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Official Whiteboxing

Discussion in 'Open Projects' started by cirocontinisio, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    You can tell much more about a story through space though, without breaking immersion. I don't only expect to see some lyrics - dialogue bubbles - mini-movies, to get a sense of it. Have you ever played Playdead's games? (Limbo/Inside). They didn't have a single text, nor cutscene, but their story/settings were great (just to give an example).
    Yes, you are definitely right. However, that’s the case in every game. You think and design a 100 things, and it would be a success if the player notices 10. They do add to the general feel though. If you go with what you expect the player to notice and end up with just 10 things then, what kind of experience would that really make? What kind of games would then be made? I am talking quality and not quantity here, I do realize the scope and time management limitations, we are already on the 2nd month. In your previous post you mentioned you are an engineer and you expressed your concerns about the kind of structure and building technologies the Townsfolk could have, giving example of arches and columns (glad you did!). I am an engineer too, but I am concerned with the functionality of having these structures built to give sense to a place, as they all add to a purpose. (why would we need a grandiose entrance to a building for example, or a ritual-like descending path to a hidden place, or tall columns to make our player feel small or bring awe under a higher power, things like that, generally speaking.) No need to get too specific, but we definitely need to figure out a character for our place – a genius loci, that will support the gameplay (hence the "Level Design") and not just the general aesthetics (environment art concerns). In the end, of course we have to be practical, but going through the process of thinking about it is what makes this experience fun for me. And I guess for others as well?
    PS: We are making an adventure game that clearly relies on exploration, so I guess we are mainly designing with an explorer player type in mind. In that manner, we should give them some good reasons to enjoy their exploring :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
    GuklenMom and erizzoalbuquerque like this.
  2. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Hi Amel,
    it turns out I can't use Polybrush for a terrain of that size on my (elderly) computer. It get's beyond slow (swapping?). I will figure something out, but I need to ask for patience.
     
  3. Zold2012

    Zold2012

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  4. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I have raised the pull request for my town whiteboxing.
     
  5. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    I left a comment on it, there's some strange commit history going on. Which also prevents me from merging because due to that history now it looks like André from our team (user Verasl) has to sign the CLA...
     
  6. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

    Unity Technologies

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    Zold2012 likes this.
  7. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

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    As Ciro said, the commit history is strange and you are merging from whiteboxing to main but I saw you opened a new PR which I just reviewed and merged. I closed the old PR, thanks :)
     
  8. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I did some whiteboxing of the cooking festival.
    I imagine a stage with music playing and for announcing the winner. Around it I grouped - I imagine foldable - tables and benches, where the townsfolk celebrate and enjoy the food.
    Around the remaining festival place there are boots and market stalls. There might be boots with townsfolks chopping, frying, roasting, baking and stirring in cauldrons. Professional carrot carvers, pea pilers and foilage folders offer their goods at the market stalls. Some market stalls also offer whine and beer - for those who don't want to quench their thirst from the well alone.
    Our pig chef has a boot on his own where he cooks with his chicken Whiteboxing Cooking Festival.JPG .
     
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  9. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    Here comes a version of the town sitting on a cliff. Including an aqueduct and waterwheels. truffletonOnTheCliff1.JPG truffletonOnTheCliff2.JPG
     
  10. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Nice @Smurjo I like how it becomes a bit more isolated and protected underneath these huge cliffs! Love the waterfalls as well. I think this leaves space for quite some breath-taking views as you enter the town. And having simple structures like the aqueduct and waterwheels adding a bit of motion to the scene, I think it will make everything feel much more alive. Plus these could perhaps be actually used for a mission. Maybe you could further expand on this by introducing some smaller sub-squares. Maybe the town could have some sub-parts that might be connected with bridges or be on different levels, giving some differentiation between the solid ground and some contrasting big voids that the player has to cross over. And maybe we could have a secret path that passes behind a waterfall? Though I cannot come with a better reason for that yet other than it would give some nice atmosphere and potentially a reward (a hidden place?). Maybe that could be the start of the Rock Path eventually since it will be right on the mountain? Perhaps going...through the mountain? :eek: Ok I am starting to feel like Bob Ross, I just wanted to give some feedback.

