Using Other Game Models

Hi there everyone, so I'm working an a project (an online MMORPG) that's will be online multiplayer; I was wondering if I can use other game models in my game?

The reason I want to use other game models is because I do not have time to make models for my game or the animations needed. I already have the game models & animations that I want to use. I will be for sure be changing the textures of them but leaving the shapes alone.

This game I'm working on will be availible for phones, tablets, and pc's and will be free..Could that still get me in trouble even if I'm not making money off of it?
Maybe I will put the remove ads for a dollar thing but that's about it..

What do you think?

 

Are you kidding? you are seriously asking here if its ok to steal someone else's work? and then earning few bucks while at it..

 

really well, whta if I don't do any ads? it's really a project my cousins and i are doing for fun

 

No. If you don't have separate license or permission to use it its a copyright infringement. In your use case it's even bigger offense than pirating the game.

 

Every weekend there is some idiot trying to justify piracy or not doing their own work.
Should be an IQ test to dl Unity sometimes.

 

Whether or not you are making money of your project is irrelevant. Unless you have permission from the owner of the assets you're out of luck.

 

This kind of fries my brain a bit. How can so many people even think this kind of thing might be okay? I mean why... how... lol. Are you in the USA?

 

Walk into a bank and ask them to give you money because you're not good at making it or too lazy to put out the work.
See what kind of answer you get and then refer back to your stupid questions.

 

well sorry guys i just don't have time to make those models myself..
Plus I don't feel like I'm steeling others work they just have a big meaning
to me the game just wouldn't be the same without them..

I guess everyone sees it different but you guys don't have to be mean..

Having work, school, and kids at home doesn't leave you much time so I'll
just be keeping this game to myself.. It's no big deal it was just for me personally

But thank you guys for taking your time to answer my question!

 

Browse the asset store. Plenty of free, legitimate stuff there.

Forgive the ire. Many people have spent huge amounts of time of work that's been stolen. The community in general frowns on piracy pretty harshly.

 

Y'all don't have to be so rough on him...

Piracy is a big no-no. You didn't say where you got the models in your post but if you don't have permission to use them... don't use them.

 

okthankyou guys thread closed!

 

https://www.mixamo.com/
https://charactergenerator.autodesk.com/

 

LOL
ultimately its up to you...

you should know whats right for you and what you plan to do

 

Make up your mind.
You got called out then changed your story to it being a game for personal use.

 

yeah whenever money is involved, you have to follow the law, otherwise, i personally dont get what the big deal is

 

The law is still the law. You can still get prosecuted for IP infringement if you make no money. You can still get fined real money if you make no money. Its still stealing, even if you make no money.

In practical terms IP infringement court cases are only pursued if the individual makes significant money off of the IP, does damage to the brand, or causes significant lost sales. However there is nothing in the law stopping an IP owner taking every person who infringes their rights through court.

 

Would you feel like your work had been stolen if you downloaded something from the App Store or Steam and saw they'd used some of your stuff?

If so, would the fact that it's just a hobby/fun project make you feel any less ripped off?

 

Additionally there are actions they can take outside of a lawsuit. Such as Cease & Desist letters, DMCA Takedowns (both to the infringing individuals/company and the webhost), etc.

 

Most people will never finish their game, I know I probably won't as its just a fun hobby. You can probably use any model you want until you put your game to market, at that point you need to have permission to use everything you use or run the risk of legal action against you. If you have models, then its probably ok to prototype with them and if your idea is good enough and far enough along then you may be able to attract other talent to help you create original work. I'm not an artist, and I'm not far enough along to hire one so I "may" use a nwn/warcraft model or two during my prototyping phase, but if (and its a big if) my game ever gets to market, everything will be original (or asset store).

There are plenty of free resources for prototype art like opengameart.org.

 

This practice is also illegal, through harder to detect and prosecute against. Rest assured, if you accidentally create a successful hit using this method someone will track you down and demand redress for IP violations.

