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Why Unity 5.0 is STILL a good deal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hippocoder, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. GMM

    GMM

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    The problem with Unity is not the initial 1500$ price for Pro, it is actually quite fair in terms of what you are getting, the 1500$ add-on price on the other hand is massively inflated and need to drop down considerably. I am currently using Unreal Engine 4 and i love the engine, it's really really good, but it does have some pretty major limitations when it comes to the blueprint system that made me change back to Unity for now.

    What i like about Unreal Engine 4 is that they give you EVERYTHING up front and with no limitations, i am not limited in my initial development for failing to have enough money to invest in an engine i am unsure if i will use in the end.

    This is where Unity's biggest problem emerge, they actively prohibit people from succeeding in creating the product they want to make by purposely limiting the feature set. The Pro features are for many a requirement to make certain projects work as intended, so having a relatively major pay wall barrier on these features will not help developers at all. Developers absolutely need to be able to access all aspects of Unity for free and only pay for the required licenses when they wish to ship a product, i am baffled by why this is not the case.

    This would essentially force more developers into relying on Pro only features and require them to purchase a license to publish. It's absolutely correct what Tim Sweeney said about their success relying on their user base succeeding.

    Now, the Free editions should still be around like usual, but it should be up to the developer to decide if they want to develop using Free or Pro features. The Pro trial gives us a watermark, why in the world can we not just have an unlimited trial since it's easy to spot trail builds?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  2. Mikie

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    You want see a good deal. Try Unreal engine 4. Plus, it is the best engine now.
     
  3. GMM

    GMM

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    I would not go as far to say that Unreal Engine 4 is the best development engine out there, it severely lacks in a number of areas that makes production much more time consuming.
     
  4. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    While I completely agree with you, the only way this can make much sense is if they abandon the outright paid version and go subscription. How else do they get people to upgrade? I mean this is only a problem near the end of the major version isn't it? Isn't Unity already adding nice toys each update?

    Just want to understand how it means Unity is entirely waterfall, as I don't think it is black and white.

    Is there a reason you're not using the 'best engine and the best deal'?
     
  5. Slyder

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    From what I have seen....UE4 tops even Unity5's announced feature set. I don't care about enlighten when I can get the same or better results without it. This goes double when you consider the Waterfall vs Agile argument.

    What will Unity5 ACTUALLY offer over UE4? UE4 made the first move. For all intents and purposes, UE4 is officially out 1 year+ before Unity5 will be. Unity is now forced to be reactive instead of proactive and they now have to release something that flat out beats UE4 AND at a better price...that's going to be hard.

    In my opinion, UE4 dev workflow is actually better than Unity. I LIKE the C++ way of doing things for the most part over C# (outside of project compilation). From an Art side, I have heard that it is easier to work with AND produce better results than Unity's systems (materials/animations/lighting/etc..)

    I do however, prefer these forums as they are more active and there's a lot more beginners here to help!
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  6. cannon

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    Just my 2 cents, I'm pretty sure if Unity 5 delivers on schedule quite a lot of people will move back in droves.
     
  7. Slyder

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    Why would they?

    SVOGI is most likely far too heavy for any actual game to fully utilize. Before you bring up Cryengine...only the Sun runs realtime GI.

    In actual practice, if you try to switch over to fully realtime GI, you end up with roughly 5ms overhead per movable object. At around 6 movable objects, you are out of system resources. If you notice, the Enlighten demo for Unity 5 was extremely simple...even more simple than UE4's realtime GI demo. The only scene with movable actors in the UE4 realtime GI demo had noticeable lag on a PC running @ 2TFLOPS on a $1000 video card.

    Nobody has any comprehension of how a game running fully realtime GI would perform outside of people who have tested it (not us folks who have only seen tech demos).

    This is literally the only thing that Unity5 has that UE4 doesn't...and I doubt it'll have any real impact on GAMING quality. Games look amazing as is without using Realtime GI...so why do we need it?

