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Viability of Neverwinter Nights-Style System

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by TonyLi, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    Is there any potential nowadays for a system like Neverwinter Nights in which the primary draw is making and sharing your own single-player or co-op adventures?

    I realize there are still diehards who play NWN1 & 2 (and presumably EE), and Divinity 2 has its dungeon master mode that ties together its modding capability with a live game master feature. And just about every RPG supports modding these days.

    Is there room for success for a game like this? Perhaps in a different setting such as postapocalyptic or sci-fi where, unlike Divinity, it would ship with a small but complete adventure and focus primarily on the user-made content. Or is the concept outdated now that every game is already moddable?
     
    astracat111 and LaneFox like this.
  2. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    I think the idea has kind of just largely shifted to mod support, but there's probably still some space for people who want built-in tools for creating campaigns and stuff. I think the idea of live Game Master probably doesn't have as much appeal.

    I really miss the days of level editors shipping with games. Starcraft and Warcraft dropped with amazing tools for building custom maps, units, etc which led to some wild custom games that were essentially co-op dungeons in their own right. IMO there's still space for that when it's that good. It's a lot more approachable to a lot more people when it's done that way versus when it's done with mod support and is more low level which staves off a lot of creative people who don't want to do it that way.
     
  3. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    I agree. I'm sure a small subset loves it, but the difficulty lining up live players limits its mass appeal.

    Not to mention Dota/League of Legends.

    Sounds like it would involve a lot of risks. The game would have to be outstanding on its own. The editor would need to be powerful but friendlier than your typical mod tools. The distribution network for user content would have to be robust yet easy. And it might be hard to interest people in writing adventures for a setting that's not European medieval fantasy.
     
  4. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    For real, people don't understand when I tell them I used to play Dota in Starcraft :eek:

    Blizzard didn't have any distribution network at first, we basically just streamed the map when you joined the game if you didn't already have it. I think that worked fine. Later they improved Bnet to be able to distribute new maps and stuff to players but it was a bloaty system IMO. I somewhat preferred the old school download maps from website type thing.

    In the modern day, I think it would need to be all integrated for a full solution but I can see smaller games surviving just fine if they had good tools, support and a fun game.
     
    TonyLi likes this.
  5. Serinx

    Serinx

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    I personally love creating my own content for games, especially if it's super simple to implement like Warcraft3 map editor or Age of Mythology. I use to spend hours creating custom maps for my friends and I.

    I think it would be great to create this sort of system. Allowing players to create a map, add in whatever models they want from a huge selection. Have simple properties like color, size, speed, damage for units. and simple trigger boxes/events with a predefined list of useful core events (e.g. spawn unit, spawn effect, display text, kill unit, heal, damage)

    You could also open it up to more customization using something like steam workshop, but it would be great if anyone could create the content for the game, not just developers/modellers.

    It's a massive piece of work when you list out all the things involved, but it would also make it easier to create your own levels to ship with the game.

    You could also turn the basic system into an asset itself ;)
     
  6. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    @Serinx - Both you and @LaneFox cited RTS map editors. Have either of you played much with RPG editors like Neverwinter Nights or RPG Maker? If so, I'm curious what your thoughts are about them. RPGs tend to focus more on quests, story, and dialogue -- although defining new maps, items, and monsters are important, too.
     
  7. Serinx

    Serinx

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    @TonyLi - I haven't, but I did design quests and dialogue in some of my WC3 maps.
    I can imagine it would be the same thing, just a different view and controls.

    I think an easy to use, visual node based quest and dialogue system would be a great way to allow users to write their own stories and watch it unfold inside a game.

    How did Neverwinter Nights or RPG Maker do it?
     
  8. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    I think Neverwinter Nights is the closest parallel, since RPG Maker is closer to a game engine, although that's pushing the definition. If I remember correctly, NWN's editor has several windows, such as a 3D map editor, a heavily text-based outline-style dialogue editor, WinForms-style panels for defining custom items, and a custom scripting language. More modern modding systems use node-based dialogue editors of course rather than the outline style, but to this day there are fans of the outline style's compactness.

    I think what really made it successful was the community, who still contribute content to repositories such as the Neverwinter Vault. Well, perhaps that, plus the comfortably familiar classic Dungeons & Dragons rules and setting, and the fact that no other game offered the same level of modding when NWN came out.
     
  9. Serinx

    Serinx

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    I think the best way to get on top of all the "moddable" games out there now, is to have a way of building a story quickly and easily.
    Nobody has time for anything these days. If you can show a 5 minute realtime video where you build a level, add some quests and dialogue, drop in some monsters, and then play, you'll get a lot of interest.
    You could make a bunch of generic things like "kill x enemies" quest, "talk to person" quest, "defend person" quest, orcs, knights, buildings and forests which are all easily added to your story.
    You could also have all the more complex stuff thrown in at the end or in separate videos for the more dedicated people.
     
    TonyLi likes this.
  10. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    That is probably the single best piece of advice for a concept like this. I agree that people will want to just jump in and tinker, not read a long manual first.

    Maybe it would work best to have this fully integrated with regular gameplay. You switch to god mode, and you can place new walls and NPCs using an interface similar to your regular gameplay interface.
     
    Serinx likes this.
  11. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    That's going old school. I didn't encounter it until it got to WarCraft.

    On the OP, one of the problems you will have is simply generating enough players to play the content. Lets assume you solve the editor tool problem perfectly, and content is easy to create and its entertaining to do so. You will be flooded with more content then your players can realistically play.

    There are a couple ways around this I can see. One is just letting it happen. Implement a rating system so good content rises and poor content sinks. Another way would be to make the content tools more difficult to access. Basically put a technical skill barrier in place. I'm not sure either of these would be good for the player base.

    Another interesting option is to force a play to upload ratio on players. One of the mobile games my wife plays relies on other humans interacting with and rating content the player creates. In order to make this viable, players are forced to consume and rate content from other players. Doing this grants them 'keys' that lets them upload their own content. It would certainly be an interesting direction to explore.
     
    TonyLi likes this.
  12. astracat111

    astracat111

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    Short answer is OF COURSE, I think you've just gotta go out there and show people it works.