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What the heck is ironSource?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CorWilson, Jul 13, 2022.

  1. CorWilson

    CorWilson

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    Not even on the Unity announcement did they explain who they are.

    So is it just an ads service?
     
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  2. alfredbaudisch

    alfredbaudisch

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    I also still have no idea what the merge is all about and what is ironSource and what does it have to do with Unity and gamedev.

    Seems to be focused on creating viral mobile games + 100% ad focused?

    "The combination of Unity and ironSource better supports creators of all sizes by giving them all the tools they need to create and grow successful apps in gaming and other consumer-facing verticals like e-commerce"
    https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/s...tion-play-for-gaming-and-interactive-content/

    "In the near term, ironSource's mediation platform will leverage the combined strength of the two companies' ad networks to deliver increased user reach and data scale, and provide an increased return on ad spend to advertisers."
    https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...ty-Announces-Merger-Agreement-with-ironSource


    "ironSource will merge into a wholly-owned subsidiary of Unity via an all-stock deal"
     
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  3. andyz

    andyz

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    Poorly written blog post right?
    They (for unspecified fee) help you monetize and advertise your mobile app.

    Interesting they say they are merging with them? Technical term for buying?
    Edit: Actually merging of 2 traded companies is probably just a share swap
     
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  4. alfredbaudisch

    alfredbaudisch

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    It's interesting that a Mobile Ad company is buying a thing where mobile is just a fraction of it.
     
  5. CorWilson

    CorWilson

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    Technically, Unity is used a lot in the mobile development space. Lots of job openings of mobile companies wanting Unity developers.
     
  6. Moonjump

    Moonjump

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    A large percentage of Unity income is from their mobile ads service, and are merging with a highly (possibly the most) successful company in that area, which has a more complete services solution for devs. It appears far more relevant to Unity than any of their recent purchases.
     
  7. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I've literally had to use MalwareBytes to remove some of their adware from computers in the past so that's... cool...
     
  8. CodeSmile

    CodeSmile

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  9. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Cool merger, bros.

    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/detections/adware-ironcore/
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ironsource-denies-its-for-malware-2015-3

    If you've worked in even the basics of computer security, IronSource is a name you probably already know. They are a primary delivery system used for packaged installers, they were a massive part of the whole "accidentally downloaded Chrome with loads of extensions" thing that happened a few years back because they never really ever vetted their users, and they were also the primary source of adware on Mac computers.

    How anyone looked at this company and said "aw yeah, that's the good stuff" would surprise me if we didn't have a bunch of layoffs where people said that it was a real S***show behind the scenes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  10. bonickhausen

    bonickhausen

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    well that's depressing.
     
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  11. luispedrofonseca

    luispedrofonseca

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    Unity is REALLY trying to make us look into Godot and UE5...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  12. GCatz

    GCatz

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  13. Henrarz

    Henrarz

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    Unity gets most money from advertising so it’s no wonder they try to expand their profitable side of the business.
     
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  14. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Wow.....awesome. o_O
     
  15. jiraphatK

    jiraphatK

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    One disheartening news after another this year It's like Unity is trying the hardest to commit sucicide. If only I am not committed to the project in production, I'll probaly look to learn other engine for real this time.
     
  16. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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  17. Zephus

    Zephus

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    Did Unity's stock price just drop by almost 18% today or am I seeing this wrong? Holy crap. This seems bad. Like, beginning of the end bad. First the mismanaged Editor in the last few years, then the lay-offs and now a merger with a scummy adware company? What the hell is going on?
     
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  18. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    It's a long time discontinued product, plus the article is everything but purely positive.
    Also, with 100 million downloads a day, even if that's only half true, it's kinda inevitable that it has been used by 3rd parties with malicious intent. They just were the biggest player back then for monetizable installers and thus also the biggest target...

    The whole industry fluctuates a lot. They were lower a couple weeks ago.
     
  19. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    You're missing the point, quite intentionally I'd wager. First of all, by "long discontinued" do you mean "two years discontinued?" Do you not seem to understand that having that warning on a Wikipedia article at all is the problem, not the fact that it isn't a glowing article that had those things edited in after this warning went up? Do you think that IronSource's history as adware from their own actions is meaningless here?

    This is a company with a long history of this. This isn't new behaviour and it's not behaviour that just magically goes away. As I already said:

     
  20. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Unity stock down 17% today and falling since announcement.
     
