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Windows 10 solitaire has ads. Implications for future gaming.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tomnnn, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    Some of you should have heard about this by now. For some modes for solitaire for windows 10 there are ads unless you pay a [cheap] monthly subscription.

    In the future, will unity support running ads on computer games? :)

    How many of you would let your games be paid free with ads on steam?
     
  2. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Well there goes my incentive to upgrade...
     
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  3. calmcarrots

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    Man I hate how Microsoft operates. They are so money hungry. They just HAVE to have 5 different versions of an operating system. They HAVE to have ads on their simple games. They HAVE to force you to rebuy an entire operating system just to fix a registry error. Not only these, but they literally charge you for everything. They are greedy with their money and it pisses me off. I can't do anything with MS without forcing me to pay them something. Their practices are horrid. No wonder why Apple is growing so fast... and I hope to join the OSX community very soon.
     
  4. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    I think Apple is growing because of the pixel density of their displays. Our generation cares about graphics above all else, and even plain text looks amazing on OSX. Even my 2012 retina mbp is pretty to look at.

    I'd think the EULA would be what puts off most early adopters until pirates can get around the keylogging and forced upgrades.

    Unity [eventually] coming to linux will be awesome. Some linux-y friends of mine want to get back into game dev and unity is the least intimidating engine that isn't gamemaker.
     
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  5. calmcarrots

    calmcarrots

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    They do make some amazing displays!
    And a working os......
     
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  6. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    I'm waiting for people to find ways around the annoyances before I upgrade. Worst case though I don't see DirectX 12 being a necessity for quite some time so I can simply stay on Windows 7.
     
  7. Kiwasi

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    Yup. I've learned the hard way not to upgrade a Microsoft product until you see the term "service pack".
     
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  8. minionnz

    minionnz

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    Well, I just received a free upgrade to Windows 10 :)
     
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  9. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    How many Linux distros are there now? :p
     
  10. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

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    I don't think it's new to Windows 10. Solitaire had ads since Windows 8.

    However, would you really call solitaire a real desktop game? Ads fit such games, and there are multiple games on the store that use ads. It's not much different to how mobile market operates.
     
  11. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Many of us don't acknowledge the existence of that operating system :)
     
  12. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    In general I think the sentiment is the fear people have for ads in their AAA games. I doubt we'll see this much (sure some will experiment) but ads tend to conflict with a premium experience. If you are selling your game for $40 plus the last thing you want to do is anger your audience. At the $10 or free pricepoint sure, but not high end products.

    This is not to say that they won't advertise, in fact the sports franchises do it already, NBA 2K advertises sprite and sprint, on billboards in the background or on the halftime show (which you can skip). Very few people object to these because they don't interfere with gameplay at all. Premium games will be very protective of their IP because people shelling out that kind of money demand respect. Maybe we'll even see some games go hybrid with a high cost and a low cost ad supported option. In the end the market will dictate what is acceptable. The high end steam games will probably never see ads in a majority of games. Casual games or low cost games (steam or elsewhere) will of course be monetized through ads and other methods after all that's why they are low cost.

    To be honest, I find IAP in game currencies to be more annoying than ads personally and some AAA titles are toying with this idea as well (same example). At the end of the day it's a business and they will try and make money. People will always play what is fun. If you want to change businesses mind then you have to vote with your pocketbook.
     
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  13. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    To be fair the "new" solitaire is a a lot more advanced than the old versions (<= W7). It's set of multiple types of solitaires with challenges and tasks which of none had ads for me while playing em during installing stuff after clean install. I could see only the ads in some menus where you selected a challenge to play or etc.
     
  14. elmar1028

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    Me too :D I think we are special to MS!!
     