    As for me, I am working on linking the town to the beach according to @NicknEmart map suggestion to try it out in 3d and have a scene with a more general overview - connecting views/places as you've both suggested (been a bit busy, but wanted to provide a small update and inform on what is being worked on right now).
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
    GuklenMom and erizzoalbuquerque like this.
  11. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    I like this version of the town too!

    Just out of curiosity: has any of you tried to whitebox using all the art assets we have in the project, but just slapping on them the default ProBuilder material? I believe it is a world-space texture, so it should show the grid on any object regardless of their UVs.
     
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  12. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I created my houses for the town new in Probuilder, but starting with a cube (created as new gameobject) which I "probuilderized".
    I didn't create the terrain with Probuilder. Since I had already created a terrain and Polybrush didn't work (too slow) - I wrote a script to copy the terrain heights to a mesh. The UV on my mesh are corresponding to the XZ-coordinates, since I wanted the terrain textures as texture to show the water and the roads (this is why I didn't want the Probuilder material anyway, really difficult to see the water that way).
     
  13. NicknEmart

    NicknEmart

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    Small update
    The whiteboxing of the beach is taking a little longer than expected, but here's what it looks like now. I'll post a video of it with an explanation of how the tutorial could work soon :)

    upload_2020-11-19_15-7-34.png
     
  14. RurouniKen

    RurouniKen

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    Hey guys I just started the whiteboxing for the beach, even though I don't know if its needed anymore.

    Also I wanted some help regarding this error that Github is throwing whenever I try to pull the origin.

    Captura de Pantalla 2020-11-19 a la(s) 20.30.15.png
     
  15. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    If we want to make a rich game, any contribution is more than welcome! It's really helpful to see different approaches and test different things. And at some point hopefully we'll merge the best of all ideas into one :) (I am afraid I cannot help you with the error, not sure if the prompt down left has anything to do with it)
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  16. NicknEmart

    NicknEmart

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    Beach area whiteboxing :D

    MAIN THOUGHTS
    By the time the player leaves this area, the player must have learned to:
    - Use movement controls -> Wide flat area to experiment with controls
    - Interact with interactable objects (read signs, talk with characters) -> something to interact with
    - Use the attack action -> Inanimate object that reacts when attacked
    - Cook -> A cooking pot (as the cooking thread decided, the player will need a cooking pot whenever he wants to cook)
    - Feed and use the phoenix chick -> Canes that block passage to next area

    CONSEQUENCES
    Since the player has to learn how to cook, there has to be a cooking pot somewhere on the beach. I decided that, for this, even though BH will travel across the island while we play, he will still have his house on the beach, so I could put a pot near it.
    Also, since the canes block the passage but somehow BH still managed to go to the glade, I made a second exit to his house and put some bridges that go around the canes: this way BH can go wherever he wants but we are confined to the beach, since we cannot access his house.

    THE RESULT


    FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS
    - The level doesn't contain a tutorial for the jump (in the sense that you could finish the whole level without jumping once - we could explicitly tell the player that they can jump but this doesn't guarantee they will).
    I don't know how essential it is that players has learned to jump by the time they leave this area, they could also be taught that later (maybe in the glade), but anyway I'd like to keep this in mind.
    - I'm not sure about this, but with the canes as the main obstacle we could run in the HM-Cut problem (a name I just made up but that I think works), unless we make them REALLY dense. One possible soultion could be to use a log stuck between two rocks. But as always, I could be wrong, so let's first discuss it.
     
