Way too many stupid illiterate posts occurring but a possible solution

Yup it is a bit patronising. In real life I generally will steamroll whoever wastes my time. Maybe not punch in the face, but you get the gist

But patronising? no, I think thats just an accident, I'm not like that. I guess it comes across like that when I'm really just not wanting to waste much time.

I'll happily support people providing they use what support I've given to the full. If they're acting stupid out of laziness and can do better then I probably dislike them.

hey man, for a lot of us it's paying the rent. Making games is fun but for a lot of us serious too.


As for free vs pro users, are you forgetting that basic users are also out there? after all the amount isn't important, but the dedication is. Plus I think free users fall into two camps:

1. the entitled - this guy thinks he's entitled to the free version and is doing everyone a favour. I think this person is a complete half wit not worth my time.

2. the poor man - this guy has no money. I think he's equal to me, and entitled to just as much - but if I was him I wouldn't go around shooting my mouth off for more free features, I'd appreciate with respect what I was given.

There's a difference between using the words moron and stupid in context of a post, and actually calling a person stupid or a moron. You will notice I didn't in any way imply any names, people, nor intend offense. I merely used those words to describe behaviour.

Seems to me you are once again just blabbing because its fun. It is fun, right?

It's a sad day when you correctly use words like stupid or moron in a sentence describing behaviour, and you're moderated down to using words like "sillykins" or "slightly confused". That would be PC gone insane.

Why don't I play you at your own game? first you imply the meaning of my words to be offensive, but then you say maybe "english people are in general a bit stupid?". Then you write that you were kidding.

I could, using your example, just offend everyone on the forum directly to their faces by dissing their nationality and then say "ooh only kidding". Troll less please.

 

I just got a simple solution to these problems.

There should be an 'Advanced Scripting' subforum where people who have a certain level of proficiency, and are seeking answers to more involved questions could post.

This will keep the serious questions from being flooded out by noob questions.

 

I've been on the other forum, the invite-only Unity forum. Why don't you just post there if you're frustrated. Haven't you guys gotten invites?

 

Its implicitly done away you have the two forums iphone and android wich non-pros dont post in anyway (for the most part). I guess it would be annoying if you were doing a mac or windows game though.

 

So, the issue is #1 clearly. Remove him, and the community is as good as ever. Segregating the poor man is a terrible way to go about things. I believe both Free and Pro can be equally dedicated as Hippo said, and they can both benefit from the community. I don't see why the serious Free users can't participate with the Pro users.

 

I totally agree with hippocoder, I remember when I first joined. My posts weren't illiterate and utterly not understandable. They were n00by, but still asked good questions.

 

I think the problem is ppl want all the work to be done for them, which is kind of the precident unity sets up (which we all know isnt really true), but it gives new users the false belief that they should be able to just ask and receive without putting effort or thought into what they are doing.

I dont mind helping ppl, but if someone asks how something should be done, they should at least understand some of the basics of what they are doing.

With scripting for example. I like to help ppl with a script thats not working, but im not a fan of just providing outright code. Go. Try. If you fail ask for help, post your codes.

 

Doesn`t make it much better to call a whole fraction morons and stupid instead a single person. And your assumption is still wrong. There are not ways too much "moron" posts.

Which leads us to "the problem". There is none at the community end really, no matter how often you repeat it. The problem is at your end, being not flexible enough to do the jump from a small indie community to a big mainstream community. Even after years you are still whining that it`s not longer like in the good ol days. Those days never come back. Accept it.

It`s always fun to give the right people the slap they deserve, isn`t it? Wasn`t that the initial intention of your post? To do a bit blabbing, plus a little roundhouse kick to blow off a bit steam?

You my friend deserve a big slap

 

You joined 3-4 months ago and not much changed in that short period of time,the forums are actually improving or at least collab section.

 

Is this the thread I go to get help with building an MMO?

/this is a joke, I hardly post anything, but couldn't help it

 

I´ve been over there before. When making a MMO was really impossible for hobbyists and even most professionals. I was one of those nay sayers and keep your hands away warners for a long time too. But i don`t see it as a this big problem anymore. Times have changed.

Making a MMO in general is not the problem. There`s actually a whole software industry that is just about building MMO´s. There`s more than one MMO making software out there. Hero engine for example. Unity is in this club of MMO making software too. And 3D Buzz provides you with the tutorials how to make a MMO. So you have to live with people asking MMO questions here at this forum. The success rate that a hobby MMO really gets finished is of course still just a few blinks above zero. But that`s not the point.

Making a MMO with zero knowledge and asking for the almighty "I have the idea, you make my game for me" help may be a problem. And the corresponding threads may even disturb some impatient and intolerant users here. But it`s the wrong solution to ban those kids from forums or to restrict forum access in general just because those kids haven`t learned yet that making a game is lots and lots of hard work in the first place and a MMO is nothing for hobbyists anyways. Even when you would finish it.

