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[UPDATED] ICECreatureControl v1.4.0 - creature AI for enemies, animals, monsters, zombies ...

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by icetec, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. TonanBora

    TonanBora

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    Honestly, I think the coup de grace came a while ago, when he drop communications.
    Had he been more active before the accident (regular updates, and activity on the forums), people would be much more willing to overlook the set back, and be patient.
     
    Tethys, lawsochi and RendCycle like this.
  2. secondsight_

    secondsight_

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    Mar 2, 2014
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    Hi there,
    I bought ICE a while ago and just got started. Checked the documentation and tutorials. But for a small project I need something very simple but I don´t know how to do that.
    I just want some animals to roam around freely without any major AI behavior. They should walk a few meters, idle a few second and then turn and move in another direction.

    Is this possible without any waypoints ? Currently I only have the "home" waypoint after using the wizard on one animal.

    Thanks !
     
  3. julianr

    julianr

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    yes, you can create a radius for them to walk or run around using the basic behaviors and rules to specify when to idle. One of the tutorials or example projects should show how to do this.
     
    TonanBora likes this.
  4. AxelBoltok

    AxelBoltok

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    Hello, it happened to me the same, i was able to fix it a few days ago, was really hard since there was no actual way to test it because it was really random and happen in a very low rate, the problem is that you need to make your rigibodys kinematic, even the childs of the gameobjects, i had a lot of npcs when i realize about the problem so the best way to avoid this without entering in all of the npcs and changing all the rigibodies even their childs was creating a script and adding it to every npc, was this coded in C#:
    Code (CSharp):
    1. void Awake ()
    2.     {
    3.         Rigidbody[] bodies = gameObject.GetComponentsInChildren<Rigidbody>();
    4.         for (int i = 0; i < bodies.Length; i++)
    5.         {
    6.             bodies[i].isKinematic = true;
    7.         }
    8.     }
    that fixed the issue of invisible enemies and getting everywhere in a crazy direction, hope it helps you!
     
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  5. Alex3333

    Alex3333

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    Dec 29, 2014
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    What is the name of this script?
     
  6. crimsonmortis

    crimsonmortis

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    Feb 21, 2016
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    I do hope he returns (health issues I thought) or he allows someone to maintain this asset would love to see it updated. One of my favorites.
     
    TonanBora and C_p_H like this.
  7. GameDon

    GameDon

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    Dec 16, 2012
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    Is this asset worth using in unity 2018 or has the Dev abandoned it?
     
  8. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    Pit has really let us down. At least he could have the decency to tell us formally that it has been abandoned. It's really difficult to understand because he was so enthusiastic about the project. I bought it at the very beginning and have used it in every project. As a hobbyist, he's not just let himself down but he's made sure that I won't buy another asset. Not so much because of the money but because of the time spent learning the package.
     
    RendCycle likes this.
  9. RendCycle

    RendCycle

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    To those interested on a quick research I've done, the closest to how ICE Creature Control works, I guess, is Polarith. But it is still new and its features are still not that comprehensive compared to ICE. Currently, I think its AI only supports NavMesh but it has plans to support 3D context steering in the future. It's price is also slightly more than double to ICE.
     

    Attached Files:

    jonfinlay likes this.
  10. TonanBora

    TonanBora

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    I would LOVE it if this become open source. Then I could release the modifications I have made to it.
    Just got done adding in the ability to give names to behavior rules, so that you can more easily tell what the different rules in a behavior are meant to do. :)
    Naming Behaviour Rules.jpg
     
  11. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    I've just sent Unity a refund request even though I bought it in September 2015. I've bought so many animals that I now can't even animate properly. The mistake is clear: Pit made the software far too complicated and now has just given up on it.

    Everything worked so well in the first couple of versions. Unity has bought a number of packages including the excellent CineMachine, but I doubt they'll buy Ice due to the sheer complexity.

    Tonan has done a great job, but few of us are as skilled as him nor have the time. Pit assured me before buying I wouldn't need any programming knowledge and at first I didn't, but now I can't even upgrade to 2018.

    I wrote a very critical email to Unity about the way it has handled Ice, the latest review is entitled "Abandonware". Pit doesn't seem to give a S*** about his customers, especially those who have stuck with him since the very beginning.

    Sorry to sound so critical but I really felt Pit has let us down. At least he could have left it in a usable state or simplified it down a bit so it could at least cover the basics of AI.
     
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  12. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    It appears to be abandoned. I'll confirm this once Unity gets back to me. Just don't waste $45. As for alternatives, I'm still waiting for a response from the developer of GameFlow regarding AI. It's an excellent multipurpose system that I often used alongside Ice, but I'm just not sure how well the AI performs by itself. AI is definitely on the road map and the developer is clearly a competent programmer, so we'll just need to wait and see.
     
