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Question What is your plan with selling us stolen assets?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Enzi, Mar 19, 2023.

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  1. spiney199

    spiney199

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    Then well done, you've avoided the problem without spending money. How great is that?
     
  2. Deleted User

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    This is ridiculous. The point of this thread is to cure the infection, not just avoid it.
     
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  3. neginfinity

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    The point is to not get sick. Avoiding the infection does the job.

    The problem here that none of the people in the thread are the ones making decision. Any arguments should be directed at unity or its employees. And not at other users. Basically, it is possible to start an argument and spend time on it thinking that it matters or you're deciding the ultimate fate of something. The reality that you are not. If anyone is monitoring the forum, they probably noticed the thread by now, but that's the extent of it as no unity employees have posted a response here.

    And at this very moment, if you have concern over pirated assets, your choices are:
    * Make your own stuff
    * Use trusted sellers only.

    Could unity do something? Sure. Now, will unity do something?
    Maybe. One day, some day, etc.

    Is there a reason to wait for unity's actions? Not really.
     
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  4. spiney199

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    Humanity fights diseases with vaccinations, not cures.

    Take from that what you will.

    In short: don't get infected.

    It's not an unreasonable statement.
     
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  5. Deleted User

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    There is more that we can do, actually. As devs who use it, there is actually a report button by each asset. Maybe, since Unity doesn't, we could use a specific thread to mention any assets that are sus.
     
  6. Ryiah

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    The report button is there for the owner of the work to contact Unity. You'll just be ignored if you don't own it.
     
  7. Deleted User

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    Still, we can report the assets on a thread.
     
  8. spiney199

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    No one's going to dig through a thread to maybe find a worrisome asset on there.

    But be the change you want to see in the world. Make the thread if you so desire.
     
  9. unitedone3D

    unitedone3D

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    Hi there! Just a 2 cents. TL DR: ask refund, maybe they will; most likely not (EULA/Terms that say: ''Your problem/we take no claim/disclaim...you are liable if you buy stolen asset...you deal with it, now, your problem.''). The store 'transfers/imparts' responsibilty on you; and de-responsibilises from their side to avoid lawsuits etc...against them.

    I can imagine (and understand, as I use assets) that one would be worried of such a turn of event (learning, later, it is stolen asset(s); making us waste time/resources...to backtrack and remove it/them; and, having to deal with the money lost if we paid for it/them (back then)). Am one; as others have said, it is a sort of gamble we take when buying assets from any online store; now, of course, some stores offer more (re)assurance; and even, insurance.
    Liability insurance. But, I noticed that most stores don't (like 99% don't); it's just too costly to offer an insurance; but, the least some do, is give you a refund; but, it many EULAs is stipulates (and not just Unity...Unreal, Turbosquid, CGtrader, you name it, I use(d) them all) that the store is not responsible/liable for the ensuing problems 'found out later'...about the asset seller; that it's really, as said, a transaction between you and the seller...and if the seller is selling stolen assets; then the Platform/Asset Store...is not to be responsible of this problem; I understand people say: ''but they took my money...30%, refund it'';

    I think this is where there is a sort of ''no refunds policy'' kind of thing going on; it may look not right...but many stores do that; no refunds if such a thing happens --- of course, it's not best; obviously, because as others stated; it makes the buyer lose confidence in the Store -and- in asset sellers on it....so like, the store wants 'not take/claim any responsability' for this....which is thorn (because peeople say: ''they took my money...no problem, so long as you refund me.''. But, that's the thing, it's like Steam or other platforms that say: ''2 weeks/2 hours limits...to refund a game.'' after that; no more refund. I'm not saying it's like that; I'm just saying it resembles that a bit; where they will not make a refund 15 months later...after someone was foud to sell stolen assets...it's just too far/too long to backtrack etc...I think that's the real/more reason why; like, it should not be, but I think it's one reason; plus, well, Obviously, they keep the money; which, of course, for the dev is feeling like ripped-off/stolen his/her money...when can't use the asset anymore (because stolen asset). I guess, this is the gamble; it would be better with a refund or better (but even less likely, because more costly) insurance. You could pay a little more and you would obtain an insurance license with the asset; it's what many stores do -- Standard License (no liability coverage); -- Extended License (liability coverage - 25,000$);

