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What engine would be more suitable to make a game like Oblivion and a mmorpg?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegenarie, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    I have found three main good engines, Unity, Udk and Cryengine, but not sure which one would be the best considering quality/easy of use. I have heard some ppl says Unity is not so good to make a decent fps like Oblivion, i would like to read your opinions.

    Also would like to know what would be best for a mmorpg, i heard you just can have up tp 64 players with udk and 1000 with Unity
     
  2. andorov

    andorov

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    The engine you chose is the least of your concerns if you're making a game "like oblivion" that's also an mmorpg.
     
  3. stereosound

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    Not to be offensive, but if you do not know the differences between the three, you will not be able to take on the complexities of what you're planning. My suggestion is to stick with unity because you'll be able to learn it quicker than the others.

    I strongly suggest bringing down the scope of your job though -- you currently fit the stereotype of "new user who wants to make the next AAA game with no experience" that often gets mocked here. There's plenty of great games made by new developers, you just have to realize your limitations and focus on a game that you can achieve.
     
  4. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    Stereosound you dont know me and what i can achieve so dont say nosense things
     
  5. windexglow

    windexglow

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    Relax, he's just being helpful (and he's right).

    The engine choice probably won't matter to a high degree.
    Probably best to research your questions. Here is first link from google.
    http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/795937-Max-online-players
     
  6. Starsman Games

    Starsman Games

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    Oblivion was developed by a team of roughly 100 developers over 4 years.

    You are claiming you can achieve the same results on your own and on top squeeze in all the extra stuff needed to make it an MMO? Well sir, you should not be asking questions here, you should instead be looking for investors to give you money!

    That aside, for amusement:

    Unreal Engine was used to make at least one existing MMO: Lineage 2.
    Unity was used to make at least one existing MMO: Batlestar Galactica Online.

    Both, from my understanding, used source code licenses and heavily modified the engine, and both can handle way more than "1000 players" (but thats irrelevant since its the server thats going to handle the players, not the client engine.)
     
  7. dbryson

    dbryson

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    Unity is not the game engine you are looking for *waves hand slowly*
     
  8. coffinsnail

    coffinsnail

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    Actually based off your first post yes we can surmise what you may or may not know. If you had the talent and knowledge to do such a indevor you would be able to compare each package you mentioned above and come up with the answer you want. When you ask others for their input about specific engines and give a specific game as your example. Well you show you do not know what you are looking at when it comes to technical description of the products.

    I know i know little to nothing about game developing, other then what is needed. I do not know how to produce a 3d model at all, but thru my reading i have seen that it takes times just to model as in a week to a month for one model without animation, and another week on average for each animation sequence needed. And these are time frames pros who have worked on games like oblivion say it takes them. So that means someone like me, even if i grasp it quickly will need a month per animation untill i find the short cuts.

    So as stated above you should concentrate on something smaller first and learn the engine. You do relise a game like oblivion had all its parts charectures and coding broken down into smaller chunks right? in other words the main charecture probably had one guy modeling, then one rigging, and so on and i doubt they did it in a few days.

    They tried to be nice and guide you and you reponded as such may not get ya much more then what was already said here. But if you dive in and discover what unity can do, ya might be suprised.
     
  9. andorov

    andorov

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  10. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    If you want to make Oblivion, make your own engine. Feel free to use libraries like Ogre or Bullet, but the engine itself won't match anything out there currently. You'll need to write the engine yourself to handle the performance and specific needs for your game.
     
  11. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Probably Esenthel. But be aware, that this is not engine for kids, it is more "developer engine", than "drag and click" engine. You need to be able to write in c++ and you really need to know what you are doing. But it will reward you with great visual quality (far better than Unity) and lots of "mmo features" out of box. There is even simple MMO as example. But again, you really need to know, how to make MMO, no engine will solve lack of knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  12. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Unity is absolutely hideous for what you want, I strongly recommend you go and experiment with some more capable engines like UDK or GameMaker.

