Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

Games [WIP] Wake of Poseidon

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by Sluggy, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Hello all,
    This thread is dedicated to regular updates on my first commercial project
    Animated Title.gif
    Try the Alpha Demo now!

    Wake of Poseidon is a bullet-hell, beat em up, platformer that I am currently developing using a technique called 'Forced Rapid Development' or more commonly referred to as - 'Seriously dude get off yer a** and make a f***ing game already'.

    The original post here as become seriously outdated so I've changed a bit but left the original screenshots to give you an idea of where it started.

    Latest Screenshots
    1.gif
    3.gif


    Outdated Screenshots
    View attachment 248919
    ezgif-4-6050028e94.gif

    ~James
     

    Attached Files:

    • 2.gif
      2.gif
      File size:
      3.3 MB
      Views:
      850
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  2. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    So after a lot of hard though I ended up changing direction with the project. Turns out once I got everything in place and roughly working it was - well boring. It was kinda scary throwing a lot of stuff away but I'm glad I did it. I feel far more excited about the project now and I'm focusing more on creative goals and less on technical ones.

    The emphasis has moved from a cardinal-direction top-down shooter to more of a sidescroller beat 'em up style. It still relies on a fair amount of gunplay but everything is now much more focused on the horizontal axis. This has rid me of many headaches involving widescreens and arbitrarily rotating rooms in random 'dungeons'. It's also freed me up from having to animate all four cardinal directions (or at least three if I using mirroring) which means I can spend more time on the quality of the animations.

    The AI is currently busted so I'll just post some gifs and a very short (and terribly compressed) video for now. But hey, one of the two playable characters is nearly completely animated now so, huzzah!

    nyx-pistol.gif
    nyx-unarmed.gif

     

    Attached Files:

  3. AkiraWong89

    AkiraWong89

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Posts:
    662
    Looks cool. There are very less side-scrolling beat 'em up games on the market since classic arcade era.
    My suggestion is the camera can be perspective instead of orthographic so it's 2.5D game play.:)
     
  4. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Originally it did have a little perspective, something like an FoV of 6 but I ended up flattening it out to an FoV as low as I could go (can't use true orthangonal due to deferred rendering) because it made the sprite-based characters seem a little out of place. I'm considering playing around with some oblique othagonal angles too. I'll like be experimenting with it some more once I get the core mechanics working. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  5. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Posts:
    7,790
    Wow! Did you experience 'the fun' prior to getting to the point where you started to feel like the gameplay was boring?
    Finding the fun needs to be apparent long before starting 'actual' development.
    I like the direction your now headed. ;)
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  6. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Yes, the fun was there but the situation was different. It was a small arena with enemies spawning in at fixed points in time. However, I really want a game that is more progressive - where players have to get from point A to point B rather than run in circles. The very core mechanics worked fine but the 'presentation' was not meshing. That was what prompted the change. Now I have a much tighter focus on progression by forcing the player to move forward and the level design, gameplay, and goals seem much more aligned now.

    Good question by the way. This descision was very much done by gut instinct and feel. I didn't really have a formal understanding until just now when you made me explain it.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  7. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Posts:
    7,790
    Thats awesome. Its really cool to hear revelations in design & dev processes. I have minor experience but have experienced the exact same thing in the past.
    I was firm on a design element I felt needed to be a certain way even though there was strong logical reasons to change/improve/enhance the element. Several weeks later when the design could be tested in the original design and the improved design, it was obvious to all the intuition I had about the design was correct and adding to the element actually made the gameplay overly complex and less fun.

    I also find A to B more enjoyable over arena based progression. Although certain games have provided well done, entertaining arena based progression.
     
  8. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960


    So this week didn't see much in the way of actual gameplay or content creation. Instead I focused on two things.

    1) The camera. it now uses a very nifty oblique projection. I'm especially happy with how the controls turned out since they are still camera relative despite the fact that the xyz axis are skewed in the new camera view. I also added a slew of features to the motion tracking - deadzones, focus points, and position locking. These are all tools that will allow me to easily create rooms and scenarios where the camera is always in just the right position. (If you look closely you can see it taking effect in the video when I cross the first set of grated platforms, it actually moves the camera back a little so the floor stays centered).

    4) Controls. I definitely want gamepad support and it has to work seamlessly for both players. Unfortunately Unity simply doesn't provide that service out of box. Originally I was using my own wrapper, then I upgraded to a free library called TeamUtility InputManager. I had been working with that for a while but sadly it just doesn't work well since it still relies on Unity's input as a back-end. This week I just bit the bullet and purchased and integrated Rewired and man was it easy! Couldn't be happier. I'll never work without it again.