There are many free models on the asset store. There are plenty of community sites. Use one of them to prototype. Forget this crazy idea of using other peoples models without permission, even if its 'only a little bit'.

 

Exactly. So what excuse is there to pinch stuff?

 

Using bits on your computer, legally obtained, with no commercial motive can't really be considered "pinching" stuff. If you think you can find anything and everything you could possibly want for free on the asset store then you are wrong. Even paid assets leave a hole to be filled.

I'm not going to get in an ethical debate here. Nobody is stealing anything by using a few models sitting around on their computer. Now if you try to sell someone else's work, then that is a different story, and an action that I am opposed to.

Be serious though, 99% of the people who download unity will never finish a game. If there are models that let you enjoy your hobby then use them. This isn't a money game for everyone. Some of us are just having fun, don't be so preachy.

 

What debate? It is illegal no matter how you try to justify it otherwise.

 

Pretty sure if falls under the realm of fair use if it is for personal research purposes, so no, it is not illegal.

 

Take a moment to read the EULA that comes with the product. It is very much illegal regardless of how ignorant you are to the license's contents. You would have had to agree to it at some point by click "I accept".

 

Sure, but then a) I don't expect that people will give me their work for free and b) I understand the difference between wanting something and needing it.

Sure I'd love it if Blizzard called me up and said "Hey bro, we heard you're into making games and thought we'd let you use all the stuff made by our multi-million-dollar-a-year, highly-talented team of artists"... but it's not going to happen, and I don't need it to.

I haven't even said anything about what should or should not be considered "pinching". I only asked hypothetical questions. Your interpretation of what I meant by "pinching" comes entirely from your answers to those hypothetical questions.

I haven't preached anything.




To be clear, it's no skin off my nose and I wouldn't be upset to learn that people had coped my stuff into non-commercial, personal-only projects that they're not going to share, ever. But at the same time, if I learned they were doing that I'd suggest they put their time into something more productive, purely because if they weren't "borrowing" my stuff then they'd be free to do what they wanted with the creation they're investing into.

How are you getting the models out? Since they're usually packaged in proprietary binary formats it typically involves some form of reverse engineering.

 

I'd strongly suggest you read up on what constitutes fair use. Appropriating a model to be used on your own project is not fair use.

Fair use is designed to protect reviewers, academics, teachers, reporters and the like. It means that if you post an image from your game as part of a review, you are safe. It means you can do a news report and mention the latest games on the app store. It means you can study the effect of a game on social interactions.

It does not allow you to copy assets out of the game to use for your own game.

 

Like I said, I'm not getting into a debate on ethics. You have your opinions and I have mine. Unless you can site a legal precedent then nobody will prevail. Fair use provides for research and parody as well as the uses you mentioned.

If you're putzing about in your basement learning how to use software and you use some bits laying around on your computer to help you learn, then nobody (but a few internet lawyers) are going to give you a hard time about it. That is my point to the OP, and I stand by that. I do not disagree that profiting from that same activity would be illegal and immoral.

 

I can't find any specific cases related to game art, but here is one pertaining to source code, which in fact was used for profit.

Disassembly of Object Code

Sega v. Accolade, decided by the Ninth Circuit in 1992, makes clear that, in certain instances, the unauthorized disassembly of a computer program's object code in order to derive source code is not a copyright infringement. The Ninth Circuit applied the 'fair use' balancing test to determine that Accolade's use of reverse engineering techniques to produce an 'intermediate copy' of Sega's source code did not constitute copyright infringement. Accolade never distributed the intermediate copy commercially, but instead used it only to extract unprotectable ideas � a sequence of bytes which act as a software key � from Sega's game program. This key was then incorporated into Accolade's games, enabling them to 'unlock' and run on Sega's game platforms. The court cautioned, however, that disassembly involves the making of a literal copy of a program, and it is permissible only when necessary to extract the unprotectable ideas.