    thus, if you are sued, the Store has the (now) the responsibility to cover you up to that amount (if you took the 'liability coverage' insurance Costlier License). It's generally 2-3x times more expensive; but your mind is more at peace because you know that if you get sued by someone later -- the store will protect you (because you had paid a liability coverage license; more expensive, but that's the peace of mind; peace of mind..is sadly, not cheap that is what we are learning in this world). If only, we could 'never be sued' about game dev making; it's impossible but we can reduce our chances of that happening; and as others said, the biggest thing is 'limiting' the exposure/purchasing -- of assets..online.because the danger is always there (that some asset is illegit...Unknowingly using it...and Later finding it out --- what joy...). I learned that large AAA companies have huge 'licensing/legal/lawyer' teams that do this 24/7 chore..to make sure that their games are 100% legit and not infringing on anything...we, solo devs, don'T have that. Sometimes, I feel, like an 'inspector' having to 'track' some asset...just to know 'IF' it is legit or not....fun gamble. This is when you think : ''Ok, peace of mind -- expensive license with liability coverage..., it is.''. But, the cheapest for the store is a Refund; of course, cheaper...is no refund at all. But that'S bad, because it makes customer trust be lost (and then 'customer lost'...still, from what I gathered...it's almost 'standard'....asset stores do this and the liability - is on you. So you 'take your chances' when you buy it. Roll the dice.

    And, yes, saying stuff like 'don't buy Assets on asset store and be vigilant..' is a bit reductive..bceause many people use Assets/stores....it just is very important (or else...we are stuck making micro-games that fail repeatedly...that'S it; unless a big team with resources); outsuorcing is used by 99% of studios today; so there is huge trust (issue) here; people Depend on Assets and thus...if stolen, major loss of trust. Still, as said, from what I gathered..most stores continue even so (no refund or they May do a refund...); but, many don't; it was stipulated in their EULA/Terms, that you took that chance/responsibility when you bought it. Refunds are not 'forever'. The reasoning they do that, is not necessarily to make devs angry...it's that large stores want to keep some of the 'bargaining power'....like, this is why they have these EULAS/Terms...they want you to be under them; not 100% Above them; it'S a 'balance' of power between the buyer and store/seller. I understand that, because when I will sell my game (later when done, if ever); I know it is a balancing act...between wanting to make the customer happy...but not giving Everything to the customer also; like having 'some' decision/leeway/some slack.. power from the side of the seller; not just the buyer.

    In essence, I mean, I think Asst Stores do this to have a 'small control' on things and not let the customer 'decide Everything' about How they asset should or should not be sold; it's the 'take some leave some' (feedback); that's what they do, daily. I also think that they feel 'big' about it, like devs, are small, and not to say they are not important; but Asset Store, especially that are from Game Engine makers are sort of 'together/in it--together'; so it's the 'it takes 2 tango'; we use an asset store...that is by an game engine maker; and we use Their Engine...so like, I tihnk there is a bit of --- ''now what will you do for us....we sell you assets, we give you an engine....what else should we do?''; other asset stores that are not releated to any engines...may not care at all and they of course may act differently; because they are Just an asset store, nothing more. But, this one here, is not.

    As dev using assets, we have to face the reality.....we may have to 'later' 'by surprise/finding out'....to remove stolen assets; and that is awful...but it is the danger with using assets; it can't 100.0000% safe; yes, ''make your assets''..is the answer; but many we can't because the Sheer amount of them necessary (if aiming more than micro-game); it just is Way to big/impossible to make (At the larger scope) and the answer of ''make micro-scope''...is the answer, but such games don'T necessarily become hits (many don't); and many have No interest to make such games. Reducing scope is important (of course); but Asset Store allows outsourcing and bigger projects to be a Reality; and that these larger games - now - concretizable. The only, problem, is 'stolen' assets....

    Thanks for reading,
    Just a 2 cents.

    PS: I have hundreds of thousands of assets, I know I will have to do lots 'damage control' later (will sweat...); but that's a risk I took; or else...make a microgame...and you can make safe stuff...but you won't make that bigger game; ain't happening; outsourcing is only solution and asset stores allow that. I will probably have to replace thousands of assets; but that's the 'game' of it...I would have wished to (an utopic world) found a store with thousands of assets and they are all legit...100% legit -- it does not exist. And, as devs, we know we may have to 'remove assets' and face some lawsuit tangling bs because 'copyright infringing/stolen thing'...and we have to deal with this legal 'webtangling bs...when we were being Honest and just wanted to use assets (honest/legit ones, not ones that make us 'legit tangled/liable') to make a game..that's it that'S all; if only it could have been this simple and easy ...(if it did, everybody would use that store...since, it does not, you have 2 choice, make your assets (and make microgame) or buy ones, but play the outsourced roulette, and you make a big game).
     