    C) Menus... I hate, I hate, I Hate programming menus. I have a lot of utilities to help ease the pain but it doesn't help much. Honestly, I just gave up at one point and started hard-coding the stuff. Probably regret that later. I feel sorry for people that work on complex systems for stuff like RPGs. Luckily, this game is very menu-light. I did that on purpose. I hate making menus.



    argos-unarmed.gif argos-pistol.gif
    argos-rifle.gif
     
    guavaman and RavenOfCode like this.
  9. AkiraWong89

    AkiraWong89

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Posts:
    662
    @Sluggy
    The Rewired plugins look cool. I should wishlist that for future projects. Thanks for sharing.:)
    Haha. My programmer friends also not quite like coding the menu UI/UX part.
    But I personally like it. Maybe I'm an Artist? I'm using iTween / LeanTween / DOTween.
    The camera angle remind me of classic beat 'em up arcade games.
    Although they are using art to cheat the effect but the feeling is the same.
    Keep it up.;)
     
  10. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Man, after a real slow start due to some issues in Unity I managed to make up for lost time. I've added a ton of new features and finally have the game back in a working, albeit, completely different state.
    The features this week included:
    -more camera system tweeks (with more on the way)
    -three mobs fully animated and integrated into the game
    -a basic AI for mobs
    -a pseudo-database system that I can use in conjunction with the mob spawner. It allows me to recycle a small set of generic mobs from a pool and 'dress' them with animators and stats based on database entries
    -strafing and target locking
    -sound effects and visuals for feedback when the player hits and enemy
    -sounds, visuals, and a knockback effect when the player is struct - again for feedback
    -a basic inventory front-end and the ability to swap weapons with a button

    I've also got a video of some early gameplay. mostly just me running about while blasting up some baddies. I promise next time I'll record in a higher resolution.
     
    RavenOfCode likes this.
  11. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Once again a week that had a slow start and finished off with a total rush! Unfortunately I'm a little behind since I wanted to post another video by yesterday and I'm still putting pieces together tonight. This is actually a rather outdated video from Monday. Quite a bit has changed since then.



    The list of improvements was quite large:
    -Worked out the last of the kinks with the camera. It now smoothly centers all focus objects on screen and can be snapped to specific areas for important events.
    -Rewrote the AI from scratch after a few suggestions from the Game Design forum https://forum.unity.com/threads/adding-new-feature-vs-leveraging-existing-ones.502560/
    Also added a few other AIs and a few new enemies.
    -Fixed the UI issues with weapons. Developed some new weapons and balanced them.
    -Started work on environment props and scenery.

    My big task right now is to build a library of 'rooms' that I can build small combat/platforming scenarios around. After that I'll start working on the rules for stringing them together to make semi-randomized levels. For now I'll leave you with some screenies of the new artwork so far.

    snip1.PNG snip2.PNG snip3.PNG
     
    theANMATOR2b and PhilippG like this.
  12. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    It's been a while since I've had a chance to work on this project. Mostly been doing 'black triangle' work while getting accustomed to a new job and shift.

    However, I'm back at it and more eager than ever! You can follow my progress on my youtube channel here
    Post Existence Games

     
    CharisVik likes this.
  13. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    The next episode of D-60 has been released. This week focused mostly on character artwork.

     
    CharisVik likes this.
  14. CharisVik

    CharisVik

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Posts:
    77
    The videos are really fun to watch :D

    Thank you for taking the time to post!
     
  15. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Thanks for the feedback. I was a little worried about the overtly and cartoonishly egotistical presentation but then I figured "Screw it. Let's just try it and see". I hope the future episodes will be just as entertaining!
     
    CharisVik likes this.
  16. YourPST_Studios

    YourPST_Studios

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Posts:
    13
    I will admit, I was shocked to see you scrapped the first design. It was lovely. I love your additional design even more but the original had a very familiar feel to it. I am not sure how old you are but I remember a game on Sega Saturn called Loaded (Also, Re-Loaded) that had that same look and feel to your game. Very fun game. Your new work looks great. I love the art design and the feel of it. Gives me that dungeon crawler type of vibe. Diablo-esque if you will. Keep up the good work.
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  17. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Never played Loaded but I vaguely remember hearing about it. Looking at footage of it, the game reminds me of Smash TV, which in fact was a source of inspiration!

