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What can I do to interest people to buy my Assets?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by infinitypbr, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    [This is a serious thread. I know some people will think it's a shameless plug, but it is not. Please trust me on that!]

    I've been working with some very talented people to create characters and monsters for my game. To pay for it (I've spent nearly $10,000 so far!), I figured I should sell them on the asset store. So all my stuff is there, and you can find the website for it at http://www.InfinityPBR.com

    However, I don't get sales. I've gotten 6 on my most popular character. The 2nd most popular has had 3, and the new one, out for about a week, zero.

    Here's some things that I figure are probably true:
    1. The characters I have available right now aren't the most in-demand.
    2. Some people are turned off by PBR, thinking that it means the look won't fit with the rest of the assets the've bought.
    3. Some people don't know what "Procedural" means for textures, or otherwise think procedural is not a good thing.
    4. When I lowered the price, when it was discounted, sales did not improve (or even happen in one case).
    5. When I had a free package to show people the power of "Procedural PBR", it got a bunch of downloads but no conversions to the other packages.

    Here's what I'm wondering:
    1. Is there anything I'm doing wrong?
    -- I've produced a bunch of YouTube videos, could "too many" be a problem? Or are my videos not good?
    -- I post in the forums whenever I have a reason to. For the most part no one replies, so the threads die.
    -- I've produced action-filled screenshots that I think look amazing, using other assets from the store, so people can see what they'd look like in popular environments. Is this a bad thing?
    2. Is the price right? Every time I ask this, people say "yes", and since I didn't see sales happen when I lowered prices, I'm assuming that's the case.
    3. What do you think I may be able to do to help people want to buy (And actually buy) these assets?

    I'd like to start bringing in some money or eventually I'll run out of savings and won't be able to keep making more! Of course, if no one finds them valuable, maybe that's a good thing :D

    Thanks everyone!
     
  2. kittik

    kittik

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    I have been contemplating buying the Mushroom Monsters asset for a few days now (I think it is in my wishlist). Just seen your other work and I think aside from the Mushrooms, Giant Worms, Chests and Barrels, I would not buy anything else.

    It is not that I do not like the other products, it is that I cannot see a use for them in my projects. I think your prices are reasonable and the quality of work is high.

    As for your second question/wonder, although the price in my view is acceptable, I simply do not need mushrooms at this point in time. I like to buy assets hours or maybe a day before using them. I do this in the hope that it goes onto special offer. I'd hate to lose out on a deal because I paid for something too early.

    As someone who has nothing on the Asset Store, I don't know think I will be of much help on questions 1 or 3. I have found your vids on Youtube useful and they gave me more confidence in wanting to buy the Mushroom Monsters. I would point out however, that the likes of 3D Forge put new assets on a lowered price for X amount of days (and point out in the forums and on the assets description that the offer is expiring soon) as a way to entice buyers in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    infinitypbr likes this.
  3. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    Firstly none of the links on your page worked for me so i'd have to go look them up my self... I'll do that later.
     
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  4. Stardog

    Stardog

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    With these things it's a combination of demand, advertising (eyeballs seeing them) and price.

    Sometimes people don't even know these models exist. Sometimes they know they exist, but don't need them. Sometimes they know they exist, need them, but can't afford them.

    Mushroom monster and such seem very specific and limited to very few games, for example.

    I would stop spending savings, or only put it into things that almost everyone will want (see what the most-rated (not highest) models on the store are and do something similar/better).

    Most-rated paid is this for 21 EUR - https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/6698
    Next is this for 2 EUR - https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/10767
    Next is this for 63 EUR - https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/5589

    Note they are all packs.
     
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  5. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Thanks! I originally had them on "launch sale" for 33% off, but that didn't seem to do anything. I've lowered the mushroom price from $49 to $39, and will leave it there for who knows how long, maybe forever. You've brought up some interesting points :)

    Ah! Missing ">" symbols. Thanks for the heads up! I just redesigned it yesterday and guess I didn't click everything.

    The next one will be a dragon package. I hope that's more mainstream as far as creatures/enemies go. It comes with a saddle/reins/bridle as well. It'll have three different heads, three different back spike type textures ,and two tail options. After that I hope to have a human male/female barbarian set, which I'm sure is more mainstream. Eventually it'll have animations to go with the dragon ,as a dragon rider.

    QUESTION: You (And others) have pointed out that "packages" are more popular. Often the packages are really just a few different texture sets. The "Procedural" aspect of these characters etc allow for pretty much an infinite amount of changes to the look/feel of the objects. Color, roughness, dirt, grime, blood, snow etc. In my mind, that's basically like including any texture look you could possibly want. When you see "procedural", do I do a good enough job of telling people who may not know what that means, who may have never experienced it before, what it is?

    Whenever possible we'll be having more options, like the multiple heads on the dragons. The humans will have many, many options for armor pieces & wardrobe, and skin tone will be procedural so any human tone + you could easily make goblin tones or other looks. (In an RPG I plan on making, I'd be changing the skin to a purple hue, for instance, when the character is poisoned, maybe pulsing red when they're super low on HP or something.)

    Thanks again!!
     
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  6. Stardog

    Stardog

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    Yeah, saying infinite texture variations, or customizable textures, is probably easier to understand.
     