They are kids. Flying to the moon started with a dream. So let them dream. Let the ones that are not willing or able to listen to advice fail. And in a few weeks they are either completely gone, or come back to ask for the basics and think about serious game development.

When you really don`t like such threads, then don`t read them. There is no law that you have to read those threads, nor is there a law that you have to answer them.

 

Perhaps I wasn't thinking that straight when I was typing out my previous post. I'm not any sort of hippie person who just wants to complain for more free stuff, but rather, preferred if people have an avenue to get some serious game development education and training done before they decide to get the whole pro legit program to hit into the indie games industry. I agree that there should be a manner of standards that individuals should practice when they visit a game development forum, but dividing free and pro users is not the way.

It all usually boils down to miscommunication, some botch tries to answer some shallow question and some regular members try to help him as community-friendly as possible. Other botches thinks what that botch does is right and continues on the trend of making more unreadable or ignorant questions, and more regular members work on it to solve their simple questions. By the time this fad is becoming increasely common, the regulars will be fed up by all sorts of questions people ask, and then people started going radical by making up a controversial proposal.

Basically, we need to nail the heads of newcomers the idea of forum ettiquette before they even start to breathe over the forums. However the internet is ever so taken for granted that some dont even try to look into the new questionnaire section in Unity before posting.

 

If the tide of really bad posts isn't stemmed, you scare off good developers. This is an undisputed fact.

 

Its utter nonsense too think a few Unity beginners spamming the forums could in anyway scare off Pro-Developers, Unity is about bringing the toolset to everybody and not something hidden away in some closed game dev sweat shop.

 

Context fail.

Hippocoder didn't mean that knowledgeable developers would drop Unity; he meant that knowledgeable developers would drop the forums.

 

I was aware and understood they might be only dropping the forums over the "white noise"..
But untiy caters to everybody and not just the electoral few that get the support from the forums, Or the devs that are worried that the noise might scare off the larger companies looking to recruit experienced modelers, programmers or even small game development companies.

But frankly some of hippo's remarks have been rather knee-jerk reactions and a few suggestions might have merit but fear doubt and uncertainty isnt in anyway helping.

There are distasteful things we don't like in life guess we just need to learn to tolerate and moderate ourselves with some forbearance.

 

I have to agree with this. It is just quantity that brings all kinds of different posts and age variation. It all leads to quantity and huge number of users.

 

Hey, here is a new idea: Demanding a forum section for people with some character and style and who simply don't come around as some assholes, no matter if they use pro, free or prefer to wear turquoise hats, just in order to keep the growing crowd of whining semi pros out. You know those guys who feel special just because they could afford pro, in the worst case did a couple of mostly irrelevant games no one really cares about but for some strange reason share this itching to tell everybody what they think and others should. Hmm when thinking about it, caging them in their own section would leave much more space for the rest. If Adams would have used Unity he would have put them on the list for a different destination as well. Ahhh the internet, the source of so some much pleasure and pain, no wonder the porn industry was a pioneer. Look on :O)

 

This has of course to be disputed. And it is no fact. Beginner questions are never bad posts. The forum is also and especially made for beginner questions. That`s where using Unity starts.

This thread here is an excellent example for a bad post though. A troll post where you try to divide the community by throwing a issue onto the table that isn`t really an issue, but your personal problem. That you are not really comfortable with selective reading.

When you see yourself as a "good" developer just because of bashing newbies and their problems and questions, and you see the danger that you might get scared away in case the newbies continue to post their questions and problems, then i have to say, better today than tomorrow. And best of luck.

 

You're working with theory. I'm working with fact because I work with and *know* professional AAA developers. Most won't touch unity forums because of the signal/noise ratio. You don't have to like it, its the way it is.

It is you who don't have the facts to hand and you assuming I am the same as everyone else who shoots a lot of old nonsense out as though it's fact. In this case I'm told it's because due to the amount of random noise, there's no real chance they'll get heard with a genuine problem and that it does kind of suck to be in an environment where people want to make a skyrim multiplayer addon in unity, or the next massive FPS MMO. Doesn't make sense, you don't feel as though you're talking to anyone who is experienced.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg though. Some developers of course, will stick around. Other talented people will post less. Even mika mobile said he posts less because of the noise. You can look up his post if you like.

I'm not the only one saying this and observing this. It's trivial for me to up sticks and leave, but it's not my personality to do so. I would rather fix the problem and help if I can. Thats just the way I'm built.

Nobody said they were bad posts. Don't confuse beginner with clueless person posting random nonsense. Hence the desire for orientation for new users. Beginner posts constructed well are always a pleasure to answer.

The forum was made for discussion about unity development and questions from advanced and beginner alike. But you say beginner only?