    Furthermore, due to the subscription nature of UE4, if this is ever a feature that is required of the market, or at any time it is feasible from a gameplay perspective, they will almost definitely add it back into the engine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  8. ImpossibleRobert

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    This is the second or third time I see somebody (or the same?) writing about waterfall vs. agile. Where do you get your facts from? These two are development methodologies. From an outside delivery perspective you cannot tell what method a development team internally uses. You can only observe it as a black box and see that they for example have certain delivery cycles. Unity has rougly 4 releases a year, Unreal from what I see every month. If you look around, typical cloud releases vary from weekly to 3 times a year for major enterprise companies (I happen to work as a dev lead in such a global company :) ). Just because Unity decided to have fewer releases does not imply anything on their development approach. There is a trend in the enterprise industry to actually have less releases per year since customers cannot cope with all the testing involved after upgrading. The dev teams themselves of course still have 2-4 week sprints with internal releases following Scrum or Kanban.

    From how Unity describes their testing approach in the blogs I would say they definitely follow agile methods, automatic test execution, continuous deployment models (internally), they have a beta program so they most probably also have continuous delivery in place. I literally don't know of any serious company that follows waterfall methodologies for at least 4 years now. This is just not realistic anymore.
     
  9. cannon

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    @Slyder

    At least for programming, iteration and flow in Unity are still far superior to UE4, and it scales to a lot more platforms and PC/Mac configurations.
    Also, I like C++ and I've known it even before C# was invented, but most of the time C# is just quicker for getting things done.

    If Unity 5 Pro delivers quality even just at par with where UE4 is now, that's going to be a huge draw for a lot of people.
     
  10. Deleted User

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    Well then it's a good job U5 doesn't use SVOGI or any sort Voxel Octree based GI system then isn't it? It's also a good job that the GI they have can run real time @ 30FPS on a mobile. Radiosity based and baked raytracing DL ring a bell?

    Also it doesn't have any real impact on gaming? Seriously.. You know Enlighten is used with Frostbite right? It ran well on last generation consoles and we all know there as powerful as a cooked chicken.

    Now Unity has some work to do, sure that's fine.. But don't beat up on an expensive solution that can make a lot of difference to 3D games developers who are trying to compete.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2014
  11. tatoforever

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    Sure that's fine but Enlighten only does a single bounce GI and it's only on lighting, shadows still computed from direct lights. Also Enlighten radiosity point samples are very low resolution (not 1:1 pixel but rather few point samples per screen) plus radiosity samples are computed on the CPU at runtime. The end results could be similar to SSGI. They could however replace lightmaps workflow in the future if not already done by the Unity5 implementation (I'm not quite sure about this) which still good but we are far from a fully dynamic workflow. Still it's a very good step for lighting workflow in games.

    Enlighten workflow:
    $upload.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  12. JayG81

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    This was my deciding factor for sticking with Unity.
     
  13. derkoi

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    Ditto. Although there's nothing stopping me learning another engine on the side, in my 'spare' time, if I ever get any. lol
     
  14. hippocoder

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    Still haven't seen evidence of anyone actually leaving let alone coming back. Seems like just a few kids with big dreams dazzled by a big name have left. Soon they'll start coming back when they realise that in game development, the development is king, not the graphics. Development is, and will always be the number one priority if you don't have 50+ staff and actually sort of want to get something finished.
     
  15. Deleted User

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    @ Tato, no point listing things off anyone can just Google, I'd consider it a good idea to wait and see what it's capable of when we get Unity 5.

    @ Hippo, whilst I agree with your sentiment on workflow. I've noticed the forums become quieter and I'm not sure what evidence you'd get anyway they simply will have left if they're going to use UE4, but the only one who will know the impact is Unity. I wonder how many pre-orders came in after the announcement from UE4?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2014
  16. orb

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    I haven't noticed the forums being quieter, only certain threads quieting down. There are still 20 pages of new posts when I do my semi-regular read-through.
     