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  7. kittik

    kittik

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    Agreed - I do not think that everyone understands Procedural. Can't believe I missed a 33% off sale! I think I'll get the Mushrooms within the next day or so considering the price may well be going back up. ;)

    To go into more depth on the matter of wanting a deal, I have found myself more reluctant to buy anything near the end of the month, in the hope that Level 11 will be offering it on a discount or even for free. Level 11 has totally changed my buying habits.

    I also agree with @Stardog that packs sell better and that things such as giant living Mushrooms aren't mainstream. Default fantasy bad guys seem to be Zombies and Skeletons, not giant Mushrooms and worms.

    I am sure that your Dragons Pack will be mainstream, who doesn't like Dragons?
     
  8. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I think I'll change my wording. Thanks!!

    Well, it won't go up anytime soon :D Although you're more than welcome to get it!

    Ok, thanks much guys! Your thoughts have been helpful. I do hope the dragon will be popular -- I'm really loving working on it, it's kind of really good looking imo. The humans should be good too. All of these are for my current game (Which is why I started with Mushrooms and worms -- they were easy to model for the modeler, and needed for the game).

    There's over 40 packages on my list of things to have made. Skeletons and zombies are up there, as well as the Goblins, Orcs & more human types like wizards & knights.
     
  9. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    And! As far as sales go, I've had my packages submitted for the sales for a while. my first package, the 2d Forest one, has been in two madness-type sales, and one of the others -- I think the weapon trails -- was in the medieval sale last year.

    I don't know the criteria for choosing what goes on sale, but I do know there are thousands of packages in the list, and most will never go on sale.

    I have forum posts for each of the characters (they all start with "[Infinity Series]"), if you subscribe to those, I'll for sure announce if they'll be on sale. I hear I get told before the are put on sale.

    (For Level 11, the way they do the free ones wouldn't work for me -- the pay is based not on download count but on previous download count, so until I'm crazy popular, having my stuff in the free sale may not be super smart)
     
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  10. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    +1 for this. Procedural is a term that can mean many different things (sometimes models, sometimes materials, many other meanings) which in the end just means it's a confusing term. Being more descriptive on what you actually mean is always better in the first few lines of your description.

    Towards the end of your description (since most people don't get that far and those that do should already have a good idea what you mean) it doesn't hurt to throw in all the "buzzwords" (confusing or not) including "procedural" "substance material", etc. so that if someone searches the store for these terms your asset will show up but definitely don't make confusing terms prominent in your description.
     
  11. manutoo

    manutoo

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    @sfbaystudios,
    for me, the main issue of your mobs is that they don't match the style of the other mobs available on the store. It might be because they use PBR texture, at least in part. So in the future when everything will be PBR, they may catch more sales.

    Other smaller issues, but way less important (in my eyes :) ):
    - a little bit pricey compared to non-PBR & non-customizable mobs (but this is understandable, so not a big issue)
    - description of Giant Worm doesn't give its number of triangles nor the resolution of the textures ; so if I wanted to buy it, then I'd have to contact you 1st to avoid any bad surprise (idem for Gargoyle)
    - require very recent version of Unity (5.1 ; there might still be a lot of people with U4)

    Note: they are a lot of good barrels on the store, so it might be hard to sell new ones.

    I hope it helps... :)
     
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  12. Archania

    Archania

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    I like your work but typical I have no money to purchase them. They are on my wish list though.
    I actually love the detail and they look fantastic.
    Only issue that I have is that there are already some of the same assets on the store. Nothing wrong with that at all just limits people due to possibly already buying similar one from another person.
    The idea of the procedural is great but as others have said it is something that gets lost on people not fully understanding what it means.
    What you said about the next models you are making, I have no need for them but hopefully others do. I really need more monsters to be honest. Giants, trolls, things that most people aren't doing. Might be an idea. Just take a look at d&d monster manual. A ton of creatures. Now not sure if that would fit into your game.
    Hmm now to win the lottery, would solve all my buying habits lol.
    I really like your stuff and think it will be a great fit in what I am trying to accomplish. Just keep at it and hopefully people will recognize the skill and details that you have done.
     
  13. Schneider21

    Schneider21

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    I've wondered this as well. I've only made a single asset so far, and I discovered that marketing it is the hardest part.

    When I first released the asset, I had a forum thread going (linked to from the WIP thread, which I updated every couple days leading up to release) and posted to Twitter with some various game dev hashtags and a link to the asset store page. I think my asset first went on sale February 14th. My first sale didn't come until March 3rd, but I ended up selling 4 copies throughout the month. I think I may have tweeted again somewhere in there. On May 7th, I updated the asset with new parts. Updated the forum thread and tweeted it as well. Didn't see much action, so I tweeted again mid-June with a couple more hashtags. Since then, I've sold one copy in June and three more in July.

    I completed the form to be added to one of the sales promotions, but never heard back or got added. This was super depressing when a few weeks later, they had the big Sci Fi asset sale, which mine would have been perfect for. I believe in the quality of my asset, and feel the biggest thing I'm lacking is exposure ("If people only knew about my product, they'd have to buy it!"). I have, however, considered cost as being prohibitive to potential customers, as in all likelihood, the people who are going to buy my asset aren't the pro-level devs, but the hobbyist and amateur guys who want to build a space ship sim but don't know where to start. That said, I still think the price I've decided on is more than fair, so I can't bring myself to undercut the price any further.

