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Unity User Research: Looking for feedback on Tiny tools

Discussion in 'Project Tiny' started by rossb_unity, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. rossb_unity

    rossb_unity

    Unity Technologies

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    Hello,
    We are interested in understanding your thoughts and feedback on our latest Tiny tools.

    The study is completed but thank you for the responses in the thread
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  2. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Should the last question be the first question?

    I just think we would have more quention to express our need, instead it just cut to ask for accepting interview
     
  3. veteran_gamer

    veteran_gamer

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    Dec 19, 2019
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    if I can suggest here , I would say :

    alot of Tech company investigate on SPA frameworks ,

    Google just announced Flutter2 , additionally hybrid apps (with web technology ) i.e : PWA are getting more popular
    example : Discord use Electron to call native APIs ,

    Microsoft just announced asp.NET 6 preview which has new tool set ,
    as example blazor , which is the new SPA that use c# instead of JS an as an alternative Electron to build hybrid apps currently it use Electron .net as wrapper ( which use node.js to call native UI) ,

    here's a performance test using webview +blazor :
    https://blog.stevensanderson.com/20...dow-a-cross-platform-webview-for-dotnet-core/

    Microsoft .net Team merged Xamarin & mono platforms under one codebase stack ... investigation native cross platform unified library
    thus a new UI library needed they are working on new Project .net MAUI which's cross platform UI library

    Apple allowing JIT for these frameworks recently ,

    as an additional benefit of asp.net it's possible to call JS from c# ,
    there's a demo using blazor +flutter on YouTube .

    flutter is working on new ecosystem ( native multi platform for desktop& smartphones ) using dart+ Skia renderer

    Microsoft working on performance (AOT compiler) to boost the speed .

    It will make sense if Unity try to collaborate with .NET FOUNDATION TEAM for this new trend
    ( using the unity technology for native mobile application ) + DOT
    there's many free tools to animate vectors + there's many web based game engine
    I know unity has repo for mobile widget as well but it lack many functionality

    it's the best time for UNITY to Unite .net platform imagine beautiful 3D views, vfx , shaders and particle system that runs smoothly on native apps

    --------------------------------------------

    I know this might sounds laughable , since unity tiny can create instant apps & small managed codes
    & node.js can run on single threaded cpu , perhaps it might sounds crazy but .. can we use it to port instant apps to retro assembly platform ? like snes , sega etc..
    I have seen a developer on youtube does that using node,js
     
  4. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Agree. I think Tiny have been so much of reinventing the wheel and cannot deliver what we actually need. I wish it should just be reengineering of unity to use dotnet ecosystem, which can build for every platform including web, from the ground up. Which is totally possible with blazor canvas
     
    veteran_gamer likes this.
  5. Le-Tuan-Son

    Le-Tuan-Son

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    In my opinion, main purpose of project tiny is a lightweight build.
    Please make it without DOTS & ESC system -> This thing is for better runtime performance. Why do you enforce it to project tiny? Not all game need great runtime performance (I'm sure < 5% of games have thousands of moving objects at the same time)
    I prefer traditional coding style which is simple and efficiency.
     
    OceanX000 and atmikes1234 like this.
  6. OsirisNetwork

    OsirisNetwork

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    DOTS -> trash, unusable
     
  7. djsell

    djsell

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    The thing that is making it lightweight is the use of DOTS along with a very small subset of .NET. Unity can already build for web as is. If that's what you want, you can continue to use that.
     
    tonialatalo and GliderGuy like this.
  8. Le-Tuan-Son

    Le-Tuan-Son

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    I don't think so. DOTS and traditional way are just 2 styles of coding. What make the size increase is the subset of .NET and how much library/unity components that it used.
     
  9. vaccacc

    vaccacc

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    I'd like to throw my main piece of feedback in here: please place some focus on multiplayer/networking.
     
  10. OceanX000

    OceanX000

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    Too much learning and migration costs for traditional developers. I hope you will go to the lightweight webgl version to be compatible with more mobile devices
     
  11. Arowx

    Arowx

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    I still think there can be a middle ground between DOTS and OOP that would allow developers to start with DOTS or OOP and more easily transition/mix the two for optimum development speed and optimum game speed.
     
  12. francois85

    francois85

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    What is stopped you from mixing it now?
     
  13. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Every time I've started with DOTS it has changed and with a big Entities change in the works it looks like it still has not settled down.
     
  14. francois85

    francois85

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    Ah ok, I thought you were having trouble mixing the two paradigms. I personally love the framework and hope that one day I can run all Unity has to offer through ECS.
     
  15. GilCat

    GilCat

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    Once you get into the Data Oriented paradigm and really know your data the "big Entities changes" shouldn't make that much of a difference.
     
  16. Arowx

    Arowx

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    You need a solid foundation to build on and DOTS is not there yet, IMHO:
    • It lacks WYSIWYG editor integration.
    • Requires way to much boiler plate code for what are threaded function calls using structs of arrays.
    • Throws out a good abstraction system in OOP taking us back to functional programming.
    I still belive an OOP/DOTS approach could allow a more Object centric DOTS approach that could let programmers work with groups of systems as methods for Objects and more efficiently bridge the gap between OOP and DOTS allowing for quicker and easier migration and translation between both styles.

    Or it's all just tokens and syntax until you get to machine code, so use a style of syntax and tokenisation that works best for programmers.

    An ideal test would be take an OOP game in Unity and convert it to DOTS note how every function call will become a system mulitplying the boiler plate code needed to do the same job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
    rossb_unity likes this.
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