  21. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    None of this is really out of step with Unity's stock performance in general, in fairness.

    upload_2022-7-13_15-2-53.png
     
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  22. chingwa

    chingwa

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    "Transformative combination forms the industry’s first end-to-end platform to power creators’ success as they build, run, manage, grow, and monetize live games and real-time, 3D content –"

    "We believe the world is a better place with more successful creators in it. The combination of Unity and ironSource better supports creators of all sizes by giving them all the tools they need to create and grow successful apps in gaming and other consumer-facing verticals like e-commerce,” said John Riccitiello"


    Blah blah blah. I've read three different announcements and I have no idea what any of this corporate gobbledegook is supposed to mean.


    "Highly accretive merger is expected to deliver a run rate of $1 billion in Adjusted EBITDA by the end of 2024, and $300 million in annual EBITDA synergies by year three."

    This blurb from BusinessCrunch seems closer to the actual goal here, though I also have no idea what it means for Unity.
     
  23. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Well, WHEW! :D
     
  24. andyz

    andyz

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    DungDajHjep and Tanner555 like this.
  25. Oknees

    Oknees

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    Damn this news just made me realise what the heck has been going on with unity especially the management side.

    First, laying off people (AI developers and engineers), who literally worked on the engine and were the ones improving it and adding updates and now this???

    I hope that unity wont loose what made itself popular in the first place. I think knowing what happened 2 weeks ago and now this, people will start to go to different engines and those who live and breath unity will have a hard time defending it. :/
     
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  26. chingwa

    chingwa

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  27. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    It's absolutely a pretty traditional merger.
     
  28. andyz

    andyz

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    Yeah ironsource will own 16-17% (Edit - 26.5%) of unity. Brilliant...
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  29. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    I have a feeling that what we are actually seeing here is a CEO doing a favor to another CEO.
    Riccitiello knows Unity is done (at least for him), so now he's just planning his future elsewhere.

     
  30. CorWilson

    CorWilson

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    I've already been learning it mostly for the C++ and Unreal experience on my resume.
     
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  31. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    It's already done.

    Unity has plunged to Electronic Arts and Facebook levels of popularity and no one (without an economic incentive) can defend the trajectory it has followed since John Riccitiello was hired as CEO.

    Can we just take a moment to look at the proud man who made this possible?

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/07/...is-incredibly-clear-says-ceo-riccitiello.html
     
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  32. chingwa

    chingwa

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    I can't wait to experience some of those "near term synergies". Man, I am excited for sure.
     
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  33. milox777

    milox777

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    If you develop ad revenue based mobile games and tried Unity Mediation or at least are aware of its existence then you should know who they are - just an ad network, like, you know, Unity Ads itself or many others like AdMob, Vungle and so on.

    Unity is just expanding their main business, which is selling (mostly) mobile ads. Nothing wrong with that, some of the biggest tech companies in the world are ad companies, like Google or Facebook.
     
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  34. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Yeah, if there's any companies that aren't constantly in hot water because of how they're using their user data and acquisition, it's Google and Facebook.
     
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  35. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    WOW, just WOW
    Guys, read this.
    Well, that's it guys, time to look at Godot or UE.
     
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  36. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Their success proves them right.
     
  37. milox777

    milox777

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    I'm pretty sure they haven't been in the desktop adware business for a while now, since mobile ad publishing is much more profitable without having to do stuff like pack installers with borderline malware.

    Yeah but guess what, it's a public company it has to grow no matter what. And it has to grow for our benefit too - more money, more stuff that can be done, hopefully with the engine. Their ad business is their main revenue source and has been for a while, selling shovels in the gamedev gold rush has long been a saturated niche (and there is no gold rush anymore), especially now when so much quality competition exists and it's free. I don't get this whining, would you rather have them stagnate and not have revenue or future growth? They need to make money off something, they need business growth engine and that growth engine is clearly ads. Recently there's been news of trouble after it turned out that Unity's ad targeting post Apple iOS 14 privacy changes was not as great as advertised, so this acquisition makes even more business sense.
     
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  38. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    The smell is still there.
     
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  39. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Their success proves they've built a widespread monopoly that remains unchallenged because of how anti monopoly laws affecting tech were effectively gutted in the late 90s and early 2000s.

    This is laughably naive and we even went over why that's the case when the IPO was first announced.

    And what happens when one angle of growth dramatically overtakes another in a company? Because I can promise you it isn't "all the other products get better too."
     