    So here are the conclusions I've come to when you have a good asset at a good price:
    • Promote It - The only way people are going to find out about your asset is by you telling them about it. Everyone pretty much agrees the Asset Store's search kinda sucks.
    • ... but don't overdo it - Find that fine line between promotion and spamming, and walk it carefully. Don't just stick to one platform. Find other forums and social circles and get your product exposed there.
    • Tagging - I don't think I did this smartly, because when you look at similar assets to mine, I never show up in the related assets area.
    • Get Reviewed - I have one review, which despite being 5 stars, isn't enough to affect my overall rating. Find a way to get reviews. And when they do come in, respond to them, good or bad. People like to see your responses, and it's just another way of showing you really care about your product.
    • Give it away - Haven't done this yet, but probably will soon. Run some type of promotion to win a free voucher. In your case, it may get someone to love your work who will then buy your other assets. At the very least, it should increase awareness your product exists and possibly convert a few "tried to win that for free"s to "guess I'll buy it anyway"s.
    Keep us updated on what works for you! And good luck!
     
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  14. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    I think the biggest factor is application. I've seen your stuff and think the Procedural approach is great, imo i wouldn't change the term - if someone doesn't know what it is then its more incentive to look at it while people that do understand it will immediately see the value.

    So it boils down to application, who wants to use this model? How flexible is this character? How many genres does this fit into? Humanoid characters will probably sell the best because they're easier to use, everything else is basically sort of niche. Monsters are fairly 'in demand' but how many games have a giant sand worm, evil mushroom creature or winged-ogre looking gargoyles? Where would they fit into some game's lore?

    When I see the assets I definitely don't think they're poor quality nor do I think the terms are confusing, I just don't have a use for them. Maybe that's the problem?
     
  15. Rico21745

    Rico21745

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    I personally like the look of your assets but sadly the style doesn't fit my needs. Generally speaking I now stay away from Characters in terms of asset store purchases, unless they come with a varied set of animations I could maybe retarget to my own.

    The reason for this being that you see a bunch of shovelware games out on Steam use said assets and now you end up lumped in with them because you happened to use an asset someone recognized, thus rendering any of your other work meaningless :-/

    One tip I could maybe give that may help is to really focus on procedural if you want to keep doing assets, but maybe look past just textures and go into making the models themselves procedural/modular (add parts you can swap/add to model/etc to make them look different).

    Another tip would be to perhaps change niches. Fantasy is overdone, there are around a billion fantasy monsters out there of varying styles. Maybe look at other genres like horror/post apoc?

    One final tip is perhaps try a different type of asset. Procedurally textured environment assets would be a welcome change. In addition, there is a HUGE need for animations on the store. The quality of a lot of the animations on the asset store is terrible for the most part (a few good ones) and the few good ones that are there are approximately 1000 copies of humanoid standard motion (run walk turn,jump, etc).

    Where are the survival horror themed animation packs? Where are the melee attack packs? Where are the humanoid monster attack packs? How about pain and death animation packs? How about a Dark Souls type movement animation pack? I'd kill for some of those!

    Hope any of that helps!
     
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  16. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    When I was making "The Barbarian" I faced a similar issue -- a lot of things don't really match too well together. I found enough that did match, but the characters -- Even the NAME -- all were based only on what was available in the store, rather than what I wanted.

    PBR looks amazing in Unity 5. However, the textures created with these work with legacy shaders as well, and work great in 4.6. Generally they match the middle-of-the-road style that is less specific.

    Here's the mushrooms as now they can be found in my game - -I think they look really good in there, and they match the look of the game, 100% NOT PBR, perfectly.



    I try to point this out in the descriptions, but again I don't know if I'm communicating this well.

    Here's the gargoyle walking around the new "Top Down Caves" by Manufactura 4k. Again, I think the look blends perfectly.



    Last one, the same gargoyle, this time flying around the Medieval demo scene from Manufactura 4k.



    It requires whatever version I'm running, which is kind of silly, because that would mean I have to find the minimum version, and always upload the package from that. However, 5.2 will likely have some huge speed improvements for this process, so I"ll almost certainly upgrade to that when I can. Unity 5 is only required to export the textures, once exported, they work in any version as they're just normal textures.

    Yeah, I do realize that the ones I have out right now aren't as main-stream as humanoids :D The problem with the animations is real -- most in th store are terrible in my opinion. Most of the characters that come w/ animations are horrible. I ended up using Mixamo for my game because the animations that came w/ the characters were so fake looking.

    The animator I'm working with now is phenomenal, and the animations are very realistic and details. The physics of the body movement look real, not stiff. The human animations will eventually work with other humans, I'm sure, just drag them in and see what happens. The problem though is the clothing etc. We'll be animating cloaks and all that, and building the animations based on the bulk of the characters & wardrobe. Same animations on other characters may not look right. But maybe they will!

    There is a "Dungeon" package in the works, but it's taking FOREVER to finish. You can check out the WIP thread here, with a lot of videos and photos: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/in...would-you-buy-an-early-access-of-this.330081/
    Part of the reason it's taking so long is because it's so very procedural. Like insanely so. Marble/Stone/Metal, different patterns (all of which are procedural themselves, in size etc), all the environmental stuff, plus things like adding overlays (like a strip of metal on a wall) and grates (which are see-thru and have depth even though the object is a flat opaque plane). So it's taking a long time :D We're going to do the dragon first (I think the modeling is all done now, I'm working on the texturing now, while the animator animates), then the barbarian, then the dungeon.