  10. Deleted User

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    I agree, Unity does a lot as it is- and if anyone has ever seen what all goes into a game engine- especially a 3D one... yikes. Glad I didn't have to make that myself. A thread could be a start in the right direction for a safer asset search- albeit a sloppy one... Unless someone else comes up with a more efficient way of doing things?
     
  11. TheOtherMonarch

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    It is elementary economics. The amount of money received for a refund is hardly going to cover the cost, stress, bad press and liability of removing an asset. Unity has an incentive to allow as many different assets on its store as possible. This incentive is misaligned with developers who have greater liability. Unity's terms of service can say whatever they want a court of laws may not agree. But the amount recovered many not make economic sense. If Unity had to issue a refund, that would at least also punish Unity which would realign their economic incentives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  12. AcidArrow

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    The solution is to assume that every asset sold on the asset infringes on copyright and only buy stuff from it if you get really convinced you found an exception.
     
  13. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    the amount of time you spend researching the veracity of an asset could be spent making minor edits to it such that it becomes unique and a non-issue.

    this is mountains over molehills.
     
  14. neginfinity

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    Earlier someone brought up Amazon as an example, and Amazong has a habit of removing books from people's libraries, without returning money. For example, here's a fairly old example:
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/oct/22/amazon-wipes-customers-kindle-deletes-account

    So it is doubtful that this is "elementary economics" at play here.

    In my opinion, the situation you describe would've been true, if Asset Store was t he main source of unity's income and Unity was a startup. That is not the case. Primary source of income, as far as I'm aware, are enterprise licenses, and those may not even need asset store in the first place.

    Provided "report" button is in line with how this is implemented in other services, such as sketchfab and youtube. Users are free to report problematic content, and the service responds to queries from copyright holders.
     
  15. Deleted User

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    If one edits a stolen asset... How is that not still using copyrighted assets? I mean, the outcome most likely would be devastating.
     
  16. neginfinity

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    You need to take a look at this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.H.O.O.Q.

    Copyright law is a lot of fun, you see.

    There's "transformative work", there's matter of "copyrightability" and then there's fair use. The general idea is that the assets have to look the same and be recognizable. An example of that is here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Koons
    I.e. "substantial similarity" matters.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_similarity

    Also, you need to stop calling those "stolen", and instead use "pirated".

    There's also "Bright Memory" incident.
     
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  17. Ryiah

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    For anyone else that almost collided with that wall, here's a summary 24 times shorter:
     
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  18. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    1. nobody is looking
    2. nobody cares
    3. you aren't making enough money from your games for anybody to care
    4. the effort needed to make it impossible to prove you worked from something that was stolen is minimal compared to any other method
     
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  19. Murgilod

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    Ha ha ha yeah that would never happe—

    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1173220/view/3674412925834433823

    This is just the most recent example of this happening, but certainly not the only as there have been games that have suffered DMCA takedowns because of things like this.
     
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  20. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    so what trouble are they actually in?

    seems like mission accomplished - they used some store assets to get game done on time. Later they find out there is a problem. They can address it then. If they wanted to be really careful ahead of time, they could edit the animations. Just a tiny amount of work can make them unique.

    Instead should they never use any assets? Make everything from scratch, just to be careful? Is that realistic? Would the three person team have finished anything if they did that?
    Or they could spend days verifying everything they use in the game that they bought from official stores?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  21. Murgilod

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    No, you can't just "edit the animations" because the base assets are unlicensed. Transformative work is not nearly that simple. The animations have to either be redone from scratch or replaced with different ones entirely This means additional work, costing time and money, this means that their reputation has been tainted because of theft accusations, this means a whole mess of work on the dev's end because these weren't properly vetted before being put onto the store in the first place.

    In the case of games that have been taken down via DMCA, which has happened several times, this means they outright lose the ability to make any money. This "tiny amount of work" argument flies in the face of the actual legality of the situation.
     
  22. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    What do you think the risk/reward ratio is here, realistically? Like, several example cases, and hundreds of games released per day?

    Lets say I present you with several animations that look similar to something you've seen but are a bit different, how can you possible say whether or not I used the originals?

