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Question What Would Make You Happy?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CursiveCrow, Feb 15, 2024.

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  1. retired_unity_saga

    retired_unity_saga

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    I can't believe this is real.
     
  2. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    It had one before. It was called UnrealScript. They removed it.
     
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  3. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2024
  4. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

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    I think verse could potentially be good overall for most of our purposes, as long as using it isn't tied to the weird fortnite/metaverse economy nonsense he also mentions in that post

    Overall from looking at verse its a bit like python or gdscript in godot, or something like lua - its a super simple scripting language but that pretty much makes sense alongside blueprints for more design level stuff, and c++ for the more engineering level stuff - verse can sit happily in the middle to handle most of the gameplay level side of things that sits in between those two extremes
     
  5. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    I'm starting to think I'm the only one that looks at it and immediately thinks of Pascal. :p
     
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  6. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    Lol, in my defense I didn't say IAP does not make your project not a game, just not considered as one. I'm going to address an obvious strawman as well which is "well if you don't add microtransactions in your game, how will you fund its development?", simple, you were supposed to plan out your entire budget in the beginning. You would determine to a very precise value, the time it would take your entire game to develop, how much money it would take, how many people would be involved, all before actually making it as a complete product, and you should consider this budget without external funds or crowdsourcing.

    This was the practice done for decades in the golden age of video games. A lead would draw out the story, calculate the net cost of making the entire project, and begin work only when all the prerequisites have been satisfied, and that was how older titles were able to release as complete products in a timely manner.

    Nowadays, it seems like the story has become stagnant and unoriginal, the mechanics not innovative in any considerable way, and many seems to be in perpetual development, with delays after delays even from big game studios.

    But the kicker here is that a lot have IAP/microtransactions, like the self proclaimed "AAAA" title Skull and Bones. Even Bethesda started getting flak and a noticeable downgrade in their titles when they tried to monetize mods, turning them into microtransaction products, and force players to pay money for something that was once completely free... Maybe there's a connection...

    Anyways, this is as far down as I will go in the rabbit hole..
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2024
  7. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    I see Swift influenced Pascal.

    And it's way too fussy and pedantic for its target audience. Heavily swayed by the functional cruft that inspired much of Swift. Not nearly enough Lua dynamism and meta-ing.
     
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  8. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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  9. Spy-Master

    Spy-Master

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    Triple negative’s a biatch, ain’t it.

    I’m sure small-time indie developers appreciate things like this that lower the barrier to entry for developing and monetising their content. It’s cool that you believe microtransactions mean the software “shouldn’t really be considered a game,” but that doesn’t mean that no good can come out of these tools existing. Things really are fine as it is, better for scammers to rely on a robust set of APIs than cobble together some broken mess of spaghetti that eats half the requests (point being, don’t imagine for one second that deleting Unity’s tools magically prevent any other tool from working - you will not be solving any problem whatsoever).

    I recognize this thread is for sharing what would make us happy, so thanks for your opinion. I guess I’d like for unified-backed classic / DOTS animation to come out and be good, editor iteration times to not suck, and a decent way to have dead-simple modding support without having to use sluggish mono.
     
  10. IOU_RAY

    IOU_RAY

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    The editor not running like I'm trying to open a Crysis game on a Pentium III with the Turbo button turned off.

    Them not constantly breaking things in services because they don't test anything yet have more bureaucracy than modern governments, and proof/transparency of their workflow and work ethics to regain trust.

    I've gone through insane hell over the years with my products, but the frustrations I deal with every day I dive into development; I've never been so close to tossing in the towel and just moving away from Game Development entirely. Unity has made it beyond miserable after putting trust and reliance into the Unity engine and the services it provides. It would be literally life changing if Unity stopped acting like it's constantly constipated and can't muster a proper priority or positive result.

    TL;DR: Priorities.
     
  11. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I'm not seeing begin, end, interface, module, var is not a section and variables can be declared midfunction.

    There's slight resemblance, of course, but IIRC pascal resembles lua and resembles basic at the same time, so what I saw online looks like another frankenstein.
     