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  17. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Hey @NicknEmart , no better way to explain your thinking than with a video I think :) Thanks a lot for the effort and sharing this. Really liked that you thought of the composition inside the frame guiding the player’s eye towards a point of interest. I think the scale might be a bit too large, but then again I think mine was definitely a bit too small. Maybe an in-between solution would be ideal? Also, liked the “To Do” list which is supposedly written by Bard Hare. Nice way on introducing the “Get some fruit/Cutting Canes” hint, as we might go on and do it ourselves to help him out and get a reward according to the Tutorial that @ChemaDmk has suggested (regarding the implicit mission). Plus it’s a nice way to get a “mission”, citing some concerns from the Game Flow Diagram Thread (@mattinjersey ) .
    I like the idea of using the attack to a tree to gather an ingredient. We should also introduce some critters in the scene according to the Game Flow diagram. I also like the idea of having paths and small scene overviews (keeping that in mind in general, for the whole game).
    I have some questions:
    The path shown at the end of the video where the character falls (RIP), would lead to the Glade?
    Trying to align with what Chema stated for the Tutorial:
    “Moving to another location the player discovers the character interaction:
    • Interacts with a character to get an implicit mission.
    • Discovers the new location
    • Achieves the implicit mission
    • Returns to the previous character”
    In the game map it is stated that we meet Bard Hare on the Glade and not the Beach. So I think we should try to link the Glade with the Beach for the tutorial? But if we meet Bard Hare in the Glade, what is the new location that we are going to discover? A new part of the Glade or a new part of the Beach?
    In general I like the idea of having signs of life at the initial beach area without introducing a character yet to get familiarized with basic stuff. A “house” with two exits also makes sense to me to discover two different places that a character might be using (Bard Hare).
    As for the jump tutorial: Maybe he has to jump up a little rock cliff to arrive at the Glade.

    PS: What happened to the light and materials though? Not that I minded, just in case you run into any trouble perhaps we could help you with the setup. Did you use Pro Builder?
     
  18. NicknEmart

    NicknEmart

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    I had the same thought, yeah. Note that the various objects (trees and rocks) definitely make it feel bigger than it actually is, but I agree that a smaller variant would be better.

    Yup

    I haven't really been up to date with the game flow diagram to I don't have a ready answer, but maybe we could have BH tell the player to get some more ingredients (implicit mission), also giving him a hint on where to find them (a place on the beach that was inaccessible before / was accessible but was off the path). A small cave with the entrance hidden by canes? So the player cannot possibly stumble upon the "new place" without even knowing how to cook or to attack. And since the player is now for sure able to attack, it could also be the place where critters are placed.
    So: player explores the beach, not much he can do except making its way to the glade; meets BH, gets implicit mission, goes back to the beach and finds cave, goes back to glade completing implicit mission, gets access to the village.

    Simple and straightforward, I don't see why not :)

    I have no idea and I was confused too (yes I used probuilder) but I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. I noticed that the player became lit when he got very close to the fireplace, so maybe the global directional light wasn't powerful enough. Also, I don't know if animations have been merged yet but none of them played too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  19. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    I remember having problems initially with the Probuilder material too, where I fixed it by going to: Window>PackageManager>ProBuilder> Universal Render Pipeline Support and making sure it is imported in the project. (Same with Polybrush you should go to: Window>PackageManager>Polybrush>Shader Examples (UniversalRP) and make sure it is imported into the project.) I think it has been added to the project now so that you don't have to do it manually, as Zold2012 and Amel have mentioned previously. Don't know if that could be your case though too and dunno why the character is totally black. In any case, I am wondering if you could do a PR for this? I think it would be nice to have all the test scenes in that Whiteboxing branch, I would personally like to try it. @RurouniKen as you can see there is still room for improvements, perhaps you could take the above into consideration since you are going through the beach whiteboxing as well!
     
  20. NicknEmart

    NicknEmart

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    Quick note about something else we'll have to decide: I just red what the game over card says about fainting: black screen fade, and he spawns back at the village, someone from the town telling him that they found him unconscious. This means that if we decide to put critters before the village, we'll have to come up with something else. BH can help us after we've met him, but what about critters on the beach?
     
  21. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

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    To fix it, you need to go to Window -> Rendering -> Lighting settings and press Generate Lighting. All should look good afterwards. Let me know once you fix it and I will merge the PR.

    Also I noticed that in your scene you didn't add the managers (SpawnSystem and CameraManager), it would be good to add them so it becomes easier and quicker to test the scene :)
     
  22. RurouniKen

    RurouniKen

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    Thank you buddy, I felt very unconfident showing my work on the whiteboxing since its my first attempt on level design and looking at all the awesome work you guys have posted. But here's what I have worked on.
    Beach General view
    Captura de Pantalla 2020-11-27 a la(s) 12.22.00.png
    Start of the level
    https://imgur.com/efq1IjL

    Free roam segment
    The idea is to have a small but decent area so the player can get familiar with the basic movement

    https://imgur.com/xSomXSi

    Jump tutorial
    Here the player can see a signpost and a platform. The player interacts with the signpost where instructions on how to jump are given.
    https://imgur.com/pt2hgJW

    Attack tutorial
    The player sights another signpost, along with some barrels.
    When interacting with the signpost, the player gets instructions on how to attack and some barrels to test it.