    * [Play along boys and girls]
     
  13. Stefano_1990

    Stefano_1990

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    +1 He is exactly right. Unity might get you started but a few months down the road you will lose sleep over the limitations set out by the engine and you will inevitably end up having to change engine. You might as well save yourself the work of renaming all your codefiles from .c to .c++ when you move engine and start straight with cryengine. I think they also have a huge community so you should have no problem finding help.
     
  14. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    The hammer editor and the source engine are the best choice for this type of game, although taking a look at torque and it's latest version would work just as well
     
  15. Demostenes

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    How can you say that, if you cant code (as you admit)? From presentation on the website? Before making such judgements, you should dig quite deep into code and possibilities. But you cant do that, so everything you say on this topic is bullshit.
     
  16. andorov

    andorov

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    You're missing the joke.
     
  17. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    I would sugest looking at Eclipse evolution, it makes unity look primitive.
     
  18. _Petroz

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    I would reccomend building your own engine, on projects of this scale it's quite common.
     
  19. runner

    runner

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    Eclipse Evolution

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2V4SxogfLE

    These are various turn-key solutions out in the market place such as Hero or Shiva3D Visual3d.net , and of course many many more.

    Just saying there is obviously more to an game engine than just its graphics as might be the situation with Ogre which is mostly graphics, with some add-on components to aid development. and the case with Oblivion/skyrim is the advanced Radiant A.I. and the other components such as Physics/Sound/Networking and just as equally important high on my list is the asset importers, What it uses for development and even things such as IDE(intergrated development Editor) , and the languages i can use Boo/Python/C++/#C/Lua. (whatever)

    No clue about Lua -here-

    I'm not confessing anything profound or knowledgeable just my take on how you can make any kind of rash decision and before barging into a Unity Forum perhaps a little prior knowledge is the order of the day. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  20. TehWut

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  21. runner

    runner

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    You could develop something off OpenSimulator with unique RPG elements and assets that users could help build upon. In this "day and age" it might be worthwhile thinking outside the box and empowering players.

    Just a Thought.
     
  22. Naison

    Naison

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    Unity- FusionFall

    Unreal- Lineage II, DC universe, Tera.

    Cryengine- Aion The Tower of Eternity.

    You could use whatever you want. Kind of odd you mentioned oblivion instead of skyrim :3

    Anyway truth is if you are asking what engine to use you don't know how to start this game.
     
  23. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    Fine, at least there are a few ppl in this post with brain and helpful, thanks
     
  24. Demostenes

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    Check my reply, i think it will be interesting for you as well.
     
  25. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    Many thanks too, it looks promising. Very helpful this comparision table

    http://www.esenthel.com/?id=compare
     
  26. Michael16

    Michael16

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    Op excluded
     
  27. Demostenes

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    Well, that table is accurate as Unity, or other engine web. Something is half-truth, but at least it gives idea.
     
  28. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    Hero engine and Esenthel both looks nice but Hero engine has been used for games like Star wars old republic and Pitch Black Games and Bioware are making also a mmo with it.
     
  29. Demostenes

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    Indeed. But Heroengine has hidden costs. If your game does not generate enough revenue, you have to pay costs for traffic.And once you dont pay, bye bye, you lost all your work. I can easily imagine having game in some beta costing $2k a month on traffic and hosting (you pay international traffic, which is very expensive), but generating no revenue (beta). I recommend to read about HE and experience of other users.

    If you have some serious budget, no problem at all. But I guess you have no, or very limited budget.
     
  30. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    Well, if your game doesnt make money no worth keep it probably. Very likely Hero will be better, but Esenthel looks nice http://devmaster.net/devdb/engines/esenthel-engine#user-reviews
     
  31. kingcharizard

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    Um excuse me why does everyone forget unity made the MMO fusion fall for cartoon network?

    did you honestly suggest GameMaker????
     
  32. rab236

    rab236

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    Unity didn't make it. It was made in Unity :p. That was made with a team of professionals who knew what they were doing and knew the reasons to choose Unity.
     
  33. kingcharizard

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    hahaha, thanks for the correction but you get what i was trying to say... it was a rushed post...
     
  34. Swearsoft

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    * [Play along boys and girls]

    You didn't catch on to the joke.... ahhh and you still think you are smarter than everybody else here.
     
