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Would game like EvE online work in 2D?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wrymnn, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Do you think game like EvE online or X series would be fun in 2D?
    I know there is Starsector, but it doesn`t have the scope of open world. VoidExpanse is also top down, but uses 3D models, instead of sprites.

    In 2D you can only zoom in and out but in 3D you can see the mode, you can see the scale of planet, pan camera around, see the planetary rings etc.

    Would it be possible to get immersed in the world if everything is top-down 2d?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  2. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I don't see why not.
     
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  3. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Wasn't dark orbit originally 2D?

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/11/23/darkorbit-made-e2-million-from-one-item/
     
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  4. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    They will be less fun. Having less dimensions reduces number of available options when building stations/etc. Everything will be cluttered, pretty much.
     
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  5. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Havent event heard about DarkOrbit, it seems they have quite a good IAP market.
    Indeed it is 2D, and PVP oriented.

    Yes, thats what I fear. Void Expanse has managed to do it somehow interesting, but the immersion is nowhere near free 3D camera of EvE.
     
  6. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    This is very true. Without the ability to look around, most of your stuff will have to fit on the 2D screen plane with plenty of space left over and that makes it a lot more difficult to do level design.
     
  7. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Well, galaxy would be generated, since it wouldn`t be MMO, but most of the time you would be looking only at your ship and space background, which would be the biggest problem.
     
  8. Billy4184

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    It might work out ok if you put other background objects such as asteroids on a perspective camera, but overall it's going to be very difficult to get the sense of scale of Eve or X in a 2D game imo.
     
  9. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    You CAN have massive scale in 2d, the problem is that everything will remain flat, which will make some things impossible. For example, in x series you could build labyrinth-like station complexes in 3d, in 2d they'll just generate clutter.

    Speaking of "immersion"... that depends on your definition of immersion, but if "immersion" means "realism", then it won't be happening. You can have great arcade-like feel in the game, though.

    For massive 2d games check AI Wars and Distanct Worlds: Universe.
     
  10. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Yes, DW is still the best space X4 there is imo, even when Stellaris is out. But DW and AI Wars are both RTS, which means you can zoom out pretty far away from your ships, thus you have big variety in the scenery you are looking at.

    But in Eve like or X like game, you control one ship, and camera is centered on it.
    So yet again you are back to ship sprite and one background and thats your entire environment.
     
  11. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/

    Edit: Ah, never mind, it was already mentioned in the time it took me to find out how it was named.

    That made me realize how utterly saturated the space game market is. I knew exactly what game I was looking for, and yet it was super hard to find among the hundreds of other space games.
     
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  12. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Yeah, but I could say the same about race games, or RTS games in general :D And AI Wars does look very old, graphically.
     
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  13. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    My feeling is, forget it. Imo 2D works for 'toon' games where everything is wildly out of scale and the art is more suggestive than realistic - but if you're going for realism and immersion even having everything on the 2D plane is going to make it feel like something is out of whack I think.
     
  14. MV10

    MV10

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    Great. Yet another thing that is going to keep me from working on my own game...

    Edit: Oh. RTS. Nevermind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  15. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Well, if you mean realistic as Star Citizen, then no, I dont think this would by any good for 2D. But style as Distant Worlds or Galaxial, that is more for 2D style.

    Graphics like Prison Architect or RimWorld for space game.
     
  16. Billy4184

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    Fair enough, I haven't played many of those kinds of games.
     
  17. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    //opinion
    You can have highly believable 2d worlds, but when you're down to "character" scale. Meaning you'll need to have 2d character run around massive level. In this case it'll be incredibly believable. If you start moving away to "ship" scale, then illusion will start falling apart, quickly. Meaning, if you want a highly believable 2d ship, then you will probably need to implement ship's crew as characters. I think it is necessary, because crew is necessary as a reference to give an idea about how big/small the ship is, for example.
     
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  18. MV10

    MV10

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    That or some kind of storyline, like Gal Civ ... which is very hard to maintain in an open-ended Eve-style game.
     
  19. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Hmm. Maybe.

    Speaking of scale, I remember playing this on NES:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Mech



    Basically, you were controlling a mech in 2d, BUT pilot could jump out of it. And when the pilot was out of the mech, it gave you clear idea about how big the mech really is.

