Wheres the official list of 'Whats broken in Unity today"?

Its akin to banging your head against a brick wall trying to figure out if its user error or just a poor quality engine presently.

Does Unity maintain a list of its showstopping bugs these days?

Where is it? If there isn't one then one needs to be started so thousands of developers don't also bang their heads against the wall.

 

Here you go:

http://issuetracker.unity3d.com

 

http://issuetracker.unity3d.com/pro...&category=&view=newest&unity_version=released

 

So this is just another one of Unity's broken and flawed attempts of collating user data.

Of the handful of issues I have encountered none of them are listed and we quickly jump back to 2014 when using the search feature.

What I mean is, wheres the list of broken stuff, according to Unity Technologies?

 

What could they possibly provide that's not just a duplicate of the issue log? I mean, a showstopping bug for one project might be a non-issue for another, so they can't narrow down their separate list.

And even supposing that they could, how much time would they spend maintaining that list which could instead be put into the issues themselves?

If you're finding issues that aren't in there, please hit the report button and get 'em in!

 

Last I was aware entries underwent checking before being posted. Therefore the issue tracker is what you want.

 

I suppose if they don't have in house QA then they can't know the bugs they are releasing. So fair call.

I'm happy to report bugs properly and thoroughly, but I don't actually work for free.

Because literally every bug report ends up being for someone elses projects benefit, (No bug every has been fixed instantly) why would I report a bug when I can put that time and effort into seeking a workaround?

 

No if the Unity guys were saying "ok here is release xxxx but please be aware the following things aren't working.."

Then that would save us a mountain of time.

This database is user found bugs, that have been reported. Not all bugs, and not a list of bugs known to the software developers, that have knowlingly shipped with Unity..

 

There are known issues listed with some releases (5.0, 5.1, 5.2, etc) in the release notes.

 

What, exactly, do you think that list of known issues would look like?

There's a lot of issues in the tracker. Do you want them to copy-paste the full list at the time into the release notes? You'll end up with the same issues searching that list. Alternatively, they could spend time writing a new list of only the most relevant ones? In that case, how specifically do they decide which ones are relevant? If they pick what's relevant to me it probably won't be relevant to you...

So... what you're saying is that you're not happy to report bugs.

At the same time, you're also unhappy that people haven't reported the specific bugs you've run into. Perhaps they were following the same logic as you, and didn't see the point, because it wouldn't benefit them immediately and didn't bother.

 

Are you after the known issues in the release notes?

https://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-5.3

The other resource that might be of value is the road map. It provides a high level view of what the Unity developers are planning to work on in the engine.

https://unity3d.com/unity/roadmap

 

Not exactly. They are still user reported bugs, not declarations of engine shortcomings from Unity Tech. - It seems the release notes are where I ought to look (Cheers Bored Mormon)

Exactly. You've isolated the problem with the user-based bug reporting model. Reporting a bug won't ever help a user facing that bug right there, right then, with time, client expectations and economic budgets in mind. It will only ever at best, help someone else in the future. Maybe.

Which is fine if you're in this to be charitable. Correction, if we're all in this to be charitable.
But some of us are trying to get a job done, in real world working conditions, and that time is better spent finding workarounds. Always.

Many of us are under the knife with deadlines and budgets to adhere to.
Why would anyone spend that time creating case examples of bugs for Unity that the developers should have already picked up and warned us about?*

*But on that note I will check the release notes now and most certainly in the future.

But 6 tonnes more QA sure wouldn't hurt.

 

Because I've been using Unity to get jobs done for many years now, and there's a strong possibility that I will still be using it to get jobs done many years from now. So sure, while reporting a bug might not help me on this project, there's the distinct possibility it'll help future me on another one.

Plus, there's the communal spirit. If everyone didn't report bugs because it only benefited other people then nobody would report bugs, which would be to the detriment of everyone - including me. (I'm sure there's a game theory study of exactly this scenario, but I can't think of its name.) So, I report them.

 

Something along the lines of my project is viable now because of a big you reported six months ago.

There is always a balance between scope/quality, time, and cost. More QA would mean slower feature releases, or less features, or a higher engine cost.

For some users this would be a sensible trade off. For others Unity has the balance right.