    Then more human stuff, more monsters, and weapons/armor.
     
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  17. Whippets

    Whippets

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    I like your pbr stuff. Will probably buy most packs over the next few months. Money is short in summer, have family holidays to pay for.
     
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  18. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I'll keep making more then! :D Give you options.
     
  19. derf

    derf

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    I reviewed your current models. The following are my opinions, I like your treasure chests they look very realistic in texturing, the plant creature I can find a use for and I may buy it next month. I cannot think of a use for the mushroom creature or the gargoyle at this time. Some of the barrels look cartoony in the wood grain textures and some look real nice.

    Overall though I would rate you 5 out of 5 stars in quality.

    Now to your questions/statements.

    This is the biggest culprit right now for all modelers (price being the second). There are a large number of fantasy models on the asset store already (quality varies), but very few of other types of genres. To me it looks like we need more interior models of furniture and props and more exterior/interior environment construction packages, again across several genres and game play styles (action/adventure, horror and science fiction) and higher quality.

    I know there is a viable need for Old West models (interiors, exteriors, props and player and non-player 3-D models) something like Red Dead Redemption.

    I do not feel that this is a problem. As Unity moves forward all models will benefit from this. Eventually, everyone who uses Unity will be in need of PBR models anyway, so don't worry about this and YES it will take time to get everyone to this point, but that point is coming.

    This may have a small impact with your sales. Other's in this thread have mentioned a better way to describe the customization of the models through the textures; but over all most people use the word "Procedural" in game development without even knowing what it actually means anyway.


    Now price DOES have an affect on your sales, but it goes hand in hand with what is in "demand" or a better way to say it is, what the developers currently DESIRE and what they are willing to SPEND will determine your revenue stream.

    You will probably not get a single sale for a psychotic looking bugs bunny like cartoon rabbit with a bloody carrot or meat clever in its hand for example, even if you ask $2.00 for it.

    However if you sold a package of 4 models with 5 interchangeable heads each with many varied textures for customization, I can see that selling much faster and more plentiful. Than its just a matter of targeting the right genre with it.

    Free will ALWAYS get you downloads, but not all free downloads turn into sales. Most free downloads, in some cases, appear in some of the most crappy money grab of a worthless game so be careful with free examples as they could hurt your rep as a modeler.

    For 3-D models what would really help in sales (and this is for everyone), are models that have longevity or can be used easily in a particular genre they are design for (Fantasy/Horror/Science Fiction/etc.).

    One way is to separate the head model from the body models so we can combine them. Create a handful of body models for male or female actors and than create many different male and female heads (different hair styles/facial marks/race/helmets/hats/etc.). Finally, each body model will need to have many textures for variations and each head model will need several textures as well. You can focus an entire package towards one genre if you wish like a fantasy pack of civilians, fantasy pack of merchants, fantasy pack of knights, etc.

    The more functionality you can give us, the devs, out of the models you create; the more sales you will get from us.


    Here is just an example from my own personal desires, I would love a more detailed and expansive modern zombie package, something like The Walking Dead: Survival Instincts.

    Modern Zombie Package: 1 male model missing left arm; 1 male model missing right arm; 1 male model complete;
    1 female model missing left arm; 1 female model missing right arm; 1 female model complete. 5 male model heads. 5 female model heads. Some male and female head models missing nose/part of cheek/some teeth missing/part of skull showing through/tangled-filthy hair/little to no hair/etc.

    Each body model would have full customization for variety in general appearance (customized shirts, customized pants, dirty/filthy/tattered appearance, etc.) and each head would also need to be customized in similar fashion. This creates the illusion of having a vast amount of unique models right out of the box. Now simply rig each of them accordingly so they can share the same animations. Some of my desired animations include: Idle, Shambling, Getting Down On Knees, Eating On Knees, Get Up From Knees, Grapple, Grapple-Bite.

    Also a Modern Zombie Survivor pack as well. Similar ideas, couple male and female body models with several male and female heads with texturing for customization with some animations and mecanim ready.


    YES, I know this is a lot of work; but, THIS is the type of dedicated and talented modeling we the developers need on the asset store right now.
     
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  20. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    That's generally the direction I'm going w/ the human. We'll be starting, I hope, with male & female. Each would have three heads, each three hairs. Skin is procedural, so it can be any tone you'd like. The first one will be "Barbarians" (it's what I need for my game,a after all!), and then we'll be testing add-on clothing like "Wizards" etc, which will have drag-and-drop clothes w/o a body, to make the human from the first package in to wizards/battle mage etc. Generally speaking there will be a TON of clothing pieces. And each procedural which kind of makes it an insane number of looks. (A plate armor, for instance, would likely have the option for ornamentation or not, custom metals with it's own wear & tear, all before getting into grunge and dirt).

    I'm going to stick with the fantasy stuff for now because it's what I need for my games (the dragon is for a VR game we're working on). However, I'm very aware of what's available in the store and I hope to fix all the holes I found when I was doing my game with these.
     
  21. Deleted User

    Deleted User

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    Well for me personally, the gargoyle / mushroom monster etc. is really specific. It'd only suit the sort of games you're working on, chests look cool I've no problem with them. As for barrels I could make them myself in no time at all..

    I don't get this either?

