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Workflow Case Study - Show us your pain!

Discussion in 'Editor & General Support' started by willgoldstone, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    UPDATE: This thread has become a general 'Show us your pain' thread, and I'm fine with that, so if you have workflow issues to share, feel free to ignore the below and skip ahead.

    ---------------

    Original Post:

    Too Long Didn’t Read version:

    Show us how you do a thing on video to help us make Unity better! Interested? read on.


    Hi everyone

    As part of Product Management and UX, we are working on reviewing our workflows across the board as we build towards a) better tooling for Unity and b) future Unity editor based around our Data Oriented Tech Stack - because the latter affords much broader changes to workflow than we’ve ever been able to achieve, due to the data model and other details we’re still solidifying.

    We are looking for participants - anyone with 6 months+ experience in Unity to engage with us in think-aloud Case Studies on Unity workflow. For this we will be asking you to record a think-aloud video (see guidelines below!!) which shows us you creating a specific scenario (see pitch video below) - in this first instance, a simple hallway from a horror game, where the mood changes when the player enters.

    Video overview



    What to do
    1. Contact us to register with us as participant - email me on will@unity3d.com
    2. Download the zipped FBX model of a hallway here, import it into a new project in Unity 2018.3 or above
    3. Watch the explanation video above
    4. Record your think aloud video (see guidelines below)
    5. fill out the survey
    6. Stop recording
    7. Later - follow up with an interview if you wish.
    Survey for this study

    https://unitysoftware.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1zTkP2HTsjTLemx


    Think Aloud Guidelines

    As you record your video - let us know what you expect to see before taking an action, you reactions after taking an action, and what would have made it better. We really want to hear everything, and this process helps us and you to think about how intuitive our tools are and is generally considered a tried and tested format for think-aloud research.

    To record the video itself, please utilize a free method such as Quicktime on mac (File > New Screen recording) or OBS Studio on PC (http://obsproject.com).

    Looking forward to hearing from you, any questions, fire away.


    Will
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  2. Baste

    Baste

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    Is that missing a link on "here"?
     
  3. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Fixed oops!
     
  4. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey everyone just wanted to say thanks to those of you who have submitted entries for this study so far. We're still accepting more and responding to those that have, but we're open to further ones if you have time, feel free to get in touch, thanks!
     
  5. ohthepain

    ohthepain

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    Launch Unity
    Close Unity Hub
    Work for a a few minutes
    Unity crashes, force quit
    Launch Unity
    Close Unity Hub ...
     
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  6. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    I see you've gone a bit literal there. If you have issues / bug reports post em! happy to help.
     
  7. transat

    transat

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    @willgoldstone My biggest workflow pain is also quite literal. As expressed by myself and others on this thread...
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/asset-store-site-upgrade.669670/

    That's one of a number of threads where we are asked for our feedback and then ignored. After a while without any replies from Unity the frustration builds and the thread descends into Lord of the Flies territory. :) So it's greatly appreciated that you're looking into our workflow woes! I'd say the the link I posted above could give you an example of obvious issues that would only require minor fixes from your end. And if fixes aren't possible for some reason, then feedback about our feedback can't hurt! ;-)

    PS - although the link reads "asset store" the above thread is more about importing and updating assets in a project... which can sadly only be done through the in-editor "asset store" (which for many users means a 5+ minute wait for Unity to respond to each click/scroll, as well as silly workarounds to determine which assets in a project haven't been updated).
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  8. JohnHudeski

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    This is terrible
    I have the great fortune of possessing close to 200 animation clips in a single file
    But when I go to the animation inspector to change the clip settings my productivity suffers

    Due to the overly long clips list. I have to scroll up to select the clip then scroll down to change the settings

    Also when setting up events it is impossible to preview things like vfx or sfx
    Maybe we need a standalone window for such editing
    A la timeline (or Montage from Unreal)
    It doesn't make sense to cram everything into one scene (even the humanoid set up screen could be a separate screen)
     
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  9. xarismax

    xarismax

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    hey unity, i have an idea:

    Why don't you make ReorderableList from internal to public and have it affect every array / list in inspector.
    You have had that piece of code for 5 years, and only the few selected elites know how to use it. It is not the by default option. Therefore people who don't know gui programming are missing it, and get worse gui experience.

    If there reason it is internal, is because of performance, then i would understand your decision to keep it internal only.
     
  10. JohnHudeski

    JohnHudeski

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    The solution to a long list is a pages. Give us pages on everything.
    Even the asset brose could do with pages. I know we can use folders in that case but sometimes sub-conceptualization is not fun.