I personally think they are about right. But then I've only ever encountered one breaking bug. And the work around was simple. The hardest part was the three hours it took for me to realise it was a bug and not PEBKAC.

 

Found it.

 

The official offered solution for professionals needing workarounds or detailed info regarding problems is Premium Support.
It is relatively afforda....oh, wait. No it's not even remotely affordable or suitable for smaller studios / indies any more.

So, you are on your own. Nice, eh?

(Yeah, a blatant snipe. Sorry about that. But I am *really* upset at the way smaller professional devs are being treated.)

 

We could go back to the days of game engines costing hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. We are getting this level of support precisely because Unity is so easily affordable that it has attracted a massive user base. I feel like the concept of Triple Constraint applies here too.

A powerful game engine, an affordable game engine, and good technical support. Pick two.

I feel like many who are complaining about the lack of good technical support are simply unrealistic. What is the cost of hiring an engineer capable of answering your questions? It certainly is not $75/mo or $1,500 plus $750 every two years.

 

Do you seriously believe in that?

To talk about communal spirit, you need completely free product.
When the product is not free (which is the case with unity), there is no longer "communal spirit". Instead, it is "we walk together as long as our goals match. And when our goals no longer match, we part ways".

Pure business.

Unity is financially interested in their users. So, it is in their interest to fix issues quickly and attract more users, which will increase chance of financial gain from those. If people get disappointed, they leave. If enough of them leaves, product will die. And that is fine.

It is the usual thing in life in general, might as well get used to it.

I think it is "pick one" in this situation.

 

A product doesn't need to be completely free to have members with a communal spirit. Many Unity developers are hobbyists who have a passion for game development but cannot make it or wish to separate it from their income profession.

 

I don't believe in that approach and let's just leave it at that.
Contracts and agreements work better.

Also, to my experience appeals to morality/greater good/community spirit/whatever are often (not in this case, but in general) used in order to fool people into working for free, which stinks.

In the end, people are not obliged to try to fix unity's mess and bugs, but on the other hand it is reasonable for them to expect product to work as advertised.

 

That thing is not an issue tracker, same with the feature suggestions.. its just to useless to be useful imo. Maybe something you look at for 5mins on a mobile device at a lunch break while you're bored.

The layout is just terrible... 10results per page, large fonts, large padding, totally useless, doesn't even show which items have comments... frankly it looks like it was designed not to be used, maybe by someone without a clue as to what the purpose of an issuetracker is for but who had much love for the mobile 'responsive web design' ..thus its kinda rubbish.

 

Not sure what you expect. Do you think every developer using an in-house engine at big companies has instant access to engineers who work on the engine and the developers are able to set the priority list for those engineers? It works exactly the same way, you report the issue to the team and they prioritize the fixes. The more people that are being affected, or the bigger the issue, the faster it is worked on. It works almost exactly the same as the issue tracker here at Unity.

Post the issue, make other developers aware of the issue and hope they escalate your issue, and then wait for the engine team to fix it. Not sure there is anyplace except very small studios where it would work differently, and certainly no engine the size of Unity could work differently. The issue tracker is the issue tracker, with the patch notes being a minor starting place.

 

You know I feel the same way about windows, at least Unity don't auto-patch you!

Epic don't seem to have one or CryTek (without a premium license) so it seems you could say it's 'state of the art' for indie friendly engines and besides who really wants to expose their critical systems to the unwashed masses? Steam can't even hold a sale without denial of service attacks for no apparent reason. I think this falls into the category: Security; reduced attack surface.

If you are financially vested in their business and have something to contribute and are paying support costs its another matter, personally I understand that. As designers/developers/etc we also know that a bug can be logged and squashed in an hour or it could take days of working out the best way to change something without breaking everything else, it could even motivate a re-design of a subsystem. Not something you would want an 'internet' reaction to before had a chance to consider in detail because you had an idea and added a note and some bright spark decided to sensationalize it. Best to keep *some* of these cards close.

Would recommend keeping a few versions of the engine to verify that what you are experiencing is a bug rather than a feature that has not been implemented the way you think it has or some other misunderstanding but other than that you have only the patch notes and the whole internet to query.