    It's interesting that you mention Diablo since the original concept was in fact supposed to be a dungeon crawler and my principle design philosophy was, 'Diablo with Laser Guns'. Once I realized I wasn't going to have time to do it all I started cutting back the content. Without the content I had to scrap the randomizer. Once that was gone, the left over gameplay just wasn't interesting anymore as it involved running down hallways holding the shoot button without thinking. Luckily, a single pixel-art image I found on the net one day inspired me to change my concept to, 'Double Dragon with Laser Guns' and I haven't looked back since!
     
  18. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    A new making of video is up!



    Also - some screenies!

    screenshot 02.PNG
    screenshot 03.PNG screenshot 04.PNG screenshot 01.PNG
     
    JamesArndt and CharisVik like this.
  19. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    The latest devlog has been posted and I've finally included some new animated screenshots as well!



    2.gif
    1.gif 3.gif 4.gif

    I should have a playable demo available on itch.io very soon - aiming for the middle of this week!
     
    CharisVik likes this.
  20. YourPST_Studios

    YourPST_Studios

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Posts:
    13
    Make sure you post a link here. I would love to give this game a whirl.
     
  21. Marrt

    Marrt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Posts:
    613
    http://wakeof.net/wop.zip
     
  22. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    As Marrt mentioned above, here is a temporary link to download a rough demo of the game. Once I get something setup on twitch I'll be removing this link and will repost the new link at that time.

    http://wakeof.net/wop.zip

    Also, here is a new video! This time I've gone for a more candid approach.
     
    CharisVik likes this.
  23. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    A lot of long-standing things have been fixed over the last few days and I'm quite relieved to check them off the list (some of them have been there since last fall!)

    I finally fixed the falling animations for players, fixed another issue with jumping while on slopes (which I didn't even know existed until today), implemented different speeds for weapons based on manual or automatic triggers (thanks @Marrt for the suggestion!) and projectile of dead entities now flicker for a time before disappearing. I've also started whiteboxing a few more levels.

    The following videos some whietboxing as well as where I finally attempt to fix the falling animations of player characters. While you don't see it resolved in this video due to time I did finally get it fixed - and fixed another bug along the way!


    Speed Dev of Level 2


    Speed Dev of Level 2 Pt 2


    Candid Dev Video
     
    CharisVik and Marrt like this.
  24. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Been really pushing to get the game in a fully functional state and really polish off the last few features. The menu system is complete and I've added several new niceties like particle effects for bullet strikes and footsteps to give the game more life. I've also found a source of music to use for the game.

    I spent a day re-assessing the visual style of the game and decided that I started to stray too far from the concept I had in mind when I came up with this. Luckily, it was mostly just a day of tweaking scene lighting and material colors and pallets to get things right. 80's neon lights are in full effect now baby!

    Last but not least - I have the official Alpha Demo avaiable on itch.io! Check it out now!
    https://sluggy.itch.io/wake-of-poseidon

    wop  (10).png wop  (19).png wop  (10).png wop  (5).png
     
    CharisVik likes this.
  25. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Finally made a proper title screen and animated banner.
    Animated Title.gif
     
    Starpaq2 likes this.
  26. Marrt

    Marrt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Posts:
    613
    Tested it!
    Nice, you added projectile shadows, world space collisions, cooldown for weapons and your default gun has auto.
    Now you need to think about gameplay, these are the times i didn't feel joy during playing:

    1. Enemies still have so much health that i feel oblidged to manual trigger the default gun's shots in order to kill them fast.
    Probable solution ( probable because you can only know if smth. works after trying it ):
    - increase the dmg of the default gun (+50% or smth.)
    - add an energy meter to the default gun
    - the meter has 2 units of heat, each shot adds adds 1 unit of heat and the meter cools down by 3 units per second
    - automatic fire rate is 180 bpm (3 per second, slightly less than you have now), so the gun cools down completely before the next shot happens when firing automatically
    - manual firerate is 20 per Second, so the player might increases the heat meter above it's maximum by manual triggering only
    - now the TWIST:
    - when the meter is full it stays full for 0.5s, and the next shot does quadrupple dmg and is larger and faster

    Now you have some kind of combo on your gun and you can decide if you want a short burst of dmg with a cooldown after the last shot or just normal dps. This essentially adds an valueable option to your combat and combat needs options in order to be engaging



    2. Because of the world space collisions, dodging bullets is to easy now. If you just make bullets faster the game wont get harder, you need different types, so people need to adapt when entering a combat situation. As of now all i need to do is run in circles and shoot. If enemies require different reactions when they attack, the game would challenge in an interesting way
    Probable solution:
    - slightly increase speed of bullets
    - add enemy class that has a very fast single bullet with a telegraph of 0.75s before they shoot
    - add enemy class with lobbed projectiles
    - add enemy class that uses a mainained beam that they try to slowly rotate towards you, so you need cover or jump
    - add enemy class that has a slow but large nrg projectile (make sure the wall collider-hitbox is small but the player collider is large, so slightly touching the edge of a wall will not destroy this projectile)

