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Would you play Escape from Tarkov with Low Poly or Cartoon Graphics?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by shanepadgett, Jul 27, 2020.

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Would you play a hyper realistic game like EFT if it were rendered in the style of BotW or Low Poly?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    81.8%
  3. Cartoon (BotW) Only

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Low Poly Only

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. shanepadgett

    shanepadgett

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    I've been toying around with some mechanics in the spare time using a Low Poly rendering technique with good quality lighting. I've been fascinated by games like EFT and Receiver so I just wanted to poll and see if other people seem interested in this idea as well.
     
  2. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    I wouldn't play regardless of the graphics because I'm not interested in the game (Tarkov), but I imagine that's not an answer you're looking for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  3. jackmememe

    jackmememe

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    Would it be exactly like Escape from Tarkov? I just play it, why play the same game with other graphics?
    It is similar to Escape from Tarkov? I have no problem with a good looking low poly game, a ugly low poly game will make me want to play Escape from Tarkov instead.
     
    angrypenguin likes this.
  4. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    Probably not, but someone like me in his early 40's is usually not the target audience for cartoon or low poly games. Problem I see though is EFT is extremely unforgiving, and isn't really for the the same audience you'd expect cartoon or low poly games to target.

    But that isn't to say you can't make it work.
     
  5. MDADigital

    MDADigital

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    In my opinion realistic shooters goes with realistic graphics. Casual shooters goes with low poly/toony gfx
     
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  6. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    you are asking the wrong audience, and i think the question shouldn't be asked this way anyhow. I think you have to make a demo or some kind of marketing material, deliver to your target audience, and measure response

    I think the question to ask is, "does my audience want to believe in the fantasy and get immersed in it?" and then, "how much realism is required to keep them believing in the fantasy?"


    i dont know if its possible, but if you could find demographics for different shooters that would probably answer a lot. Who is playing COD, who is playing Fortnite, who is playing Sniper Elite, who is playing EFT, who plays both, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  7. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    Have a look at the animations, sound effects, enemy behaviour etc of BoTW and ask yourself if realistic assets would fit in their place. Graphics is not the only thing that makes up a style.
     
  8. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Never played the game in the first place.

    (opinion)
    However, realistic graphics in a game is not a plus, as realistic visuals makes it look like every other realistic visual game on the market - meaning samey and largely bland. So rather than an attractive feature, it is a reason to avoid it. At least for me. So stylized low poly is preferable to realism.

    However, that's my opinion, and not the most popular one.
     
  9. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    The nowadays praised "low poly style" is terrible for FPS and any up-close action in general. And if you try to make a "realistic" graphics game, you will be sitting there for a couple of years until you get there unless you have a properly sized team or you have the money to pay for your assets.

    I personally don't get *khm* euphoria because of the hyper-realistic graphics. Yeah, it's interesting for 5 minutes, then the game-play rules.
    On the other hand I get ticks from the aforementioned "low poly style" too. Because most games which uses them don't modify them at all. Just like the hyper-realistic look, this "stylized low poly style" also uninteresting.

    Whatever you decide make sure that
    - your style is deliberate and not random
    - your style is for your game and not "oh, I got these from the last sale on the Asset store, good enough"
    - if you use premade assets, MODIFY them both structurally and visually
    - find the style for your game, theme, feeling, mood, etc

    With that said, I just watched people playing EFT and it wasn't that great at certain points, IDK if it was the players hardware or what, but it was ugly sometimes. So I'm not impressed so far. The problem is, I don't like MMOs. EFT is one. I don't like looter-shooters. EFT is one of them. I don't like this type of PvP. Well... EFT. (I liked the old style CoD MP, but unfortunately that is in the past too, the newer MPs are abysmally lame)

    But if you decide on some stylized thing, keep in mind that the play style like EFT has, the unforgiving nature and the blood and the constant danger, the look of the game should support these (if that is your goal), so the rusty, brown-dark colored, aged stuff is better than the warm-colors, the stylized low-poly with lack of details. You can't show the aging and rusting and abandonment properly. If you find a way though... now that would be something.

    Most important takeaway: whatever you decide, that is the starting point of your art style, not the goal.
     
  10. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I think some elaboration might be in order.