  17. cynic

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    There might be a little truth to the forums becoming a bit quieter, however, I have the feeling this is simply because things calmed down over time, when compared with the initial WTF moment and resulting panic on the boards. Why am I thinking that? Because in all fairness, one would need to also mention that while Epic themselves remain committed and active, the UE4 forums also calmed down quite a bit, there are much less new topics than there used to be during the announcement period. People just got back to work (and perhaps evaluating the options quietly now). But hey, that's subjective anyway.

    My take on this whole situation:

    People and studios are going to choose the right tool for the job and not the other way around. This is not some holy war where we swear loyalty to one product. Mostly people got excited, people got impressed, people got pissed and people like fancy tech demos.

    Unless you're doing the next big thing graphically for PC / Next Gen consoles, there's probably little reason to even look at UE4 at the given moment. They're still very early on in their development. Target platforms are very limited, the toolset runs like crap on OS X, workflow is still slightly wonky, the engine itself is impressive but a resource drain. If you're even considering mobile deployment or slightly older hardware, just don't jump ship yet, wait to see whether or not they optimise and by how much.

    Naturally everyone is excited and evaluating. The future will certainly become more competitive and interesting for us. Just don't listen to kids that jump over to create some simple FPS or third person level with ready made assets using blueprint that will tell you the grass is greener on the other side, because quite truthfully, it's not really and it highly depends on what you want to do. Yea, I understand a lot of people are excited to work with THE almighty Unreal Engine und propagate the hell out of it now. The thing is: now it's nothing special anymore to use it, if people really think anyone is going to be impressed by this alone, they're mistaken.

    If Unity could also get those Mono issues in order some time around Unity 5, I think it could be quite huge, because say what you want, productivity wise, Unity is still miles ahead.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  18. goat

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    The time immediately UE4 announcement is like the yearly 'Black Friday' announcements, 'big' soccer games, or big concerts - you avoid the areas of entry near the event if you enjoy NOT being trampled except if I had to choose: I'd going to those forums over the real life stadiums and store venues any day, because at worse I get suckered into replying to a few snarky comments, like this one, not trampled.
     
  19. Hesham

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    I'm still sticking with Unity, however, I did subscribe to UE4. It is just $19 and I get to play with a new engine.

    - Is it ready for production? Maybe, depends on which platform you're targeting. Mobile needs more optimizing.
    - Not very excited about C++, I prefer C# or even Objective-C. But I spent a few hours today experimenting and brushing up on C++ and actually it is not as bad as I remember.
    - Documentation is ok considering. There is a lot of online tutorials. Plus the header files are clear and concise.

    I think the whole reason Epic made the beta available to the public is the fact that there is a learning curve and there is no reason not to get everybody interested started.

    My overall direction: Sticking with Unity but will keep a close eye on UE4 it is definitely a viable indie engine and at $19 is a viable threat to any other engine in the same space.
     
  20. nipoco

    nipoco

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    I would really like to know where you get the idea, UE4 is only used by kids, that got beguiled by the shiny graphics? You should took a brief look into the Unreal showcase forums, or Polycount's UE4 thread.

    How many inexperienced kids does Unity have, thanks to the free version vs. UE4 that costs money, even if it's only 20 bucks?
     
  21. goat

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    $20 a month is enough to rule out all but the kids that have rich parents that have gotten them credit cards and direct deposit monthly allowances - which means most of them couldn't be high schoolers. I think this ideal of blaming all crude and bad behavior and poor English on high school kids is over. It's really simple: you go to a public outlet were folks are competing for attention and reward crude behavior you'll get more crude behavior, even from adults. And don't deny there is an element of adults trying to age as if they have watched one too many episodes of Absolutely Fabulous.

    I have to admit though sometimes I see such horrible English and I think that's not someone that doesn't know English. What's going on here? (I know about chat speak and such - this is something different). It's been a while though since I've seen someone introduce a post by claiming to be underage as if they were on trial for a crime.
     
  22. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Did I say only? I really must stop using invisible ink, then because I can't see where I said only.

    The most vocal and loud mouthed have left Unity to try it out and are currently advertising mmos and all sorts over on the UE4 forums. You did read all of my comment and not just the bits that stood out?