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  13. RendCycle

    RendCycle

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    If you ever get a refund, please let me know as I will also ask for it. I haven't even gotten the chance to use this before it got abandoned. :( Thanks! Tried reaching out to his e-mail address support@icecreaturecontrol.com before but received no reply. Even in the official website's forum, registration does not seem to work. Anyhow, it looks like the domain name's expiration date (registrar's sponsorship) is on 2018-08-31. Maybe what will happen after that date will provide us a clue whether this asset will still go on or not...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  14. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    I was actually going to delete that post before you responded. Pit was so committed and so friendly and it's a complete mystery as to what's happened.

    But regarding the refund, while I've got no chance of getting one you definitely do have. If the sent the developer an email and he hasn't responded then you'll be entitled to one. I'm quite sure judging from the reviews that a lot of people have requested one and Ice is on the verge of being deprecated. Just send an email to the address found in your invoice email along with your order number, you probably won't even need to say you've tried to contact him.
     
  15. RendCycle

    RendCycle

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    Reading the previous posts, he announced having encountered an accident last January 2018. I can understand that if he could just post a brief update here from time to time. As I remember, he was unable to announce any update after that message above... but was active elsewhere. Anyhow, I might not have a chance to also get a refund because I've bought this asset a long time ago and only gotten the chance to try it out now as I have more time to dedicate to Unity (but found out ICC is not working). This seems to be a nice asset if only it can run without hiccups in Unity 2018.1+. I just hope he returns and has fully rested and ready to still tackle ICC else hopefully he makes this as open source and someone can share a working version. Offering a refund to those who was not able to actually utilize this would be much appreciated as well (I guess no need to if offered as open source).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  16. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    I got two refunds processed after a year, one being a vehicle physics package that had been abandoned the other Emerald AI. I'd spoken to each developer individually through PM and they put in a request to Unity and I was reimbursed In one case the credit card I'd used to pay had been replaced and the money was transferred directly to my PayPal account.

    Unity3D does do refunds provided that you don't abuse the system. Now, if Pit's last message was six months ago then that's some time. And almost every update is released with hiccups, so I expect the 2018 version to be same.

    I think it depends on whether you are using Unity as a hobby or in a professional capacity. I always compare Gaia and Terrain Composer 2 like this. The former is always bug free and you'll literally guaranteed beautiful landscape in a few clicks, the latter requires some effort but in my opinion the landscapes can be breath-taking and original.

    If I used Unity to pay my bills I'd go with Gaia, essentially cloned terrains that lack originality but can be done so quickly and painlessly. Ice is more like Terrain Composer 2, you can do some absolutely fantastic things but it all takes work, work which ultimately the player won't notice. I'd actually watched a YouTube review of one my games and what was interesting that it took me a solid week perfecting and fine-tuning a swamp and river to include fish and swamp grasses and special animations that the animals would do when near the water, only for the reviewer to completely avoid the swamp!

    I really can't say for sure, but I think Emerald is a safer bet. What the majority of players want is full interaction between animals, whether these interactions are random and dynamic or not won't really make any difference to the average player.
     
  17. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    Also four tips about Ice:

    Firstly the animals work better on relatively flat surfaces; while bumps and crannies look great the animals behave erratically when walking across them.

    Secondly, it does appear to work ok in the latest version of Unity 2017, which was made available last week.

    Thirdly, the larger the animal or monster the better Ice works, insects require very low and precise selection ranges, quite often below one. I get the impression that Pit never really tested it with small insects. That being said, mammals act erratically as mentioned initially if there are two many bumps. The scanning angle method is resource intensive.

    Finally, the more animals you have going the intensive performance wise Ice is, often matching or exceeding camera rendering.
     
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  18. RendCycle

    RendCycle

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    What I mean by "hiccups" is, ICC frequently crashes Unity 2018.1+ and hopefully (if there will be a new version) there are no Console Warnings & Errors visible upon installation. I tried to use it before in my project but just couldn't because of these issues. I've tried Terrain Composer 2 and I'm still ok with it. Anyway, to date, I still haven't found a good AI solution that support not only Navmesh but really has 3D context steering or similar. Emerald AI, last time I checked, only supports Navmesh I think.

    Thanks for all of these information! :)
     
    jonfinlay likes this.
  19. TonanBora

    TonanBora

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    Yeah, sadly... I feel similar. He dropped the ball, he should have kept communicating and/or made ICE in such a way that Updates did not require complete and overwhelming overhauls of the entire system, but rather, smaller, incremental changes. The code base is quite a pain to navigate around, and is a bit messy, so I can easily see him getting overwhelmed with the whole project, even if it was his own! :eek:

    A simplified interface for new users would have been a very good addition, and keep the more complex one for those who want to dig in more.
     
    jonfinlay likes this.
  20. SickaGamer

    SickaGamer

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    I am sad to see this go as I too have purchased it. I was hopeful this would be my new AI system but I opted for Emerald instead.
     