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  15. pk_Holzbaum

    pk_Holzbaum

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    The last Microsoft service I paid for was Office 365. I'm very happy with Windows 10 so far and I'm changing more and more stuff to Microsoft. I changed from Dropbox to Google Drive to OneDrive. Changed from Evernote to OneNote. And I'm very happy with all these decisions.
    In the last 10 years I paid around 200$ to Microsoft (Student License for Office365). That's not very much.
    And yes, I know that they collect my data. As does Apple, Google and every big company around.
     
  16. Kiwasi

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    I like the fact that these guys have data on me. It makes searchin more efficient. It makes advertising more relevant. It's nice that Google knows the way home if I ever get lost or forget where home is.

    My only complaint is they don't have enough data. YouTube keeps trying to sell me cars.
     
  17. greggtwep16

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    My biggest annoyance is that out of ads on webpages, they always think I'm in the market to buy the very thing I bought yesterday. I mean that should be trivial to add to their algorithm, if the item is not consumable you should probably take that out of the list to display to me.
     
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  18. Ryiah

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    Next time I need to search before I post rather than after. I found solutions and answers to my concerns, so I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade. It took less time than I expected, but most of it was trying not to get lost in the menus.
     
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  19. Tomnnn

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    It's impossible to count because some friends of mine in college were making their own lol.

    Well I'm glad to hear its not impossible to shove ads into desktop games.

    That must be nice. The few ads I see are always totally random.
     
  20. Kiwasi

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    Most of my ads are around learning to code and develop websites. Occasionally I actually click on one.
     
  21. kanga

    kanga

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    I would sure! But only the ones that have been mentioned like real car models, billboards, tv sets that kind of thing. The really annoying blinking ads you get at the bottom of a free android game,... never ek, I always switch to flight mode when I see those. I understand why those ads are there, people should be paid for what they make.
     
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  22. LaneFox

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    There are so many things that dumbfound me in this thread...
    • Solitare has ads
    • People care if Solitare has ads
    • People play Solitare
    • People PAY to play Solitare
    • People didn't know there are ads in PC games
     
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  23. Hikiko66

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    Solitaire is basically a "mobile" game, and you can probably thank apple for making ads a default on these types of lowest common denominator games.
     
  24. landon912

    landon912

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    Microsoft gives Window 10 free.

    Everyone complains about a 80x40 banner ad on a FREE game.

    Good job guys.
     
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  25. elmar1028

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    Hope it's better than Windows 8
     
  26. arcticferret26

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    I would release a lot of free games with ads on Steam. Kinda like the freemium games that fill the App Store:)
     
  27. Dustin-Horne

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    You know, some people will always just find something to complain about. Personally, I haven't even launch solitaire since Windows XP and I didn't even realize it didn't ship with Windows 8 until recently. That being said, the version that ships with Windows 10 is their ultra premium whatever package. It used to cost money to get that version but now it's free ad supported. If you don't like the ads, pay to remove them. It's still more than you ever got before.

    I'm personally less excited about Microsoft's Wi-Fi sharing. It doesn't share the password itself, but the problem is if my friend with windows 10 comes over and I give them my wi-fi password, they can share it with people I don't care to have on my network. And the answer to this? Add "_optout" to your SSID *facepalm*.

    That being said, I upgraded to Windows 10 on day 2 of release and I'm loving it. So far it's solid and considerably faster than Windows 8.1 was (which was in turn faster than Windows 7). I don't use some of the new features personally, such as the multi-desktop, but I'm happy with what's there. Cortana integration is pretty good, the revamped start menu is good, modern apps now being windowed is good. Most of all, one thing I was frustrated with was crashes in The Witcher 3. When on Windows 8.1 it would occasionally lockup and a hard reset was necessary (this used to happen with Fallout 3 as well). With Windows 10 I've only had it hard lock once, but Windows 10 managed to kill the process and popup a system notification telling me it was a faulting video driver with no need for me to reboot. Seems to me like it is more fault tolerant.
     