    And has nothing to do with all the artists who aren't kids, using it. Read the comment again, this time in context.
     
  23. nipoco

    nipoco

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    A bit nitpicky here, aren't we?
    You didn't use this exact wording, but that's how it reads to me: "Only kids and dreamers left Unity, while the serious developers stay at Unity" And it's not the first time you said something like that.

    Furthermore, you tell me that I took stuff out of context, but all you highlight from the UE4 forums, are some minors who advertise their mmo ideas. Don't we have that here too?

    Believe it or, not but there are already a good chunk of professional UE4 games in the works. From small indies and triple A studios alike.

    Also, it's ridiculous that you said, you have yet to see a evidence that people actually left Unity. What do you expect? That all people who leave, shout that out loud here?

    If you stay with Unity and think it is a good deal, fine. But you shouldn't assume that every professional game developer draws the same conclusions as you do.
    There are a not so small number of people that are not really happy with Unity and how UT handles certain things. Not everyone of them jumps ship immediately, because a lot of them are in the middle of their Unity projects. It would simply foolish to switch then in most cases.

    I'm not in the boat of people that think Unity will eventually die, like Garage Games. But I believe they will lose a big chunk of their market share, if they don't improve their pricing, development cycle and the engine itself, while Epic keeps the current pace.
     
  24. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    You really did misunderstand the entire thrust and context of what I've said so I'm not going to bother. I've even said that when the time comes that UE4 makes sense for us, we'd use it. But you're not understanding the demographic I'm speaking about.
     
  25. Grafos

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    +1
     
  26. ShilohGames

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    I agree with this prediction. I don't think Unity is going to be gone completely, but I definitely think the entire Unity ecosystem is dangerously threatened if Unity does not improve their pricing. Next weekend marks the one month anniversary of the UE4 announcement by Epic. I am really hoping Unity announces a competitive subscription plan before then. The sooner Unity matches Epic's subscription price, the better it will be for the Unity ecosystem. If Unity waits too long to react, then Epic will gain a lot of market share at Unity's expense.
     
  27. angrypenguin

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    Well, no. hippo was talking pretty specifically about people who make huge decisions based on knee-jerk reactions and the grass being greener, as opposed to those who make such decisions based on objective criteria and fit to a given project. The point isn't that one engine is better than another. It's that they all have their pros and cons, and that either sticking to one or jumping to another based on ad-hoc decision making isn't an effective way to run a project.

    Ultimately what the situation boils down to here is that now we have more options available to us, and this niche area of the market which was previously dominated by a single company now has solid competition which could lead to further benefits for us. Also, the two front runners in the market are both excellent options.
     
  28. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Where are the last posts? I see a massive deletion lately. :rolleyes:
    [EDIT] Guys seriously stop deleting posts unnecessary, I got the last post notification and that guy didn't nothing wrong to get his post deleted. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  29. saymoo

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    If they can't beat them, they delete them ;)

    But seriously, if this is happening, please stop it. (it harms the open culture here on the forums)
     
  30. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    This was the last post by Furynyx:

     
  31. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Seriously, I don't see any reason to delete this post. What's going on here? :cry:
     
  32. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Dude, get a grip.

    $amxRUGJ.png


    And you get a grip too. People DO delete their own posts (really frequently too).


    In fact I feel you both need to actually do something constructive like make a game instead of making veiled remarks like children. This excessive paranoia is a clear sign of spending *way* too much time on forums, like oh, it's real life or something.
     
  33. tatoforever

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    Sorry then, It's just that I've seen so many similar posts being deleted latelly that I first though it got deleted by mods. :rolleyes:
    PS: But anyway you don't have to edit my post. That guy post made a lot of sense, he's right. :p
     
  34. saymoo

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    That's why i said "if" :) (so i'm not saying this happens as tatoforever stated...)
     
  35. Furynyx

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    Sorry guys, I deleted that post as I think with posting tired late at night I got some peoples comments mixed up with Hippos and figured it'd be easier to delete and re-word rather than offending him and taking him out of context. Here's my re-worded post:

    I just want to add to this thread and touch on things mentioned throughout the Forum about this topic.

