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Resolved With Burst not deterministic, can we run the server on other platform than target platform? | Replay

Discussion in 'NetCode for ECS' started by Samsle, Aug 20, 2023.

  1. Samsle

    Samsle

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    On the roadmap it says, that Burst Determinism is still under consideration.
    And let's say we have a multiplayer game using Unity Physics and Unity Netcode for Entities, with client prediction etc.

    Can we run the server on another platform than the target platform, e.g. the server on Linux and the client on Windows/Android/IOS? And would that mean that the netcode prediction is often wrong then?

    Also I was planning to store the input-values on serverside and let clients (on another platform) replay the game. Would that be possible? :confused:
     
  2. NikiWalker

    NikiWalker

    Unity Technologies

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    Hey! Yes you can mix platforms. NetCode for Entities does benefit from full determinism, but it does not rely on it. Linux server Vs multiplatform client (including mobile) is the expected common workflow.

    Mispredictions happen "all the time" even with good conditions, so don't worry about CPU arch divergences.

    Unfortunately no, you'd need to store much more (exactly how much is game dependent). We're not a deterministic lockstep architecture, so input on each tick is not enough info to reproduce the frame. Storing a snapshot of the all ghost's GhostFields at 15/30/60Hz (or similar) is probably required.
     
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  3. Samsle

    Samsle

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    Hey NikiWalker, thanks for your reply!
    That's awesome to hear. (But also confusing, how is this possible when using non-deterministic Burst? :confused:)

    But `lockstep` describes a method of networking right? What if the server stores the input values each tick to a file. The client then downloads this file and runs it against it's systems? Could this not work?
     
  4. CMarastoni

    CMarastoni

    Unity Technologies

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    Burst is not completely fully deterministic (floating point in particular) across architecture. It is somewhat on the same (x86 for example). The default settings (unless you put FloatMode: Fast) are to use no-optimisation, so madd and other reciprocal stuff aren't used.
    NetCode for entities is not a GPPO or LockStep model where fully determism is required. True, client send the input to the server and the client-side "prediction" pretend to calculate the same simulation output.
    But as I said, "it pretend". There it no guarateee the prediction to be 100% identical, there are multiple factors that affect that:
    - float quantisation
    - partial ticks
    - partial ghost snapshots

    That may cause the client to "mis-predict". But that does not matter. The simulation is "server authoritative", implying that the state from the server is the truth. The client will correct its output (and eventually slowly converge or snap to the new result) and stay in sync with server.

    You can still store the input the server apply to tick X (what it saw and applied to the client) a file. And replay that back and getting the same simulation output for your player (on the same CPU architecture). It rmay requires though a little mode data than this (unless recorded at exactly the beginning of the simulation, where the initial state is known).
    There are there little things that may be required to make this work exactly identical (some state for the time sync) but that should be.
    However, that would work only if the client also simulates all the other entities too (that may be not the case, the server was doing that and the client just showing the interpolated data).
     
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  5. Samsle

    Samsle

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    Thank you so much! :)
    That gave me a very clear picture of what is going on and what is possible.

    Regarding the replay, I got the idea actual from here (twitch). The developers from Detonation Racing stored the data of the server, so they could use the replay for debugging -and debugging then of course happened on other architectures (at least that's what I would expect).
    But maybe they did it like Niki described, and additional to the input data they stored also snapshot data of the ghosts (Edit: Seems I'm blind, actual in one of the slides at 8:28:00 you can see that indeed they used the Car transforms & velocities for the next frame processing)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023