What are your favourite melee combat systems?

I'm trying to decide on a melee combat system for my game and I need some ideas.
I'm interested to know what your favourite melee systems are and what makes them so good.

Examples of melee systems I've enjoyed:
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Shadow of Mordor
Mount and Blade

To give some background, it's third person, there are currently combos, special attacks, and an invincible dodge roll, you can move while attacking for lighter attacks, but not for heavy attacks (I'm not sure if I like moving while attacking so I might change this).
You can also transform to enable different attacks.
You'll be fighting multiple enemies at once.
I think I'd like to keep it to 4 combat actions:

1. Basic/Combo Attack
2. Heavy/Special Attack
3. Dodge/Roll/Mobility
4. Block/Counter

 

Mount and Blade, Dark Souls, seems like you basic setup could work well with either of these general schemes.

For me, it's all about simplicity, instant reactions, and varied enemies with distinct strengths/weaknesses. Any command should be able to be overuled by dodge (except maybe some special attacks). Combat should feel fast, even if enemies telegraph their moves to make it playable for non-twelve-year-olds (bloodborne is a good example of a game that feels fast but is relatively slow compared to similar games like Ninja Gaiden). Sense of speed mostly comes from FX, but also from the speed of your own attacks coupled with instant response to input.

I like directional attack control -- I don't like mashing the same button and watching as my character flips around destroying everything (batman.) I like to target enemies individually and be able to make instantaneous counter attacks.

Usually melee combat boils down to two styles -- crowd control of enemies slower than you, or dodge/wait for opening/test of patience and reflex against single enemy faster than you.

 

I like the idea of it being fast, fluid and responsive.
Mount and Blade has more of a 1 on 1 style for combat which swaps out speed for accuracy.
Dark Souls combat could work fairly well, I haven't played it much, but it seems like you don't fight multiple enemies too often.
I could do some sort of hybrid approach, taking Dark Souls combat and adding the easy counter-attack mechanism from batman which will help dealing with multiple enemies.

The distinct strength and weaknesses is something I definitely want to include.
You're able to transform, giving yourself different attack types which will be stronger against certain opponents.
I think I'll need to make the transformations fairly fluid too so you can change forms during combat easily.

Thanks for the response, it really helps to stir up some ideas!
I'll be putting up a playtest of the current combat in the next feedback friday, so you can see how bad it is currently

 

DKS was a little better at targeting individual guys at a time, but you did go against mobs fairly often. One thing you could do, but this was more of a "pro" tactic, was to not lock onto enemies and then, whichever movement direction you have pressed when you press attack, you will swing that way. So you could be facing north, but if you press down and attack you instantly change direction and attack the opposite way.

I always thought that, if you had wider area attack swings, this would be a great control scheme for something like a zombie masher.

 

Just my 2cents but I prefer setting a goal to achieve and than designing mechanics around doing that.

For example I may want the player to feel like a master hitman so I would design a combat system around achieving that (like quick one hit take downs, small openings, diversion options mid combat). Trying to recreate an existing system shifts attention to that task which leads to blindspots for solutions which may fit ones own game better.
On the other hand if I have specific design questions I would definitly use references but this inherintly puts me in a different mindset.

Anyways to answer your question. This wasn´t a complete or maybe even intentional combat system but I kinda feel in love with the way it worked out: In the original mirrors edge was an agile enemy type from which you were supposed to run away from if you had no gun. It was immune to most frontal attacks and had this huge sweeping move to punish you for getting too close. This lead due to Mirrors Edge already strong movement system to this complex cat and mouse game where I dodged the sweeping moves with jumping/wall running/side stepping, attacked the back or side during their recovery animations with different&specific attacks (to not trigger their counteranimation) and constantly parkoured all over the place to avoid being surrounded. I propably spend more time on this one stage where those enemies were introduced than like have the game till I could consistently take them down head on (well without cheesing their AI anyways).

 

Hyrule warriors is a nice simple one.
And Dark Souls has a good melee combat system.
But both games could improve on it though.

 

*just... slides a copy of METAL GEAR RISING: REVENGEANCE across the table*

 

Devil May Cry 3 had really precise combat controls that allowed for amazing things if one was skilled enough to do them. One unique thing in their controls was how time between buttons was a factor. So for instance if you mashed the attack button 3 times fast, you'd do a certain combo. But, if you pressed it once, waited half a second, then mashed it twice fast, you'd do a different combo.

The game motivated the use of variety in combat to maximize score/money dropped by enemies, doing the same combos/moves multiple times would doc you points. This was used for combat but even in combat, doing something like taunting enemies (which was risky) would net you points towards the style counter because it counts as variety in action. So basically the system has it such that there is a wide array of moves/attacks and you should use all of them all the time to get maximum points. Doing something risky and having good timing would all factor into that.

The combat system was so tight, I wonder if it can be reproduced without having to write its engine from scratch.

 

@Murgilod that sort of system is great, I'd like something similar but probably a bit easier so you can handle swarms of enemies pouncing on you.

@TelescopingCat That looks really interesting, but quite complex haha, there's definitely some things I can pick out of that to use though.
In my game, drinking potions to transform is a risky move mid-combat, but will have a payoff if the transformation is needed to counter the next enemies.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll take a look at the games you've recommended and try out some of the techniques!

