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Which forum do we go to in order to discuss customer acquisition, sales, and marketing?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Donatello-the-Stonecutter, Jun 8, 2018.

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What do you think about having a separate forum to discuss Raising Money/Sales/Marketing/Acquisition

  1. Yes. Thank you Unity Forum Masters for helping us get our projects out 'cause your engine enables it

    100.0%
  2. No. I'm just an artist or programmer. I'm not interested in having an income. This is just for fun.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    This is probably my fourth public post here since I started my company 4 weeks ago. I apologize ahead of time if I sound a bit frustrated this evening.

    I get that these are Unity forums and we're supposed to discuss Unity 'things,' however, once our Unity Projects are completed, there should be a Unity: Raising Money/Sales/Marketing/Acquisition/Distribution/Strategic-Tactics section of the forums themselves. What is the point of getting our Unity projects done as an Indie or High-Level Pro Developer if there is no place to discuss these equally important topics.

    I don't know if everyone here has noticed, but everything on the Unity Forum is geared toward 'How to build and complete a project,' and there is nothing here about 'What to do with your project when it's completed.'

    By the way, I get that there is a Unity Ads section and an Analytics section. I also get that there are Unity Connect and Collaborate sections. However, sometimes we have the ability to over compartmentalize things too much. All 6 of these subjects (Raising Money/Sales/Marketing/Acquisition/Distribution/Strategic-Tactics) are equally related and are just as equally important to getting the project done. If we can't get consumer eyes on the products that we create, then whats the point of all this? I hope I'm speaking for others here when I state:

    I am not a professional hobbyist. I don't believe Unity exists for the sake of being a professional hobbyist either. Unity makes money and I want to continue making them money as well.

    We have to get our product out. (We, as in the professionals on this forum and my team as well).

    In addition to my clarity, I am not complaining. Complaining is when an immature individual makes a comment or comments about something that they don't like and are too lazy to take massive action or any action, for that matter, in order to change the environment around them. I have viable solutions that I want to get out to people here because I know that I can help them.

    I thought that General Discussion Forum would be the perfect spot for it, but our last post got shut down. I'm into following the rules, so thank you for helping me stay compliant.

    Michah'El Dan' Atah
    C.E.O. and 3D Animation Director
    YHWHGames!, LLC.
    Michael@YHWHGames.com
     
  2. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    General discussion is the place for it, though it should be on a specific topic or question. We typically create new sub forums when there is a clear need, like if there were a ton of threads on a topic. Those threads do come up from time to time, but not enough to justify a separate area at the moment.
     
    angrypenguin likes this.
  3. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Yeah, that's why I's mostly seen in General these days. It's where the topics I'm interested in come up most often.

    There's a bunch you can add to your list, by the way. Time management, project management, scope, teams, goal setting, platform selection, target audiences...
     
  4. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Yea bro, you get it. All that is extremely important too. Excellent input. I can see combining you idea and mine and coming up with a 'General Business Discussion' thread.
     
  5. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Alright then, do I have permission to either use this post as a hub for both AngryPenguins and my idea until we can get a new forum, or should we create a new-new post for that?
     
  6. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I'm not saying we need another section for that stuff. I was agreeing that if you want to discuss that stuff then General is the place to do it.
     
  7. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Just to let you know big Z, I tried that in my introduction post, but you shut that down too quickly for my taste.
     
  8. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Also, a point worth raising... you present this as if it's about "helping us get our projects out", but then you talk about stuff that does not, in fact, help with "getting projects out".

    Sales, marketing and aquisition don't help get games out. They help them be successful after they're out, but having a kickass marketing strategy will not help you finish a game that you weren't going to finish anyway.

    Raising money could defeinitely help people finish games, but I wouldn't recommend trying that until you already have a track record of being able to reliably finish products. Partly because who's going to give you money if you can't do that? But also partly because even if someone does (it's possible), you're taking a huge risk on yourself by taking money for a thing you don't even know you can do.

    Well, from links to your own website it veered into religious discussion pretty quickly, and that's one of the things that's out of bounds for discussion topics here.
     
  9. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Self-promotion is not allowed here. Also that thread quickly got off topic and ventured into topics we don’t discuss here.

    Also, thread topics should generally be a specific topic to discuss or it loses any value. “General Business” is not a good topic, for example.
     
  10. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Indeed. Check out the "Game dev and criticism" thread for an example of a specific question that lead onto a whole bungh of the type of discussion you seem interested in.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  11. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Yep, I'm in the thread. TY!
     
  12. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Which part now? I can clarify if I need to. TY!


    So far, we're walking in agreement, but not here. I don't agree with you that sales and marketing don't get games out. Production is looked at all wrong and its taught like it was back in the 90's.If you're waiting until the end of Q.A. to do it, you're losing fan-base. The earlier that you can capture fans, the better. The way you capture fans early on is within the Concept-Polish phase of Pre-Visualization. I'm speaking about the case for startups, not for vets or for titles that have an established fan-base.

    I know what you need here is probably a template or a demonstration of what I'm taking about. I'm working on that actually. As soon as I get my new mic in, I plan on holding a free webinar to help clarify things. But for now, we can take it in chunks.


