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Assets [ WOOT ] -- *Snapcam NAVIGATION STUDIO - 2.1*

Discussion in 'Works In Progress' started by awesomedata, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    EDIT:

    Going to look into something I think could be triggering this. Let me test it out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  2. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    @Lars-Steenhoff

    Alright, so I've tested it with everything up to the latest 2018.2.0f2 version and it seems like there's some underlying backend changes Unity has made that doesn't like my window being dragged / docked without making it also remain persistent too.

    The (current) workaround is to simply mark the window as "persistent" (with the respective button at the bottom of the "Grid Navigator" window) before dragging/docking it -- after that, it can be docked/undocked normally.


    I'm looking into a more permanent fix for this issue. As soon as I find one, I'll post it here.

    Sorry for the inconvenience. :(
     
    Lars-Steenhoff likes this.
  3. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    Thanks for the heads up!
     
  4. Yarbius

    Yarbius

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    I had the exact same error but it turned out to be an editor window with the issue. Changing to a default editor layout fixed it. I reset the layouts to factory setting then recreated my custom layout just to be sure.
     
  5. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Just an update --

    Unity reproduced the bug and is now looking into fixing this behavior on their end. I am still awaiting their bugfix to see what actions I need to take from my end to properly resolve this issue (hopefully without splitting it into two separate window types -- i.e. a popup and a regular window -- just so I won't crash the Editor... :p)
     
  6. GeekGonzo

    GeekGonzo

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    Hotdogs! This looks incredible, and I'm wondering how I haven't heard of it before. Came across it via a post you made in the support forums, this would seriously improve my workflow!

    Is this still in active development? It's hard to gauge due to the lack of reviews, and discussion here. Was there any resolution to that last bug you were looking at in August?

    Would seriously love to add this tool to my list, this should be in Unity out of the box if its still all working.
     
  7. chrisk

    chrisk

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    I just bought SnapCam for the ViewNavigator but it's not what I expected. I expected to be able to control the speed of Unity's FPS camera control (RClick + WASD) but it just support Forward-Backward on LeftShift button. Forward-Backward movements are useful for flying through the scene but not for inspecting small objects.

    I use RClick + WASD to move around the scene a lot. It's the easiest to navigate throught he scene and please support camera speed options for the control.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  8. chrisk

    chrisk

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    Also, while in orbit mode, I can't change zoom speed as the mouse wheel is used for zoom in/out instead of chaning zoom speed. I think the better way to zoom in/out is to use W or S key and mouse wheel to zoom in/out speed to keep it consistent.

    I primarily needed the SnapCam to work with small size objects since Unity camera moves too fast for small objecrts. It looks like you primarily designed the camera for large size map and to fly around, not inspecting small size object. I hope you add finer control for small size objects too.

    Thanks.

    ps. Also, while in orbiting, the movement is too sensitive to the mouse movement. I think it will be good if you can have some sort of setting menus for the parameter so that we can adjust them ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  9. maydragon

    maydragon

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    I bought the asset and I would also love to see a way to control the speed of the flythrough camera. I work with huge terrains and the scale of the Editor Camera is simply too small if not unintuitive.
     
  10. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Thank you! -- This means a lot!! :D

    Sorry about not responding! -- Apparently I've not been receiving notifications for this thread... :/


    So, to answer some outstanding questions from @GeekGonzo, @chrisk, and @maydragon :
    1. Yes, I am still actively developing Snapcam! -- Design work can be a nightmare though!


      If you've noticed a lack of updates, there are currently 3 reasons:

      • Unity has started to implement some requested features of the View Navigator into 2019.1 (such as WASD camera speed using the mousewheel). I am waiting for the 2019.1 release to assess a potential new design for the View Navigator's controls (the new global shortcut features are likely to interfere, so I need to assess what's possible in-detail.)