    The player can choose to move forward and explore without knowing how to attack ,but he will later spot some barrels obstructing the path to the phoenix tutorial where knowing to attack is needed.
    https://imgur.com/uI2Tc5g
    https://imgur.com/grQYRYF

    Path overview
    Here the player can see 2 clear paths, both obstructed by obstacles.
    The closest one leads to the phoenix flame tutorial, which is obstructed by some barrels and the farthest one to the Glade, which is obstructed by the canes.
    https://imgur.com/LdaeZwj

    Phoenix flame tutorial
    As the player gets rid of the barrels by attacking them, a high platform leads to an unlit bonfire that the player has to jump to get to it.

    When the player reaches the platform, there is another signpost containing the instructions to use the phoenix flame that lights the bonfire.

    https://imgur.com/gUTLLJS
    https://imgur.com/RA6NCJG

    Path to the glade

    Now that the player knows how to the use the flame, he will naturally try to use the flame on the canes obstructing the path to the glade.

    As the player traverses through the path, he will little by little get a nice vista of the town at the far distance, until he reaches the entrance to the glade.

    https://imgur.com/sOC7PjY
    https://imgur.com/q6yhIJA
    https://imgur.com/lKxdYv0
    https://imgur.com/5qnvmrT


    I would love to have your feedback, I really want to be a professional level designer so I don't mind any harsh critics. Btw I will work on adding what @itsLevi0sa mentioned and maybe upload a walkthrough video if you guys think it's worth to give it a shot with what I have worked on so far. :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  23. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Oh no, that was definitely not the point! Glad you went ahead and shared your work with us, it's really nicely laid out and well explained! Here is my feedback (I am only learning as well):
    Start of level: So this is the first scene the player will see from the game, the first impression. I like your approach, arriving to something small and secure testing some basic things out before moving on to something bigger (sense of progression).
    Jump tutorial: I think we should integrate those rocks more with the environment rather than having them standing there alone. Perhaps we could leave the jumping for the bonfire part since it leads to a higher platform. Or we could jump our way to the Glade.
    Attack tutorial: Just like with the rocks, I think the barrels need some more context to their placement, a reason that justifies their existence. Probably in a setting that shows that they belong to someone (where in this case I would personally love to have some consequence if you smash them). Another nice way to introduce the attack I think it’s with the trees that NicknEmart suggested, who made that part of an implicit mission that also showed you how to interact with interactable objects (the “ToDo” list, instead of a UI guiding you).
    Path overview: I like the paths separation and their challenges/ways of overcoming them. So first, you learn to cook + use Phoenix’s fire (Path 1: Bonfire) which makes a nice mechanics combination, and then you use that fire to overcome the canes (Path 2), it makes sense.
    Path to the Glade: I totally agree, we should have an overview of the Town from afar with a nice camera angle as our little chef climbs the path up, I would expect that to be accompanied with our main soundtrack theme and probably the title could appear signaling the actual start of the game. Quite epic!

    I also noticed that we have a GameMap Update: We need to find a Key Ingredient at the Beach! How would we get that? Would that be a collectable from a tree? Barrels?Something hidden? Perhaps the narrative will give an answer.
    Also, after meeting Bard Hare at the Glade and get that implicit mission, it seems like the new location we discover is part of the Forest. So I guess there will be no back and forth to the Beach then.

    Further concerns:
    1. For the critters, it is stated that we will fight some Plant Critters in the Forest part, which should also drop some collectables. Will we have any critters (I guess the blue Slime ones) at the Beach as well?
    2. We will probably cook with Bard Hare also since he will give us a recipe + we will have found a couple more ingredients in the Glade/Forest too. Although I really like it, it makes me question if the bonfire at the Beach is really needed, perhaps we will get introduced to the cooking mechanic as soon as we meet Bard Hare.
    3. I still like the idea of having an inaccessible part at the Beach that @NicknEmart suggested. Perhaps we could see what it is at the end of the game, and make a cute farewell with a cute Easter Egg if the player remembers it.

