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What RPers really want, what they really really want...

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Master_Of_Keys, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Master_Of_Keys

    Master_Of_Keys

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    This is a thread regarding RP.
    From my time in mmos, I've come across various types of RPer, and they all have their own ideas on what RP should be. Despite their differences, I've seldom found arguments between the types, although those known as "Elitist" or "RP Nazi" can become a nuisance to others, picking every little hole in someone else's RP, which pretty much destroys the fun, and therefore the raison d'etre of RPing in the first place.

    So here's my initial list of RP types.
    • Light RP - Those that like a few greetings, salutations, and cheers in a style suitable to the game's setting. Though are likely to also talk about soccer/football, or other real world events in-game.
    • Medium RP - Those that pretty much go along with all other RPers, whatever their style, but are still easy going and accept whatever comes their way.
    • Heavy RP - Those that try very hard not to make mistakes, read the lore, research their character background, and generally throw themselves into it wholesale.
    • By The Book RP - For any given literary series turned into a game, these RPers want the world to be pure, and for other RPers within their group to respect all aspects of the given book(s).
    • Elitists - Those that really are OCD about the perfection of the RP, and usually pick every little hole in other's play. You can probably tell, that Elitists get on my nerves, and I wonder if they get on each others' nervers too?
    • ERP or Erotic RolePlay - Well, there's a niche for everyone. Live and let live, I say.
    Now what do these varied and disparate groups want from a game - and is there any way to keep them all happy - or anything we do as developers that really screws up their fun, that we could easily do right in the first place.
     
  2. Whippets

    Whippets

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    Hmm, can't argue with the list of styles of RP, I've seen them all.

    Quite often I see RPers at a bar, or sat round a table doing simple "tavern RP", which they obviously enjoy, and to help them with that, taverns and inns, and other social meeting places need areas designed with enough spaces where characters can sit in small groups of 2-10 people.

    Small groups also congregate in "work" places, like banks and crafting stations, and chat together whilst doing whatever it is they are doing.

    Some of the guilds I've been in also create their own story arcs, and have expeditions to go fetch some item, or kill some monster that suits their story line.

    I can probably think of others, but that's it for now.
     
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  3. slay_mithos

    slay_mithos

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    The good things is that most RP players (apart from the "elitists") don't frown too much when an other player only does it lightly.

    A few years ago, I joined a RP server for a MMO with a friend, only wanting to do light/medium RP, and being accepted doing this, even by some more hardcore RP players made the whole experience very rewarding.

    At the same time, I can also understand why some want "perfect" PR, it's not that different from people wanting a perfect game, pointing at the smallest flaws.
    It usually doesn't come from bad intentions, but it often is annoying to the others.

    Most RP players seems to not want to see the non-RP players in chat with terms that don't fit the world, because it can somewhat break the immersion that RP provides.
     
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  4. Teila

    Teila

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    Hmm, I have seen arguments between the types. LOL I have been part of those arguments in the past. Oh boy, this is going to be long. lol

    Let me see:

    Light RP: In my opinion, if you are role playing, you should not talk football in public places. Fine to do it in our private home or via PM's, but by talking football, you ruin the immersion of the role play, for yourself and for others around you. I wouldn't even call your definition of a Light RP a role player. I also don't think greetings or salutations in the game's theme are necessary to be honest.

    I would define Light RP as: One who does not talk about real life events in public, but otherwise goes about playing the game. They don't have to be part of plots, or have a deep background or any of that sort of stuff. They just have fun and don't talk about football or real live events in public.

    Med RP: I would completely rewrite this one. :) This person stays in character, meaning they have some sort of concept for their character and they stick to that in the game. They are not weird or obsessive about it but if they are playing a character who was the youngest son of a big family and struck out on their own, they stick to that character concept. Like the Light RPer, they simply have fun with it and go about playing the game.

    Heavy RP: This is a person, like you said who researches the lore and tries to fit into the theme of the world. Again, salutations to me are shallow and not necessary. Attempting to fit into the world and using the lore as props to enhance the role play is more important. Again though, the person should have fun and not worry if mistakes happen.

    By the Book: I guess you might call these my Heavy RP although, one should not be obsessed about lore and about doing everything perfectly. So yeah, these people can be annoying but they can also be fascinating. If one wants to go 'by the book' and be perfect, fine but don't expect perfection for those around you. As for the non-roleplayer or the light role player, they might really enjoy role playing with the By the Book person.

    Elitist: The term elitist is usually a derogatory term given to the person by others. I think a better term might be Self-Absorbed Actors. :) I have met people like this. They tend to not really role play as much as create a very deep character, post their background stories all over the forums and elsewhere, and pre-create scenarios to act out with their friends. They expect anyone who plays with them to have read all the background stories and to be willing to be part of their story. If you try to role play with them and fit in any of the above categories, they tend to send multiple PMs telling you what they think you should do and how you should react or even worse, justifying their reaction to you by telling you their deep backstory. For many of us, this is no fun. It is not role playing, it is directing a play.

    I won't address the last one because honestly, it fits into all of the above. Role players, no matter the theme of their role play differ greatly, from light to obsessive.