    I'm not sure what's procedural about these textures? What's the different between that and using the standard Unity shader with a detail map / swapping out a few materials with other textures? I had a look, it's cool you have a shader that can mix grunge and stuff. But it's hardly procedural texturing....

    Another thing I noticed, you're using Manufaktura 4K's assets in within your own picture demonstrations..

    Don't get me wrong, obviously a lot of time and care went into it and they look fine for a stylistic sort of game, just might need some more variation in general.
     
  22. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    We generate the textures procedurally, so it is :) While it's possible to do the changes in run time (like to slowly build-up dirt or fade through colors or something), we're expecting mostly it'll be used in-editor to create custom looks. It's nice when packages include multiple colors/looks to the model, but unless you use photoshop, you'er stuck with those. And stuck with ONLY that look, which other people have. Often they don't match with your game or scenery or the mood you're going for.

    So with sliders you can change every aspect of the look. Behind the scenes it's a procedural workflow, often starting with a pre-made texture. With things like the ground dirt, you can easily fit the creatures into whatever environment you're using.

    I decided to start showing them in real-game environments. Manufactura4k is probably the most popular, and has a wide-range of looks to choose from. I wanted people to realize that the models look good in those scenes without any changes. After all, there's a decent chance anyone who buys my stuff has also bought his stuff, and may actually be planning on using it! Eventually I'd like to have my own environments, in which case I'd use those. But that'll be a ways away.
     
  23. Deleted User

    Deleted User

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    Ok cool, the bit in red shows that it's not really procedural? You use textures but generate them?..http://www.upvector.com/?section=Tutorials&subsection=Intro to Procedural Textures

    Read that, if I wanted it to be a hexagonal shape glowing texture attached to a barrel for example which can be defined at any resolution it is of course a procedural texture. A .SBAR (Substance) can be (and generally is) procedural..

    Not that I really care, if you can get new looks and customise it's a good thing.. Bit confusing though, sure just keep adding more that might be generically wanted.. I'm not surprised specific stuff doesn't sell well, because it's a pre-determined market.
     
  24. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I suppose it's procedural mixed with less procedural things. The materials are substance materials, many of the base materials we use are completely procedurally generated. We mix that with pre-made textures using other applications (the "Default" look of the barrels, chests etc), and add procedurally generated things like the dirt as well. Most of it is strictly procedural. The only parts that aren't are the pre-made textures.
     
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  25. Deleted User

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    Ahh ok, I get you now :)..
     
  26. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    The monsters look great. Id agree with shadow.

    What I'd do with it is put the monsters in a pack and sell it for like $50 a pop (try to find that sweet spot if there is any) to go after the mass consumer who just wants to use monsters without getting too specific.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  27. tiggus

    tiggus

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    The models look really nice, as others have already said though - they are very specific to a certain type of game.

    Also I might have missed it but things like poly counts are important to know, does it work on mobile, etc.

    Really like the look though, wish there was more high quality monsters like that on the store.
     
  28. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Ah -- yes, I should mention it works on mobile. My game is mobile, so they HAVE to work on mobile :)

    I think, though, that for the most part everything works on mobile now. Unless they're doing some tessellation or warping of the image or something like that, it'll work on mobile. Polycount is important and I may have forgotten to post that on the Giant Worm page.
     
  29. delinx32

    delinx32

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    I saw the gargoyle on sale. I didn't buy it for the following reasons:

    1) I'm not currently buying characters
    2) There is a price point at which I will buy even if I'm not buying and it was above that price point
    3) Selling a single model doesn't help because it won't fit with other models that I bought. If it were a group of models packaged together that shared the same theme then it might be more worthwhile.
    4) My game doesn't call for a gargoyle.

    I personally won't spend 60$ on a model until I'm well out of the prototyping phase. At this point, financial resources are directed to other things. If it were 20, I *might* have picked it up just to see what the whole PBR thing was all about. The videos you had were pretty cool.

    The PBR thing is definitely something people don't understand. I don't understand it, and even allegorithmics docs on the matter are ambiguous, they read like "This is that thing that does something awesome! Give us monies!!"
     
  30. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I do realize that the more I get out the more valuable they'll all be since they will all work together.

    it took me a year to figure out the substance stuff, and that's with getting a private one-on-one with Wes, the guy who does their videos, at last years unite. Now that I have it figured out its amazing, but it does take a long time to get it all working. I just finished with the dragon, and just setting it up for changes took well over 20
    Hours of straight work. Not including any fixes I may have to make or doing all the unity side of it. Procedural materials are so good, I feel it's worth extra time at he front.
     
  31. delinx32

    delinx32

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    You're definitely putting out quality work, so I wouldn't get discouraged just yet. I think once you have a larger library, and maybe offer a pack at a discount over buying individual, then you'll probably get more sales. I remember seeing the gargoyle and thinking "wow, that's really cool, I wonder how they did that. Too bad I don't have any other PBR stuff to go with it."

    Take this for example: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/36685

    If one were to buy it, they would get a whole slew of monsters that look good together. I think stuff like that probably sells better because there is more "perceived value", even if the price isn't exactly low.

    I'm very interested in the PBR stuff, but every time I google it I just get more confused.
     