    All in all, I would try to figure out a more intuitive way/integrated more with the story+world way of testing the core mechanics perhaps instead of the signposts. Mainly because in your case you are using an in-game asset to describe something off game, I think a UI hint would be better since the message is to the player and not part of the world. As for the level design in general, if you feel like diving deeper apart from the classic game design books this one was pure gold for me: An architectural approach to Level Design , I highly recommend it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  24. khushalborana537

    khushalborana537

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    Can I do it
     
  25. shuttle127

    shuttle127

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    No need to ask for permission, just get started by forking the project, start whiteboxing, then when there's something you'd like to show, do like @RurouniKen did and post it here. Excited to see your ideas! :)
     
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  26. NicknEmart

    NicknEmart

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    Did it :D sorry it took a while, but I have been really busy these days
     
  27. canchen_unity

    canchen_unity

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    @cirocontinisio Is there anywhere we can see all the 2d environment concept art for the project?
     
  28. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Hello @canchen_unity you can find most of the Concept Art here but there is also a community made whiteboard to gather some related thread posts together that also involves any environment concept art made for the project so far (at the bottom). You can find (and also edit) the link here: https://lucid.app/lucidspark/invitations/accept/477585e2-f654-47b0-b10c-27dbf8506ad1 , but please keep in mind that nothing you'll see there is official, it's just a pool of ideas to get an overall sense of what has been posted so far by the community. Hope this helps!
     
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  29. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Happy New Year everyone!
    Here is an update on the General Map whiteboxing, that recently got updated by the Concept Art contributions from @arunchahar and originally started with @NicknEmart 's map contribution and @Smurjo 's town, based on her main idea that the Town has basically 3 main roads: one road entering from Glade/Beach, a 2nd road leading to mountains and a 3rd road leading to the forest.
    General Map Diagram.jpg
    ---------------------------A general note before explaining – for future additions--------------------------

    I think that apart from the general environmental elements we’d like to see (rivers, farms, waterfalls etc) the overall design should also be concerned about the relationships we’d like to form between all the individual elements that make up the main story, in order to aid the gameplay as each area is going to serve a quest’s purpose finding some Key ingredients or meeting Key NPCs.
    From the Level Design’s perspective, any initial general form is bound to change as these elements begin their dialogue and quests start becoming more concrete.
    These dialogues could develop for example around:
    • What do we want to be connected with what and why? (Why would we place 3 lakes with connecting rivers for example around the map instead of 1 etc)
    • Where do we want to have an overview of what to serve what purpose?
    • Since one of the most basic themes is exploration: How many “rewards” can we give to our players to satisfy their exploring? (Sense of accomplishment, surprise, hidden places revealed)
    For example: After the concept art input by arunchahar who proposed village areas differentiations with certain functionalities, I expanded the main town part into 4 surrounding subparts that are connected with each other and the main part. These subparts could include these different functionalities, while enabling an overview of each other so that the player can easily navigate and know where he could find what. Also, I took advantage of the ground height differences and made the subparts "look" towards the town center below so that when the final scene of the Cooking Festival comes the main festival square could feel like a stage - the surrounding houses resembling an audience too (apart from the NPCs) to enhance the feeling that the whole town is watching.

    I tried to give some –pretty vague – answers through this proposal, so I’d like to walk you through to discuss the general thinking.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    General Map proposal – Walkthrough

    I've tried to make the documentation easier with some gifs, but sadly they couldn't be loaded here. So I've made another blog post going through it all instead.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At this point perhaps I should push the proposal on my own Github so that you can take it from me and further work on it/try your own things out. Then we could raise a collective PR later on. What do you think?