      • I don't like bugs in my tools -- Unity has yet to "fix" the docking bug, claiming it is one of those "by design" "features" (that throw an error when you do something completely normal that it doesn't like), so I'm reassessing the Grid Navigator's "hybrid pop-up" design too. The new "UI Elements" _might_ work for these kinds of windows, but I can't really say for sure since it isn't a complete API design yet. It could have the same (or worse) bugs in that kind of redesign. I don't want to sacrifice the current design by making it "popup-only" or "static-only", so I am trying to consider all design options at my disposal.

      • Flythrough controls with WASD have been impossible to implement due to the inability to increase the key repetition rate for the standard letter keys in the editor (and fire continuous events based on these), so I am hoping that 2019.1 will solve this problem with its shortcut keys feature, though I'm not holding much hope for this due to the continuously "At Risk" state of the new input system. If anyone knows a way to increase the repeat rate of the letter keys (in the editor) to fire off events, I would definitely appreciate a tip! Otherwise, we will have to see what 2019.1 brings with its new scene view navigation controls and custom shortcuts...


    2. @chrisk -- I totally wanted WASD speed control in Navigation Studio too, but Unity totally b0rk3d us on this by having a buggy Editor "event" system esp. for standard letter keys (and being unable to increase their repeat rates except through the OS, meaning the speed letter keys fire in the Windows Editor is too slow and inconsistent for camera controls). The 2019.1 release might help you here though, since they implement exactly what you asked for.
      Regarding orbit / zoom controls -- you have a point. I'll consider your advice.

    3. @maydragon -- If by "Flythrough camera", you mean holding the Shift key to fly forward, then just roll your mousewheel to change the speed of the forward movement "on the fly" with that. ;P



    TL;DR


    -- Thanks to 2019's new approach to basically everything UI-related, I am currently regrouping my UI efforts.
    My fancy UI design stuff is on hold until I can get a stable platform, which also holds up the progress on my Adventure Navigator too. :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  11. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Just purchase a few days ago.
    Noticing that the Grid Nav. Window does not accurately reflect the position of the "snap" !
    Before I delve further..is this normal?
    I can go to the precise point I snapped when I use the slider on the Snap nav window and go to it..
    But clicking on the snap via the Grid Nav window takes me close but not accurate.
    Can this be fixed? What might I be doing wrong?
    Thanks. Otherwise I find this software terrific!
     
    awesomedata likes this.
  12. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    What version of Unity are you using?

    This could be due to the way 2019 is handling fov and pivot of the camera.You
    can now change the fov, but originally it was set to 60 and couldn't be changed without effecting the camera position and pivot too). It's possible these are set or referenced differently now. I'll have to look into it when I get a bit of time.

    By any chance, are you using the default snaps to test this? I'm not positive the thumbnail is accurate on some of those. Can you verify that the position is actually different, or if it's just the thumbnail that's off? The snap and grid navigators should be grabbing and storing the same data.

    Maybe a screenshot could help?

    Either way, I'll look into this when I get a bit of time this weekend. There's been some stuff I've been meaning to look at anyway in regards to 2019 changes.
     
  13. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Thanks.
    Using 2017.2 Windows10
    It's on a simple scene I set up. Not your included scene. I have objects of various sizes and placed here and there.

    Yes, it's the snap that's off.
    The icon/picture in the Grid Nav window looks perfectly placed itself. But clicking on the icon/pic in the GridNav takes you some distance back Z and a little below Y. from the icon/picture it is displaying.
    Not much but maybe half a metre or so to a metre..
    As I said, results with the Snap Nav window are perfect.
    Thanks.
     
  14. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Interesting. I will definitely look into this.

    It really sounds like the Unity Editor is grabbing the pivot point of the scene camera - fov, not the camera position itself. What's odd is that this is functional for the Snap Navigator. Theoretically, they should both be grabbing the same data. D:
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  15. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Well turn me over in the spit !
    Suddenly I cannot duplicate this "fault" I was getting previously!!!!
    Lots of exclamation points, sorry for that but your great little program is doing what it should.
    Both the Grid and the Snap Nav are taking me to exactly the same spot.
    How can this be? Don't know. But there you be.
    I haven't done anything that I remember.
    Got a Oculus update..maybe that? Maybe a W10 thing?
    I guessed at adjusting aspect ratio settings in my project but that didn't help,
    So it's all very pleasing but confusing...