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  28. thxfoo

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  29. Dustin-Horne

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    Except all of these things are optional. You don't have to use cortana and you don't have to participate in the update share stuff. It's not like you have to do any crazy registry hacks, you just click the toggle switches and you're done. I've turned off just about everything including use of my advertising ID (which was also present in Windows 8 / 8.1 by the way). I do, however, use Cortana... already use it on my phone and I'm ok with it using my data to provide personalized results.

    If I did have on criticism though, it's the disconnected nature of the privacy settings. Microsoft really should have one "Privacy Settings" screen where you can toggle all of these on and off along with better descriptions of what each setting is.

    Edit: Nevermind - they already have a Privacy section in Settings.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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  30. thxfoo

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    Yes, but just the stuff you know about.

    Note that the EULA got weaker and weaker with respect to your rights. So with the newest incarnation they can basically steal all your stuff. You agreed to it when you read the document and clicked 'yes'.

    Happy sharing...
     
  31. thxfoo

    thxfoo

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    My god, why??? You really have a windows phone???
     
  32. Dustin-Horne

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    Now it's starting to sound like a conspiracy theory. What are the things I don't know about? Or are you just assuming there are some. And more importantly, is it anything more than Google and Apple collect?

    I do and I like it. My wife has an Android phone which is also very nice and she loves it but I stick with mine. Of the phones I've tried it seems to be the only one that's actually good at doing the one thing I care about in a phone... actually calling someone.
     
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  33. thxfoo

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    In the EULA you basically allow them to take your data. If they do now or later or never is the other question. But you have no right to complain later if you say yes to that now.

    Google, Apple: My PCs are Linux, so no problem there (except one WIndows 7 dual boot, but it has no real data). My phone is Android in theory, but I just use the Android kernel with Linux installed over it. I care about my data/privacy... (Ok, I also have standard Android phone, but too no interesting data on it)
     
  34. Dustin-Horne

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    And pretty standard fare as far as a lot of EULAs go. In fairness, they should be more discerning about what they're doing with the data (and more open). They're taking the same criticism that Facebook and Google have taken the past (and Apple over the whole GPS collection fiasco) and it is deserved. That being said, so far they've shown that the collection and sharing is optional. Some day they may make it not optional, but that would be a death knell and I don't think they'd do that. If they did get too intrusive, then I would bail as well but I tend to try to give people and companies the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Facebook is a good example of this... I don't like Facebook but I use it. They are a little intrusive... they overstepped big time when they started using people's photos in ads but they saved face a bit when they allowed you to opt out.

    Verizon is another example. They collect all of your web traffic data unless you log into your account and disable it per line and if you renew / upgrade... you have to do it all over again... and it bothers me (just as the Windows 10 data collection bothers me), but it can be turned off. In Verizon's case it actually bothers me more because I actually pay a lot of money to use their service.

    Which is kind of my point. At least technical users have a choice. And it's not all about toggling buttons... if you want to use something else there are options available. It gets a bit harder for non-technical people and that's the rub. It bothers me that Win 10 turns all of that crap on by default because the average user really won't even know that it's happening. That being said, at least in the case of Cortana, I don't think the data is being used maliciously and I certainly don't think Microsoft is selling it to third parties. Though they may use it to improve their advertising services with indirectly benefits 3rd parties.
     
  35. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    I've never seen ads in pc games before.
     
  36. landon912

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  37. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    I like the bandwidth thing. Windows has the largest market share. If they're wasting random bandwidth with their bs, it'll become common practice, and we'll hopefully stay clear from tiered data plans. It's definitely not worth it for microsoft to lose quintillions in a lawsuit because a bug caused all users of their operating system to exceed their data caps by several gigs.
     
  38. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    At one point in Dungeons 2, which is a spiritual remake of Dungeon Keepers II, the narrator tells you to buy more of the company's games but does so in a thoroughly joking manner.
     
  39. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    I totally agree. Targeted advertising is a win for them and me.