If you want to try my game in its current state, you can download it here:

https://serinox.itch.io/devolution

Cheers

 

I love Witcher 3 combat style. Fast dynamic and can be demanding.

Weak / strong attack, using shift key, while holding mouse.
Toggling between skills, during fights, if required.
And mixing techniques and combinations of dodge / sword / skills attacks.
+ there are temporary enhancing potions as well, which should be chosen wisely, when picking type of enemy to fight.

However got few small flows, otherwise is great.

 

The best combat system was in DMC3. I love them the most. Generally, I like also the system based on range, with combos and ultimate on the end.

 

The combat system used in Tales of Graces and Tales of Zestiria is one of my all time favorites.
I dunno if the combat system is similar enough to what you had in mind but I'd still recommend checking it out regardless to help diversify the pool of games you're drawing inspiration from.

Something I think those games do incredibly well is player mobility. You hold block and move the analog stick in a direction to dodge/side-step. When side-stepping you stay focused on your target and move around them in a circle. It feels incredibly fluid and responsive. The way it allows you to narrowly dodge enemy attacks by circling around them and then being able to instantly continue your attack is very gratifying and empowering.

I'd pretty much use dodging and side-stepping all the time in those games. To close in quickly on an enemy or to back off and go on the defensive. The movement felt so empowering.

 

God of War (PS4) has a really good combat system that's heavier and more deliberate than most., if you're looking for varied sources of inspiration. It provides a wide array of options, rewards good positioning, and feels very "close" and personal

 

It seems like a lot of these games have a "lock on" feature to make it easier to target your attacks, do you think this is a necessity?
In my system, you can use WASD to rotate yourself and change directions mid attack. All attacks have a small cleave so you dont need to be perfectly accurate, you just need to be close enough and facing in the general direction.
It's more about timing and crowd control than aiming.
I'll gladly add a targetting system if it adds some value, I just wonder if it's needed since it seems very common.
I know Dark Souls gives you an option, targetted or free swing, maybe that will be the best way to go.

 

I think targeting becomes a necessary depending on how your attacks work. If an attack sweeps and hits anything for like a 45 degree radius in one direction, maybe it's not really necessary. But player directional control cannot be finicky. Or if it is, attacks should be quick and of little consequence to the player. Or if... well, everything just has to work together.
I think @Nlim nailed it with "I prefer setting a goal to achieve and than designing mechanics around doing that." So the question is really about the overall design of the game. How's it supposed to look, feel, and so on, and design your combat based on that, rather than the other way around.

 

@BIGTIMEMASTER I definitely wanted to design the combat for the game, but I'm just not sold on what I have currently. I'm hoping some playtests will provide some insight.
I added in a simple block/counter system and it made it feel 10x better, so drawing inspiration from other games is definitely useful.
I agree that trying to shove another games entire combat system into my game is not going to work.
I think snappy transformations and buffs from potions will be my next focus, which can become a part of combat when fighting different enemy types.

 

I say go with whatever helps you best achieve your design goals. Based on how you described the way your attacks work, it sounds like a lock on system wouldn't be necessary.

 

It’s not a very hardcore game but it certainly has one of the most polished melee combat systems of recent times.


I found the combat in Breath of the Wild feels very good. I like the full control over my movement and camera with the auto targets being bound to a button to allow me to quickly switch between enemies without fondling the camera. Blocking felt natural and impactful and Link had a very wide variety of lunges, rolls, and jumps. I particularly enjoyed waiting for an enemy to attack then backflipping away and coming in with a flurry rush. The most satisfying part was being able to deflect enemies attacks back at them. It definately created a skill gap, early on The Guardians would wreck me but when I finally got back to The castle I could hit them with their own laser every time. It was consistent, not frame perfect but precise, you could time it based off the animation of the guardian itself, which is important. You have to have enough time to see your enemy’s attack coming.

There was also a huge variety of enemies. Guardians would keep their distance and shoot at you, only coming in close for super powerful melee attacks so it forces you to chase it around while keeping cover, mostly deflecting it’s own weapons back at it. Lynyls charged you and preferred to be up close and personal which had you flipping and rolling back and forth to get quick hits in. And regular enemies mobbed you forcing you to be efficient and sustain combat.

I also liked how weapons broke midfight and forced you to think on your feet. It was annoying at first but from a game design perspective it kept the combat from growing stale.

 

I've had some feedback on my game and it seems that the general consensus is that the attacks are too hard to read.
There's not enough feedback for when an attack is going to hit (from player or enemy) so it makes it difficult to dodge or block.
I'm going to look into some more deliberate and readable attack animations, and give better feedback when a hit lands.
Currently the enemy gets staggered if they're a weaker enemy, blood particles play, damage numbers appear, and time slows for a fraction of a second for impact - I'm not sure what else I should add so I'm hoping that better animations and more exaggerated effects will give better feedback on attacks.

This article has some interesting techniques I could try, I'm already using a few of them, but I might try the white flash when the player gets hit, and camera shake for heavy impacts.
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130703/improving_the_combat_impact_of_.php

 

That might be a helpful read for me too. The third character in my game is meant to be the one who's best at combat, but right now she just plays like second character but with a wider area of effect for her attacks. I haven't put enough thought into how to actually make combat as her feel fun and gratifying. But she does have a reflect ability which I think will be nice once I add more enemies that fire projectiles.