    Now you can mix these types and create dynamic situations for the player to overcome. This also allows you to spawn less enemies, so groups don't feel like mindless damage-sponges anymore


    3. Pickups don't matter
    When picking up a weapon i don't feel thrilled. They only last one life and i might have only one point of health left as it appears, so its basically wasted. Also they are tied to the level-design so when i die in a hard battle i am stuck with the default gun for sure. Also, killing enemies does only reward you by letting you progress, so loosing the cool gun in a hard battle really feels like you feel into a trap of dmg-sponges with no option to make it different.
    Probable solution:
    - Enemies drop Weapons occasionally
    - After testing this, see if it would be cool if weapons had limited ammo (i am torn on that), this way you could add really op weapons

    - Also i played in windowed mode and it lost focus several times, do you use CursorLockMode.Confined?

    I hope i don't sound patronizing. This game is awesome so far, i just try to describe explicitly when a specific moment during gaming is not enjoyable for me. Apart from the above problems, i absolutely like where they game is headed
     
  27. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    @Marrt Thanks for the input! You're opinions are very helpful.

    1) I've been in tweekers hell with the default weapon for a long time. The smaller guys have around 100 units of health and I've tried everything from 10 to 17 damage per hit with that gun! Hahaha! I like your idea. I think to effective communicate it to the player I need additional graphical effects and sounds so they know it is doing more damage. I had considered something similar but opposite in direction: The gun starts with a full meter that replenishes rather quickly (one or so seconds) and rapidly firing reduces its meter and damage output. I think I like your idea better though since it promotes more aggressive play.

    2) The game definitely got easier with the change the world space collisions. Thanks for the tip on that btw. But don't worry. I have *lots* of enemies that aren't in the game yet. Just been saving them for later levels. I don't want to introduce too many at the start since I want each level to build on the previous. Let's just say stuff will get pretty wild and 'bullet-helly' ;)

    3) Hmm I'm glad you mentioned this because I didn't even notice that players might not care about stuff they'd loose very quickly. I'm not sure how I'll address this just yet but I do have a random weapon drop system in place that's just disabled since it was hard to balance. Maybe I'll give it another go. Though I have to say I prefer the cool-down mechanic over limited ammo either way.

    P.S Thanks for the tip on the cursor. I didn't think to do that since I've been playing on gamepad for the most part.

    [Edit] I just thought of something for the weapons. What if players earn tokens that they can spend during play to have a weapons air-dropped in?
     
  28. Marrt

    Marrt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Posts:
    613
    That might break my imagined immersion of the game a bit, i thought you are a lone renegade entering a bastion of poseidon. When you could get an airdrop anytime it would feel like you had some sort of base somewhere that is aware that you are on this mission and could drop airsmth. for you in anytime anyplace.
    Since they could just have airdropped you in front of the final boss anyway you would think that you are just there to clear out the enemies instead of breaking into a fortress. Breaking into a fortress sounds way cooler than clearing the area.

    If you introduce a menu for weapon selection you would add a lot of input stuff. I would rather go with switchable weapons, ammo and weapon keep after that instead of introducing a buy convoluted buy system, i am not sure
     
  29. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    I think I mis-communicated the intent. I meant killing some many enemies (say, 25 for example) gives players a token. This token can be spent during play by the press of a button (perhaps the up/down/left/right buttons on the crosspad) and a weapon would be dropped in according to the button pressed.

    As it is now, I'm tinkering with an idea whereby enemies drop weapons. Picking up successive versions of the same weapon upgrades it. Picking up a different weapon starts you at upgrade level 1 or that weapon. Dying looses you an upgrade level. Not sure if I like it though. I want all items to have equal strength and value comes through situations present and personal play style.
     
  30. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    I've pushed some new updates to the demo at itch.io. They include a mostly-finished version of the second level, a highly refined version of the first level and several small but important changes. There is also a MacOS build!

    One of the newest changes is that baddies now don't target the player while they are jumping. That is - they target the player's position at ground level while they are airborn.