    One thing I must ask:

    Where does one adjust the Camera settings on your program's Scene Camera that is used in the Scene window?
    It was late last night so I may not have searched properly.
    I'd like to make some adjustments to it.
    I must say many thanks for your prompt answers. Love the ease of moving to strategic editing points without the hassle of the Unity method. Nice to "click" and get there!
    Now, where is that camera :)
     
    syscrusher likes this.
  16. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Lol -- That's interesting indeed. Did you by chance close the editor and reopen it? Unity can be wonky sometimes, and that tends to "fix" some issues, but if you're doing VR stuff, that could probably introduce some bizarre bugs to the scene camera. I've not got a VR setup to test Snapcam, so I couldn't help you there.



    No worries! :) If you want to change the camera itself (such as the fov), I've not yet implemented the ability to do this due to having to manage the fov manually (to support the ability to zoom while in Ortho and 2d modes). Since I knew a lot of scene/camera changes were coming in 2019, I decided to hold-off on implementing more features such as changing fov until I could get a feel for what might be coming in terms of specific UI stuff.

    That said --
    If you just want to change some keys, you might want to check the "ViewNavigator.cs" script. There aren't many keys that can move the camera at a reliable speed (due to the key repeat delay kicking in). The only keys this delay doesn't happen on is Ctrl, (Left)Shift, and Alt (as of 2017 and 2018 -- I'm not yet sure about 2019 since the event system has been heavily modified under the hood, but I plan to test the 2019 changes soon.)
     
    syscrusher likes this.
  17. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Thanks again.
    The clipping on your scene camera seems to be set at 1000 0r less?
    Makes it very difficult to see ahead in terrains etc.
    Somewhere to adjust this?
    The rest seems great.
    Thanks again.
     
    awesomedata likes this.
  18. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Sorry for the delay -- I've been doing some testing on 2019 this weekend for new/alternative UI / camera workflows.

    Setting the clipping for scene cameras was another one of those scene-camera features that 2019 implemented so I held off on upgrading it or making any further changes to it.


    To answer your question -- the "ViewNavigator.cs" script would have that in it (I can't remember where, or even if I ended up setting the clipping manually or not), so you'll have to dig into the script a bit. Fortunately that's just a single script, and if I remember correctly, it could be either near the start (around the input checking) or somewhere near where I set the fov back (do a search for "60" to find the portion where I handle the fov).

    It's important to keep in mind that this clipping value might be modified internally (by Unity) in certain cases -- especially when you roll your mouse-wheel. There is no way I can prevent them from doing this pre-2019, and I'm not sure about preventing it in 2019+ just yet either, but I'm still doing my research. Though, in 2019, it appears they have changed to a dolly-style zoom, so this problem might not exist now.
    That being said -- Unity's scene-camera's clipping setting can be weird. This is likely due to how they do their zoom pre-2019. Unity uses a "sniper-style" zoom, rather than a "dolly-style" zoom (like I do, but it looks like they changed this zoom style in 2019) -- To do the sniper-style zoom, they must change the field of view. I, however, keep that constant and change the camera's actual position, which avoids the weird clipping issues many users have reported with objects that are right in front of the camera after lots of zooming (probably a precision issue imo.)
    Dolly-zoom doesn't break anything, and it does keep clipping more consistent at different scales or zoom levels (despite one not being able to see quite as far in some cases like yours).
    That trade-off can be mitigated if it becomes too problematic by simply deleting the ViewNavigator.cs script, however you will lose the new scene-camera controls by doing this. This is unavoidable though, since the scene camera is a very special case and is not persistent in the scene (like regular scene cameras are), and as such, it does not work the way you might expect it to when changing its position or the way it sees the world. Unity doesn't like anybody messing with its internal stuff, so modify these settings at your own risk.