  21. AndyNeoman

    AndyNeoman

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    Sep 28, 2014
    Posts:
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    I'm still using but its a real shame that it has been left like this.

    I may well strip it down and use it as a basis for creating my own in the future, I will check the license but I think it is acceptable use. Anyone know for sure either way?
     
  22. wendymorrison

    wendymorrison

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    Jan 6, 2014
    Posts:
    226
    This was the best AI solution around and I had fun using it, But I think maybe someone should make an AI solution like this but only make it better. By better I do mean (Support). PIT has been out of action for quite some time so, is he actually alive?
    I have found a lot of great assets have gone.
     
  23. imump

    imump

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    He is alive, if you search around you will find he is active elsewhere. He also last visited the forums, June 19, 2018, according to his Profile.
     
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  24. julianr

    julianr

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    Jun 5, 2014
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    It's such a shame, this is one of the most flexible AI systems out there, it needs a little work, update to support 2018, bugs fixed and support in the forum. Pit can recover from this, just come back and support us before it vanishes from the store!
     
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  25. TonanBora

    TonanBora

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    Yes PLEASE @icetec. :)
    It would be a shame for all your hard work to just.... vanish. :-/
     
    RendCycle likes this.
  26. TonanBora

    TonanBora

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    I hope to do this someday, but that day is not going to come anytime soon yet, I have too much on my plate as is. :confused:
     
  27. lawsochi

    lawsochi

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    Oct 24, 2016
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    Hi, the first thing I want to say is- Hey, Pit, I hope you are doing well. I wish you good luck, health and all the best.
    But, secondly, I considered the possibility of buying this asset a year and a half ago, then it was one of the best solutions in the store, but I was concerned that the developer does not pay enough attention to support, lessons and integration ...
    Some supporters of this asset criticized my position, and this, in my opinion, contributed to the opinion of the developer that it is possible to make a good product, throw it into the market and not support it, as it takes a lot of time and hinders further development.
    Unfortunately, I was right, and having bought another product, having spent a lot of time on development, I achieved not bad results for myself thanks to the extensive support of the developer, the community, the mass of lessons and simple integration with all popular assets in the store. It took a long time, but it works and I hope it will work in all future versions of Unity.
    Therefore, I want to say that it is not enough to write good code, it is necessary to give the user a good experience of application, worthy information, and training, training and once again, training. I hope, on the basis of this asset, once an excellent product will grow, but for this it is necessary to change the attitude of the developer to his business.
    With respect and hope for the best, Michael
     
  28. monte_carlo

    monte_carlo

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    Mar 26, 2015
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    Hi all,
    I know this asset is essentially abandoned but was wondering if runtime preset loading was ever implemented ? it was talked about but I couldn't find any more info ?

    Thanks
    M
     
  29. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    Would that be Behavior Designer, Emerald or something else? ;) I also need to find and stick to the best ICE alternative.

    In the meantime, I think Pit should do one of these things:
    - drastically cut the price to like $15 and add a disclaimer that you're on your own with ICE 1.4
    - deprecate the asset and/or make it open source
    - get his act together and come back to do 1.5
     
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  30. Firlefanz73

    Firlefanz73

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    Maybe he should at least inform all the purchasers or interested deveopers what's going on and if there are any plans for updates or whatever in future? I still find the lack of Information the biggest Problem (and still find it unusable even with Unity 2017)...
     
  31. AndyNeoman

    AndyNeoman

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    What a shame, I've just been on to bring ice into my new project and it's depreciated on the asset store. Time to look to something else now. Any suggestions?
     
    GameDon likes this.
  32. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    This is beyond sad. End of an era really. Was it Pit who took it down?
     
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  33. AndyNeoman

    AndyNeoman

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    No idea, just saw the dreaded red text of depreciated when i went to download. I think i'm going to have to move to emerald AI, ive seen it works with quest manager so maybe between the two I can get the gameplay mechanic I am going for.
     
  34. paulojsam

    paulojsam

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    where can i ask for a refund
     
  35. SickaGamer

    SickaGamer

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    You won't get one. I have already tried and if you purchased it over 6 months ago like me, you are SOL.
     
