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What to do right now?

Discussion in 'Input System' started by Innovine, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. Innovine

    Innovine

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Posts:
    522
    Hey guys,
    I have not been following the development of the new input system in great detail, sorry. Perhaps someone can help me out and make a recommendation...

    I want to start a new project now, and one of the first things I need to do is get some joystick support up. I tried this a few months ago with the old input system. I am using a HOTAS with extra joysticks, where some of the joystick models are identical. In the Input window I ended up creating hundreds of mappings, for every JoyXaxisY, and then implemented a "learn" function to map the axis to my custom actions. This worked ok, but required re-learning now and then when the joysticks changed ID (the names from GetJoystickNames being identical :( )

    Is the New Input System in a state where I can do something better, without having to go through the pain of creating all the possible axes? I don't need bleeding edge features, just something that can handle multiple input devices (where some are the same model of joystick). Or should I just go and set up hundreds of axes again? Or what about Rewired or similar?
     
  2. Rene-Damm

    Rene-Damm

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,779
    Joystick support is still on the TODO list. We have the backend support in place but the system isn't turning the discovered devices into joysticks yet.

    If you're only interested in working with a specific joystick / HOTAS setup for now, hooking that up in the new system is relatively straightforward and you may even be able to get away with just the generic HID support that's in the system already but there will be bumps along the way.

    If you simply want to get up and running as fast as possible and have minimal fuzz and a stable system, I recommend looking into Rewired.
     
  3. longroadhwy

    longroadhwy

    Joined:
    May 4, 2014
    Posts:
    1,551
    It is easy to recommend Rewired hands down. Download the free trial version of Rewired to see what it is like before you have to purchase it.

    http://guavaman.com/projects/rewired/trial.html

    It has the best controller support including all of the popular HOTAS and joysticks and Puma helicopter controller too. Works great. It just cool to plug in a HOTAS system and have Rewired tell you exactly what you have.

    Check out the entire list you have to scroll down to the middle to see all of the HOTAS systems supported.

    http://guavaman.com/projects/rewired/docs/SupportedControllers.html

    Saitek X-45, X-52, X-52 PRO, X-55, X-56,
    ThrustMaster the famous WartHog HOTAS, TCSW Throttle, T16000M joystick, ThrustMaster Joystick, etc.
    All of the CH Products: FighterStick, CombatStick, FlightStick Pro, Pro Throttle.
    Pro Flight: Puma Helicopter controller.
    Flight Yokes: Saitek Pro Flight yoke, and CH Products Eclipse Yoke.
    Flight Pedals: ThrustMaster, Saitek, and CH Products.

    Every popular HOTAS system I have tried has just worked.

    Do not forget the racing wheels and various pedal sets and also a ship controller.

    Have to support trains: RailDriver works great too.

    There are tons of game pads too.
     
  4. Innovine

    Innovine

    Joined:
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    Posts:
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    Does Rewired let me use two identical T16000m sticks? I did look at the demo a few months back but from what I remember it wasn't able to distinguish consistently which stick was which, and I wasn't particularly interested in the rest of it... so I just went with the standard unity stuff. Was i too quick to dismiss it do you think?
     
  5. longroadhwy

    longroadhwy

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    1,551
    Two T16000m sticks for one player? What platform Windows/Mac/Linux?

    I have seen that configuration (two sticks for player) mentioned on the Elite Dangerous forums that some have used but that is it. I only have one T16000m so I cannot test it.

    How old are your T16000M sticks? Because mine is the old green version before they changed to the new orange color for "elite dangerous marketing".

    Did you purchase one of the dual stick packages from ThrustMaster or just purchased two t16000M sticks separately?

    http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/t16000m-fcs-space-sim-duo

    Are you running any special software (e.g. ThrustMaster Target) to make them appear as one device to windows?

    Based on this discussion in this other thread. It seems that are very different results for players. Some say it just worked right out of the box and others had to do configuration with Target.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8excty/ive_updated_my_dual_joystick_setup_guide_for/

    This comment in particular is really interesting.

    >>>
    i also use two t16000m, and i have to use TARGET. Windows "mixes them up", so that sometimes the left one is stick 1, and sometimes the right one. I think it may have to do with registering the same device class and type - don't really know though.
    TARGET identifies them correctly, and binds them into one device.
    <<<

    If the Windows operating system is getting confused that is a huge problem. It would be nice if the people posting in that thread indicated what specific version of Windows they were using to get better context

    So it seems like ThrustMaster's Target software is the same as CH Products ControlMapper in that can put multiple usb devices and have them appear as one device. In CH Products case most of the really old games only supported one device (game controller) so it was used to make CH Products (FighterStick/Pedals/Pro Throttle) appear as one device.

    So in your case, your expected customer base is already familiar with using TARGET software to setup the twin sticks accordingly? That does seem like it could be a large amount customer support calls if your customers are just expecting plug in two sticks and have it just work. It would good to get more information on what version of Windows they various people posting in that thread to get some more details. Such as when did they purchase their T16000M sticks? What version of Windows? Are they using USB 3.0 or USB 2.0 ports? Are they using Powered USB hubs or directly plugged into the host PC? If they had problems did they uninstall any drivers and/or clean out the registry before trying again?


    In my context of my application (flight sim) I would not think anyone using that type of configuration. In my context everyone would be using a specific HOTAS. In my particular case more are concerned about support for their particular brand of HOTAS (e.g. Saitek X-55 or ThrustMaster WartHog or CH Products setup) being supported.
     
  6. Innovine

    Innovine

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
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    They are the orange version, and I bought one bundled with throttle and rudder pedals, and then bought a standalone one extra.

    At the moment this is just my own hobby project on windows, but who knows if one day it extends to others. Not really a concern at the moment.

    There's a switch on the bottom of each stick, which indicates left and right, and which the Target software presumably uses. I don't use target though because then i run into a limit on the amount of axes a "single" device can have.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  7. longroadhwy

    longroadhwy

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    In theory there should not be any difference between the green version and orange version of the T16000M. The green one has the same switch on the bottom for left or right. The left and right does show up on the thrustmaster control panel but it is grayed out for some reason. I never had to load a driver for my green version just plugged it in and operating system found the right driver. It might be specific to what ThrustMaster driver got loaded depending on on windows variant. In least in some of the newer usb devices (e.g. like ThrustMaster racing wheels) they have downloadable firmware for the controller in addition to the usb driver. That can have some subtle changes also not counting the operating system usb changes. Do not know if new orange models have firmware update capability.

    Have you used the T16000M, TCWS Throttle and rudder pedals? I have purchased the different pieces in my case but that seems to work fine for HOTAS. Just curious if you prefer the dual sticks over the HOTAS setup you purchased originally.

    That is interesting Thrustmaster's TARGET software gives you limits on the number of axes a "single" device can have. It should only be 8 total axes (stick left/right, twist and throttle for each stick).
     
  8. longroadhwy

    longroadhwy

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    They do have new drivers (at least newer) then I have installed (Package 2017_FFD_1) on the website. You consider installing that if you do not have it installed already.

    https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/product/t16000m-en/

    But specifically it mentions both T16000M sticks are different as mentioned in the releases. I did not know they made that level of distinction.

    http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download..._drivers/Package_2017_FFD_1_Release-Notes.txt

    >>
    - T.16000M
    - T.16000M FCS
    <<