    Basically, "realistic graphics" often means "lack of style". A good example of that is pubg, which is exceptionally bland looking. Because the style is expensive and is constrained by "it has to look real", it becomes non-expressive. Also, over time it got annoying. I recall seeing grass in games all the way in 2000s, so grass fields won't get me excited. It also makes game look too similar ot each other, to the point where sections of red dead redemption were resembling witcher (I mean, there's a forest, a horse... not much of a difference).

    Low polygonal style allows designer/artist to focus on important part of their presentation only. This can result in games like Inside, or Ashen, or even Another World, where there's just enough geometry to show what this is all about.

    However, this can too be lazily done. An example of "lazy low poly" is minecraft styled box characters which are often non-stylized.

    An alternative to low poly is cartoon, by the way.
     
  11. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    If you want to clone something or use it as inspiration/foundation, of the two mentioned definitely pick Receiver, if you want a chance to ever finish it. Imho the lowpoly style works better with that kind of game as well.
     
  12. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    Where would you place The Outer Worlds?



    I think there's kind of a continuum (and I'm not accusing you of saying otherwise) of "realistic" to "low poly" graphics. And it seems possible for a game with a semi-realistic graphics "style" to be very "stylish" in the traditional sense.
     
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  13. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    In my opinion, as far as style goes, outer world has failed to be stylish. It invested too much into realism, as a result, iot ended up looking similar to too many other games at once. So it is 90 to 95% realistic.

    I've played it upon release, and then pretty much dropped it - I got nearly to the end of the game, and simply failed to finish it. I remember fighiting some lizards in purple grass, but the rest is a blur. Too similar to many other things I already saw. Honestly, I have easier time remembering their advertisements.
    "It's not the wurst unless its Boarst". I think?
    The most memorable character in the whole game was the dude in goggles with the flamethrower.
    upload_2020-7-28_18-25-9.png
    They did have nice 2d artwork, and did a great job with their small budget, but that's not an example of how to do things with realistic appraoch.

    A decent example of "stylish" visuals in "realistic" renderer would be "journey to the savage planet" or the latest "Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age". For a less stylyzed example, we have dark souls, which is using largely realistic visuals, but has very memorable fantastic landscapes.
     
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  14. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    @EternalAmbiguity

    The way I see it, the issue with realism is that it is possible to get a bad case of tunnel vision and while chasing texture fidelity, end up with non-memorable locations through and through. Because reality is bland, as you see it every day.

    In case of low poly visuals, distracting texture details are gone, and the artist/designer will be far more compelled to make something memorable with "big strokes of the brush".

    Like I said, a good example of that is Inside. It is very visually memorable.
    upload_2020-7-28_18-44-56.png
    upload_2020-7-28_18-45-7.png

    A similar example with higher fidelity is Little Nightmares.
    upload_2020-7-28_18-47-7.png
    It is also very atmospheric.
     
  15. frosted

    frosted

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    "escape from tarkov" is deeply rooted in realism. A lot of the effort went into creating a feeling of reality, from the visuals to the audio, to the equipment, etc.

    Can you make a low poly FPS, sure. Can you make a loot based low poly FPS, sure. Can you make a low poly tarkov? No.
     
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  16. unitedone3D

    unitedone3D

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    Dear Mr. Padgett, Just a 2 cents.

    Making a game the size/scope/polish of EFT will be extremely hard (if solo dev) because I believe this was made by larger indie team; but I don't think we should knock it down so quickly; much like DUSK/Amid Evil/Ion of Fury....EFT is of the few FPS (first person shooters), Actually made, in Unity. We see/hear a whole lot of rogue/pixel games from Unity but not many quality FPS's made with it. It is why I look up to it as a great example of what is possible with the engine. EFT is a highly/hyper-real/istic game that is all about focusing on survival/realism...that may not be the cup of everyone. People may that as too realistic, understyled/stylized, 'too real'...that it is drab/boring (copy to like reality). Stylization is why cartoon games work so well (and they extinguish the uncanny valley) but of course, it depends on your goals; do want to reach FPS players (hardcore ones, like on PC); most of them play 'hardcore' FPSs which oftenly are 'hyper realistic' and less cartoonish. Most of these FPS games are modern 'war/field-type FPS' (Battlefield, Medal of Honor, COD..)...like EFT a bit. Though EFT makes me think more of S.T.A.L.K.E.R./call of prypiat a great Russian Tchernobyl FPS game (EFT and Metro Exodus are highly inspired from this game).
    All of them have a recurrent theme of 'hyper realism/Survival realism/survival horror'...limited resources/ammo...etc. Real guns (names/brands...real bullet/ballistics...real health point/loss of blood incapaciting you..need to eat...) a bit like Deux EX games where you micro-manage everything of your player - in a FPS.