    Virtual folders in the scene hierarchy to reduce the need for empty game objects
    So items can be grouped
     
  11. vertexx

    vertexx

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    The 2017 versions and those before.. The method of simply saving a Standalone exe by pressing "build" and then naming the file was so easy. All of this stored nicely in the Project file and easily seen and new builds added.

    Now with 2018/19 I must create and name a new folder to store the build exe into!! Each and every time.
    What a waste of time and such an increase in file data!

    Not only that but actually naming the standalone build is a nasty method.
    By default it names it with the Project name and thus overwrites any new build !!
    To stop overwriting your old build you must create another new folder or rename everything inside the old folder! !!!

    I often will change things in the current Scene and rebuild to compare.
    Used to be so easy and so intuitive. Now its a PITA!!

    Can this be changed?
    Also when changing projects one is left with the old project and the editor and another complete Unity program in the background, visible and taking up space.
    Maybe..maybe someone might give some clues about why this "new" way of doing things is good for us all?? Please!
     
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  12. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Workflow can depend on many things especially having a Manual that's accurate?

    2019.1 Manual https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/PublishingBuilds.html

    "Finally press the Build
    button. You will be able to select a name and location for the game using a standard Save dialog. When you click Save, Unity builds your game pronto. It’s that simple. If you are unsure where to save your built game to, consider saving it into the projects root folder"


    This is wrong.
    You do not get an option to select a name or location.
    In 2017.xx you did.
    But no more.
    You are now asked to select a folder !!!
    Nowhere can you do as stated in your manual.

    Please fix this to be correct. Hopefully by restoring the Build settings to how they were.
     
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  13. Lurking-Ninja

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    If you feel that selecting a folder where the build should go isn't selection of location and/or writing a folder name isn't selection of "name", then hit the "Report a problem on this page" link on the bottom of the manual and report whatever is your problem with the documentation.
     
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  14. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Done
     
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  15. sonicviz

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    EvOne and joshcamas like this.
  16. sonicviz

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    Just another shout out here for the lack of performance and UX love shown for the Asset Store both in the Browser and in the Editor. Please load up an account with a decent amount of assets and try using it and you'll see what I mean. It is a major UX pain.
     
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  17. joshcamas

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    Agreed. It's already slow on a modern browser (Chrome, firefox) but inside of Unity? I avoid it as much as humanly possible.
     
  18. chrisk

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    Another feedback thread. Sigh.. It's not about the lack of feedback but Unity is just too lazy and stubborn to do anything about it. I'm sure you've gotten plenty of good feedback already. Start with fundamental thing likes missing history (mouse back/forward button) support, mouse wheels should works where scrollbar is, long list view with missing scrollbar, automatic animation preview playback option and so on. The list can go on and on.

    Well.. forget about everything I said. Just make the Editor works faster. As the project size grows, clicking on a checkbox takes few seconds, clicking on prefabs take 5 to 10 seconds to show up on Inspector, Enter to PlayMode take ~15 seconds on an empty scene and so on.
    Making two times faster will not help much. It needs to be faster by about 10 times to feel snappy. Doesn't it tell you something seriously wrong? It's getting to a point to becoming a joke.

    ps. FYI, my project size is about 60GB with ~20 popular 3rd party Assets. I'm profiling everytime I install new Asset to make sure the Asset is not causing the slow down. Yeah, I think I have one of the most powerful system. AMD 3700x, 64GB Ram, GFX1070, fastest M2 SSD.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  19. giantkilleroverunity3d

    giantkilleroverunity3d

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    In my Oculus development arena I have a project with multiple scenes. One is a test scene where I load new assets to play with then copy them over to my project scenes. I like to switch scenes and do a 'Build and Run' pushing different apks to the headsets. This means I need to change Build and Player settings often to have multiple apks in my device library.
    I am looking for a way to autofill or automate the changing of parameters. Something simple like a management tool purchase or editor script. In the current editor scripting intellisense there are a lot that parameters missing.
    Is there anything I can use? The Headless Build Manager outputs but does not read.
    Thanks.
     
  20. awesomedata

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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  21. awesomedata

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    Also I really want to use IShortcutToolContext in my shortcuts for interactive scene control via shortcuts.
    This is used in the flythrough mode in the scene camera controller. :/


    It's not possible to add any interactive scene controls (using the new ShortcutManagement system) without this, all because this interface was deemed "internal" only.

    There are SO MANY great tools that can be made with access to this interface (such as completely custom scene camera controllers!) -- And it would bring money to you on the Asset Store.
    So why am I not allowed to implement my own camera orbit behavior -- or even a gradual color modification/tweak for a gameobject while holding a key for R, G, or B?
    These are simple tool ideas, but much better stuff could be made if people had this available.