  36. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    Did a little research just now, and I think we can achieve high quality AI (on par with ICE 1.4) with the following actively maintained assets:
    -- ORK Framework + Makinom Framework (the author of both recommends both assets, and provides an ORK+Makinom bridge script)
    -- Behavior Designer (its pricey add-ons are a must, and add up to a much more expensive package than ICE was)
    -- Playmaker with or without the EasyAI add-on (the classic solution for AI)
    -- Bolt (like Playmaker, it's a bit clunky for pure AI, but in theory you can surpass with it anything ICE would throw at you)
    -- fAutonomy (free open beta, some say it's the next big thing in Unity AI, I honestly don't know)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  37. rasto61

    rasto61

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    Depends on what you are looking for. I saw https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/?stay#!/content/122284 recently browsing through the asset store and it seems to provide UI similar to ICE, and uses both behavior trees and fsms and looked kind of interesting. But I haven't looked more closely into it as I have found the final solution for me with nodecanvas https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/?stay#!/content/14914 It has both behavior trees and fsms, but you build them through a node graph, not the inspector like in raptor. The implementation of fsms is easily the best I have seen in unity. The actions in each state and the transitions from each state are visually clear with the first look at the graph unlike playmaker for example. In behavior trees you can stack actions on nodes, so the trees can be so much simpler and cleaner than with behavior designer. There is a reason that some of the most known games being made or made with unity use nodecanvas. Oh, and the support is 10*
     
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  38. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    Did you also try Bolt? It seems to be updated more frequently and generates more buzz than NodeCanvas. Not trying to bash it of course, just trying to find my permanent AI solution as well.
     
  39. rasto61

    rasto61

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    I actually got nodecanvas when I was looking at the Bolt comparison page just out of interest :D I used behavior designer until then but I was really missing dynamic variables, and working with lists of items was not ideal, and the comparison page laid it out nicely :D Bolt presented itself more as a visual scripting tool with its flow graph and also lacked BTs so didn't really consider that. But after I got nodecanvas I was more than happy with it.
    I wouldn't really worry about the frequency of update with nodecanvas, I'd say it rather shows its a more mature product. But when you contact support he usually responds quite fast and is helpful.
     
  40. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    I get it, though 5 months without update seems a bit scary to me. ;) At least I'd like to make sure it works with 2018.2 before buying it.
    So you're saying that Bolt is kinda lacklustre compared to NodeCanvas?
     
  41. Teila

    Teila

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    Sad that such a wonderful asset was deprecated. I hope wherever Pit is that he is doing well. We have used ICE extensively in our games and with Tonanbora's skills, he has extended it to use in ways I never imagined. Without ICE, we probably would never have tried some of the AI stuff we have created.
     
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  42. rasto61

    rasto61

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    I just think the FSMs are implemented very well, states contain state logic and transitions contain transition logic. I really don't like how its done in playmaker for example. And then they are also very readable. It might be just me and its probably preferential but I find this:
    Screenshot (122).png

    way easier to see whats going on than in here:
    Screenshot (124).png

    and the difference only increases as the number of states and actions increase.

    Im using 2017.4 but I tried an import into 2018.2 and there were no errors.
     
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  43. recon0303

    recon0303

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    Another one bites the dust. I wish Pit all the best:)
     
    StevenPicard likes this.
  44. StevenPicard

    StevenPicard

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    I have Bolt and I think it has a lot of great qualities but it is not highly perfoment on its own just yet. I would recommend manually coding anything that needs high performance and use that code in conjunction with Bolt. When the C# code generation is added then it will be a 10 star asset for sure. I am not saying it's super slow but for anything complex it most likely would be.

    At this point I am going with Raptor AI and Bolt: https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/ai/multi-purpose-ai-engine-122284. Because of how nicely Bolt plays with other assets I believe I will be able to tie those two in together quite easily.
     
  45. Gregorik

    Gregorik

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    @StevenPicard and what's your take on NodeCanvas (and FlowCanvas)?
     
  46. PiterQ70

    PiterQ70

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    Maybe someday he will return with new great asset :)
     
  47. StevenPicard

    StevenPicard

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    I think they look good but I haven't tried them. I have purchased several AI components the worst being AI Designer Pro. It looked good but needs a lot of love and care. I really wanted ICE to work since it did not rely on Navmesh since my landscapes are procedurally generated. It did work great for some things but was Janky for others. I guess I don't have the patience or determination TonanBora has (who is highly skilled with ICE.) My hats off to him.

    I'm going to purchase Raptor this weekend and look at plugging in some A* path finding code I have. If that goes well I won't have to purchase another asset for that. I will let you all know what I think about Raptor AI after I've played with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
    Teila likes this.
  48. PiterQ70

    PiterQ70

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    I have tried ice on 2018.2 and work. Couple errors about AudioClip() but easy to fix.
     
  49. AndyNeoman

    AndyNeoman

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    Yeah it still works. But support going forward has obviously gone. It is a great basis to develop from but there are issues and slow downs and for me I use assets to speed up development and I expect them to improve over time and unity updates to take advantage of new features. The idea that Emerald for example is already faster and still actively developed makes me want to make the switch now instead of digging into ICE and fixing it's issues myself.

    If Pit didn't think it was worthwhile to develop or sell/release to git then it make me wonder whether they're bigger obstacles to performance than I know.
     
  50. PiterQ70

    PiterQ70

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    Yes it's true. Asset without support and with some issues is worthless.