 

Seems to me that you are.

Research and parody are not extracting resources from a commercial product to use within your own projects.

Quite likely true but this does not make it legal. If you're willing to extract a product's resources to use in your own project, I have to wonder if you aren't also willing to pirate Unity Pro. Not like it would be hard for @Graham to run a check.

If the game has an active modding community then the format has probably been reverse engineered.

 

Indeed. Nothing wrong with that, though. This is a forum, people are here to discuss things, here is a thing to discuss. And here I go.

The source code itself in that example was not used except maybe in the broadest sense. A key written into the code was used, ie: a piece of hidden content, not any of its instruction code or algorithms. And the text there even specifies that what was extracted and used were explicitly "unprotectable ideas" as far as IP/copyright is concerned. It even goes so far as to say that making copies is not ok in general cases (ie: it was only ok here because it was a required step in accessing data that they were allowed to copy).

 

At this point I'm quoting legal rulings to support my opinion. Do you have any?

It does make it legal. See the rulings. It's legal. I am not willing to pirate unity pro. I am not pirating anything. I own legal licenses to any games in question. You have now sunk to name calling, and as such have illustrated that you are desperately trying to support an argument that you've lost.

I disagree. I believe (and believe the cited court cases support my belief) that that is exactly what research is.

Here is another one.
http://www.finnegan.com/Publication...aspx?pub=ff485faf-e9b1-40e3-ab47-f11a976ff615

 

I haven't stated an opinion, so I've no need to back anything up.

 

Resorted to name calling? No, I merely tagged Graham to alert him to this thread. Whether or not he appears, performs a quick check on your account, and gives a car analogy is entirely his choice.

 

He can do so, I have nothing to hide.

 

There are people in this forum who have major problems with DRM and corporate-craziness and patent ridiculousness, and so on and so forth.

There are people in this forum who champion the idea of lightening up and not being so draconian when it comes to protecting software.

There are people in this forum who are professional developers and who got their start by ripping apart and examining other people games. And sometimes, yes, using art and whatever from those games in their own baby step journey to learning how to do this stuff.

Yet some of these same people are in here having conniptions over someone who wants to learn, and will most likely never complete the game, and will most likely never release it, but they are inspired. They are inspired by another game. That's good! But no... MUST NOT BREAK THE LAW. Even if they did manage to complete the game and somehow release it then the law will surely come down on them. Regardless of how many arguments back and forth happen in this thread.

I don't get why the uproar. I think there are too many people in this community who easily forget what it's like when you first start out on the path of game development. Any development, for that matter. It's hard, and we don't know all the answers, and we learn by trying, and failing, and trying again. Too many people in here have drawn a line in the sand that says, "If you don't do everything according to the LAW and according to the RIGHT WAY TO DO IT then F*** you, we don't want you here."

Who cares? It's one thing to point out that no, you shouldn't use someone else's items in your own game without permission, it's another to continue beating the thread and going ballistic with legal precedents, arguing, back and forth bickering, and just general forum nonsense.

Go ahead and cast the first stone if you want. A lot of good it must be doing some of these new users to get screamed at in the face about how stupid they are.

 

This is completely different. Sega's source code was reverse engineered to extract ideas that you can't protect. The source code that is protected by copyright was never used in a software project so there was no infringement.

The corollary for art would be disassembling a model to get an idea of how it was put together and then go and make your own art. I don't think that appropriating someones model just to put it into your project counts as research.

 

We also learn by asking questions. Which is exactly what the OP did. The uproar is a result of someone giving, and attempting to justify, the opinion that it is perfectly legal to steal IP from a product and use it within a personal project.

Would you prefer that we don't attempt to refute the opinion that it is legal? Keep in mind that the OP did not ask if it were safe to use these resources in a project they never intended to release. They asked if it were legal to release their project with these resources.