    I hear a lot of people comparing UE4 to Unity as if UE4 is like UDK; having spent some time with UE4 now, I find it is highly polished in comparison to Unity's editor and, so far, it blows UDK's and Unity's workflow and development time out of the water.

    Just my view on independent developers, hobbyists and the current Unity payment system:
    I see a lot of people bash on anyone that can't afford to cough up the payment for Unity Pro as being a "Hobbyist" but the reality is that a lot of people (especially in these economic times) can't afford to risk $1500 per seat in a high risk industry and no where does the definition "independent" state "only well-off people who can spare the money for extra resources" (doesn't paying for extra resources make you less independent?). I won't touch on Unity's current subscription option as it is just ridiculous for most (but not all) independent developers.

    Another viewpoint people seem to have on the UE4 subscription versus Unity Pro implies that Indies care more about money than their passion for making games (apparently 5% gross revenue means a no-go for the majority); I was actually under the impression Indies, as a whole, were more passionate about making great games over how much profit they end up making. With that logic, would that not also mean no real Indies would consider launching their title on a digital distribution platform either because of the 30% cut they take?
    The way I see it is that the industry's very low chance of success makes a bit of revenue share a small price to pay for your first successful title; after becoming a success you can look at different licensing options, ones that don't include royalties.

    People seem to also imply independent developers who are not just hobbyists-in-disguise should be professionals that know what they are doing and be able to easily upfront thousands per team member; this would imply they would be knowledgeable and skilled at what they do, so why then do I keep hearing that these non-hobbyists find coding in C++ and having full access to source code a long stretch for independent developers, and think it will apparently only appeal to a minority? In my opinion, any serious independent developers capable of truly publishing a successful game would find that to be a major selling point.
    It is also constantly pointed out that there is a "free" version of Unity which apparently makes it superior, last I checked there is a free version of the Unreal Engine and the CryEngine too.

    I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that you can negotiate custom licensing with Epic either yet, where they specifically state "If you require terms that reduce or eliminate royalty for an upfront fee, or if you need custom legal terms or dedicated Epic support to help your team reduce risk or achieve specific goals, we’re here to help."; the subscription is just one of many possible options. I highly doubt the upfront fee will be affordable for an independent developer but like I've already stated, if you aren't money-hungry then when you make your first successful title you can look at other licensing choices.

    From what I've seen from UE4 so far, it looks like independent developers are going to have more amazing viable choices of engines for their projects and each engine will have great features and selling points to decide what fits their project best. I'm sure if Unity is affected significantly by this massive step forward for independent developers, it would rather change things up than just sink entirely so people don't need to get defensive, panic or worry about Unity. Let's all just enjoy some exciting engine R&D, the new choices for future projects, and how awesome it is going to be to watch things greatly improve for us all as competition heats up.

    Unity 5's feature-set sounds promising and I'm hoping that it stands strong in competition with the new CryEngine and UE4 licensing conditions and indie-appeal; hopefully Unity do change up their payment options somewhat.
     
  36. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I did not edit your post. Please stop with the accusations. The mods have a history of changes and can see if someone is just causing trouble. Is there a reason you're acting like this? Is it too much pressure on you to finish your game?


    @Furynyx: it's never offensive to argue your own point passionately, and I appreciate you posting it again :)
     
  37. Thomas-Pasieka

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    @tatoforever - Hardly ever do Mods actually edit a post. If anything, we ask the author to do so if necessary. Secondly, we delete posts if they are breaking rules. Now can we PLEASE stick to the topic. If you got issues with rules/moderation then I suggest you contact an Admin on that subject. THIS is not the place to do so.
     
  38. saymoo

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    Well put Furynyx. Big thumbs up for you :)
     
  39. Furynyx

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    Glad to hear you didn't take offense to me mixing things up, I think I had just come from a thread with the OP being non-sensical, haha. Didn't want to add to the typical internet stereotype of attacking people stupidly or out of context and my rant read as more of an attack so I was trying to avoid it being read altogether but I guess I was too slow.