    Hopefully that explains some things! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  19. vertexx

    vertexx

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    Just an update from here.
    I find that translation of an object is very awkward when using Nav. Studio.
    Create say a cube. Then try to scale an axis. That seems ok but when I then wish to scale another axis I find I must reclick before the scale tool will change to that axis.
    The same with moving the object.
    No problems if not using your software.
    Any clues? Maybe it's related to 2017 versions?
     
  20. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Yes, this seems like a bug with drag not restoring interaction with gizmos.
    I don't use drag at all for left clicks, so I'm not sure what Unity is expecting internally.

    There _might_ be a workaround if you remove/comment-out the Left click mouse event checks in the View Navigator.cs script. I don't recall using this event anywhere, so that could fix your issue. I haven't removed it because I had some ideas in mind that would use it, but Unity might just be expecting me to use or release the control.

    Either way, let me know if this works.

    I've been looking at rewriting Navigation Studio for 2019, so I'm putting low priority on improving it for earlier versions.
    Major user experience issues like yours I will still look into though, so no sweat on that front.
    2019 has done a lot of stuff that makes the current View Navigator somewhat redundant. 2019 doesn't fix everything though. For example, I can't orbit objects easily, and zooming in on them is still a pain. The F key is not great for framing either. These are still issues I want to fix, but since they've revamped the entire scene camera system, including scene camera with nested prefabs, I've got my work cut out for me. Not to mention I still want to include the Adventure Navigator soon. :)
     
  21. BlackManatee

    BlackManatee

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    Hi,
    Just bought SnapCam, but I'm using Unity 2019.1.5.

    Obviously it was a mistake; if I had checked this forum I'd have known to wait. Still, the tool seems promising, and the reviews were great.

    But I'm not looking for any fancy features at this point. ALL I WANT to do is to be able to fly around a scene at a reasonably high speed. Unity's WASD camera accelerates infinitely, so I have to stop completely, then accelerate (slowly) again, then stop and hope I've guessed where the camera is going to end up.

    I've been using Unity since <2009, and I've tried a few scene camera plugins -- but they tend to be very unreliable.

    If you have a suggestion, or a beta version, that could at least get me SOME usability (a free-flight camera with a speed control would meet 99% of my needs), I'd really appreciate it.

    I'll wait to post a review for a while, but from what I can see, the camera doesn't navigate in 2019.

    PS: Is there a manual or instructions anywhere? Thanks!
     
  22. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    There are a few places things are scattered about, including the promo video on the Asset Store and some info in the text file included in the asset, but I really need to make a clear help file. I plan to do that once camera controls are finalized.




    I can totally understand where you're coming from with this.

    Sane camera control was one of the two original reasons I designed Snapcam (the other was that I wanted to snap to any position in the world I wanted to).



    To be upfront, I don't make much on Snapcam already and Unity's cut hurts a lot. I have set the price low to purposefully offset for some of the pains new users like you may go through in waiting for me to get a good camera control design ready for 2019.1. That said, although Snapcam isn't my primary focus in life, I still do use Snapcam myself for game design and I take A LOT of pride in making it great since it is my first (and only) asset.
    I am not satisfied with it being a pre-2019 plugin either, so as I have had time, I've been trying different methods of approaching camera control that will work in harmony with 2019.1 (now that it has been finalized).

    Unity 2019.1 camera controls take A LOT of experimentation to get the right min/max camera speed values and are just fiddly in general. And as you change between scenes, these camera movement values tend to need to be changed -- a lot. This is another major issue I'd like to address with the new View Navigator.



    I too hate the fact that there is no limit to the speed of the acceleration of the camera, so thanks for pointing that out. I will look to see if I can get Snapcam to limit that in 2019.1.


    I'm aiming at a week before I can get deep into it, but I'll keep everyone posted here as soon as I am able.
    Thanks for your patience on this.
     