    Lots of cool tools will never be possible with the new shortcut management system policing our access to this context...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  22. JohnHudeski

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    Why don't we have favorites for the hierarchy view/ quick ways to search?
     
  23. chrisk

    chrisk

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    Here is a proof Unity is stubborn and lazy.
    Look, I'm using 4K monitor and I have to press and hold on the down arrow for few minutes to select the script to reorder. No scrollbar for +10 years and I can't believe it.
    I reported this while ago and they said they will fix it but no one really cares.


    Yeah, I checked 2019.3 where they are working on the nice and shiny UI themes but this stupid UI is still there. What's the point when nothing changed fundamentally?
    I don't really care about the new theme. It's better and worse and matter of personal preferences, instead, they should really fix the UX.

    Unity, please wake up and do something about overhauling UX if you cannot make the editor faster by at least 5x. We are in the 21st century now.
    upload_2019-8-8_10-42-5.png
     
  24. Flow-Fire-Games

    Flow-Fire-Games

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    Please change the (seemingly) random behaviour of Object and Prefab XYZ origins when dragging into the hierarchy
    and properly center to the parent object.



    As you can see, I try to drag a prefab onto an zeroed object, and expect it to center to it, like in every other software but it does do some random offset every time.

    I asked everyone I know and all thought it was a bug. There is some crazy camera view behaviour doing this but nobody understands and it wastes a lot of time and adds frustration. (Also Prefabs are not centered in Prefab scenes either, which does not matter but feels wierd and buggy also)

    This is something that affects everyone for every object they drag into the hierarchy, and it makes the editor feel buggy and random.
     
  25. illinar

    illinar

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    EDIT: NVM, this feature is available in 2019.3 at least

    Pretty frustrated right now. Why making objects unselectable is still not a feature?? It's so obvious and simple. I needed it all the time.

    Currently arranging a group of objects inside another object which I need to see, so I can't disable it or hide it, but I assigned a transparent material (toggle object transparent in one click would also be nice but needed rarely..). There are also some objects inside that I don't want to select or move. And it's selecting a parent game object before it's selecting anything I need. So moving an object is at least a 4 clicks operation. 1 select parent of the container mesh, 2 select container mesh. 3 select mesh inside it, 4 click and drug the gizmo.

    Now I remember. I always needed to be able to control selection behavior where I needed parent object always selected instead of it's children, because It had to remain whole and unchanged. Or where I needed only children to be selectable because a container was irrelevant and never had to be selected.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  26. angularsen

    angularsen

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    No video, but a first class support for Editor folders and .asmdef files is sorely needed.

    For instance, Oculus VR integration adds a bunch of folders inside its Oculus folder and I have to manually add .asmdef files to each subfolder/module and link up their inter-dependencies. Then finally, for each subfolder and sometimes even for small utils folders inside them, they have an Editor folder with maybe just one or two decorator drawers. This is painless if you don't use .asmdef files, but for any non-trivial sized project you have to use .asmdef files for sane build and iteration times and it is just a lot of friction to manually set up .asmdef files for external packages like this and to maintain when updating the packages.

    I'm sure the Oculus team could improve the experience and maybe introduce these .asmdef files themselves, so maybe I am barking up the wrong tree here, but as a consumer this is a really painful experience for all packages on the asset store today.
     
  27. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Thanks have shared with the docs team.
     
  28. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hi there - I had a read through your thread, can I ask what parts were being ignored? you especially gave a lot of great feedback there, so i'm keen to understand what went on or didn't - please DM if you'd prefer. I hear you about neglecting threads though, I am guilty of that to some extent, i'm taking my time getting back to this thread for example, so I'd be hypocritical if I said others need to improve, we all need to. Thanks so much for raising this though.
     
  29. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey John, yeah 100% this is bad. Have prodded the Animation team about it to take a look, we have new animation systems being worked on now so its always a good time for UX feedback on the old one - this isn't the first time we've heard about this either, so we need to address it for sure. The same applies to long scrolling in the Hierarchy for example, lots of pain points to address there. Thanks for raising this!
     
  30. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Very good point, checking with the editor team will get back to you. I think I've asked the same in the past and heard about performance, not sure though.
     