Well I guess there's no need for half of us to be here if its beginner only then.

 

I have only been here for about a year or so and having read a lot of the old posts (pre-2010), the quality has dropped drastically. I say this, knowing it's more a question of quantity diluting the quality. I do want to stress out that "pure-gold" threads are now a rare sight...

Reading this topic, I see the build up of frustration from all sides;
- The defensive side of free-users wanting same rights as pros.
- The let-down feeling from paying pro-users wanting to improve the community.
- The trolls seeing this as a moral fight between freedom, justice, equality...

At the end of the day, there seem to be an acknowledgement that we all want this community to be of better quality, without castrating new users but also encourage pro-users (who usually invest more time and effort) to be more active. All of this while increasing the awareness of the educational tools and the current library of knowledge (old-threads, wiki, answers.com, ect).

I have an idea, it's more of a compromise...

Pro-users want some filtering, which is understandable... so why not give them a filter (in the form of a sub-forum). However make it read-only for everyone. As a free-user, I would want access to all of that useful knowledge. Mitigating for the fact that the other sub-forums might get a lower quality influx, both related sub-forums (pro free) should be merged together. Bare with me on this one;

- Pro-only threads (this is decided by it's creator) will be visible by everyone but answerable by pro-users only.
- To filter out only-pro threads, go to the corresponding sub-forum. ( or just a button, whatever suits the needs)
- To sum it; threads can be marked "for everyone" or "pro-only" but everyone can see them in the free sub-forum.

Like ALL compromises this won't please either side but it actually tries to answers everyone concerns.

Talking of concerns, please remove of the equation what some consider as "hurting the feelings" of free-users. Such users are probably too immature in any case to be serious about game-development. At the end of the day, they have complete access of the contend and knowledge of all threads. Nothing stops them from sending PM's or referring to the said pro-topics for their own questions.

 

Vimalakirti, the first rule of Unity Elite Forum is that you don't talk about Unity Elite Forum.

 

The second rule of Unity Elite Forum: you do not talk about Unity Elite Forum.

 

omg The signal/noise level drowned out the other thread so much so that i forgot to troll that thread also.

hehehe

 

ok,

1). Where are the "noobs" suposed to go.
I know there is documentation for all this. However, there are those that are really new to anything programming or graphic arts. I believe that there has to be a tolerance to these "noobs" as you call them.Else, you appear to try to seem better that every one else. Remember that there are people that are quite a bit smarter that yourself. Me for instance (minus the spelling of course. We aren't all that perfect.)

2). Calling some one retarded is really bad form.

3). Calling the software vendor that your trying to maintain a licensed contract with "Shovelware" or garbageware is not the brightest thing in the world to do.

4). "(without being nasty)"
This should have really have had commas instead of parenthesis. Please review grade level 4 grammor.

5). "complete and utter"
contrary to popular beliefe, these to words should not go together. One is not an explination of the other. Nor, does it actually heighten the other. It just tries to reach the same literary goal and makes the writer seam as if they dont have a clue to which point their trying to reach.



Sorry i seam so harsh. I know the amount research you must have put into some of these words and/or phrases. I do hope you forgive the fact that I put you back in your place.



thanks,
Sasbian


P.S. Sorry for the double post ..... buttons ... you know?

 

I make it a point to help all new users that ask questions, no matter how simple they are. My only criteria for answering these questions is that the user has tried to figure out the solution themselves (within their abilities) and that they properly articulate their problem (english as their first language or not). It's pretty easy to separate the people that are genuinely interested in learning and people that are simply looking for a "quick fix". As an example here's a recent support question I simply lost interest in because the person didn't want to take the time to flesh out his problem and get proper help:

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/113458-Particles-show-up-in-editor-but-not-buid

But if I feel a new user is invested in trying to find a solution to their problem I will help them to no end (downloading their project, following their bug reports, getting other devs involved, etc). It's all about commitment, and you can judge that pretty easily.

 

@sasbian

I would reply to your post, except the vast amount of spelling errors makes it look like you just finished preschool.

 

did I not cover that INSIDE the post?, lol

 

If you are going to suggest someones grammar is terrible, you should have the spelling to make it look like you know what you are talking about. It looks hilarious when someone corrects you and then makes a ridiculous mistake, or a thousand different minor mistakes like that.

 

See this is how the thread should have started ....

I agree. And i admit that there are even those times that the most simple of things have eluded me becouse for some odd reason I missed or skipped that part of the documentation and went straight for the forum only to feel that i should have known the answer. Every one asks foolish things somethimes. However i DO agree that people should try on their own before asking.

thanks,
Sasbian

 

Also, you shouldn't say you are smarter than anyone, when you can not see them, nor do you even know them personally.