    Before, it looked like this. The player would jump around and the baddies would aim up at them. This caused problems where the player would have a very tough time using the jump as an evasion tool
    Detection Before.gif

    Now it's more like this. The player's detection box remains on the ground where they would land (within a certain range anyway).
    Detection After.gif


    This allows for the player to much more effectively dodge bullets by jumping without having the visual clutter of some bullets traveling at different trajectories than others.
    Detection Results.gif


    In other news, I've really started working on presentation quality and refinement rather than new content since I'll be looking for some form of funding in the near future to help me finish this project. This will include building a website and setting up (*shudders*) a bunch of social media profiles. Sadly this will detract from core development for now but I'm hopeful that in short time I'll be able to get back at full-scale content creation. I'm really liking the way things are turning out and I feel like I'm finally at a point code/technology wise where I can commit fully to asset and content creation!
     
  31. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    So after my push to get a working demo out by August 1st, I took a much needed break. I was really starting to burn out plus I was starting to have doubts about certain design elements of the game. After a break and some light work I came up with a few solutions I'm happy with. I'm ready to get back into the swing of things once again!

    The biggest change was the control system. It needed changing. I was trying to go for a classic beat 'em up style game but it just wasn't catching on. After a lot of hemming and hawing I finally bit the bullet and turned WoP into a twin-stick shooter. While I think it lost some of its originality and clean interface I can say that it was the right way to go. People are much less frustrated with the controls now and I'm finding previously off-limits designs (such as large enemies in the top-center of a static screen) are now viable.

    As well I added a couple new weapons and a rudimentary super-attack system that is ready to be expanded upon.

    As usual, you can follow the link below to try out the latest build of the game.
    https://sluggy.itch.io/wake-of-poseidon
     
  32. ToshoDaimos

    ToshoDaimos

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Posts:
    679
    You are about as indie as it gets. ;)
     
    JamesArndt likes this.
  33. Marrt

    Marrt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Posts:
    613
    Nice, played through it, first with with mouse and keyboard, then with gamepad

    - I agree that the special needs to be changed, since you are rooted, loose your current gun, and if projectiles are on their way to hit you exactly after the special, you get hit (i guess)

    - i received a flame thrower at the first obstacle that needed to be shot. i knew that i can get rid of the thrower with the special ability, but this should not happen, i would turn off drops before that point

    - Moving platforms mostly serve no purpose other than making you wait for them, no one will fail those jumps (except for impatience... like i do ) so it is not really a challenge. Introduce them once, then incorporate them into encounters because as "sole obstacles" they are inferior.
    You can also place some damaging objects in their path so you need to evade them as the platform travels

    - I like the current projectile shadows, although they are invisible on the black background. You could try one additional thing that really hammers the bullet-hell visibility home: mark the player-avatar's critical height (the height at which most projectiles are thrown) with something glowing, like a chest armor or a Iron-Man-heart, so when doing bullet-hell-dodging you always know: That glowing part must not overlap with projectiles

    - Just my preference: the charg-up gun is a nice addition, i am just not sure about the twinstick implementation, because you have to release the stick in order to shoot, i never missed because of that but i always prefer a dedicated trigger button in general.

    - i really like the arcing projectiles, gives you another layer of prediction you have to do in your mind when evading attacks, especially if the start from an elevated position

    - Reticle (Crosshair): Hide it when the stick is resting, there is no need to show it then. Increase its magnitude and opaqueness softly with the magnitude of the stick, really helps with control feedback and everything feels smoother
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  34. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Hi again Martt! Thanks once again for the input.

    To reply in no particular order:

    -I agree with your sentiment about the reticle. It's already done in a working build (along with smoothing motion tweens and animated rotation). I literally added it in minutes before a uploading for a live streamer to play so it was still a bit rough.

    -Weapon drops and obstacles are still a big issue. I'd rather have a general-purpose solution that doesn't let me paint myself into a corner with accidentally impassible obstacles due to RNG. At this point I'm looking in to re-enabling some very old code that allows the player to swap between two weapons. I'm thinking that the default pistol should always be available just to avoid situations like this as well as provide a solid, staple weapon that is available at all times. Any thoughts?

    -For the most part several of the super attacks will root the player simply due to the way I animated them, however the player is technically supposed to be invulnerable for up to a second or two after the root ends. You probably were experiencing a bug that has since been fixed. (Previously, overlapping 'invulnerable' effects with countdown timers could accidentally reset the invincible state).

    -The implementation of the charge-shot was a tough one but overall I'm mostly happy with the result. It's intuitive and consistent with the others. I have yet to hear anyone ask me 'which button makes this gun shoot?' Also, there is a limit to how many keys a USB keyboard can have pressed at a time. If a player chooses to shoot with the arrow keys rather than the mouse (some really prefer it so I left that feature in) then adding another shoot button becomes ergonomically taxing and often bumps up against the key-press limit.