    I would say to answer your question, low poly style could make it work; but not so low; EFT's 3d models are high poly detail, and it is what sells the hyper real look; and, because of the realism of the game; it lends not well to use cartoons/cartoonish style...you can make it cartoon like but are you trying to make a real game...because if wanting to make like EFT - it means trying to make a 'real-like/hypereal' like game...and cartoonization takes you away from realism.

    But,
    Low Poly is a possible solution; but not too low that everything looks PS1/N64 3d models...at min. aim ps2 chunky models.. (in the crude/chunky 2000-10,000 polys/tris; 5,000 avg; under 2000 is starting to be real boxy crunchy; but for a cartoon look it works); nowawadays with PBR shaders you can make 'low poly' models look Fantastic..as long as the texture, itself, is good/realistic...That's another thing, you may have highres models...but if texturing is cartoonish...you reduce the 'realistic' look no matter how much detail in the 3d model in terms of poly count. That is more for stylization/'pseudo real' feel...not Totally Real...thus, a bit cartoonish/styled.
    But if wanting like EFT...low poly models would be ok (down to a certain min. number of polys/decimated; we have to be able 'to read the shape' of the model...weapons demand lots of polys to make all those little details on them....or else, they look like 'cartoonized guns/fake/un-real' weapons) and with good textures you come up with something decent. The lacking poly in models will be offset by great shader/PBR/texturing/lighting of them under different lighting condition...Lighting can also make a game look cartoony (if rudimentary lighting that lacks bouncing or shadows...etc); as others mentions is the question of taste..to each their own. Some love realistic EFT styled games...som think are bland (with as said...brown/dull muddy texture palette...realistic...but not interesting for some/boring looking); if you make a very colorful palette/filter/LUTs it can look very popping and increase realism..but if too much it can come out almost cartoonish coloring/clown circus coloring a bit...it's why EFT I think went with a more 'neutral' color palette (that is more real and not so overstylized/obvious).

    I guess with the low poly style; you have to make sure to not 'go too low'...to retain enough geometrical/surface geomtry detail...by making sure that you use triangular 'faces' instead of squares (of 2 faces)/Quads, triangular face models capture detail better at lower face/vertice count (simply because a face is half of a poly/quad). It is how you can make lower poly models, by using triangular faces 'spread randomly' on your model (it is called 'polygon budgetisation...you want to prioritize 'polygons' in places 'of interest' where there is a 'need' for more detail/accuracy..like say the tip of a gun...needs detail...while the cannon less so; or the face of human 3d model...needs more poly (for eyes, mouth...details)..than the chest)...so reordering the polys can make low poly models look good as long as you put that low poly-budget at the right places that need detail on the model.
    In general, on STeam, it seems that FPS players seek more hyperrealistic FPS; but some are open to fantasy like ones that have more cartoon/stylization...EFT is a realistic game...it depends if you aim to make a realistic-like game or a total fantasy one that has barely any reality-basing to make it.

    Just a 2 cents.

    PS: EFT suffered (I read the Steam reviews of it) with a Unity engine problem of 'scavs loading'....and hitching/hiccupping (microstutter) the game the instant the ennemies (scavs) appear in view. This means that there needs preloading/caching of assets (before levels starts) to avoid that 'popping later when loading during game playing', microstutter is present in several games made in different engines (it seems in Unity this problem has been said on reviews); the largest improvers where RAM increase, asking for more RAM as minimum req. for game to run smooth/microstutter free (for realistic FPS games, it seems now 8 GB is min...even then that may be lacking, 16-32 is better to make sure; when you start these games, you can see the GB RAM demand (in task manager) grow as the game continues; I read that Kerbal Space Program could take/rise to 10-15 GB RAM in a single play, of course, that is due to massive/planets/cosmos loading of assets). I don't think it is simply (and necessarily) 'bad optimization' of the dev on their assets/code/memory profiling...etc; sometimes, it really requires this much memory for such huge games because the assets themeselves are memory hungry (2-4K textures, models with very high polys, 5 million polys per scene (at any given time); though thankfully DOTS/ETS solves some of this and is made for these bigger FPS games).
    There have Mods that have been made in the past on HL 1, and they were Quite real...I remember one was called FPS weapons...or something, with firearms....it was ultra realistic...all the weapons and ballistics..but the models and everything very low res....so it can work. As long as you stay not too low and not too cartoonish/aim realistic texture/lighting. One more thing, if you believe it's possible, (almost) anything is possible, try it (it's why I tell people...try, who know it might work (if you have time on your hands and want to just be sure (since getting conflicting signals/opinions)); even if everyon said the contrary).
     
