range from pretty easy to very hard, depending on what you're making!

> 3) How user friendly is Unity for Non - Programmers?

The interface is user friendly, and there are a variety of sample scripts out there, but if you want novel behavior, you're going to have to put on your programmer hat and write code or buy it from somebody else.

> 10) On average how long it takes to learn using Unity (the interface for a newbie and coding for an experienced programmer)

For me, I got "something" working the first day and I felt comfortable within a week. In 2-3 weeks of dabbling with it I've implemented physics (catapults), particle systems (flamethrowers), camera/character controllers (first-person, third-person, 2d, drag&drop), enemy AI, bullets, GUI menus, health bars, ammo bars, target selection, vectors quaternions, etc. I'm sure you could spend months or years mastering the best practices and details of the API, but if you're a good programmer, starting is a breeze.

This is in contrast to Torque3D. I ran screaming from that one. Not because it was hard, but because it was not so well documented, didn't have so many samples or tutorials, and had less active user forums.

 

Ostagar

Thanks for the reply.

Taking about game type - say if we have to make a platformer like Mario? Will it be easy or very time consuming?

Regarding buying scripts - are there any special codes and packs available for Unity, just like for Torque? Maybe few of us should come up and create packages to sell. This will really help those newbies who are not versed with programming or designing. Being a designer I can help with the 3d animation and special effects packs.

Yes the Torque software is great, but the support horrible. Negligible documentation, forums private, which makes new users fall for the buying trap and later just run away from it because there is no way we can learn Torque without help. Exactly opposite to what I see here on Unity.

 

Here you can find prefabs you can use in unity. indie and commercial licence.

http://www.gameprefabs.com/

 

Making a very basic 2D platform game in Unity should be fairly straightforward. Heck, there's even a tutorial for that on the Unity site. At the same time, I strongly suspect you could find a specialized 2D game engine that would make the task simpler. And regarding the Super Mario Bros example, I imagine it would be no small feat to precisely capture its retro look and feel.

No shortage, unless you're looking for something in particular, in which case it's guaranteed not to exist!

 

Possibly.... (Also this.)

Not at all. You're thinking of movietextures, which you wouldn't want to use for sprites.

--Eric

 

Thank You Eric, Winning Guy and Ostagar. That answers the lot.

Now I have one more specific question

As we have to use the fbx fomat for 3d.

For example I created a a 2d running animation in flash, exported as image sequence with transparency.

Now I apply each image of this sequence as a texture on a 3d plane and export as fbx format with alpha transparency for Unity.

Will that work? Or Do I need to apply the image texture within Unity itself?

 

You would need to save it as an series of textures (one texture for each frame) and use that as an array of textures in Unity (see here). The other possibility is to make a texture atlas (all frames combined into one large texture) and animate the offset (see here).

--Eric

 

Thanks Eric

That really helps.

 

1) Can we make pure 2d side scrolling/platformers in Unity?

http://unity3d.com/support/resources/tutorials/2d-gameplay-tutorial


2) How easy it is to create a game from scratch?

say for example, if we use the 3rd person platformer game tutorial, reuse the scripts(if allowed) and change the design assets like platforms, hero etc, story line, can it be done without much hassle?

If you consider making your own assets not much hassle . There are a ton of scripts and items out there for use. I think there have been maybe 2 or 3 things that I haven't found available in some form with a little searching. So if assets are no issue for you then Unity won't be either.

3) How user friendly is Unity for Non - Programmers?

Very. I use Unity in my Intro to Programming classes. I teach them some JavaScript first and then we use Unity and UnityScript. Game programming doesn't get much easier, especially for designers who probably have some web page creation in their background. They've seen JS at some point. My students can walk through almost any JS based tutorial on the site in a few weeks.



4) For Iphone, Xbox, Wii and and Android, do we need to install other apps like Visual Studio c#, XNA, (I know we need the STK for Android)?

No idea

5) Animation Assets use 3d files or sprites?

Do a search for a tutorial on building a game like Evac City (can't remember who made it). They use sprite maps for their top down shooter.


6 ) Which 3d Software is the most compatible with Unity? if 3d assets are used instead of sprites

http://unity3d.com/unity/editor/importing

I use Blender. I hate the interface (2.5 has made it a bit better) but it is free and can do an amazing amount of stuff including compositing for making movies. I just couldn't bring myself to spend at a minimum a couple of hundred bucks for a program with Blender sitting out there. Although after watching the Modo/Unity tuts in this forum I am considering picking up Modo too.



8) Are there tutorials for the final compilation of the game project, cheat codes, optimization etc ?

I've seen tuts on optimization not sure about the cheat codes as I have never looked.


9) What are the minimum and optimum hardware/software requirements for running Unity?

That depends on your game. Unity has the ability to run at very low levels and also can require high end machines if you add a lot of eye candy or other machine taxing items. You just need to test your game and determine this for yourself.

10) On average how long it takes to learn using Unity (the interface for a newbie and coding for an experienced programmer)

A few weeks to get up and running but it could take years to really learn all the little ins and outs of the system. Fortunately, you don't really need to, with the forum and script reference and other resources, you can pretty much accomplish anything you want with a little research and some elbow grease.

 

Thanks Kalmak

This really helps, especially as my book is geared towards non programmers and designers.

 

Is Modo free like Blender? Well we can at least get the evaluation one maybe.

 

Modo is around $1000 US: http://www.luxology.com/modo/ which is why i have held off on buying it. But I have always liked the feel of the software and the tutorials are making me think that its work flow is better than the one I am currently using. Just a personal choice though so you might want to play with it for a bit to see if you like it.

 

Hello friends

I just completed the major graphics of my 2d cum 3d game in flash. I will be shifting this into unity later.

http://publishinggurus.com/pgs-platformer-game-stage-b-graphics/

Thanks to all those who helped me with their replies.

I am posting a new request thread for hardware regarding unity and 3d applications.

Please do help me out with that too.