    Overall I'm really feeling like the core systems are just about nailed down here. I'd like to get these last few gameplay elements tightened up (along with the graphics on level three ;), maybe add in a very rudimentary cut-scene to explain the story a bit and then it's probably time to start... dun dun duuuun... marketing and looking for funding.
     
  35. JamesArndt

    JamesArndt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Posts:
    2,932
    Gave this is a quick 5-minute playthrough to see what it was all about. I have some insights from own personal opinion, so take that for what it's worth. I knew nothing about your game ahead of time, so I came into like a gamer who just bought it and had a first go at it. Right away the menu stole my mouse cursor away and I couldn't see it for the life of me. I had my hand on that left mouse button ready to go. After some struggling, I figured out the menu would only be selectable by keyboard. This was pretty frustrating. Secondly, the mouse issue was exacerbated while playing. Since it didn't work in the menu I figured it wouldn't function in the game, so I played the first few minutes with my keyboard and it was a clunky experience. The control scheme was very foreign. I expected the standard types of input, a spacebar press to fire, etc. I also expected to be able to move with the arrow keys or WASD, but turns out the arrow keys did the firing as well. Had me a bit confused. I did figure out the left mouse button would fire and that was excellent. That's the standard type of input you'd expect. However, it appeared to be bugged. I could only move the reticle around while firing! Oh, that was an awful experience. In a game that is so fast paced, it's extremely important that I can swing that reticle around at all times and very quickly. I need to be able to see exactly where it's pointing BEFORE I fire, not only at the moment I fire. It's an unfamiliar and unsettling experience. My suggestion would be to improve the input and controls in these respects.

    Now the good stuff. I'm very impressed with the "feel" you have nailed so far in regard to the action. It's really well done: Attacks feel powerful, everything kicks around when I fire, the camera feels pretty good, lots of feedback on impacts. The enemies feel powerful and challenging, almost to the point of being too challenging at first. I don't think they are overpowered, I think it goes back to myself not being able to react quickly enough due to the clunky input and controls. You have something special in the feel of playing this game. Even in a demo state like this, it feels fast, energetic and powerful. These are hard to nail for a lot of people, it's almost like a voodoo magic you have to find over lots of iteration. So keep doing whatever you're doing in that regard. My last critique or suggestion would be in the level design itself. The game is very fast paced (good thing as we have short attention spans), so I spend my time hauling ass to the next bridge or area. Some of your areas or bridges only appear once you're right on top of them and I found myself running headlong into a canyon or emptiness. Maybe try to give a "tell" or clue to the player visually that a bridge is going to spawn in a spot...it could be a flashing light somewhere by the location, a particle spawning there, the earth cracking in that spot...not sure, just some kind of visual "tell" to the player that hints or gives my eyes focus on that spot ahead of time. When a game is so fast paced like this you have to give the player the ability to plan ahead a few seconds. Overall thumbs up so far, keep at it and this could be a very solid game for you to commercially sell on Steam, GOG, Steam or any portal. Heck I'd say with enough polish on it and some improvements Microsoft or Sony might like to see a demo of this for their platform.

    Lastly, I also have a demo I want to launch on itch.io as I really like the platform. I was wondering if you know of a way to create a downloadable installer for your game? I don't like Unity's way of doing things with the .exe file, the .dll file and data folder all coming outside of that ZIP somewhere. It just seems unprofessional for a commercial game and I wish Unity would provide a way to create an .exe file by itself that works as an installer. I guess this has zero to do with itch.io, but I was curious if you've looked into that for yourself? I would like to have my game downloadable on there as a simple installer file if it's even possible.
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  36. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Hey! Thanks for the input! A lot of good things to consider.

    I did want to mention that in defense of the control scheme, it was designed first and foremost with a controller in mind so getting feature parity with mouse and keyboard has been quite tricky. That being said, using the wasd for movement and arrow keys to shoot is actually a pretty common way to do things and was recommended to me by several others before I finally implemented (the old system was a press-button-to-shoot setup and no one liked that). I think this might genuinely be a case 'you can't make everybody happy all the time' but nonetheless I'm glad you mentioned it because I'd rather be aware of such issues and see what kind of tweaks I can do to improve things.

    I've noticed when watching streamers and videos that many others also fall off the cliff when nearing the bridges. Think I'm just going to remove them. It's a neat mechanic that I'd like to use in a boss fight but I feel like using them in a level like that is just slow and clunky.

    Difficulty is something I'm finding hard to nail down for sure. Some people get it right away and fly through the levels, others really struggle a lot, and many are somewhere in the middle. Maybe I need a difficulty system that affects things like projectile speed and enemies spawned?