We're not screaming at the newcomer who asked the question but at the individual who responded that it was legal.

 

lol. Wow yeah I'm not getting in the middle of this, all i'm going to say is this and only this..

Don't release a product of mine for re-sale and were good LOL.

I came from the time when Modding was the big thing, a lot of these kids these days don't have that opportunity, they have just an engine and need to figure things out. At least modding gave us the chance to mess with pre-made stuff and just learn how it worked.

Which brings the case of the pros and cons.

Modding - Free work, learning, possibly a job with Epic Games lol.
Now - Figure it out, hope and prey you make something out of it. lol.

That's all I'm gonna say in this.

 

I personally have like a "mental problem" (problem as in it restricts me at times) in not wanting to copy other people... even to the point of, i have a great game idea, and then i see some other indie maker made something just slightly similar, so then im not going to do it....
and like, i have all these public domain free use assets, but, i cringe to use them... it feels lame, i want the pride of making it all myself....

.. and yet my stance on the subject is LAWS BE DAMNED!!!! iam an artist!!!
the laws about intellectual property and digital objects is just STUPID!!!!!

i could write a proper treastise on the subject, but not now... LOL i think i have like 10 times on this forum before ><

lol i guess my real reason im sooo against it is that, i used to make mods for tons of games, and ill come across these really awesome mods that people made, and they used other peoples models, and EVERYONE is like "ooohhh duuurrr you used peoples models you piece of crap!!"
BUT the mod is AWESOME and the FUNNEST most amazing thing to happen to the game,
I JUST WANNA HAVE FUN!!! and ALL the downloads are removed from ALL the sites...

and its like WTF!!!! stupid laws!! F YOOOUUUU!!! I JUST WANNA HAVE FUN and you gotta ruin fun because youre a POS lawyer F YOU!!

like... there was the BEST MOD for "faces of war" .. they used models from a mod "forgotten hope" for "battlefield 1942" .. and its like WTF WHO CARES?? i think the models were litterally creddited to a username like "1243523aaaabbbccc" like holy crap you people SUUUCK

and the best zombie game i ever played was for Cod4 "dobby zombies" mod .. and i LOVED IT .. but there was a couple things id wish to rebalance.. and the maker was a TOTAL IDIOT "nooo you cant change it, its my baby!! dont touch my baby!!" ... not like he was making money off it or anything ... >< I JUST WANNA HAVE FUN F YOU!!!!

 

Breakin' the law, breakin' the law...

 

Boom!

 

if all human knowledge, instead of being "owned" by people, would instead be used by anyone who wishes to use it... and intellectual property didnt exist..

world hunger - solved
cancer - cured
homeless - non existant
wars - non existant (except to kill those that value property of knowledge)
humans - on at least 3 planets

NO JOKE!!!

imagine how advanced human technology would be if in the ancient, middle ages, nations didnt hide knowledge

 

I believe @delinx32 was talking about using models from other games in the privacy of one's own home, in the course of learning, and not releasing a game with someone else's model. The two things are not the same, no matter what people want to believe about the law.

 

Your attitude is really bad for a game development related forum. Can you share what have you actually finished instead of bashing other games or talking about stealing models being ok as long as you are having fun?

 

its not really bad attitude... its good to acknowledge when games suck...

 

I bet when they stole the model to use, they intended to change it out before publishing anything. It's way too easy to miss a temporary model and if you've ripped it off, you're in for some legal woes even if the use was "accidental" and you meant to change it out. In any case, I will have to agree with the personal use in the privacy of ones home but not parody. You cannot make a parody of a game using model ripped from the game you wish to parody.

 

Well their game has been in top 50 most played steam games for weeks. Where is your game?

 

Well, except for all the artists who are no longer able to protect their creative works and are making no money. Then the entertainment of the world goes to crap and we're back to wars, hunger, and all those other things you think getting rid of IP will "fix" out of sheer boredom!