    I might have taken the actual assets and retargeted to my own characters, then added a few offsets. I might have just watched the original animiations and then hand-keyed my own version. Does anybody have copy right for "girl throwing a ball overhand with 1 second tempo?"

    I am not advocating just take any random thing and dump it into your project. I am saying that if you do the bare minimum with your art assets, it would be virtually unprovable to say its not your own work, and extremely unlikely anybody would notice.
     
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  23. Murgilod

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    What you are doing here is basically the equivalent to advocating piracy for commercial releases and then going "it's fine, the statistical likelihood of getting caught is low," which will get you laughed out of the F***ing room in any serious discussion. Like it or not, games are still subject to dealing with the law and violating those laws, purposefully or negligently, is still something that carries with it a very real risk. You may not see it as a big deal, but advocating against doing due diligence is just foolish.
     
  24. spiney199

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    I feel like the conversation has waded into legally dubious waters. It's probably prudent not to suggest practices that have a chance of being illegal, or at the very least, leave you open to a high degree of risk.
     
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  25. Deleted User

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    Since it was brought up... This seems like a good link to info on the DMCA. https://blog.hubspot.com/website/dmca-protection
    This statement in the site, however, caught my attention--

    The DMCA offers a streamlined way to handle copyright concerns. Speedy avenues for takedown and removal make it possible for content owners to quickly resolve issues, while offering service providers exemption from liability — so long as they respond promptly — ensures they’re motivated to help keep copycats at bay.

    Yeeeeeaaah, I don't want to have to deal with that later on.
     
  26. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    What is due diligence in this case? What are you supposed to do? Spend three hours searching for some info about a model pack? Five hours? 30 minutes? What do you do?

    Do you google, "(asset name), is it legit?" Do you contact the author and ask, "yo dawg, is your S*** legit or wut?"
    Do you make a forum post and ask randoms, "i wanna buy this stuff for my game, is it stolen?"

    And suppose somebody says, "that's stolen!" How do you know its true? How do you know its not a competitor trying to foil the competition? What is due diligence? Does due diligence mean that because there is a chance something on the internet is stolen, that you as an indie developer must therefore not use anything but make all assets on your own?

    The example case you've linked is of a game made by three people that 1. looks incredible and 2. seems to have sold millions of dollars worth of copies. And the risk here is that some gamers have accused that some animations look stolen? Is there any actual consequence? Is the developers response just being properly cautious and making some effort to show that they did in fact do due diligence and are not at fault?
    If so, what's the issue? Should they have authored all the animations on their own? Do you know what sort of time expense that entails?

    how do you ensure that an asset you bought isn't stolen? And how do you do that better than the gigantic corporation storefront which vetted and sold the thing?

    Doesn't it seem like the safest and duest of diligences you could make would be to transmogrify the asset to your own via the sweat of your brow? Isn't that more practical that making threads on a forum shouting at faceless corporation to do something about a problem too small for them to give a hoot about?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  27. Murgilod

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    Except that doesn't actually do anything. You're pretending that an edit leads to an inherently transformative work, but that simply isn't the case. Do you think somebody could get away with, say, this? It has been transmogrified, after all.
    upload_2023-3-21_19-31-1.png

    The solution here is that due diligence should be performed on the part of the storefront. In this case, yes, that means Unity and Unreal.
     
  28. Deleted User

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    That was why I suggested a code to return data to us about the assets, and an algorithm to compare it with data from assets outside of the asset store. The concept is a rough idea, of course, but ripping assets for checking integrity is a bit different from outright stealing and reselling. It's only a rough idea, tho.
     
  29. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Well if you think when I say edit the asset to make it your own that amounts to a retint and sunglasses on gordon freeman, I think you either think I'm a total dope, or you are.

    Besides that, I think you of all people understand that random suggestions on forum is like the opposite of due diligence because it accomplishes nothing. In the meantime, people who are busy making games have to actually do something to manage risk, and not using any 3rd party assets isn't a very practical solution.

    Given some animations, you could spend 100 hours authoring your own, or you could spend 10 reworking a package that you got. The result would be that you'd have animations that nobody can say are not your own, and you still get the time cost and there isn't anything ethically dubious about it. And, risk versus reward is happy because there is virtually nothing going to happen.
     
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  30. Murgilod

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    If you have started with the base of an unlicensed asset, there is no amount of work you can do to it that would allow you to claim fair use that would not be the equivalent of making that asset from scratch. If you don't get that, yes, you are a total dope.