    For installers I think the most common way is to use a separate program. Nullsoft (the guys that made WinAmp famous) have a really nice program called Nullsoft Scriptable Installer that allows you to package everything up and provide an installation wizard. However, I'd suggest caution. I know many people that visit sites like itch.io actually prefer a simple zip with the files inside. They like to know what files are going where. It's more work but you might consider providing both an installer version as well as a zip file version.

    If you are interested, I have a slightly updated version of the game that has several super-attacks implemented for one of the characters. If you plan to do a video soon let me know and I'll upload the latest version so you can see some of the awesomeness that is utter destruction of robot armies ;)
     
    JamesArndt likes this.
  37. Marrt

    Marrt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Posts:
    613
    Hmm, maybe you should't do the shootable activator on the other side of the bridge in general. That thing works in Hyperlight Drifter, where you need to find them and aim at them in order to enable a hidden bridge. In your game they don't really add anything and since you target gamepads now, i would retire this idea totally. If you still want something for map-variety, add an activator in front of the bridge, when hitting it the bridge elements appear in series but will disappear after a short time. WHY?

    Because this can then be used for gameplay later on:
    Long temporary bridges that force the player to move along, so you can essentially create passages of sidescroll-shooters where the game dictates the speed for a period. Really changes up the game. Just make sure that the camera pans perfectly so the left most bridge element disappears while the right most is just introduced as it comes into view, so the player knows: i cannot go too much left or right now.


    Very thoughtful of you!
    I have 2 games were this is constantly an issue on my programming keyboard, i can't press W+Shift+Space for Battlerite or Ctrl+Shift+W+Space in Warframe (although they changed the requirement for the parkour combo recently so it is not a big issue enymore)
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  38. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    So I've pushed yet another update!

    There's not much new in the way of content. Same old levels. However, quite a few system changes have taken place. First up, players now always have the pistol available even after picking up a second weapon, and can swap to it any time with the press of a button. What's more, both characters now have three unique super attacks that can be used to devastating effect! I've also prettied up some graphics and given a lot of the effects a bunch of pizzazz. As well there were a bunch of minor bug fixes (including a few for two-player) that were taken care of.

    I'm actually really excited about this super attacks. Currently the system is a bit weird - the player gains a level each time they grab a weapon, higher levels will execute a stronger super when the button is pressed, then the level is reset to zero. I'm really starting to think I should shift focus towards this super-attack system. Perhaps a meter that builds with each strike to an enemy and slowly dissipates when nothing is hit. This would urge players to be more aggressive. It would also help balance some of the weapons more. The big-shot rifle hits hard but would build meter very slowly, whereas the tiny machine-gun could build meter very easily because it does so little damage. Even the pistol would have a practical use here! I'm even considering reviving the idea of a between-levels 'shop' where players could spend points earned from kills to upgrade/swap around/purchase new super attacks.

    Finally, after all this tweaking and testing and balancing I was starting to feel a little bored with the game, so I made a quick encounter with a ludicrous assortment of enemies. Not only was it a good challenge, I found it very inspiring. I'll certainly have to try to push the player's limits like this in later portions of the game. If anyone reading this is inclined to - there is a way to access these scene. Simply open the console by pressing '~' and then type 'ls Trailer 04' and press enter. Some of the UI bugs out for some reason but everything else should work fine.
     
  39. oriongu

    oriongu

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Posts:
    7
    It looks great Sluggy. Keep it up! :)
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  40. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    And yet another update has been pushed!
    https://sluggy.itch.io/wake-of-poseidon

    I fixed a few more bugs and made some system changes as well!

    For starters, the player's z-axis movement is now scaled based on the angle of the camera so players now appear to move the same speed vertically as they do horizontally. They're actually moving faster vertically so it can be a bit odd when moving down long vertical halls but that's pretty infrequent.

    A slight bug in some code that applied an outline when players where invulnerable caused me to find a new effect for characters that makes them pop quite a bit from the background. All characters now have a blackoutline. While I miss some of the painterly feel of the no-outline version, the new version is definitely easier to see and makes everything a little more cartoony.

    Finally, the super-meter system has been implemented! Meter is now built by striking enemies with attacks and each attack has it's own profile for how quickly it build meter. Also, each character has slightly different properties now. Argos builds meter slower but has a longer invulnerable state when using supers wheras Nyx builds meter faster but looses the invulnerable almost immediately. I think this will play into the defensive/offensive roles I had in mind for each character. Think I might need to tweak Argos some more though as a slightly longer invulnerable state isn't nearly as useful as faster meter building.

    As usual, you can check out the latest build at the following itch link
    https://sluggy.itch.io/wake-of-poseidon
     
  41. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Got some more feedback on the game. This one definitely shines a light on some of the biggest and most glaring issues with the design so far - the perspective.