  32. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I don't know the specific or the science of it all. I let others do that :D

    Most of us are used to Bumped Diffuse, sometimes +Specular. Normal maps are obvious, even if I still don't quite get how, and diffuse too. Those are still there. For our stuff, we use the "Metallic Roughness" workflow, which replaces the specular value with a map for Metallic (simple black/white -- white = metal black = not), and in the alpha channel of that is the roughness values. More rough (white) the less reflective the material is, basically, less rough (black) the more reflective it is. the values are rarely ever close to the edges . Dirt, for instance, would be very rough -- it scatters light. While mud isn't. So when you're adding ground dirt to our stuff, if you want it to look more muddy, you'll bring the roughness down, which means it'll reflect more light.

    Same with blood -- take our "grunge", up the contrast so it's more thick, and bring down the roughness to make it look wet. Or make it more rough and a bit darker to look like dried blood. For the barrels you can use the "Ceiling Dirt", change the color to something bold, make it wet or dry, and it looks like paint.

    Fortunately all of this is controlled w/ sliders and after a short pause while it caches data, it's very quick so you can see the effect instantly, which helps to show what each thing does.

    I also like to point out that when you export the maps, you can bring the Albedo (= diffuse) & Normal maps into any legacy shader and it just works. Usually we export a specular texture as well, so that should work too with the legacy shaders. That's how I use the characters in my "The Barbarian" game. That game is 4.6 and won't be upgraded to 5.0.

    Another question: A while back i Was thinking of writing a little material that would let you change any of your current materials to PBR. It's a multistep process, so idk if people would be interested in doing the work for it. I'll describe the steps, let me know if this is something you'd find valuable. I got stuck on one part, and got busy with the other work.

    1. Bring your diffuse map into photoshop or another image editing app. This is likely a diffuse from a legacy package that contains diffuse/normal and maybe specular. Use that to create a "Metallic" map. That means you paint white over the metal parts, black over the non-metal parts. Any blank space can be ignored.

    2. With the same diffuse, new image, create a "ColorID" map. Up to 5 different "materials" can be used. Perhaps one for skin, one for leather, one for wood, one for metal etc. It's important to separate different textures, although if two substances in the map will have the same roughness, they can share the same Color.

    3. Save those, and open our special Material. You'll bring your Diffuse/Normal map into some inputs, as well as your Metallic Map & ColorID Map.

    4. Using sliders, assign a roughness value to each of the colors in your ID. If you're not using a color, you can ignore it.

    5. Export the bitmaps, and you'll have a full set of PBR textures: Diffuse/Normal (same as you already had), MetallicRoughness (combined into one map). It won't create a height map (which isn't needed in most cases) or an emission map, but the emission map you could create yourself in photoshop (it's just black & white, where white = emissive).

    So there's a bit of work involved, but in theory you could take a package that has one atlas, like something from Manufactura4k, and with a little patience make it 100% PBR.

    It'd be a free thing, just to drum up knowledge of all the work I've been doing, and hopefully help persuade everyone that this new stuff would go very very well with your old packages -- if not by making my stuff non-PBR, then by making the old stuff PBR.

    Would you guys be interested -- in a way where you'd actually want to spend the time to make it work for yourself? (I also figure I could have an upload area where people can upload the maps they create for certain popular work, so others who have it can just download them -- just the metallic and colorID maps, nothing copywritten). Let me know what you think!
     
  33. kanga

    kanga

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    This thread is jam packed with good advice. Having had a look around the sales area a bit, if you want to make money from selling models you really need to do it full time. The model packs do the best and I liked the comment about procedural forms and environments/ props. I think if you make plugins and tools you are going to have an easier time due to universal usefulness. There are people who live by selling models all over the web (not just here) but they have thousands of them and have assembled whole libraries and they do this full time from 8 in the morning to 8 at night. Also dont be amazed if people are not lining up in droves to use the procedural textures, having to configure models in a later package to use in an older package is not a selling point at all. People want to buy things they dont have to mess with too much.
     
  34. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Yeah, tons of good ideas, many of which I'm implementing already.

    I point out that it *can* be used in 4.6, for those who have projects that won't be upgraded to 5. But ideally 5 is PBR and the way to go. There is that extra step of actually choosing what look to give. I mean, you don't have to, you can take the default. But it's easy to move sliders around.
     
  35. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    Tags were mentioned, but they deserve more attention in this thread. Unity has millions of users. There's a market for high quality fantasy RPG monsters and props. Please make it easy for developers to find your assets. If I enter "fantasy rpg monsters" in the Asset Store's search bar, I'd hope to find your models near the top. At a minimum, make sure they have these tags: medieval fantasy rpg monster monsters creature creatures

    I'll also "me too" the suggestions to change "PBR" to a simpler term and sell packs. Packs give me confidence that I'm getting a set of models in a consistent style. And even if I don't currently have a need for a specific model in a pack, I'll be more likely to buy the pack because it has other models that I do need, even if it's only slightly cheaper than buying them a la carte.
     
  36. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    When you have hundreds of assets on the store and they can be easily found you should be making a good number of sales. There could be any number of reasons why a single asset doesn't sell well. Maybe it doesn't fit in with the theme of many games being made by people willing to spend money on assets. Maybe it does and most people don't like the shape of the model. Maybe they don't like the animations. It's probably safe to say that anything that can be a reason for people to not buy is a reason one or more people are not buying. In marketing and sales it is all about understanding the reasons a person will say "no" and addressing those concerns.
     