    The solution is due diligence, and that should fall on the part of the store. If the store isn't willing to do that, yes, you should put the effort in yourself to make sure it isn't unlicensed. And yes, that means that assets that you can't easily confirm the provision of, assets not from trusted sellers, should not be used at all. That also means you can not trust every seller. If you don't like that, that's fine, but it doesn't mean "just change things" is going to work and it also doesn't mean "never use an asset."
     
  31. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    @Murgilod

    okay but you aren't really answering my questions I feel.

    I am ignoring what we expect unity or unreal to do because it doesn't matter - they do what they want. We do what we can.

    What is due diligence? How do you prove that somebody made some animations? Do you visit them to see their mocap facility?

    Take kubold for instance. Big animation seller. They sell a ton of animations, and so far nobody accused them of anything. So what? How do we know kubold isn't ripping somebody off?

    So what can we do? You say that we simply don't use any assets unless we can verify they are legit. But unless you literally know a person, the only veracity you have is by implicitly trusting the storefront. In other words, back to square one - use no third party assets.

    If you guys think that is a practical solution... well good luck with your games.
     
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  32. Murgilod

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    Yes, this makes them a trusted seller. You can verify them on reputation and continued status.


    Do not buy assets from nobodies. Do not buy assets from people who are complete fly by night operations who don't even have support sites. Check to see if they even have a thread on the forums. Do they have a name attached to the assets, like an artist? Find a portfolio page.

    This is due diligence.
     
  33. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Okay but Bill Cosby was trusted by pretty much the entire tv viewing world for decades.

    And there was a time when kubold first posted an animation pack online and had zero reviews...

    so its like, we should only trust big legit operations, but also we cannot trust the two biggest storefronts in game development space?
     
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  34. Murgilod

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    Since you keep deciding on absurdity:
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/due diligence

    You can not trust Unity or Unreal, no, because they do no diligence aside from the most rudimentary levels of verification because it is not in the interest of profit otherwise. They do not verify anything and they even say as much in their own terms of service. For instance, here's an official statement from Epic:
     
  35. neginfinity

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    There's no real incentive for doing that.

    In a western-backed store you'll be hit with a cease and desist, and kicked off the platform. If you do something serious and bring attention of the big guys, those can end you, if they can reach you, meaning you're in the same legal jurisdiction.

    See Silicon Knights case.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Knights
    Epic Games exterminated them.

    Though looks like in this case it wasn't just one swapped model,. those guys were very determined to look for trouble and even sued Epic first for "failure to produce a working engine" while using pieces of code without permission.

    Nintendo will also end you for even a tiniest copied asset, they have reputation of destroying fan projects that took decades to build.

    However.

    Modding scene pirates models and animations routinely. There are plenty of skyrim mods with ripped models, some people run retro game servers with ripped daedra armors, then we have VR chat where probbaly half of the environments rely on assets ripped without permission and somehow VR chat is still around and nobody cares.

    With anime models there's a small chance that they were ripped from some japanese hentai game constructor.

    At the same time, patreon has porn games which use licensed marvel characters using fair use clause and nobody cares. Also, all fanart is illegal. I'm serious. Again, there are artists that earn money off patreon making fan artworks without permission of IP holders. Oh, and in japan there's doujin scene.

    Going back to the resources.

    There's no point in copying assets, because if the asset is good, people are going to recognize it, then the Big Guys can end you, especially if you're using it in a commercial game, and in area that their lawyers can reach. However If the asset is bad, then the question is why would you even want it when you can probably make something like that yourself. If you, say, take someone's model, reduce it to a base mesh, then build on top, that'll be probably the case of "bright memory", meaning it will not be realistically possible to determine that copying took place. At the same time I got advice from actual artists - if you copy your character appearance from huge number of sources (i.e. eyes from one character, nose from another), then nobody is going to recognize that in practice. However, that for 2d artwork.

    "Morality" arguments in case of copyright, are not well, sound, because there's a huge amount of gray area and dubious causes. Fan art which is illegal but allowed and VR chat full of ripped models is some of those.

    From practical perspective, using pirated work is something you'd want to avoid, if you're planning to be commercial or receive funding officially. Because people will be looking, they can alert the IP holders, and then you can lose your funding.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  36. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I can google and I know what the word means. The problem is that it's a catch-all phrase thats entirely open to interpreation.

    You've pointed out a few things that you think constitute due diligence, but it only amounts to only purchase from large, established sellers or not at all.