    PS1: I know it is extremely low poly. It is not supposed to look pretty just yet, although I kinda like the aesthetics of it. It’s made with Probuilder but I followed @Zold2012 's example of placing shapes instead of sculpting to keep the size of the scene small. I am happy to say it is at 13MB at the moment.
    PS2: @Smurjo I only remade the ground elevation a bit, since I haven’t basically used any sculpting nor painting in the rest of the map.
    PS3: @NicknEmart i placed your beach proposal in a way that the Bard Hare's house could communicate both with the Beach and the Glade.
    PS4: @RurouniKen I haven't found your beach proposal in the project that's why it's not shown here yet. But your thinking of starting from something small before going to something bigger was taken into account in this proposal.
    PS5: For the water streams and for the paths who have more organic curves I used ProBuilder’s Bezier Shape tool.
    PS6: I haven’t added any art asset just yet, but once we settle on the map, perhaps it would be a good time to try to fill them in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
  30. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I really think your overall map is taking us forward.
    I have been thinking the same. The whiteboxing is certainly necessary and I can hardly wait to try out your map, but it will be a lot of work to turn it into scenes. We also most likely detect we are missing art assets and might need to modify some of the existing assets to make them fit into the overall picture or meet space constraints.
    Due to the size - once it becomes detailed and filled with art assets - the overall overall map will be consisting of several scenes. At some point we will need to
    • divide the plan into the different scenes
    • define locations where action happens (critters, cutscenes, ingredients found)
    • define the locations where the loading and unloading of scenes is triggered. These locations should be designed in a way that the scene being loaded isn't visible. We don't want any action at the trigger locations (apart from cutscenes - but they are optional) for one as we don't want the player wandering about erratically at the trigger location and potentially trigger the loading and unloading multiple times (we might want to place the trigger for loading and unloading a little apart for the same reason). And second the background loading of scenes has impact on the performance - which the player is more likely to notice if there is action - like a critter attack - happening.
    • define lines of view to show the player there is stuff to be explored in other scenes. We of course also need create those far away views. It might be practical to simply make the far away view part of the scene from which they are seen so we don't need any separate loading and unloading logic for the views. But this means we can't have a far away view between 2 neighboring scenes - when they are both loaded we have the 2D view standing around in our scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  31. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

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    Happy New Year everyone :)
    This is fantastic @itsLevi0sa !! Thanks a lot for putting together all the feedback and contributions from this thread and the concept art thread and for making the blog post! This is super helpful and indeed, you are welcome to open a PR so others can build on top of it and contribute further.
    I also just merged the main branch into the whiteboxing branch so we can have access to the latest version and updates from main including the assets. I will keep an eye on updating the whiteboxing branch as we add more changes to the main branch.
     
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  32. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    @Amel-Unity ok then I'll fetch the update and try to open a PR if that's better. (wish me luck) @Smurjo really good points! Espcially since the map has been worked as a whole with no scene loading references anywhere, it definitely needs to be further worked on.
     
  33. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Hello, I think I did the PR after fetching the update and hopefully it has no issues(?). The link is here: https://github.com/UnityTechnologies/open-project-1/pull/294

    Edit 1: The protagonist appeared pink, but I was using 14.4.12f1 instead of 14.4.14f1, I upgraded the version before pushing but he still appeared pink. I will now upgrade to 14.4.17f1 after the recent news update, hope this is not something that I dragged into the PR as well?
    Edit 2: I placed some Objectives placeholders in the scene and some areas descriptions like signposts just to have a reference for what could happen in each area. This will change of course, but I tried to gather what we have so far to understand the scene better. Don't know if this is needed, we could remove it or update it if something that's written there is inaccurate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  34. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

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    Thanks a lot again for this fantastic contribution @itsLevi0sa ! I just merged the PR.

    Can you try to select the asset, right click and then choose Reimport? it shouldn't look pink anymore after this
     
  35. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Thank you! I reimported but unfortunately it wasn't fixed in my case. I tried another solution I saw on Discord, I went to Shaders>SubGraphs folder, re-saved the ToonShading graph and it worked :)
     
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  36. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I made a demo which shows how we can implement the far away view. Since the demo is mostly about scene loading, I put it there: https://forum.unity.com/threads/scene-loading-system.980178/
     
  37. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    @itsLevi0sa I have carved up your map and created colliders for loading and unloading it as separate scenes (living in a permanent scene). I took care that there are no more than 2 location scenes loaded at any given time but that the player can walk seamlessly from one scene to the next creating this open world feeling. When playing it feels like one giant scene (except for the far away views that I have not yet created - but there is no technical problem with them, as I had shown in the demo). I couldn't use the scene loading system since it automatically unloads the previous location - but I have 2 scripts (onTriggerEnter and onTriggerExit that could easily raise a scene loading/unloading event instead of loading the scene immediately).

    These are the colliiders I use. The load colliders are green and the unload colliders are red (once we are done with fine-tuning them we will of course make them invisible).