    Sorry guys for making you paranoid, there are some unprofessional places that do annoyingly delete posts so I hear where you are coming from but it sounds like you're safe here :D.
     
  40. tatoforever

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    Then I've must be running into a forum bug. Got my posts piled up (wasn't unable to see them after being posted).
    Sorry for the noise.
     
  41. goat

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    Oh come on. I delete my posts all the time if they are repetitive too closely. Or I was catty and my maturity takes over soon enough afterwards. After all if I wouldn't say it in person. And I typically edit 1 - 3 times after my original post. It's not sneaky, it's quality control. Even though my English scores were lowest of my college entry exam scores I was still schooled to try and write in good English.

    The problem here is it's not typical for a moderator to ever offer opinion as it's too easy too claim a conflict of interest against forum rules. I don't think it's needed to try and fuse Hippos roles as private poster with his role as moderator. He is mature enough to separate those tasks even if I don't agree with him all the time.

    I actually saw the f* word in a Asset Store product review - why doesn't Unity have a filter against that type of word? Those filters have been around a while.

    I did have a thread deleted and I wasn't the one that deleted and I wasn't notified as to the reason. The thread linked to an article about the Chevy Cruze recall and wondered how similar GM's vehicle engineering SW was to a game engine like Unity. It may have been a unknowledgeable question but then I'm not going to ask what 1 + 1 is am I? I assume it was because it referred to GM but then UE4 and all manner of other company references are made in these forums. The logic behind the deletion of that thread made no sense, not that I was offered any.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  42. Deleted User

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    I see what Furynyx is saying but I'm going to have to disagree on the financials. You pay for the tool's you need to do your product to a competitive standard, if that costs a lot of money than so be it.. That being said, I'm going to be open and honest for once what I think about Unity, normally I'm wrapped up in tact but as it's brought my project to a halt and has caused me to fall out with and loose my financiers there is little reason to anymore.

    So firstly, it all depends on what project you're doing.. It really has a massive bearing on how Unity is going to respond to you, so everyone has to take this into account..

    In 4.2.2.1f, we had quite a few issues with the editor grinding to a halt and we have always had issues with RAM limitations crashing the editor, Umbra had a habit of making random meshes disappear, beast would have a heart attack looking at the size of a decent terrain. Yes we do take advantage of Async loading, yes we do take advantage of whatever little prefab streaming comes with it to no avail.

    So we finally get annoyed enough with the editor running slow to Upgrade, first time around the editor wouldn't even start up. It got hung on an asset and kept falling over, finally we found and deleted said asset's from our project we got it to work.. We also made a replacement for Beast and Umbra, things started going more smoothly, the actual build ran at crazy speeds until!.. I reported three months ago that deleting the last tree on a scene would crash the editor, also the terrain editor would become completely unresponsive. We removed all our own plugs to see if it was us causing the issue and it wasn't, we removed any splat scripts and pretty much gutted the game to try and find the issue. As the last bug reported had fallen on deaf ears, we needed to find a solution.. After a week of messing about, we decided to downgrade back to 4.2.2.1f at least it worked half properly then everything got messed up beyond belief our backups / version control editions wouldn't work in it and now the project has been deleted.. In 4.3 it got to the point if I selected more than a handful of items in the project window it would just fall over, never mind kicking off convolution with marmoset.. It was again crash city.. In essence we upgraded, it fixed some of the original issues and we got presented with a slurry of other issues..

    So the editor fell over constantly due to Ram limitations, Beast wouldn't work at all, Umbra did some crazy stuff, tons of niggly bugs like the terrain editor just stopping working all over the place..

    Now you can probably say that it's just us and our combined experience between the six main coders reaching 90 years might not have a clue what we are doing. You can say that and I'd disagree with you.. BUT!

    I've assisted and befriended people doing other large games like MMO's, these guys are masters of there craft and experienced twice as many issues as us. Ranging from Physx bugs they reported years ago which still isn't fixed, to the same issues we experienced.. So we are not alone in this..