    Though a downside (or funny side) is when you search for something not related to personal interest. A couple of years ago, I was creating some victorian houses for a game I was working on. I did a ton of searches for victorian houses, and particularly doll houses, mostly because they are very clean, not obstructed by tees, multiple angles, etc. To this day, I still see tons of ads for dollhouses in facebook, amazon, etc. A similar thing happened to me with hand-trucks.
     
  40. Master-Frog

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    They're in business and doing pretty well. They make a product that half the planet uses every day. Just saying, they're doing something right.
     
  41. thxfoo

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    It just starts with advertising:

    - you don't get a job because big data says there is 32% probability that you have a depression later in life, or because you have politically left ideas...
    - you get different prices in shops depending of what they think you are ready to pay
    - you don't get credit/insurance/citizenship/...
    - NSA considers you a terrorist because you are up late at night and know how a H-bomb works

    You may not have problem with what they do with your data today, but what about in 20 years? What you share today can bite you many years later...
     
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  42. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Fortunately I am not part of the tinfoil hat crowd. I am more concerned about things that are actually part the reality I live in, not an episode of TwilightZone/Outerlimits/Black Mirror. ;)
     
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  43. Master-Frog

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    By that logic, anyone intelligent enough is a danger to a free society... and we kind of already have some of this stuff. You can't get insurance if you have a certain health history, etc. Nothing you do is really private anymore. I don't think it's really tinfoil hat. No need to be alarmist, though. Just need to figure out a new set of ethics for the 21st century.
     
  44. thxfoo

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    That's not tinfoil hat stuff.

    I know people in big data. The stuff I describe is already done.

    A major problem is that the people buying/applying those tools don't understand what conditional probabilities mean.
    If you know the example with medical tests with 99% accuracy for conditions that are very rare. Many doctors think that if you are positive there is 99% certainty that you have it. For very rare conditions the probability that you really have it is below 1% even the test is positive.
    E.g. (an example with a not really rare condition):
    https://www.sindark.com/2010/04/27/doctors-and-conditional-probabilities/

    If you do the same example with more extreme numbers it gets even more fatal. And in big data you often have more extreme numbers.

    I know many people that hide their tracks on the internet. There is not so much knowledge needed, some basics are enough.
     
  45. Master-Frog

    Master-Frog

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    If you think you can hide your tracks, you don't understand the web well enough. At best, you can keep the exact details of your transactions obscured by encryption. It's like locking your stuff in a safe and saying nobody can ever open that safe. It's not true.
     
  46. Kiwasi

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    There are only a few people who have business knowing how a H-bomb works, and none of them need to use Google to find out. I'm not talking about the general principle, I'm talking about the detail. If you are trying to Google exact schematics for a bomb you deserve to be watched.
     
  47. landon912

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    Or you use the Tor network, but in that case, you're most likely a child predator or buying dope.

    Edit: Or Hydrogen bomb guides(yes, it's that bad in the deep web). My advice? Accept being tracked.
     
  48. Master-Frog

    Master-Frog

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    ...have to agree. Good example of ethics we can all live by going forward. If all information is freely available, then we can hold people accountable for the knowledge they possess. It doesn't have to be illegal to know how to build an a-bomb, but you shouldn't be able to order things from the internet. :p
     
  49. Master-Frog

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    C'mon... it's like rule #1 of information security. There's always a hole in your security. If you don't think there is, that just means someone will find it for you.



    Damn all those accursed tiny variations...
     
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  50. thxfoo

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    You can hide from 95% of data collecting ad networks by not letting the browser load those pages (ghostery, ad block, or custom rules for IT people). You can always surf in private mode. You can turn of cookies and javascript. Use different user names everywhere, never give your real name or birth date.

    Some simple measures protect you from most data collectors. Of course you cannot hide from all.

    E.g. if you sinkhole google analytics/ads and other google web monitoring stuff, google knows less about you.

    As IT guy you can do much more: VPNs and TOR (hide from your ISP), using different WLan in your area, different OS and browser,...

    Of course if you use your real name on Facebook I cannot help you...
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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