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  40. Oknees

    Oknees

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    Yeah but that's the thing that makes this bad. Unity is a game engine first, shouldn't their priority add new features to make the more engine stable, accessible?

    Like, look at Blender from the time I started using blender (2.79) to now they have greatly improved their software and is removing the "Blender is for rookies" stigma that has plagued it for a long time.

    Unity still has its problems -problems relating to engine features and the like- and needs to address them and yet they haven't. I don't think their main priority should be this or even making the company public in the first place :I
     
  41. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    Yeah. But they have been going in that direction since the first day Riccitiello has been CEO so no surprises here.
    I think we should just assume this is how it's gonna be from now on and find other alternatives to Unity if we are not ok with it.
    That's it: the Unity company and engine I loved are dead.
    They have been dead for a long time but I was in denial.
     
  42. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Sooo... what happened at that peak between Nov 21 and Mar 22? Covid?

    That's false. Public companies do not have to grow. They have to earn more money and increase profitsss, but growing is not required for that.
     
  43. milox777

    milox777

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    Absolutely, but if I remember correctly back in the day famous gaming company Zynga also had such adware advertising in their Facebook games, as had many other companies in the pre mobile era and pre microtransactions. There just wasn't much other ways to monetize free desktop software/games other than these scammy ads and infrastructure for microtransactions wasn't there yet. It's likely IronSource started as an adware installer company then pivoted to mobile and found success there.

    Except that it isn't a game engine first, maybe from our point of view but it's primarily a business, game engine is one of their products. It's nothing unusual for companies to branch out into other areas to grow, every big company did that. If Microsoft only did programming tools they would never grow into a giant they are today, but they branched out into operating systems, Office, cloud, gaming and so on and did just fine. Companies that don't evolve die or stagnate, there is nothing stopping Unity catching up to Unreal in every area, and even Epic itself branched into having a EGS/crappy Steam wannabe that mostly exists to give out games for free and deprecate their value even more.

    Also have you looked at the roadmap https://unity.com/roadmap/unity-platform the progress Unity did in the last 4 years is amazing, it's easy to overlook if you only focus on things you don't work, but it's undeniable that the engine is still growing in features and becoming better overall.
     
  44. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Slow down there, this type of optimism is seriously cramping my pessimism!
     
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  45. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    Literally rose tinted glasses, i see pink materials everywhere ;)
     
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  46. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    One huge risk with "branching out" is that it can hurt or kill the company. "Every big company did that" actually means that "Every big company that survived the process" meaning that a lot of them didn't. Rather than "branching out" a better idea is to innovate. And that's not the same thing.

    The difference between branching out and innovation is that when you innovate you touch something that is related to your main thing, and when you branch out, it is not that related.

    Basically, imagine if Unity decided to invest into bakeries. That would be branching out and that would be a bad idea...

    So when company starts buying stuff that is not related to their core product, that's a worrying thing. For example, remember how unity wanted to be social network with unity connect? That's branching out. That money would've been better off used elsewhere.
     
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  47. milox777

    milox777

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    It's true though, I've been using Unity since version 3.x and the progress that the company and the engine made in that time is amazing, but in the last 4 years since version 2018 it really accelerated. It obviously came with some problems, it's undeniable that huge progress has been made, even though most notably render pipeline transition should've been handled better.
     
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  48. PanthenEye

    PanthenEye

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    They have billions for gamedev adjacent business acquisitions and mergers, but they can't spare a few mil for the Gigaya team? It's a worrying precedent, to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  49. Doddler

    Doddler

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    The unfortunate truth is unity basically pivoted away from being a game engine first years ago into being primally an ad platform. They don't focus on the engine first because the engine isn't really important to them. Unity's basically been in maintenance mode for years, the only reason it remains useful is because it maintains the widest range of build targets of any other engine, is extensible enough that 3rd parties can fill in the gaping holes in features and it's flexible enough that you can code your way around most engine issues and limitations. They've failed to ship almost any any major new feature that you'd actually willingly integrate in a real commercial project over the last 5 years, last useful feature I can recall that changes how I actually use the engine in day to day was nested prefabs. If you weren't around for the unity 3/4/5 years when the engine basically reinvented itself for the better with each major update, you might not recognize just how much worse it's been.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  50. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    A merger should not directly cause costs since the money remains within the merged company.
    But I agree, the dimensions of spent money feel off in general.
     
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