  23. BlackManatee

    BlackManatee

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    That sounds excellent (awesome, in fact!).

    A couple of quick comments/suggestions:
    • Decent (in-editor) camera controllers are far more rare than I would have imagined! I've spent a lot of time searching the Asset Store (on more than one occasion over the years), and the vast majority of camera controllers focus on gameplay cams rather than in-editor controls.
    • Because of that, I would definitely not fret about your pricing. I think a lot of regular Unity users have come to appreciate (and notice!) the sellers who support their products -- and it's clear that Unity's changes -- while mostly great and welcome -- are causing huge headaches to the vendors. I'd far rather pay extra for a good asset that's well-supported vs one that works in 2019.1.5 but can't install to 2019.1.6!
    • In terms of sales, I'd strongly suggest posting a (very) feature-limited version, once you've stabilized the new products. (Perhaps you're already doing this!) Since Unity's editor-camera is universally seen as a royal pain, I think you'd make a splash (and a lot of friends) even if your free product did nothing more than address the endless acceleration! ;)
     
    awesomedata likes this.
  24. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Thanks for the feedback, @BlackManatee!


    So, as promised, I've been looking heavily into finally getting a better camera setup for the 2019 editor camera -- especially in terms of limiting acceleration.

    In short, limiting acceleration in 2019.1 would require a major rewrite of the entire SceneView camera controller under the newly-implemented (heavily undocumented) shortcut management system. However, Unity has locked down their in-scene camera controller (no way to override it), so the only option to fix the acceleration issue is to (again) rewrite yet _another_ version of it.. which totally sucks for both of us (because my project is also currently in 2019.1).

    BUT! You are in luck.

    https://unity3d.com/beta/2019.2
    Editor: Added a toggle to the Scene Camera settings for infinite acceleration when navigating with flying mode.


    Unity is making amends for this horrendous acceleration oversight in 2019.1 by fixing this specific acceleration issue in 2019.2! So for all practical purposes, you _will_ have your fix as soon as 2019.2 releases.
    Sadly, 2019.1 is out (for the acceleration fix) because it will mean a potentially hack-y camera controller for you if I made my own again totally from scratch. I will have to (again) counteract the effects of the default camera controller (and make it work for 2d, 3d, and Iso modes too). This would include lots of hoop-jumping since Unity tends to do some out-there stuff with its shortcuts to get its "fly mode" to work. A big, error-prone rewrite of a system that has potential seems like overkill (now that the camera controller is being fixed!)



    Please be aware that even with the acceleration fixed, this wont solve all issues with Unity's scene camera (just a very fundamentally broken one!)
    My goal with Navigation Studio is to ensure editor navigation in general is a breeze. I will implement better camera control as part of this process. For example, Unity has yet to fix orbit, framing, or zoom controls in a fully satisfying way, so those will be my next task. I'm very much open to suggestions if there are more pressing pain points, but ultimately, I just want visualization in our scenes to be as simple, user-friendly, and instantaneous as possible. That's why the Snap and Grid Navigators were born, and why I took the time to rewrite Unity's scene camera controller the first time with the original View Navigator.

    Even though I'm averse to rewriting the new scene camera controller from scratch again (it's currently impossible to do the same way using the new shortcut system), maybe I can still convince them to open up the scene camera controller!! For now, I can still at least supplement its functionality with better orbit, framing, etc., which I already plan to do. I also aim to add some other editor-specific stuff for large streaming worlds soon (no fancy features -- just downright _practical_ navigation stuff). I know you bought Navigation Studio for better editor camera controls, but please don't write Navigation Studio off just yet -- I've still got plans that will make editor life easier for anyone designing games!



    This is generally good advice. Sadly, Unity has modified its algorithm so free (or very low-priced) assets are actually now frowned upon by the asset store search. They purposefully don't drive much traffic anymore due to how Unity has recently setup things.

