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Unreal Engine 4

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by alt.tszyu, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    You are overestimating loyalty of consumers when it comes down to their pocketbooks. Consumers will go anywhere where they can get the same thing for cheaper. Ex: Walmart - cheap imports from overseas.
     
  2. BuildABurgerBurg

    BuildABurgerBurg

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  3. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    When you open the editor...
     
  4. F.Salka

    F.Salka

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    Inside the editor itself....there is no web based version of it yet as far as i know
     
  5. Pix10

    Pix10

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    Well it's not a light undertaking, so they've obviously done their homework. Epic have been around a long time, and they have performance metrics from licensing out for millions or for scraps, so clearly they believe this makes good business sense.

    One thing is for sure, it puts the cat among the pigeons - as invested as I am in Unity, it's very, very hard to ignore.
     
  6. kryptopath2

    kryptopath2

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    sad..
     
  7. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    UT’s response was to announce Unity 5 few hours before this announcement. Instead of pleasing the community, they’ve some pre-orderers mad for doing that. I need to keep developing on Unity for a while so I’m not mad at all, but oh boy; I feel the rage is around...
    But UT must to drop prices soon or they are doomed.
     
  8. TheGraficalOne

    TheGraficalOne

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    I'm confused. With Unreal's new business model dose this mean they've gotten rid of UDK, free and now you only need to pay $19 for the entire Unreal?

    If so, that is some clever strategy.
     
  9. BuildABurgerBurg

    BuildABurgerBurg

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    oh thanks.. I'm still downloading it and all the videos :)
     
  10. OCASM

    OCASM

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    Isn't UE4 DX11 only? There's still plenty of people with DX9-level hardware out there.
     
  11. F.Salka

    F.Salka

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    The only way for Unity to compete with this is to release the PRO version with all the addons for free, ABSOLUTELY FREE, then take a 5 - 7% revenue cut of each published game , of course while keeping the option to buy a full commercial license if the developer doesn't want a revenue cut for his sales (not to mention the asset store revenue also), otherwise, Unity will be pretty much screwed....and i hope i'm wrong.
     
  12. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    No.
     
  13. SunnySunshine

    SunnySunshine

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    It's great Unity is getting competition. Unreal Engine 4 is a strong competitor. I'm loving it so far. The blueprints system is extremely impressive and powerful.
     
  14. Aabel

    Aabel

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  15. Pix10

    Pix10

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    I thought UE4 Enlighten required a license (with Lightmass as default fallback), is this not so? Or was Enlighten included for the beta perhaps?
     
  16. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    I assume it can fall back to DX9 for builds like Unity. Because mobiles are not DX11 and it can deploy to them.
     
  17. Astfgl

    Astfgl

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    Wow, Unity HAS to respond to this in kind and FAST, otherwise it's going to be game over. $75 per month x the number of platforms sounds kind of ridiculous now. To be honest, I always thought Unity was a little too expensive for its intended indie audience, and Unreal is really driving home that point right now. I can see this move really shaking up the marketplace in the coming year or so.
     
  18. Aabel

    Aabel

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    That would be a good start, but even that would be a ways off from being able to compete with UE4 on even footing.
     
  19. Pix10

    Pix10

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    And the fact it runs on OS X kind of rules out DX11 only ;)
     
  20. ccsander

    ccsander

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    So I have had Unity 4 Pro since it came out, and yesterday I immediately paid the $600 for the Unity 5 update after seeing the awesomeness that is coming with that. I've been a really big fan of Unity. I wrote my own custom solutions where Unity was lacking, but Unity and the asset store gave me a huge boost to get my projects to where they are today.

    Today I'm pretty stunned by this UE4 announcement, but this isn't going to stop my current development on Unity. I feel like a pro in Unity now, and I've invested a ton of time learning how to do nearly everything in Unity. I can't justify taking 3-6 months to become a UE4 expert at the expense of my projects. I think there will be many other developers in the same boat as me.