 

ah ....
this is all true . However, It does show that I admit my mistakes . And, Don't "rage out" when I can't find my place with the common people .

 

Isn't that the point I was trying to make?

 

I wasn't raging, nor am I. I was simply pointing out the humor ... Well, maybe a little.

 

The problem is its like saying I will build a time machine by tomorrow. Why the hell should anyone believe it? There is no evidence anywhere.

 

Please reread. I say "also and especially". Not "only". Because usually it`s the beginners who has the most questions.

So you are the only one who has a clue here in this discussion? That explains everything. I´ve talked to mister AAA himself! How could i ever miss that. I just wonder how you manage to create a AAA title with an engine that is not AAA capable yet? A miracle

My friend, you know nothing about me really. My dick is as minimum as big as yours. I am well known out there, and have of course my contacts too. Your opinion is exactly that: just an opinion. And no fact. And playing the dick card is no good argument really. Normally you play this card when run out of arguments.

So what makes the masses of bad posts for you then? The masses that scares you away? The one of 200 posts per day that is really nonsense? The skyrim one made me really laugh, heh. But that`s 0.5%. I cannot really call this masses. You see things that doesn`t exist.

 

Yea ... see this is where I am not that bright . I completely lost you there.

 

There is no evidence to prove what you say is actually true in that case.

 

I could rewrite it, but that would be in contradiction. to the point I was trying to get to.

 

---------
NEW USER
----------
Am I actually attempting to put forth effort?

If yes, goto #1
If no, goto #6

1. Just created account, what should I do?

-First please visit the Documentation (which needs to be updated)
- receive a hugle list of resources, links, and tutorials. Yay!

2.Are you new to Game Devlopment?

If yes, goto #3.
If not, goto #5

3. Where should I start?

User must go through a series of mandatory tutorials before posting.
goto the tutorials provided in step one!

4. I have encountered a problem, what should I do?
If you have already searched the documentation and completely looked through tutorials and Google, goto #5
else, goto the documentation provided in step one!

5. I think I need to ask a question on the Forums!

Before posting, please visit one of these threads with a similar problem.
If you couldn't find it, please goto #6

6. I posted my question

If you came here from step one, please goto #8
else, goto #7

7. Hello everybody!
The kind Unity users will assist you in your problem.

8. You are a Noob.
You don't want to put forth time and effort, and want others to do it for you.
Posts from these users should be ignored.








(please feel free to improve)

 

how about a side bar that says the various different typs of questions and answers. Or, a heading of "common questions" that links to various form answers?

And, I swear I thaught boo was python untill yesterday. (just a little thaught off the subject)

Sorry for the choppy comment. I'm trying to render something and it's taking all my rigs effort, lol.

 

Here's a snapshot for hippocoder, made me laugh snort coffee out my nose...

 

I agree with Hippo, this is a real problem that should be addressed.

I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet or not, but there was a similar Question on UnityAnswers a while ago:
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/18806/what-can-we-do-to-improve-the-quality-of-unityansw.html

Technical solutions like forced tutorials and quizzes do not work. As well as filtering out the noobs they will also discourage many potentially valuable members from joining. Many people will have strong technical knowledge outside of Unity which could be valuable to the community, when forced to go through begginner tutorials may not bother. I know I would not like to be treated that way coming from a professional background.

When I see advertisments for Unity on gaming websites unrelated to development I cringe a little. It is good to expand the field but I feel like we carry the burden of educating these people and these people are diluting this community.

I don't know what the solution is, maybe it's a community attitude thing. Maybe it's up to us to put these people in their place: If they ask a duplicate question: link to it, don't solve it for them. When they ask a stupid question, link to a resource which explains why their question is stupid. There is some of that already but I don't think it is our silver bullet.

 

If I didn't know better I'd think your post is a trolling attempt. I wasn't actually incorrect with anything I said, but you made multiple grammar and spelling mistakes. Since you're kind enough to point out that you're more intelligent than me, I'm sure you're clever enough to use a dictionary.

I've decided to put in bold some of your mistakes, including your incorrect corrections.

You probably made that up. In fact I doubt you understood what was written to begin with.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

 

To everyone making the point that they see Unity advertisements everywhere, let me clear something up for you. We don't advertise on Youtube etc, we advertise to people like you who just happen to visit Youtube... there is a huge difference. You don't stop and wonder why a certain brand follows you to every web site you visit?

Trust me, your grandmother is not seeing Unity ads when she visits Youtube ;-)

 

Instead of taking you to #3 if you press yes, it should have a link to the Game Maker website.

Lol!

 

I spat my tea when I saw that

 

My bad, I apologise.

I stand by my main point that these automated systems for filtering out noobs are pointless. It's like an oppressive dictatorship: it seems like the obvious answer to all problems in a free society. Only down side is it's far worse than all those problems combined.

 

you missed one: grammor