    As a role player, my style changes based on the game and the other players. I prefer to be a Heavy Role player. I read the lore of a game first, I try to fit my character into the theme of the game, but then I sit back and have fun. I do create a background, but I don't want everyone to read it. I want to reveal my character bit by bit through the game play. I like to role play based on actions and reactions in-game, not on pre-created stories and scenarios. In fact, I hate those. They feel artificial to me. I like to develop my character through the game, not in spite of the game. I am perfectly happy playing with light and medium role players and in fact enjoy it very much! I like watching people grow and develop into role players. :)

    Sometimes I am a light role player, sometimes medium, depending on the game. Sometimes there is no lore or the lore is very weak. If a non-roleplayer talks to me, I stay in character. If they ask my age, I use my character's age. If they ask personal questions, I respond as my character. lol I don't make a big deal about it and they probably have no idea that I am not a 19 year old girl, but that is not my problem. :) I avoid discussions about real life but I am not rude about it. I don't ruin anyone else's fun.

    Keeping them all happy? Ha! Can you ever do that with any group of gamers?

    My perfect game would be one where players are encouraged stay in-character in public. I don't care if they talk among friends about football, but I don't want to hear it in the tavern. I don't want people asking if I am "really a girl". Come on...don't I look like a girl? Even if I were not a girl, why does that matter to anyone?

    Unfortunately, as a role player, I have had some very bad experiences with people who really hate role players. They call us names, they attack our groups, even if we are non-combat, just because, and they do whatever they can to ruin our game play. They even brag about it on the forums.

    This is the reason we are making our game. Not just so role players have a place where they 'rule' and don't have to deal with as many jerks, but so they have a place where the game mechanics support and enhance role play.
     
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  5. JoeStrout

    JoeStrout

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    I think it helps up front to decide what sort of server you're running, and make this clear to players as they sign up. Some are looking for a social place to hang out and talk about their (real-life) day while they kill some mooks. Others are looking for a place to role play. It's best to keep these two groups on separate servers (possibly separate games).

    Making a non-RP server is easy, so I've nothing more to say about that. :)

    But Teila, I'm curious what sort of game mechanics you have to support and enhance role play.

    One idea that leapt to mind for me: Culture-specific greeting (and other?) animations. I know you said you don't care for special salutations, but I think an RP server should have a variety of quick keys for greetings, partings, celebration, etc. If you have these already, it would be easy enough to customize them based on class or race: so maybe elves always bow, dwarves nod (or raise a tankard, if they happen to be holding one), orcs shake their fists, etc.

    What else do you have in mind (if you can share)?
     
  6. Teila

    Teila

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    I can't give away all my secrets! ;)

    The reason I don't like specific salutations is because they have become a symbol of "role players" in a negative sense. They "Welcome Thee" or whatever else, is usually followed by derogatory terms afterwards by those that don't get it. :)

    Besides, unless you are creating an early medieval English setting in your game, then it is really rather un-role playish, right? I mean, why would a person of a culture other than Ye Olde English say those things? And even then, their entire language was different. A few words does not a role player, make, right?

    Quick keys is fine if it is specific to the culture or setting. I do like emotes a lot for role playing, even quick keys.

    We worked on a role play game for many years, were in constant contact with thousands of role players. Most of those are all grown up and raising kids now. :) But they gave us invaluable insight which we still use. A number of them contact me still, reminding me not to throw out this or that. However, the new breed of role players may be different. There are now game servers for role players and even a few entire games have popped up out there. What they want may be different.
     
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  7. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    Wowza, erotic RP? Ehrm.

    No but, in all forrealz, there's so many different RP character type systems out there. D&D made one, Wizards had their own, plus at least two others I've read. We did a pretty good dig into different types of fun, different types of players in the What IS Game Design? Thread, might want to check that out.... as.... well.
     
  8. Master_Of_Keys

    Master_Of_Keys

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    Thank you Misterselmo, but I was looking particularly at Role Playing as a specific genre of fun, from MUSHes to MMOs; which whilst they have RPG in the name, most sadly have little to do with actual RP as RPers would define it.

    Teila, your definitions are far superior to my attempts. I would add only that BTB players for a given series, let's take Gor for example, play exactly to the lore of the books, and especially in places like Second Life, do have notices on their sims stating that a particular sim is BTB, so it's not a shock to others, and leaves one in no doubt as to the content, and expected behaviour.

    Sadly, you are also correct in the bullying and trolling that RPers face in most of the big one-size-fits-all mmos. One of the reasons I would like to create a game specifically for RP.

    Joe, you are correct, and by the sound of it, some of the games being built by people here are not going to suit non role-players, so servers should not be an issue. There are some really socially grouping advantages to salutation or other emotes being race specific. I hear what Teila is saying about being picked on for using "Welcome thee..." or other olde english style salutations, but I think in an game for role-players only, this may not be such a big issue.
     
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  9. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    I thought Dungeons and Dragons was role playing my bad
     
  10. Teila

    Teila

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    Ha!! Yeah, it is but since it is very player-directed, meaning the GM can change the story as the game progresses quite easily based on the actions of the players, it is without the limitations that a video game has. :) I role play in tabletop games but not many do. Fortunately, my friends are amused by my attempts.
     
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  11. Whippets

    Whippets

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    Heh, I used to play table-top too, it's another form of role play, as is the pen and paper D&D (which I also used to play). I think what Master was on about is multiplayer online gaming which is yet another form of role play.

    Oh, best not forget cos-play as well, not to leave anyone out.
     
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  12. Master_Of_Keys

    Master_Of_Keys

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    Yes, apologies for that. I did mean specifically multiplayer online games. mmorpgs - but not necessarily the biggest, which try to cater for too many tastes at once.