    I agree with you whole heatedly concerning credibility and reputation. I've got one game out making $3,300 a month for the last 7 years. It's not millions, but it doesn't matter. I've got enough value in that to help someone. In 4 weeks I've picked up 3 people to mentor which is bringing the total to 25. I'm doing something right. My business model is beyond self sustaining because I have multiple automated income vehicles, but it isn't for the feint of heart either. It's for people who understand that it goes beyond hard work.

    There's a huge difference between adding value and giving an entire business away for free. I'm into both, but I sure as hell, after 17 years aren't giving away the whole farm away. I didn't go into business to get into debt just so I can be a good guy.

    If I may, you're playing the sheepdog. I get that you want to protect folks and that's honorable. That's what these discussions are for. You don't trust me and I get it. I am totally fine with that for now... You don't know me. Thanks for giving me the chance to help folks.


    Haha, not pretty quickly, instantaneously. It's in the name before you get there. Some people dig religion, some don't. Some people love mental & spiritual health and wellness, some don't. I don't see those topics floating in the forums either. To each his own, however the topics should be allowed for discussion if it helps people out of ruts. I use Unity in my God in Gaming business model because it's my companies unique identifier. People need to know theirs a voice for that. Just like anything else, if they don't want to watch Joel O'Steen, change the channel, right?


    As for self promotion, come on, we have artists and programmers all day that demonstrate what they do. I am an artists, a writer, a philosopher, and a bad ass animator. All of which are useful here. My pure objective, whether people accept it or not, is to help people, period.

    So I guess what you're really saying is that there is a difference between self-promotion and demonstration. <--- Either way, both say, "Look what I can do." Is self-promotion looked down upon cause it's tired to money and demonstration is tied to feelings? :D


    Relenting. I asked, I don't agree, BUT I got the answer I needed to hear. Believe it or not, I really appreciate the kindness.


    Let's move past this justification B.S. and let's get into helping people solve issues.
     
  13. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    I explained in the closed thread, and will explain one last time, this forum has dedicated areas specifically set up for self-promotion/sharing your work, Connect, WIP, Made with Unity, Tutorials and the Asset Store. You absolutely can show off and promote your work in those forums, that is why they exist. NOT in general discussion or elsewhere.

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-developer-network-rules.151486/
     
  14. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    They are not allowed, this is not those place for those type of discussions. There are plenty of places on the internet to discuss those things. Here, discussions are primarily about the use of Unity and secondarily, topics related to game development (and real-time visualization broadly).

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-developer-network-rules.151486/
     
  15. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    I got you chief. Not trying to get you upset. Just trying to understand, that's all. I'll comply, no problem. Thanks for listening anyways.
     
  16. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    No worries, no one is even remotely upset. But it’s saves you and us time and effort if you ask questions if you want to understand and/or review posted info (rules, forum descriptions and mod posts with explanations). Much like development, the guess & check method is the least efficient. ;)
     
  17. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Sounds like you could start by reading the rules.

    Well, I guess that depends a little on what you mean by "out". Personally I read it as "released", ie: completed and out in the wild, available for purchase. The same way that every movie, game and book marketing person has used the term for as long as I can remember.

    What you're talking about seems to be all of the supporting activities that will help it do well at and after that point. I agree that those certainly are important.

    Of course. At no stage did I say you should wait until the end of QA. ;)

    My level of trust for you is informed entirely by the content of your posts.
     
  18. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    High five. Btw, I dig how hard you guys work.
     
  19. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Oh boy could I think of some topics that fit that description...
     
    zombiegorilla likes this.
  20. Donatello-the-Stonecutter

    Donatello-the-Stonecutter

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    Did it before I began, 4 weeks ago. Didn't have the clarity I was looking for. Thanks.


    Penguin, whats going on in your projects that I may be able to help you with? How can I add value by helping you solve your biggest issue? I don't know it all, but I'm willing to gamble that I can help you a smidge.
     
  21. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Are you implying we need a forum just to discuss why there is no dark theme in pro? We could possibly combine it with a splash screen forum. :p
     
  22. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    Excellent idea! We could call it "editor UI discussions". But I was thinking more of subforums for "Can Unity be used to make X?" (with a stickied thread for each of the most common questions like openworld RPG and MMORPG) and "Unity vs other engines" to put all the UE4 related threads etc. there. I could also see "AAA sh*ttalk" be a popular addition. And maybe a forum where people can broker jobs and one for other collaborations... -_-
     
    Kiwasi likes this.
  23. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Definitely. Whenever I see @angrypenguin , I know he needs help. I mean, he seems so angry - perhaps at the notion that he cannot fly.
     
  24. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Well, thank goodness that @Donatello-the-Stonecutter is here!

    Is this a pitch to try earning my trust?

    Generally, if I need help I'll specifically ask for it. Originally, I started hanging out here 'cause I was learning a lot from helping others. So I definitely recommend that. I'm not here to sell anything, though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  25. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Indeed. These forums are full of folks looking for help and asking questions (as well as the Answers site).