    IMO for what we do, Unity is a catastrophe waiting to happen plus there's still things that really irk me about the engine visually. But all in all, it doesn't matter what features Unity 5 comes with and it also doesn't matter if it is the best looking engine. It's about being able to get a game released.. I'm very hesitant about Unity 5 not because I don't think it will have everything we need, but because it will take ages to be released in a state that's stable and still filled with a load of bugs making it a virtual paperweight. Bugs are fine as they get fixed in a reasonable time frame.. So we have UE4, it doesn't fall over every 5 minutes, it has more features than Unity has and the cost is a fraction of the $1500.00 asking price. I personally hate the workflow in it, but as it stands right now it's THE smart idea..

    So it leaves us in limbo, I don't trust Unity to deliver and I've lost a lot of money due to this, but it was my own dumb ass fault for being lazy and going with the easy option,.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2014
  43. Ocid

    Ocid

    Joined:
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    Posts:
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    Because people are adults? Even if you want to say think of the kids they use far worse. I did when I was 14 and still do now. F***ing hate forums that don't even give me option to turn it off.

    Unless you don't have the money to begin with :)

    Sucks balls you're having issues with your game now though. How long before you need to make a commitment to something?
     
  44. Deleted User

    Deleted User

    Guest

    I understand mate, I've been in situations where I didn't have two pennies to scratch my behind with and was worried about getting evicted. It's not nice..

    Well we lost our financiers and a $2.8 Million investment which was based on us getting a demo out by October / November. So our commitment now is until I run out of money, which sucks.. Anyway, I'll check out U5 because I have a subscription but I'm finding little if no reason to stick with Unity.

    I could of bought a support contact for 2K a month or whatever, but what incentive do you have when things from years back still haven't been fixed?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2014
  45. Hikiko66

    Hikiko66

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Posts:
    1,304
    I'd actually like to see some statistics on bug reports be freely available and in an intuitive and easy to navigate format.

    How many user bug reports are there?
    How many per month?
    How many get verified?
    How many get fixed?
    What is the average age of a bug that has not been fixed?
    How long on average do they take to fix?
    How long on average before they are deployed?
    How many are being worked on at any given moment, and what are they?

    etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  46. Ocid

    Ocid

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Posts:
    476
    Damn. That's alot of money to lose out on. Best of luck anyway.
     
  47. Rico21745

    Rico21745

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Posts:
    409
    I too can vouch for ShadowK's point that Unity really has some serious stability/workflow problems when dealing with larger projects.

    For those people making mobile/gamejam/small games, Unity can probably do the job just fine. But throw in larger codebases, art, and complex systems, and you will be spending months out of the year working around bugs, issues, and limitations with the engine and the editor.

    My project has been going on for around2 years and it's a fairly large sandbox project where I do a lot of work with dynamic gameplay and procedural work. I had to build my own culling system among many other things. Unity has crashed probably thousands of times now to the point where I make myself save anytime I make ANY changes inside of Unity to anything. Edit a gameobject? CTRL-S, or risk Unity crashing and me losing my changes. It has happened way too many times already.

    On the other hand, I'm pretty sure this is a problem UE4 has already dealt with, given the nature of the games released on UE3 in the past. I really don't think Unity was built for big games at all.
     
  48. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Posts:
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    UE4 is build with this idea in mind, large scalable games, non-linear workflow with huge databases of assets, code, sounds, etc and strong emphasis of very large populated worlds with plenty of entities and simulations running in real-time.
    Currently it's technically not possible to do this with Unity due to some core limitations and plenty of issues/bugs (that hopefully will be addressed in v5).
     
  49. Deleted User

    Deleted User

    Guest

    Agreed, but it's also a matter of feedback. I asked to become part of the Beta to get my hands on the new editor, because anythings better than what we are living with now. We don't have a clue when U5 is coming out, even if it is a Beta build so what do people do in the mean time working on larger projects?
     
  50. orb

    orb

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Posts:
    3,037
    Cry themselves to sleep after each workday.