  37. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    How do I add tags? I don't think I've seen that as an option in the Producers panel -- or is it simply #rpg #fantasy #medieval etc?

    Is there a difference in perception between packs and individual assets that all go together? All of this stuff is the same animator, the same modeler and the same texture designer. And they're all made for a single game concept (my game), so they should work seamlessly together. Putting them in a package wouldn't change that.

    I know the Mushroom Monster and Giant Worm go pretty well together -- both somewhat slimy creatures that can go in wet and dry (But mostly wet) environments well. I could package them together, but I'd still want them available individually. I want to avoid having to manage multiple packages, or split reviews/ratings.

    Alternatively, I could offer un-packed packages. With the upgrade system, I could say if you buy the Mushroom ($39), you can "upgrade" to the Giant Worm (usually $39) for $19, and vice versa. Would that be an idea? I feel that may just confuse the heck out of people.
     
  38. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    How's this for an updated description?

    Unity Forum Link
    Demos & More Information

    Giant Worm is a High Poly & Low Poly texture-customizable PBR Animated character.

    CUSTOMIZE TEXTURES
    Use sliders to adjust the look & feel of the Giant Worm. Easily change colors, add special effects like dirt, mud, blood, ice, snow, moss & more. It's fast and allows you to create any number of looks that perfectly suit your game. Main texture maps are 2048x2048.

    PBR
    The Giant Worm uses real PBR values, not half-baked or made up PBR. We start out with real world materials and you can adjust from there. Maps included: Diffuse | Normal | Roughness | Metallic | Height | Ambient Occlusion

    LEGACY SHADERS
    Don’t be fooled by the “requires Unity 5” message! The textures our system exports work with legacy shaders the same way any other character you already have does. You’ll need Unity 5 to set up the textures, but once exported, you can bring them in to ANY Unity version and they’ll work.

    ANIMATIONS
    Idle
    Idle Break
    Got Hit (Head)
    Got Hit (Body)
    Death
    Attack 1
    Attack 2
    Attack 3
    Block (looped w/ start & end animations)
    Appear
    Disappear

    PARTICLES
    Poison Breath Particle Included!

    TEXTURES
    Comes with a pre-made base texture. Use sliders to adjust the colors, roughness of various sections. Use sliders to add environment FX like Dirt, Snow, Grunge & more.

    Includes a “Metal” material creator, which allows you to customize metals to be used on the Carapace, Underside, Spikes, Head & Helmet (individually or all together).

    Once you like the look of your creature, click the “Export Bitmaps” button and within seconds you’ll have all the texture maps you need for use with the Standard Shader or any Legacy Shaders you’re using in your game.

    POLYCOUNT
    We provide multiple LODs from High Poly (good for cinematics) to Low Poly (great for mobile).
    LOD 0: 37.2k
    LOD 1: 18.6k
    LOD 2: 9.3k
    LOD 3: 4.7k
    LOD 4: 2.3k
    LOD 5: 1.2k

    Check out more info & all of our models at InfinityPBR.com

    #rpg #medieval #fantasy #pbr #substance #monsters #monster #creature #creatures
     
  39. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    Sorry, I went with the term already used in this thread. The actual term is "asset label." In the Unity editor, select your model. In the lower right of the Inspector view, click the blue "..." button. Then enter each asset label ("rpg", "fantasy", etc.). All asset labels will be associated with your package in the Asset Store. This may make a huge difference in how many people find your stuff.

    I don't think I'm alone in feeling like packs are better deals. Say I'm only interested in the Gargoyle ($60) and Worm ($40), for a total of $100, or an average of $50/model. If you sold a 3-pack of Gargoyle + Worm + Mushroom for $120, I'd be tempted to buy it with the rationalization that each model averages only $40. You just earned an extra 20% from me, and I feel like I got a deal even if I never use the Mushroom model.

    I've been meaning to do this with my products, too. You could price the upgrades so they match the 3-pack price. This way I don't feel penalized if I've previously purchased a single model instead of the 3-pack. But I'd definitely go for the packs, not upgrades, as the default bargain offer.

    Maybe start with the benefits and save the features for lower in the description. With so many assets to skim through, we want to know what right away what a product will do for us, without having to interpret how features (e.g., PBR) translate into benefits (e.g., detailed, realistic monster skin).
     
    Ryiah and GarBenjamin like this.
  40. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    How's this for an updated description?
    Thanks! I did not know about that.

    which parts of the description do you consider "Benefits" vs. "features"? I think I may have different views than most people -- I think the procedural & pbr aspects are the biggest benefits, but I'm getting the impression that others may not feel the same :D

    I'll think about packages -- maybe when I have more that fit *really* well together. The Gargoyle doesn't fit w/ the worm/mushroom as well as it might with other dungeon-type creatures. But maybe it does. I'll think about it. Would you suggest keeping them available individually as well?
     
  41. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    I always use the Mom Test: If my thoroughly non-technical mother understands it, it's a benefit. Otherwise it's a feature. She'll comprehend "a highly-detailed, realistic-looking slimy monster worm with customizable colors." On the other hand, "high-polygon, procedurally-based rendered model" will only get a blank stare. :)
     
  42. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Ah, yes, I understand I think :D
     
  43. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    Have you set up the Google Analytics integration for your store content? I think it would help you to know how many people are looking at the content in the first place (so you know whether the problem is that nobody's looking at it, vs looking at it and choosing not to buy it).
     
