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Warning: Fraud

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dreadt9, May 24, 2012.

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  1. dreadt9

    dreadt9

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  2. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Maybe it is Whyroph come back, he was doing the same thing.
     
  3. dreadt9

    dreadt9

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    And he still keeps sending me different excuses!
     
  4. dreadt9

    dreadt9

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    Its not, I know Whyroph... What did he do?
     
  5. kamisama

    kamisama

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    I know this mightt sound weird but is it a guy pretending to be a modeler/porn star/ nascar mechanic?
     
  6. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    rofl, I know who you are referring to. I was wondering that also. If he posted here maybe the mods could do an ip address check.
     
  7. dreadt9

    dreadt9

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    pretending to be a modeller
     
  8. VeraxOdium

    VeraxOdium

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    What kind of weird crap goes on around here...
     
  9. dreadt9

    dreadt9

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  10. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    lol original scam by Whyroph selling http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/100633-RELASED!!-GUI-Inventory-Quest-Spell-s-HUD-for-RPG which was actually this http://opengameart.org/content/moderna-graphical-interface


    if you google Whyroph you find a new and very active Unity member http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/107885-DOW-Dungeon-of-Whyroph halfway down he is exposed:

     
  11. kamisama

    kamisama

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    Well, if you see anyone claiming to have worked on soul calibur at 15 yrs old, watch out.
     
  12. smitchell

    smitchell

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    I hired this guy many times.

    And he could not have bought models of turbosquid when I hired him. As the models I needed I had provided concept art, So I trust him..

    He told me his son was i'll aswell, But this information I did believe. The country he originates from is known to have mosquito's, He said his son had a illness related to this terrible bug.

    He has provided me with a few models before. All in which he has provided has been legit.
     
  13. 1337_hax_ftw

    1337_hax_ftw

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    I know someone like that...
    and OmniverseProductions.....if you're talking about the same person who attacked my first thread on these forums, I know who you're talking about.

    However, an IP address check won't work. -_-
     
  14. Not_Sure

    Not_Sure

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    Thanks for the warning.

    oh, and on a related note, can you guys tell me what you think of my nascar mechanic porn models?
     
  15. DarkHalo

    DarkHalo

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    With all due respect... I would like to defend myself, to all of this things.. I am not a fraud!!!


    http://darkhalo.carbonmade.com/


    I don't want to go in to any word battles to anyone.
    I am busy and have no time to make any arguments to anyone... I Repeat! I am Not A FRAUD!!!

    Now tell me if those things on my website is a fraud.. I have done many assets for many clients.

    If we had an agreement on how much you guys should pay, you should keep that promise, and not change the amount and lower it, in the middle of the production.
    Artists are not SLAVES!! we also have a family to feed and bills to pay!
     
  16. rab236

    rab236

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    I think we deserve to hear DarkHalo's side of the story. How do you respond to him accusing you of stealing art, and can you prove you didn't? Or did he go back on the deal? It seems awful that a disagreement between artist and employer can ruin the reputation of an artist. Most of the replies to this thread aren't even about this claimed fraud, but about others who have stolen artwork. DarkHalo, what's your side of this?
     
  17. lukasaurus

    lukasaurus

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    The original post is pretty obvious that the model is already freely available. What does DarkHalo say about that?
     
  18. DarkHalo

    DarkHalo

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    All I can say, is dont expect a model worth 500USD if you are only willing to pay 120USD, then at the middle of the production your gonna be cutting the budget to 50USD..

    KitBashing is a practice in this industry, I use basemesh to create some models, and his request was a generic soldier... My plan of attack for his low budget project was use a base model,tweak it to his liking.. sculpt the details.. texture it.. rig it..

    Where can you see a Game character asset worth 50USD.. Midres Poly, with normal map and texture, and with rigs. common man, dont expect much if your putting a very very small budget.
     
  19. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    Question is, do you have permission to take that model and change it as you see fit? Did you make sure you can do this through the license? Show me the line if you looked.
     
  20. DarkHalo

    DarkHalo

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    answer do you need permission for it...
    it is a common practice in the industry, and I am in the industry.. for 5years now.
    I am not owning the model, i am using it as a basemesh to make a new one
     
  21. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    If you're are allowed to edit and resale (Which I doubt) like that then I think Darkhalo is fine.

    For the love of god, don't post threads like this, you've potentially ruined Darkhalos chances of getting any work from the Unity forums now. His work looks consistant in style, so I don't think hes pulling one over anyone. And cutting the budget mid project is lame, don't do that.

    Dark made a douche move doing what he did, but keep your sqwabbles to PM or Email, if you have bad business, then go about your life and forget about it, it happens.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  22. DarkHalo

    DarkHalo

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    and besides its in a free model download website, isnt that to be supposed free to use.
     
  23. KheltonHeadley

    KheltonHeadley

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    But that doesn't mean its ok, if you took my model(All rights reserved) and modified it, It wouldn't be allowed.
     
  24. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Why are you defending a man you doubt is innocent?

    I'll allow others to make the call, but it sounds like what DarkHalo is claiming he created is a derivative work - meaning he does not own the copyright, potentially placing the client at risk.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  25. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    you still have to read the EULA to make sure how you can use it.
     
  26. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Im remaining mutual. The thing I dislike here is that people post about scammers, I just think its a bit S***ty.
     