  12. PanthenEye

    PanthenEye

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    It's hardly a lower barrier to entry when mobile games are dominated by multibillion publishers investing tens up to hundreds of thousands in user acquisition daily so that they can dominate top game lists, which is the only form of discovery on mobile. It's way harder than Steam.

    But discussing IAPs and other related services is irrelevant when that's the whole reason Unity can even exist at this scale. Unless someone has a time machine, these aren't going anywhere and are in fact the focus of the company.
     
  13. stonstad

    stonstad

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    This hasn’t been suggested yet, and so I’ll share: Large world coordinate support — double precision. UE has had it for ages and it makes large open worlds easier to create. Floating origins break many Unity systems and create needless complexity. UE has shown that it is not only possible, but performant.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2024
  14. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    This isn't true at all.
     
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  15. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    ... I'd expect majority of IAP games to be F2P timewasters. Or moneywasters.

    For those sort of decisions I believe you have to be in position of power first.
     
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  16. PanthenEye

    PanthenEye

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    It's also the largest market segment for Unity so it's a pipe dream.
     
  17. spiney199

    spiney199

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    Thing is micro-transactions in MMO's were somewhat non-existant until it was found to be a viable avenue for monetisation in mobile games. And even then they're only really for cosmetics.

    And as much as most people don't want to admit it, a lot of games wouldn't be able to sustain themselves without mtx to keep the cash flowing. Servers are expensive.
     
  18. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Vast majority are shovelware mobile titles on Android and iOS. Every day there are more games released for these two platforms using IAPs than there are major MMOs let alone MMORPGs.
     
  19. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Also, even if we discard those games, IAP is integrated into a lot of AAA releases in general. Pretty much no microtransactions are handled outside for the game client exclusively anymore.
     
  20. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    Actually, they're "AAAA" games now. Skull & Bones has IAP, though I'm not sure why a multi million dollar company like Ubisoft would need any more money from their playerbase..
     
  21. darthdeus

    darthdeus

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    Significantly improved iteration speed would go a very long way. Now that hot reload exists things are much better, but I still find myself staring at an asset refresh progress bar when I add a single field. There's many threads on this issue on the forum already, it'd be great if we could go back the way things were in Unity 2018 or even 5, where things were still incredibly fast. That'd make me extremely happy.

    Right now I'm at a state where I only use Unity because the hot reload asset exists.
     
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  22. allenrobot

    allenrobot

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    When I open a new project using the default options of a 3d starting point, it has like 42 compiler errors. Perhaps the example projects should work properly.
     
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  23. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Skull & Bones had a lower development cost than GTA 5 which is still classified as "AAA". In my opinion Ubisoft just wanted to hype up a game that they knew wasn't very good.

    To continue to grow as a company. :p
     
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  24. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    You mean one of the "3D Sample Scenes"? URP or HDRP?
     
  25. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Meet capitalism. Its aim isn't to make the best of anything, the only perceivable goal is to squeeze as much money out of people as possible. No other target ever can be trusted (if they say they have, it's a cover to gain even more money).
    Capitalism always needs ALL the money, not just a lot of.
     
  26. Ne0mega

    Ne0mega

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    I'd say most games are made to make a buck. People always looking for a big hit, looking for demographics, people/studios making games they generally would not play themselves. Look at educational or childrens games.

    Dont flippantly call fellow game devs criminals just because you dont like their monetization strategy.

    Free is often the best marketing. Without it, many games would never see daylight.

    Who is this "we" you are talking about?
    I think most people have no problems with microtransactions, and certainly not dlcs or other after-product options.
     
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  27. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Skinner box factory workers aren't game devs. They are computerized conveyor belt workers.
    They may not be criminals, but the company they are working for borderline is. But that's only my opinion, obviously.
     
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  28. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Free games let you play the game so you know what you get. The risk of scam is higher with prepaid games.
    That those games we are talking about are making use of psychological knowledge with the goal to cause addiction is another story :D
    Blaming Unity for providing just monetization tools is silly no matter what.
     
  29. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    It looks like the growth is inverse to their revenue. As if the more money they get from microtransactions, the more the quality of their game decline... Interesting..
     
  30. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Mmm... not really?

    Normal Free 2 Pay title likely will try to get you hooked. They'll show you fun beginning, slowly up the difficulty, and then ask for payment information so you buy some gems or something. Then they'll try to make you addicted by asking you to visit periodically to win prizes and so on.
     