    Something like that could be used in 2d large scale game, I think. You could zoom from crew level to ship level, then planet level, then galactic level, and It would give you sense of scale. However, I'm not sure how one would navigate on such scale in 2d.
     
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  20. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    http://heatsig.com
     
  21. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I was thinking about side-scrolling view, (for example, metroid style). I find top-down views to be less "believable", for some reason.
     
  22. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Most spreadsheets are 2d, so yeah.
     
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  23. bluescrn

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    In 2D, it's hard to represent the large distances involved in space games.

    But even in 3D, because of those distances, you're rarely looking at another ship close up, you're usually looking at HUD indicators and text (especially in the case of EVE), with the ships your fighting just a couple of pixels in the distance
     
  24. Wrymnn

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    Yes, but you can pan around with camera, and beyond those ships is planet, which has rings. If you pan 180 there are ruins of space stations with other enemies. This is where it gets interesting. You dont always stare at one blank background as in Voice Expanse or Endless Sky.
     
  25. KnightsHouseGames

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    I know almost nothing about EvE online, but isn't it basically just 3D Multiplayer FTL?
     
  26. neginfinity

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    You could compare it to FTL, if FTL had stock markets and corporations in it. Otherwise, no. It is pretty much the opposite of FTL.
     
  27. KnightsHouseGames

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    Yeah, I did hear they have that crazy ass economy in that game.

    I just meant the space battle part
     
  28. Wrymnn

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    ;
    And player driven economy, player controlled systems, player created industry, ships, weapons and stations, huge battles where some ships have value thousands of dollars, then yeah, its the same! :D

    But I think it does not have any stocks.
     
  29. Darkcoder

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    The main problem with making a 2D version of these games is that the objects in the scene have a vast range of different scales, which can't be clearly rendered so well together. In 2D games like this I've played, large objects are usually indicated as arrows on the screen you travel to, which is really boring and immersion breaking. It also means you often get into situations where you don't know what's attacking you if they have longer range weapons. You can of course solve this by zooming out, but then you can't battle anything up close. If you impose some limitations then you can work around these issues of course, like I've seen games where the distant objects zoom in from the background, or they make everything pretty much the same size, or they make it so distant space travel only happens via a separate map screen. So just like all games, if you design it well then it can be great.
     
  30. LeftyRighty

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    it's a shame that this is so widely misunderstood, the existence of a theoretical one way exchange rate really doesn't convey anything accurately :rolleyes::(

    As for 2d space games; Rebel Galaxy was fun, everything in a 2d plane, stations, mining, etc. 2d doesn't have to be only top down.
     
  31. Murgilod

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    The ISK exchange rate is anything but theoretical.
     
  32. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Well, actually its not. You buy PLEX for real money, and that can be sold at market at roughly 800 mil, last time I played at least.

    So if Titan costs, I dont know, lets say 100 billion, that goes into real money, not counting it takes a really long to buy build one, so a lot of real player time is needed as well.
     
  33. Wrymnn

    Wrymnn

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    Yeah, 2D has problems, but it could be easier for art.

    I am really thinking about making such a space game, I believe I have knowledge for it, time certainly. But think I am not sure if this "offline" mode with limited options would be fun to play.

    The fun thing would be to simulate player corporation and faction warfare.
     
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  34. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    I think that's the big draw of EVE, and it has nothing to do with graphics. You could do a sci-fi commodity trading, diplomacy, and faction management simulator in a text interface even. Of course the massive 3D space battles make for some great screenshots.
     
  35. Arowx

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    I would say No. Because you lose the third dimension of space.

    If you limit the game to 2D why not make it limited to 2D e.g. Hovercraft or ships.
     
  36. Murgilod

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    You've never played the Escape Velocity series of games, have you?
     
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  37. Arowx

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    I have played 2D space games but IMHO without the third dimension and gravity you are not taking advantage of 'Space' as a theme.

    I can even recall a cool old school game that used a kind of isometric view and planets existed in a gravity well. So it even had basic orbital dynamics.

    My point even 2D space is not flat.
     
  38. naj223

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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  39. tiggus

    tiggus

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    http://www.perpetuum-online.com/ was the most faithful eve clone I ever played(controls, menus, skill training, mech/ship customization, everything had same feel), it was giant robots on a planet surface in 3d but you have that 2d ground axis. Looks like they just turned off the last server which is too bad, I had a fun couple years playing that game.