No consolation if you cant get satisfaction for sure but the fact is that Unity is a framework that we build upon, if no-one else in the entire world has encountered and logged your issue then as you say it's probably best to find another route or ask for guidance on how the feature you are developing is usually implemented. And probably to log the issue so that a formal fix can be eventually delivered or ignored as appropriate.

I'm pretty sure they'll keep an eye on the unofficial tracker too...

 

The issue tracker needs some work. It is very confusing right now, someone from Unity (I believe it was @Aurore ?) agrees as well, because right now you can't even easily tell if the bug you submitted made it onto the issue tracker or not.

Other than that though, I think Unity has been transparent enough.

 

Yeah, I do, and at the same time agree it's also "pure business". As explained, there are long term benefits to being a part of a community and working towards its overall benefit. That's all I'm referring to as "community spirit".

Perhaps the term "spirit" is misleading or offputting to some?

 

It is clear you do not even know the pricing structure for Premium Support. Again, we are not talking about free support, at least I am not. I am talking about the point that Unity is no longer even willing to sell support at premium prices. Again, pay attention.

 

This<3

Okay, I've tried to hold off on replying here, because it's pretty obvious how the flow of this (and just about every other critique of Unity) thread is going, but I've really got to throw my hat in here.

The issue tracker needs a lot of love. The search bar is useless, the overall structure is clunky and awkward, and trying to find the droids you're looking for is about as arduous a process as it gets*.

Someone posted a bug report ID number in another thread. I tried putting that in the search bar and got a good laugh out of that. So then I went and googled "Unity Issue Tracker 723842" which turned up even more nothing. So then I googled "Unity how to search issue tracker by ID" and that turned up a feedback item saying you should be able to search the Issue Tracker by ID.

Even if that third search was fruitful, it's still not at all obvious how that's supposed to work. If someone has to google how to use your tool because you've failed to adequately explain it, then there's a problem.

That being said, I love Unity. I love everyone who works there. Now fire away.


* Money says someone references a worse system in defense.

 

We could take this one step further. The search feature for every portion of this site is worthless.

 

You are just looking at it wrong. I agree the search functionality is useless for finding relevant infomation. But if your objectives are simply to lock your browser up and have a frustrating experience, then the search feature can be very useful indeed.

 

My biggest complaint is when it comes time to search the docs. I just tried a very simple search of the APIs for the keyword "Find" and literally sat there watching the clock tick by. A few seconds I could understand but I saw it go as high as a minute before simply giving up. They would be better off having it redirect you to Google.

 

Yeah, I almost always search via Google rather than the built-in ones.

With that in mind, why not open up anything that's still not open to Google (like the issue tracker?) and then swap out the built-in search tools for some Google ones with some pre-configured filters to only show content from unity3d.com?

 

Out of morbid curiosity, I'd like to see their implementation of the search feature. Interested in seeing why seemingly simple improvements have yet to be implemented (FYI, I'm very familiar with seemingly easy changes at my day job, so not trying to trivialize it, just curious. ).

I'd be content in the short term if they would just add a way to restrict results to a user defined date range and make pages 2+ keep the page header (search bar, etc.) so I don't have to back out to search again. Search on current results would be nice too.

 

While I sympathise with you I disagree somewhat as your position doesn't consider:

1. Will your workaround work in all situations? (maybe/maybe not - your testing will be limited compared to a publicly released fix by Unity)
   
   
2. How much maintenance will your workaround take? This is the killer IMO - workarounds are that, workarounds, which tend to be less reliable and require more maintenance. Workarounds should be as temporary as practical.

IMO, both are necessary. Submit a bug report as the primary way to address the issue. Implement a workaround until a proper fix is made available.

There's nothing charitable about it - it's a necessity for the improvement of Unity. It's an investment into the tool that you directly benefit from.

I agree a better 'known issues' list with each release would be VERY nice.

 

There are some info here

http://martiancraft.com/blog/2014/08/an-unreal-decision/
http://www.extroforge.com/the-switch-from-unity-3d-to-unreal-engine/
http://80.lv/articles/source-interview-the-transition-from-unity-to-unreal-engine/

It's very project specific. Some projects are better in Unreal, some in Unity. You can actually pay a consultant (like me) who's experienced enough to walk you through for your project. Our time is also not free, ya know.