  31. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hi John , I hear what you're saying about pagination, totally agree it would help in a few places. I'd also like to add more in context search using the new Quick Search feature we added (see package manager, will eventually be built in directly). This assignment and location of 'the correct asset or gameobject' is something we can boost your productivity by fixing a lot. Thanks for your thoughts! oh btw, the grouping thing is still on it's way last I checked. In 19.3 we have hierarchy locking, grouping got delayed I believe, I will check with Editor team for you.
     
  32. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey vertexx, I noticed this myself recently when working on my game, and i'm really confused as to why this changed, am speaking to our Build teams about it, seems odd. Will let you know! thanks for raising it!
     
  33. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey Sonicviz, thanks for the feedback here, we're actively working on improving stuff like this, looping in @JanisAssetStore for his visibility.
     
  34. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey Chris. Thanks for the reply here. I feel your frustration, I know that sounds like a lame thing to say but I actually do being a user too - and I want to reassure you we're not just lazy or stubborn here. I wish we were, we could just nudge some people to not be like that! We're a huge team trying to achieve all manner of things, and yes - some of the time the important stuff like that list you mentioned falls through the cracks, that's exactly what I'm working to fix here at Unity, and I appreciate your support in raising issues like this. Regarding performance in the editor specifically, we're making a lot of headway on this, parts of this will arrive in 19.3 and 20.1 which are things like the new UI (based on the faster UI Elements framework) and a big part is the new asset database, a wholesale replacement of the existing one, which causes a lot of slow down in the editor across the board when touching assets. We know how painful it is for a lot of projects to have a slow editor, and we're on it.
     
  35. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hi there, we're working on a Build Configurations project that is aimed at this issue specifically. The aim is to give you a configurations you can tweak and deploy as you need to with variations on things like platform settings and player settings etc.

    Additionally, the vision we have for the upcoming versions of Unity next year (and we have a lot of this working in experimental builds already) is to give you direct throughput to the device (or devices, plural), with changes made in playmode without having to rebuild, this is pretty magical (I've seen it in action) and hopefully will solve your problems here.

    Regarding the specifics of what you're asking about with parameters, I will ask our devs and get back to you.
     
  36. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Replied in the other thread, cheers
     
  37. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Discussing this with Editor team, thanks for raising it! We're looking at Scene tooling and have a new team working on it actually so its a great time to raise it.
     
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  38. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Favourites could be pretty useful, yep - we were discussing this the other week. As for ways to search have you tried the new Quick Search feature (see package manager)? also, that aside, what would you want adding to the existing search of the Hierarchy?
     
  39. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey, so this is a longstanding piece of nonsense, will ask the Scene tooling team what they can do, its weird we haven't fixed this, you're right - the logic the editor is applying here just ain't right.
     
  40. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Yep, now fixed in 19.3 - thanks for raising it though. You're totally right its clearly needed.
     
  41. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Asking our dev team to find out what their intended workflow for this stuff is, thanks for raising it.
     
  42. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

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    Sorry about the late reply.

    It is fairly easy to do this with Editor Scripting, making your own build menu with various combo, and you pass the list of scenes you want with something like:

    Code (CSharp):
    1. BuildPlayerOptions buildPlayerOptions = new BuildPlayerOptions
    2.        {
    3.            scenes = new[] { "Assets/_Scenes/_Start.unity"      ,
    4.                "Assets/_Scenes/Level01.unity",
    5.                "Assets/_Scenes/Level02.unity",
    6.                "Assets/_Scenes/Lose.unity",
    7.                "Assets/_Scenes/Win.unity" },
    8.            locationPathName = buildFolderLocation,
    9.            target = buildTarget,
    10.            options = buildOptions
    11.        };  
    few more links to help:
    - Editor Extensions - menu items:
    https://learn.unity.com/tutorial/editor-scripting#5c7f8528edbc2a002053b5f9
    - Build scripting examples:
    https://support.unity3d.com/hc/en-u...players-by-command-line-or-auto-build-system-
     
  43. varfare

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  44. illinar

    illinar

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    The selection lock does not work currently as it supposed to in my opinion. When selecting a prefab child it always selects the root of prefab instead, even when the root is EXPLICITLY made unselectable. There is absolutely no need to make selection lock not work on prefab root, so I think it's just something overlooked and I hope it will be fixed.
     
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  45. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey just checking, which selection lock are you talking about? we have a new selection lock feature coming in 2020.1 - do you mean what's in alpha?
     
  46. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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  47. illinar

    illinar

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    I mean 2019.3, when you Alt+LMB on the pointer icon next to a prefab in the inspector. Not sure if you are talking about the same thing, but I checked in 2020 to confirm if it works the same way, it does. When clicking on that object in the scene the "unselectable" empty root is selected.

    upload_2019-9-19_14-38-40.png
     
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  48. awesomedata

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    Just curious about the progress of this -- it affects my ability to create editor tools for things like modifications to the scene-view's camera controller properly. This not only affects me, but others with similar workflow issues as well.