  17. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I think it is arguable whether a game rooted in realism actually needs photorealistic rendering.
     
  18. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    That's for the players to vote on with their wallets. You've made it clear you prefer interesting stylizations over "realism" (rather cinema-inspired pseudo-realism, because very very few games go for actual bland realism), but there are many that are put off by toony or lowpoly styles in general, and for realistic shooters I'd count mystelf among them.

    Although I do make one additional distinction: form follows function, and in games where the realism of the visuals gets in the way of gameplay, like it does with Insurgency Sandstorm, I definitely prefere a more functional but less realistic last-gen source-engine take on realism like they had in the previous Insurgency. The visual readability of those "realistic" shooters has become so bad, that people started making meme videos about them, where they just hide in plain sight on a pile of rubble in Battlefield etc.. So I'd say even though I like the "cinematic realism" as a style, it definitely has gone too far in some games and I'd classify it as bad design in those cases.
     
  19. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    To be honest, I liked the first three CoD-era graphics more than the modern things. And I know, it was only because that was what they could rinse out of the hardware, but still, it was "realistic" but also not bland.
    It is obviously personal preference. I also can't imagine myself playing FPS with the above mentioned, nowadays popular stylized low-poly abomination.
     
  20. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Regardless of the choice made by developers, there will be players voting for it.
    So it is more of a question which group the developer would be willing to cater to.

    In case of Tarkov, screenshots and videos remind me too much of FEAR games and Crysis games. Meaning it is samey.

    Either way, there's more than one way to make it realistic, I think. You could go for high detail textures, OR you could go for scale, for example, while dialing details down.

    There's an interesting visual style used, for example, by "This is The Police" or "Orwell". This is "realistic" but not "high level of detail".

    State of Mind used it too, but didn't manage to nail it.
     
  21. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    How about SuperHot...
     
  22. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    This is actually my favorite type of graphics for most games, where the detail is realistic but the design is not. It doesn't look like anything that would actually exist, and the forms and colors are more about expressiveness than functionality. But it's still not missing anything in terms of material realism.

    In my opinion, the graphics of Star Citizen suffers from a lack of the kind of expressiveness that the Outer Worlds has. It simply doesn't look like it has been designed as much for an experience of the audience, but rather to follow a functional rule set.

    So both of them are realistic, but one is far more artistic than the other. The way I see it, that artistic element is what is fundamental in a game, whereas the level of detail not necessarily that important.

    That's why I really admire Halo's art, because they have really nailed down distinctive shapes and colors, and often left out detail in a way that actually clarifies the symbolism.
     
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  23. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    That was interesting both presentation and gameplay-wise. For 5 minutes. Than it became extremely boring because of both. Although it was a nice try to blend FPS with some simple puzzles and not on the "find the three buttons to open the door"-kind of way. We need more like those, who are ready to experiment. I don't regret that I paid for it.

    Edit:
    Actually, besides the CoDs, I liked the three Bioshocks' style as well. Plus one much more caricaturistic the We Happy Few (the gameplay was bad and riddled with bugs, but the art-style was great).
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  24. shanepadgett

    shanepadgett

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    Since I saw some comments regarding the scope of the project I will just say this. I do not intend to recreate Tarkov, that would be impossible. I've just been playing around with a few mechanics from the two games I mentioned and throwing in my own to expand on them. I was leaning towards a more "Unturned" size of game. I can do low-poly modelling and animation myself, but something high fidelity like Tarkov is just out of the question unfortunately.
     
  25. frosted

    frosted

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    My point is that a major part of the draw for Tarkov is the gritty survival fantasy. It's an almost post apocalyptic scavenger FPS.

    You can borrow mechanics and the like and respin them, but we're discussing tarkov right now because it's popular and the theme is a huge part of the draw.
     
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