    SceneLoadColliders.PNG

    I am not sure whether I can convince Unity to do the 2 locations scenes at a time thing (@Amel-Unity @cirocontinisio?). I wonder whether I should raise a pull request for the demo.
     
  38. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    On the beach's whiteboxing were still these canes that should stop the player from running off to the rest of the map before doing the tutorial. But we have discoved that we would need quite many closely spaced canes to achieve this. Another idea was that Bard Hare had blocked the path with some barrels. Only why would a bard need so many barrels and why would he store them on the path of all places?

    So I thought of a fallen tree as barrier that can be made kind of credible. At the end of the tutorial quest Hamlet could "interact" with the tree, helping Bard Hare to move the fallen tree out of the way (Bard Hare couldn't do it alone but the meal Hamlet cooked made them both incredibly strong). I have already modelled the tree game ready, thinking we could use it in any case somewhere in in the game, even if we decide not to use it as barrier.

    FallenTreeBarrier.PNG FallenTreeBarrier2.PNG
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  39. Amel-Unity

    Amel-Unity

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    I just replied about this approach on the Scene loading system thread, thanks :)
     
  40. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I have started with whiteboxing the forest maze from @itsLevi0sa 's map:

    topDownViewWhiteboxingForestMaze.PNG

    So far I have integrated
    • plant critters and slime critters (possibly the different colored slime critters live in different areas, I could have one or 2 colors then - possibly the green and the brown. I also didn't want to take the rock critters - I assume the live in dry rocky habitats as we would find for example on the rocky path).
    • shiitake mushrooms for picking
    • a pond, a stream and several waterfalls (there is a problem with water shader though). The water gives the player a nice view on the vegetation on the opposite side without having an unexplainably empty space. There are also several way of crossing the water with jumping onto stones or via a fallen tree (I wonder what should happen if the player falls into the water? Is it time for the "we found you unconcious" video then?)
    • gigantic buttress rooted trees where Hamlet can wander between the roots. They also create this typical forest light conditions with shadow and patches of light
    • a ravine and some "stair" - a succession of several steps to jump - to get out of it again
    • some elevated outlook from which the player has a nice view onto the inner part of the forest.
    • outlookForestMaze2.PNG
    • outlookForestMaze.PNG
    I still have some space to accomodate other suggestions. Just let me know and I will see what I can do.

    I also have a problem when the player is in the shadows - the environment it pitch black there even though it's perfectly visible further away from the player. This is quite inconvenient during play - I already fell into the ravine because I couldn't see it. Do I need to place some weak point light's in the shadows?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  41. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    That's cool, @Smurjo, but I'd ask you to wait a second before adding details because I think @itsLevi0sa's whiteboxing needs to be reduced in size a lot. Right now the whole world is gigantic, and it takes a lot of time to traverse it. I think that doesn't really work with the type of game that we're making here, where you would find yourself wandering around often in search of the next item, with little indication of where to go.
    We need to have a much more contained world, to allow players to traverse it fast enough and go from one side to the other in maybe 1 minute, no more. Currently we're talking about almost 5 minutes to go to the beach to the top of the mountain, and I'm talking about running full speed and stopping for nothing, and with no loading times. It's a bit too much.

    We also need to break the map into scenes before we decorate it, not after.

    Other things you touched: I think we should treat water as "insta-kill", maybe in the style of Legend of Zelda where you get teleported on land but you lose half an heart.
     
  42. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    I have broken the map into scenes. Just look above (I actually play it open world with 2 scenes loaded at a time).

    The size thing is more serious... It would have been good to have had that goal before. I think it is doable though, I still have a lot of space in the forest. But we would of course need to compress the complete map first, as the shape of the forest might change.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  43. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    It's not necessarily a goal, it's more of a feedback on the current whiteboxed map. It is for this reason that we are doing whiteboxing, to expose these potential issues.

    Have you tried walking around, moving from the beach all the way up the mountain? What do you think of the size?
     
  44. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    One idea too: maybe the whole island is fine in size, but the playable area is much smaller. Something like this:

    upload_2021-1-24_18-18-13.png

    The purple shapes are playable areas. Each one is one Unity scene.
    By taking an exit (represented by the magenta lines) you are teleported to the other scene.

    This would give us the ability to create a relatively big world, but cut down on travel times and scene size. All of the surrounding geometry would be as I said either a wall mega-prefab, or baked into the skybox.