  35. Ntero

    Ntero

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    That comparison doesn't look very helpful at all. What would define 'Unlimited sized worlds'? Nothing on a computer is 'Unlimited'. Notice Esenthal has full marks, cause it's just using their own feature points as comparison. Also for Ambient Occlusion, Parralax Mapping, and Per-Object motion blur, it ignores the fact that you can write your own shaders to do these things. When using that chart for comparison, keep in mind it's a promotional tool for Esenthal and flawed.
     
  36. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    Yes GameMaker is the best engine for MMORPGS with Skyrim/Oblivion like Graphics. Be sure to check it out!
     
  37. kingcharizard

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    **OMG I cannot believe I missed that! i'll be sure to check it out right now...




    **for the Sarcasm impaired
     
  38. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    With source code licence.
     
  39. kingcharizard

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    Still was made with unity... goes to show what unity can do with the right team and commitment
     
  40. coffinsnail

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    The problem is you came to a engines board for a answer to a question you could have found on your own. you do relise what engine comes down to what limitations your willing to have, and also how much your willing to spend on a engine. people say this engine or that for this or that when it comes down to what the coders do to improve the engine. hell DAOC which was a very large MMO with lots of land, quests, tombs, and so on with PVP also included in a area as large if not larger then your home area didnt use any of the engines mentioned already. They used the Gamebryo engine, what they did to improve it who knows. Rift used Gamebryo. Guildwars uses their own game engine they wont release to any non-ncsoft game company. So the engine has limits all of them do, the point is do you have the talent to rewrite a engine to work how you need it? you said so earlier how noone knows your talent which is true but you need to decide on your own, not ask others for their input. hell intersetllar marines looks amazing and is made with this engine.

    again do some research on your own about all the engines, and honestly even if cry engine is the one you want can you afford it? if not then why worry about it? use what you can afford and go from there.
     
  41. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Well, I cant agree. If you have source code and 40 people like fussionfall, you can make mmo even from spreadsheet. With right budget you can do anything.
    I think right question is, which kind of game is easiest/cheapest to make in which engine. Unity is not universal answer.

    For seamless world it is must have some resource loading/asset streaming solved on the level of engine (and in very good quality, not like in UDK). So naturally you start with engines, where this is solved (Trinigy, Esenthel). There is nothing like that in Unity (asset bundles are not sufficient).
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  42. coffinsnail

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    BTW Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion used Gamebryo engine
     
  43. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Gamebryo is dead.
     
  44. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    From what i have readed so far about Unity in the internet seems very nice at start but not so good to make big games, but its cheap as you dont have to pay a % of your benefits and its cheaper to pay ppl to make a Unity game than make a game with an engine like cryengine for instance, much less ppl know how to use that engine. I think there are more commercial mmos made in Unity than Esenthel engine because Unity has a good marketing, its shown everywhere and its easy at start, and also can be used for many platforms, which is very nice. Also using Unityscript or C# is not so useful in the game industry, C++ is a must.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  45. dogzerx2

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    Not to be biased but I think your best bet is unity3D by a long shot!
     
  46. vegenarie

    vegenarie

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    You dont think
     
  47. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    Vegenarie - Please be polite and nice. Thanks!
     
  48. PrimeDerektive

    PrimeDerektive

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    Oblivion's world was not that big, it was ~6.4x6.4km, only a portion of it was ever loaded at one time, and it also had hiccup/loading times in between chunks.

    The standard Unity terrain is 2x2km... you could easily make that 2.133x2.133km, then set up a grid of 3x3 terrains and with some programming knowledge, set up a decent streaming scheme.
     
  49. Demostenes

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    1 in Unity, 2 in Esenthel. Considering, that Esenthel has 1000x smaller community it is not bad achievement.
     
  50. andorov

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    At least 3 in Unity, that I know of.

    Ofcourse, you will likely put up strawman arguments about source code license and what not.

    The reality is, if you are going out to make a game like Oblivion, you're probably going to have the source code license to any engine you choose. Its hedging your risk. Anyone attempting a big project hedges their risk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012