    Maybe good reviews will help more now? I don't know, but I can support one asset a lot better anyway.
    I take a lot of pride in making my stuff great (and useful!), so it's okay if I can't drive that much traffic.
    It's not about numbers for me -- I just want to make a good, well-designed, tool.
     
  25. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    So just an update --

    I've been doing some research into a redesign of my beloved Snapcam for 2019.3 and up, and one of the issues I faced with it was whether to scrap the ViewNavigator since the Unity Editor scene camera is now "usable" to some extent.

    Are there any features you still use/enjoy in the ViewNavigator, or would you prefer to go mostly vanilla with Unity's camera?


    I ask this because I think there are still a couple of reasons to keep the ViewNavigator (one is mainly for camera rotation / zoom around a selected gameobject, and another is the flythrough mode using shift, the mousewheel, and RMB actually being like "flying through" your levels), but many of these are still at odds with Unity's default controls and must counteract them to effectively disable them in order to function.

    The simplest option would be to go forward without the ViewNavigator, focusing solely on Snapcam as a game visualization tool (rather than a camera control tool), but I've not yet decided.
    NAVIGATION STUDIO's identity seems to revolve around its Snap Navigator, which offers a small-but-powerful method of scene camera control, but the View Navigator, especially, emphasizes this notion of "camera control" by literally allowing one to control the scene camera. However, this muddies the overall message of "game visualization" I had intended to convey with NAVIGATION STUDIO after including "scene camera control" as a core facet of its identity. Apparently "game visualization" becomes "scene visualization through the camera" now, and it is something I would like to get away from.

    When I say "game visualization" -- I really mean it. For the entire game. Not just the scene camera's view of the game.

    I've got a few tools in the pipeline that will show off what I mean more explicitly, but for now, I want to know your thoughts on nixing the ViewNavigator in favor of the 2019.x camera system (and a proper move toward game visualization).
     
  26. chrisk

    chrisk

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    Hi, there, I thought you abandoned the project. You mentioned that you have something really cool to show a really long time ago but there hasn't been any update. But I'm glad that you are back.

    Don't get rid of camera control. 2019.3 camera control is somewhat useable but it's not perfect yet.
    I really haven't been using it extensively and let's wait until 2019.3 and I'll let you know what's is lacking.
    Until then, you can work on the scene camera. It would be nice if you can show what's in your mind.

    Thanks.
     
  27. Don-Gray

    Don-Gray

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    I haven't used SnapCam utility in a long time, but seems I was having give it more time than I wanted and the saves weren't reliable. I cannot comment on your question, but will be watching further development.
     
  28. awesomedata

    awesomedata

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    Thanks for the feedback. I've been looking into a bit of a redesign of the base snaps system. This redesign should fix any of the issues with the saves that occurred in later versions of the Unity Editor.


    Thanks for that! -- And no worries! I have lots of plans for this project. My absence has just been due to lack of time. Snapcam doesn't make much, but I still wouldn't abandon it without a word. I respect my customers more than that.


    In short, the area of game visualization is definitely a much-needed area to fill, but that's also the very reason I haven't shown anything particularly cool yet. There aren't (yet) any tools like the ones I'm designing out there, so I've been keeping them close to my chest for now. I've had a few people rip off my designs with Snapcam, so I want to try to minimize that with any new tools. The Adventure Navigator is very useful for large game worlds, but it has gone through several iterations since I first mentioned it thanks to various real-world usage scenarios already. I plan to make use of some upcoming features of Unity that aren't polished enough yet, so I'm holding out for this too. In the meantime, I still have to make some soul-searching decisions about the Snap Navigator and View Navigator designs going forward, so there is no shortage of work. This has resulted in a bit of a delay due to life getting in the way, but developing these tools' designs holistically is still my goal, and I want to make sure I tackle that first.

    That said -- do expect the Adventure Navigator to debut in the nearer term though. I'll reply here with details when I get it closer to its final design! -- In the meantime though, I'm really sorry for the suspense! I hope it will be worth the wait!
     
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