    Dustin-Horne, derf and TonyLi like this.
  44. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    One more thing: I just noticed that your minimum Unity version is 5.1.1. A lot of people are still on 5.0.x. If it's possible to submit a version for 5.0.1+, you'll expand your potential customer base substantially.
     
  45. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I have -- there are thousands. That's why I'm so confused. I get >150 visits a day, but seems like one sale for every 1000-2000 visits. Seems low to me.

    There was one problem w/ the substances not working properly in 5.0. I think 5.1.1 was the earliest version for that. 5.2 is supposed to have another slew of improvements for it, mostly in the speed department.

    I try to point out that while you need the required version to make the textures, once that's done they'll work in all versions (even 3.5 I think!). So I kind of wish there was a way to specify that better.
     
  46. tedthebug

    tedthebug

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    This may be from left field but you could run a competition via the forum for people to present a game MVP that would suit one of your art packages. They can use placeholder art obviously. You then pick the one you like & give them a package. Alternatively, make them use one item/pack in the game & win the remaining items they don't own.

    I also agree with all the above. I'm just starting so I'm not much of a programmer but I'm even less of an artist so all the technical art stuff/benefits in the description meant nothing to me. I suppose just remember that artists will make their own stuff so programmers & most likely beginners will be your main customers.
     
  47. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    While it's a bit of a pain at the moment, I think on this your approach is the best. Better to be limiting your audience now than get some poor reviews. Trends change over time and more users slowly adopt newer versions so it won't be that big of a deal in a few months. However, if you had users buy it and try to use it on a Unity version that has issues with substances you would get poor reviews which would stay with the product forever. Sure it limits sales but its probably best to do so for the moment.
     
  48. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Unfortunately I only get to give out 12 a year total, so I will stick those usually for reviews and such.

    I'm not an artist (the modeler & animator are!), so hopefully the programming side will help. I'll go back and make sure all my code is commented. It's all the Unityscript variant, because I've not yet found the time to figure out the differences between it and C#, but the logic should be the same, and I think much of the syntax is.

    Yeah, I agree. Also I want to avoid having to manage multiple versions and all that. 5.2 is supposed to have some great improvements for this stuff, and hopefully at that point I can stick with that as the minimum. And just keep reminding people that the end result is usable in any version :D
     
  49. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

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    Hi! Its great that you had 10k to start with high quality assets, instead of 0 like us. :D
    My impression from your publisher page matches what everyone said. I don't know how people feel about the word "procedural", I know what it means, even tho I never used it, and its more appealing to me than "customizable/infinite". :)
    So I'll just confirm, and pitch in with our own experience, and tips.

    1. I really like how it all looks but a lot of it is too specific, despite having procedural textures. Usually people with resources will go to freelancers for specific models. Like you did.
    2. Yes people prefer packs over a single model. There's a higher chance they'll need something from a pack for 70$, than that single asset for 40$. I read it somewhere that asset store buyers are looking for assets that they can build a world with, and usually in one pack, when it comes to models. Plus a pack is more alluring. :p
    3. Scripting sells better than models.
    4. Assets people can re-use (scripts/extensions, generic models, stuff that generally isn't a focus), will sell far more than something specific, and recognizable. Like the barrels, and chests. I really like them. If I needed them I'd buy them, only because they're VERY reusable and with procedural textures.
    5. Make frequent updates, to have a legit reason to bump up your thread and appear in new releases again. People check new releases far more than I thought initially, as I never did. I post a lot of WIP screenshots when working on an update, or whenever I make something cool with our packs. :)
    6 . Having a free asset is good if you can afford it. It will gain popularity if its useful, and drive traffic towards you, some of those hundreds of downloads will check out your publisher page and see the other assets, and some of it will lead to new sales. Even one sale gained from that a month is a win, right? If you're popular with quality assets like Manufactura K4, BITGEM, Quantum Theory, 3DForge, and others, then you don't really have need to drive traffic that way, seeing as how you'll be featured constantly, not leaving anyone else room for fame. *murmurs swear words*
    7. Quality is great, quality plus quantity is even better.
    8. Videos are good too. Making them 30-60 secs long is best if they're a promo/trailer. We've grown to have a short attention span. :D

    I'll add more if I remember something. PS. Congrats on getting featured! The worm is great. :)
     
  50. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Savings and sold stocks. Instead of mutual funds, I'm investing in kick ass game models :D Much more fun!

    I'm re-submitting the package with updated text and tagged models. I'll keep them available solo for now, but I'll create a new package later today that has the Mushroom Monster & Giant Worm together. I figure packages should have characters that kind of work well together, so the Gargoyle & Dragon would eventually be in other packages.

    This will be a "Monster" package, I guess. It'll start w/ these two for idk how much yet, and then eventually include a "Plant Monster" (man-sized monster w/ leaves & walking, and a giant mouth, maybe a three-sided mouth) and a Rock Monster (a pile of rocks that turns into a humanoid to smash things. Both will be animated of course, and include particles. The plant won't have a face (like the mushroom), but will have a mouth (like the worm). The rock will have rock-face features (like rocks for eyes/eyebrows etc), most likely.

    The price will go up for each one I add, but anyone who already bought it will get the rest for free. I suppose as a "thanks for helping finance the new ones!" thing :D

    I'll submit that today, and see if I can get it approved fast.
     
    Archania likes this.