  27. Dabeh

    Dabeh

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    Let's all treat everyone like criminals just because of a little doubt.
     
  28. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    There is a difference between plagarism and derivative works. It's worth checking out the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work#The_fair_use_defense_in_derivative_work_cases

    It comes down to the 'transformativeness' (i did not make that word up). Whether rigging and animating an existing model would qualify is questionable. DarkHalo claimed that 'Kit bashing' is a common practice in the industry. From my quick research it would appear that kit bashing usually involes taking parts of existing models rather than entire models. As I understand it, kit bashing is normally used for prototyping. I'm not sure if it is acceptable to kit bash when selling models. It would be great to find a resource that explains this in more detail, this is quite interesting.

    :)

    That is incorrect. See the wiki page, derivative works can have their own copyright if it contains some originality of it's own.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  29. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Loving the avatar ;)
     
  30. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    derivative works can themselves be copyrighted, true. But that is only the copyright on the portion changed. You cannot take a model, change it slightly, and claim a new copyright. else we would be awash in models from all MMO's by now.


    http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

    Copyright Protection in Derivative Work
    The copyright in a derivative work covers only the additions, changes, or other new material appearing for the first time in the work. It does not extend to any preexisting material and does not imply a copyright in that material.

    Right to Prepare Derivative Work
    Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to pre- pare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version
    of that work.

    I can also tell you it is not an industry practice to take models and tweak them, and sell them as your own.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  31. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: ... (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

    If you obtain your source material through infringement, then you're in hot water. Only if you have a legitimate source [e.g. permission, fair use, public domain] can you concern yourself with the fact that only the original attributes you add are owned by you - meaning that again the client is in potential risk as major elements of his model may be used freely by others.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  32. Haledire

    Haledire

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    From the "free model website" mentioned in that first post:

    All the models are uploaded by users, thus thefree3dmodels.com is not responsable for their content. For any copyright infringements (if you are the copyright holder) please start a thread in the forum. Furthermore the models are not hosted on thefree3dmodels servers nor ucoz's. This files are licensed under the Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. In short: you are free to distribute and modify the file as long as you attribute it's author(s).
    Copyright thefree3dmodels.com © 2012

    ----------------------

    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

    Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).

    Noncommercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.

    Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.

    --------------------

    Figured I should point this out, as I have had to mention this to someone once before.
     
  33. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    It seems we have some lawyers in the house. We could spend all day combing through legal documents, but the vague nature of the transformativeness requirement means we wont have anything meaningful until we hear from people from this industry to who can talk specifically about what is acceptable practice.
     
  34. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    Does that mean it cannot be sold?
     
  35. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Did you miss the 'Noncommercial' clause? I'll give you a small hint, it's right above the one you quoted.

    -----

    To wrap this up:

    There was some issues between the client and the artist. Oh well - that's life.

    IMHO if the artist promises to pay a little more attention to the legal side of things in the future, then we can close this thread and move on to more important things.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  36. Haledire

    Haledire

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    http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Can_I_combine_two_different_Creative_Commons_licensed_works.3F_Can_I_combine_a_Creative_Commons_licensed_work_with_another_non-CC_licensed_work.3F

    According to the chart there, no other license applies under compatibility - so the exact same license applies.

    I did fail to mention this before, but I am by no means a lawyer. Researching into copyright is something anyone who wishes to distribute their work or participate in collaboration should be making themselves aware of though.
     
  37. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    No I didn't. The non-commercial part refers to the work itself, share-alike relates to derived works. That is why I asked, it is still not clear. You seem to think you're the expert on everything when you are really just combattive and unpleasant.
     
  38. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    Then help everyone by making clear instead of accusing.
     
  39. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    Considering the most of this discussion has been focussed on the law regarding derivative works I thought it would have been obvious.
     
  40. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Much sadness at this opinion.

    The question remains - what is the problem?

    • You have to attribute to the author.
    • You can't make money off of it.
    • You can make share derivatives as long as use these terms.

    From the sounds of it the artist:

    • Did not attribute the work.
    • Attempted to make money off of the work and/or [depending on your interpretation]
    • Attempted to license a derivative under different terms.

    Or in legalese:

    4c
    You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation. ...

    What the the rights in section 3? How about:

    3b
    to create and Reproduce Adaptations...

    And what is an adaptation?

    1a

    "Adaptation" means a work based upon the Work, or upon the Work and other pre-existing works, such as a ... derivative work...

    I may be combative, I may be unpleasant, and I may not have taken a shower this week.... but I think you'll find it pretty clear that license forbids derivatives from being used commercially.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  41. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    never assume. Also, what aren't you understanding about that license? It was put in clear terms.
     
  42. _Petroz

    _Petroz

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    You are right, after reading the full licence the non-commercial clause does transfer to derived works. That was not clear from the condensed version. The part which said "you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one." did not explictly state it could not be for commercial use, but the full license does.
     
  43. DarkHalo

    DarkHalo

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    Hey guys..okay. I did not know about this kitbashing thing is wrong. I apologize. And yes i know.that its my responsility to know about this rules..again to whoever ive hurt. My sincere apologies. But please hear my appeal as well .if we agreed on certain amoun.stick wth it. And keep the budget reasonable for both parties. Again my apologies to evryone.
     
  44. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Good, THREAD LOCK PLZ.
     
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