    Any area which is not the purple shapes, it's not something you can explore.

    ?
     
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  45. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    We must have worked on the same thing in parallel. This my suggestion:
    mapReducedScenes.png
    Of course there will be no teleporting in my world, but I like the idea of showing unaccessible stuff around the really playable areas.

    These were the scenes I had in mind:
    1. Beach
    2. Glade
    3. Fields
    4. Town
    5. Uptown
    6. Forest
    7. Rocky Path (including mountain but the mountain top is inaccessible)
     
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  46. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    What are you thinking in terms of scale? For instance, how big is the beach?

    I calculated that at the current speed, the character takes 15 seconds to run* 100 units, 26 seconds to walk*. This is without any stop or jump.
    A patch of land of 100 units is the current size of TestingGround.

    * Run = moving with Shift pressed, or stick fully tilted.

    This is the current beach on the whiteboxing (the grey cube is 100x100):

    upload_2021-1-24_20-15-50.png

    I think, realistically, we should aim for a walkable area of 100x100 for very open scenes, with some potentially being less (like the first Glade, maybe 70x70?) but never much more. If we do, we should think of alternate paths - maybe unlockable - that allow the player to travel faster later on.

    Also something to keep in mind when thinking sizes: https://forum.unity.com/threads/scene-loading-system.980178/#post-6760096
     
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  47. Smurjo

    Smurjo

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    So far I have scaled down everything by a factor of 4. With the middle parts taken out as well it should be about 20% of the previous size in one dimension (this would reduce it's area to 4% of the current area).

    I don't have it ready yet to walk in it - I will be tomorrow. I hope it doesn't feel to cramped.
     
  48. cirocontinisio

    cirocontinisio

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    Making some tests with the beach location, and baking the rest of the whiteboxed island into a skybox. I baked a probe from very low on the beach, almost water level:

    upload_2021-1-24_23-49-0.png

    One thing that is evident is that we need a specific skybox for each location, since the point of view changes dramatically for close elements when you move a bit. In the example above, the bottom view (Game) is correct, in the top view the illusion is already broken and the Glade, which should be above you and looming, seems far off in the distance.

    So one learning is that we can't have scenes too big also because the point of view would change too much when moving around, especially if moving up and down. So no big slopes, no sets of stairs that take you too high or too low.

    However, I think here the Glade and the rocks behind it shouldn't be in the skybox, but rather one of those Prefab-walls that I mentioned before.
     
  49. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    Good week you all! Thanks to the team for the feedback! (Both here and in the previous livestream). I see now the map needs scaling down quite a lot, it is indeed gigantic (like some of my posts :rolleyes:) I guess that was the purpose of this whitebox, to be able to see each individual area’s needs in relation to the whole and rescale or change while having a common basis. Also, to have an horizon that gives some coherent overviews (and landmarks? for a sense of direction?) and not have the loaded scenes completely disconnected. I really like the combination of @cirocontinisio ’s idea with your revised map @Smurjo ! The revised map makes much better sense now (the rivers have actually a valid starting point now ^^ ) and I think it would be great to implement the idea with the large prefab walls and the skyboxes from the reflection probes just to get the sense of something bigger even though you might not be able to access it. So we could have a specific skybox for each scene and organize the environment based on the reflection’s probe perspective to get the overall outcome “right” perhaps.
    I tried to do it in the Glade exit where you’d see the Town and the bridge leading to it. The Town is all in the Skybox and then for the bridge leading to it (which is part of the Glade) I kinda played with perspective to make it appear in a way that you wouldn’t be able to tell where the 3d stops and the skybox starts. The funny part is that the 3d gets distorted a lot, but in the gameplay this distortion seems legit, even when moving, I post a screenshot of what I mean:
    GladeExample.jpg
    Reminds me of this optical illusion some street artists do to make their 2d art appear 3d. Anyway that’s also what I find interesting in level design, the scale and layout that would perhaps make sense in real life would make absolutely no sense in the game and vice versa (as proven by the general map scale). Really looking forward to the updates on the next stream (Good luck!).
     
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  50. itsLevi0sa

    itsLevi0sa

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    And this is how it looks like while moving (the scene change could happen once you try to get on the bridge for example):
    GladeExample.gif
     
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