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/new...-in-2019-1-are-great-but.664378/#post-4926293

    One thing I want to point out is that some "tools" are not just "tools" like "painting/editing" tools, but can actually be _anything_ (such as a multi-tool, multi-window, scene camera controller like NAVIGATION STUDIO in my sig), and as such, need to be able to be interactive in a way that should be definable in a global shortcut context (i.e. with a mouse / key combination to fire functionality/methods interactively and globally, while also being somewhat globally malleable as far as configuring key combos / hardware -- like the mouse pointer or stylus input -- goes).


    Don't get me wrong -- modifying the scene camera (by overriding it and extending it) is great and would be a dream-come-true for my tool, but there are other ways that interactive shortcuts are very handy in developing games of a particular (or newly imagined!) style.

    For example, if I want to make an old-school (NES) Zelda clone, I want the scene camera to be able to move screen-to-screen, so I would fit my camera to a standard scene size in the form of a rectangle, then shift it around digitally, one unit at a time (with a LERP) in whatever direction I want the character to transition to the next screen, and I would want this easy transition of the scene camera available to me at EDIT time. This is a case where an editor tool to shift the scene camera would work better globally than as a tool or button you click in a window. It would speed up development time for the level designer and artists working on it exponentially. Imagine if the global editor tool to move the camera could be linked with an editor window that could pop up/down when you want it to and shift to some area of the world map? This would be just as equally useful an option in HUGE open world games as much as it would be in an NES zelda clone. Perhaps just associate global tools like this with an "invisible" (and disable-able) editor window?


    My tool, NAVIGATION STUDIO, attempts to mimic a tool like this one by doing its best at being a true multi-window suite of global tools, with windows whose properties can be accessed when closed or open, running or in edit mode, who can pop up/down or can be docked and disabled/hidden (even when docked) at any time -- which is an approach Unity fails to properly support up to this moment.


    As it stands currently, Unity's current solution is too narrowly-focused, and its oversights in tool creation, shortcut integration, and specifically editor-window or tool-focused approaches stand in my way of being able to achieve my vision for this user-focused, workflow-friendly, suite of tools that will "get out of your way when you don't need them, and are a fingertip away when you do."

    Please help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  49. nsmith1024

    nsmith1024

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    Hello

    Im just starting to use the new Unity nested prefab workflow (or what ever you call it) in Unity 2018.3

    So how it works is when you want to edit a prefab, you select it then click on the arrow. When you do this it erases everything from the hierarchy window and then you only have that prefab visible until your done editing it, you click save and then its back to the original hierarchy that was there before you started editing.

    This is all fine, but the problem is what if i want to drag a game object from my scene into the prefab im editing is now impossible because as soon as you start editing the prefab, it removes your scene and only shows the contents of the prefab. So you cant drag anything from your scene into the prefab any more because its gone for the duration of the editing.

    I dont know if im making myself clear or not.... But basically im saying while editing the prefab, only the contents of the prefab is visible, your scene is not visible, so you cant drag any object from your scene into the prefab anymore.

    Anybody knows how to get around this? Right now i want to drag a gameObject from my scene into a prefab im editing to make a reference to a global object, but while editing the prefab my scene is not visible, so i cant do it.

    Thank
     
  50. Baste

    Baste

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Posts:
    4,286
    There's quite a bit of info about this on the prefab section of the forums.

    You can drag an object from your scene into your prefab. The only change is that you have to add it to the end of the prefab's hierarchy - the easiest way is to just drag it onto the prefab's root.

    If you want to apply that to the prefab (so all instances have it), you simply apply overrides as you always have. That's now only available from the root of the prefab.

    There's two or three regressions here:
    - You can't drag the object into the middle of the prefab instance's hierarchy. I still don't quite understand why - it used to work without breaking the prefab, which is what's not allowed anymore.
    - The second one is that you can only apply from the prefab instance's root. This is because Unity found, when testing, that people got confused by the overrides dropdown existing on children. I still think this should be an option, but Unity's stance on options for how the user interface is a dogmatic "NO NO NO, NEVER", to the point where I think "user interface options are not allowed" is stapled to employees monitors or foreheads or something.
    - The third one - which might not be real - is that people seem to not understand these things. I followed the discussion around the development, so I'm not sure if this is because the workflow is inherently hard to understand or if people are just idiots.
     
    awesomedata likes this.