    I say this is both impractical and unnecessary, especially for the indie developer.In a similar amount of time that it would take to hunt down the author of some asset, you could just as well do a few hours work and nobody in the world could ever say what the original source of the art was.
     
    fab_games likes this.
  37. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    You literally proposed "transmogrifying the assets" to play it safe, but actually putting in the work to make sure you do things like check an artist's portfolio is a bridge too far?
     
  38. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Lets say I search for the artist of some animations but I come up short.

    You say I dont use them.

    I say use them, and spend a couple hours tweaking them to suit your game better. Adjust timing, adjust spacing... 90% of the work is already done, you just work from the base. Stuff that you almost certainly would do anyway if you weren't the laziest asset flipper. (not calling you that)
     
  39. Murgilod

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    Except literally none of this protects you from a legal standpoint, which is what we're talking about.
     
  40. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    We cannot trust the biggest storefronts in game development space, because those storefronts only storefronts, meaning they provide a store for a 3rd party.

    It is like a mall that rents its space for small stores. Any small store can sell bad product, and that will not necessarily be mall's responsibility, because the mall only provides floor space.

    In both UNity and Epic stores there are projects and assets developed by Unity and Epic Games respectively. Those are made by the owner of the resource. The rest should be handled case by case basis.
     
  41. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    It protects you from ever getting anywhere close to that extremely, hilariously small risk.

    Intentionally restricting your production in a massive way doesn't seem like a proper risk management strategy to me. It's like only walking everywhere my entire life because car crashes are sometimes fatal.
     
  42. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Again:
     
  43. Deleted User

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    Do we then need a new store that actually is able to be held accountable, Unity or not? I mean, last resort would be a full-time white-hat hacker, but that's also very expensive.
     
  44. neginfinity

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    No. It will fail to take off and will die from lack of clients.

    Also, there's no real incentive for the store owner to leave a possibility of being held accountable, because every new product will increase chance of getting sued.

    That's why every license agreement has a clause like this:
    Basically, if the store can be held accountable, then you'll have to pay much more. For example, it wouldn't be surprising if you had to pay 10x or 100x times more. Then you won't like the price and will buy the same thing elsewhere.
     
  45. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I was trying to focus on things that actually exist. Things people can actually do.

    @Murgilod

    in my opinion, the linked game you shared is perfect example for practical risk management. A three person team has made extremely impressive game, looks to have sold in the millions, and somewhere some gamer has made an accusation, which apparently there isn't any real reprecussions over? And the team is handling it extremely professionally.

    But you suggest that they shouldnt have used any of the animations in the first place... or maybe they did do due diligence, but depsite their best efforts they just missed something? Wouldn't adjusting the animations have avoided that in the first place?

    IN any case, who is taking them to court? Worst case, what do they end up owing if it turns out they were properly lazy or even knowngly used pirated stuff?

    I mean, it seems like they are the ones we should be asking questions from about how to game develop, not the other way around.
     
  46. Murgilod

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    There have been games hit with DMCA takedowns over this sort of thing. These are practices I apply to my own purchases and, despite the terrifying ordeal you make it out to be, it is actually something that takes maybe a few minutes to do.
     
  47. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    But not using assets is the time cost, not the verification process.

    I've made my point completely, that's all I have to say
     
  48. Murgilod

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    You can still use assets! You just have to do a tiny bit of work to make sure they're not a ripoff! It's just another step you should put in alongside things like reading reviews and making sure the assets will work in the game!
     
  49. Deleted User

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    A good reputation is harder to gain back than a stolen bag of gold.
     
  50. neginfinity

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    It is not entirely clear what your point is, to be honest.

    "If I really want to do it, it is allowed, even if it is not allowed"?

    Ripped asset is like a landmine in your project, and I wouldn't want to have any landmines if there's a chance if it will ever go commercial or published on github. The risk is not small. "Over long periods of time, unlikely event becomes inevitable". Murphy's law.

    If you "really need an animation", then, uh you can grab a camera and rotoscope yourself or something, or keyframe animate a placeholder.

    To prove that kubold is ripping someone's assets, you'd need to find that original asset. Exact same movements, in an asset that predates kubold's first published package. See, MoCap movements are recognizable.

    In general in case of storefronts, you use trusted sellers, and in case the seller is new, you either take a risk or wait until it becomes trusted. Like online shopping, pretty much. Ever used aliexpress or ebay or amazon? Same deal.
     
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