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  31. spiney199

    spiney199

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    This is despite many other great games out there with micro-transactions.

    Is Helldivers 2 a bad game solely because it has micro-transactions? I think the majority would say no, it is not.

    You're digging a pretty daft hole for yourself here.
     
  32. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    Yep, 90% to be precise, Sturgeon's Law. Though as much as I would love to find comfort being in the majority, I prefer to take the less beaten path and try something new, even if it entails a higher risk.
     
  33. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    Helldivers 2 is literally Star Wars.
     
  34. spiney199

    spiney199

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    That is completely beside the point???
     
  35. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Are any of the EA microtransaction infested abomination a good game? No. The majority still says yes, otherwise they wouldn't buy them seeing the advertisement in the mid-break at the random soccer game. Or something.

    Helldivers maybe is an outlier. (I haven't taken a look at it yet, so I'm just relying on what others say so far)
     
  36. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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    And Palworld is literally Pokemon.
     
  37. spiney199

    spiney199

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    I feel like when folks think of micro-transactions they think of the egregious examples first. Though there's plenty of games that use them in a reasonable manner, while also being good games themselves. Path to Exile is one example, a F2P game where micro-transactions are only for cosmetics, and it is a genuinely fun game to play.

    It is most likely the case that most cases of MTX are exploitive, but I feel as if this is a case of "There are no bad pets, only bad owners."

    The sodding hell is your point? At this point you haven't got anything meaningful to say.
     
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  38. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Nah, just because you find one or two exceptions from the rule, that doesn't mean that the vast majority of microtransactioned games aren't boring skinner boxes tailored to on ways for the player to need or have to buy stuff. Plus there is the exploitation, sometimes children. You know, Unreal developers get those free stuff because many children were shamed that they don't buy the next super "it's just cosmetics", well-marketed BS microtransacted non-tangible items and stuff.

    Microtransaction = worse games, more boring exploitation-machines. I would never, ever work for or on a game employs it.
     
  39. spiney199

    spiney199

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    I disagree. Seeing as there are and can be good games with MTX - albeit the minority (which I acknowledged) - would indicate they can be used as a way to monetise in a constructive way that benefits both player and dev. Just in the majority of cases, it isn't.

    It's always the human greed factor that ruins anything.
     
  40. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I cannot name a single game I played that had microtransactions and that was a positive experience. So likely scenario is that good games with MTX are exception.

    By the way, what is even being discussed at this point?
     
  41. spiney199

    spiney199

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    I would say you have, but you either didn't realise they did have MTX, or have forgotten that you did.

    That or you don't play many games. Or just don't play the good ones. :u

    Someone saying they wish Unity would get rid of their IAP services because they believe mtx == bad game, so the usual moral debate around that ensues.

    But yes we're very offtopic at this point.
     
  42. impheris

    impheris

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    they nailed the battle pass thing, i've seen my brother being addicted to that bs on Destiny, "because you paid for something now is your responsability to been here everyday to reach that goal, and btw look, we have these others things that are not in the battlepass that you can buy too"

    The thing is (and why everything is an annoying trend now, like AI) that they figure out they can make a pretty cheap unfinished product with bugs, glitches, with lack of content (reminds you of something?) but hyped af to make everyone to play the game and buy things, they don't spend too much but they get lots of your money. In the case of sea of thiefs is a pretty bad idea in general tho, because of the many years in dev but there are a lots of whales out there.

    Going back to the thread: another thing that would make my happy (becasue is kind of annoying at least for me) is a better package manager/asset store system -.- my god what a mess...
     
  43. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Am tired of Palworld being referred to as a pokemon-like game. Yeah it has pokemon-like creatures in it, but the gameplay is entirely different. It is not turnbased combat and more focused on own constructions than story focused.
    It definitely doesn't have success primarily because recent pokemon games disappointed.
     
  44. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    On the contrary it wouldn't because the microtransactions are funding the development of that particular game.
     
  45. khiemgluong

    khiemgluong

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  46. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    This has devolved in general chit-chat. Closed. Use the discord if you just want shoot the breeze.
     
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