    I've been struggling with how to handle the flat perspective for quite a while now and I think with many of the other issues being cleaned up, this is now becoming the biggest and most obvious issue. It's also a potential game-killer in my opinion so I need to sit down and have a good think.

    There are two main ways I see I can deal with this. The first is to simply design scenarios in a way that everything happens on a flat plane and perspective doesn't come into play very much, the other is to come up with systemic solution. The problem with the first is that I feel taking away the three-dimensionality would really cut down on the game's biggest selling point... the three-dimensionality! The second way is something I've tried in the past when playing with screen-space vs world-space collisions and I'm not sure if such a one-size-fits-all solution even exists.

    No matter where I go with this, I've definitely got to figure something out and soon.

    *Assumes the chin-scratching posture*
     
    GarBenjamin likes this.
  42. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    Another update has been pushed to itch.io! A large portion of the work was under the hood with system changes, fixes, and tech features that had been on my todo list since forever ago. I'm very happy to say I've finally checked off pretty much every major bug/feature wishlist item on my todo list and things are really feeling like the are in a solid state.

    I've also addressed many of the issues mentioned int eh video posted above: Things like feedback, bullet shape, enemy properties have all been adjusted and tweaked. As well, I've changed the way some of the enemy attack patterns work as well as the layout of some of the more frustrating fight scenes.

    In terms of gameplay, not much has changed visibly. Aside from the improved damage feedback I *did* finally add an air dash as a means of dodging enemy fire. Many had suggested a dodge of some kind and once I went full-on twin-stick I felt that such a maneuver was needed as well. Also enemies now have the ability to use their own super attacks (though currently, only one does - a shield they can hide behind). Perhaps the biggest change however is the inclusion of a difficulty setting. I'm happy to know that I'll now be able to have both the accessibility available for less skilled players as well as a true challenge for die-hards.

    While the demo is very nearly complete at this point I still have some work left. The difficulty levels still needs adjusting and there are a few minor bugs with UI elements and the shield-guys staying invulnerable longer than the should. Perhaps most disappointing is that I've dropped Level 2 from the build for now since it became badly broken and the level of polish was lacking compared to the first level. I also want to add a boss fight just for the sake of giving the complete package of a vertical slice. Along with that, maybe a quick cut-scene explaining some backstory. Once all of that is taken care of I think I'll officially call it quits on the demo and start the long process of the raw content needed for the full game.
     
    GarBenjamin likes this.
  43. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Posts:
    7,441
    Looks interesting and this Jonas gave some awesome feedback that seems very accurate. All the way from challenges of determining positions of objects particularly bullets to the USP. Can't beat this kind of feedback.

    I do agree the perspective is very cool. That is what made me check out the thread. I've seen countless TSS that seem to be the same thing same exact view and mechanics just different graphics & sounds. Yours is innovative in perspective and level design so great job on that.

    Looking forward to seeing where you go from here.
     
  44. Nlim

    Nlim

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Posts:
    40
    Gave the alpha a spin.
    Gotta say the gifs here make your game look way worse than it is in action.

    The music and style gave me oddly enough a Nitronic Rush vibe despite being quite the different game. Love how the different weapons feel, the frantic gameplay and the power-up style of weapon pick ups.
    Some minor nitpicks though:
    1.) The deaths on falling of a cliff. They mostly seem to just punish a newer player while randomly annoying more experienced ones - personally I prefer systems which only damage the player instead of giving out insta deaths for slightly slipping on the controlls.
    2.) The first pit you have to dash over. I just ran straight into it and than wasn´t sure if I bugged out the game since the wall was almost low enough to jump over while the path back up looked to me like some foreground decorations. It didn´t take too long to figure out but I can see someone getting seriously stuck here.
    3.) In "arena" mode the player can run outside of the view of the camera. Might just be an issue with different resolutions but it makes fighting on the edge of the camera kinda confusing.
    4.) Mouse&Keyboard controlls have already been mentioned. I do hope that you plan to rework them properly once you find the time since the game should work fine with those for the most part. Superficially it seems like removing the autotargeting and allowing instant rectical movement should already be enough - only targeting flying enemies may need a more elaborate solution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  45. Sluggy

    Sluggy

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Posts:
    960
    So I had to take some time off development due to general life stuff (stupid life, always needing livin') but now I'm back at it full force! I'll be streaming daily from midnight to 2am on twitch.

    You can find me here https://www.twitch.tv/jcsluggy

    Feel free to pop in and say hi anytime!
     
    Marrt and RavenOfCode like this.