    But one thing this UE4 announcement has done. I'll be signing up for UE4 this week (probably tomorrow after I sleep on it), and I'll evaluate and learn UE4 on the side as time allows. I can now foresee a possibility of switching over at some point down the road if the benefits outweigh the cost of porting my Unity stuff over. Yesterday that wasn't anywhere close to being on my mind.

    UE4 - you just got your foot in the door.
    Unity - you better step up and respond with a new pricing scheme or you are going to lose a lot of developers.
     
  21. F.Salka

    F.Salka

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    It's completely unclear if the this version of Unreal does have enlighten pre-built , the information on their website is pretty scarce, i hope someone can clarify things out.
     
  22. kryptopath2

    kryptopath2

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    i think thats my road also. i will sign-up for ue4 tomorrow and working parallel with both, depending on the project. have to learn a lot in ue4, but it will be a good idea to have options.
     
  23. Pix10

    Pix10

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    True, from the horse's mouth is best, but unless Geomerics webmaster is having the day off...

    Enlighten is available as a stand-alone SDK, or integrated into the Unreal Engine 3 and 4. To evaluate the UE4 integration you need to be an Epic-approved Unreal developer.
     
  24. aiab_animech

    aiab_animech

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    Don't worry guys, Unity will soon have the new awesome GUI system that has the following amazing features:
    * anchors
    * the ability to define borders in textures

    Unity is good to go. ;)
     
  25. SememeS

    SememeS

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  26. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    I feel kinda like this is about Epic now: “the giant has rized” :D


     
  27. NoBullIntentions_P

    NoBullIntentions_P

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    The only thing which would persuade me to switch would be if Epic's attitude to bugs and support was better than Unity's. I mean granted it would be hard to be worse, but for all I know, Epic are just as obsessed with flashy new features which don't actually work or aren't actually finished as Unity are.
     
  28. Deleted User

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    Epic are quicker to get to issues and they generally sort out the right issues.. E.g. 64-bit editor came BEFORE DX11 integration..
     
  29. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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  30. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    Yeah the lack of 64-bit editor and running out of memory while building was an issue I ran into years ago with Unity. Too bad they didnt implement it back in the 3.x days.
     
  31. kaiyum

    kaiyum

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    What is the point of constant subscription, apart from constant engine update?

    For example, lets take this case: I brought a snapshot. I think it is ok for me, for this particular project. So why should I subscribe for another month. As I downloaded previously brought snapshot, I will just continue using it and publish product with that version. If I see some performance(or other necessary improvements which do no break development cycle) improvement then I will just subscribe again to get updated to latest snapshot and publish.

    After some thoughts(and of course a shower, uh this happens when I got myself severely astonished :D)I guess, these things are epic's benefit:
    1. No matter you try or seriously get involved, you must pay $19. This is per developer( not per title). So more developer, more money.
    2. 5% profit from the start. It was 25%(previously with udk), not from the start, but from a particular revenue point(50K probably??). With this new technology, obviously "games made with UE4" will have greater consumer demand, because of greater graphics. Thus greater sales or download, thus greater revenue. Normally a good mobile app's sales/dl count is inherently high, with UE4 it will be higher.
    3. You want some upgrade, then you will have to pay another 19 to get latest snapshot.

    Now previously, udk was $99 already. Though they had a heavy(assumed) priced source license, I guess, sales was not so good from source license. So from $99 to $19? Not quite exactly, but minimum of $19. By lowering the price, they will drag more developer towards them. Previously, it was just not possible, especially lacking of android license which is a big mobile market.

    Previously profit sharing was 25%, after a threshold. Why would it become 5% from the start?
    I think, 25% is way too much for many developer. With 5%, very few people will actually worry about it. I have seen people complaining about epic's royalty. Epic successfully sealed it.

    Whatever you want to do(play around, try, develop etc), you have to pay at least 19 with your debit/credit card. This actually makes the system close. So the people(real unique people as credit/debit card is involved) who are actually serious about game development, will go with UE4. QA will be good. This is good for epic as engine reputation. Good for developer as good quality from capable developers and less clones(don't you think hippo ;))

    We all know the benefit of asset store of unity. Epic has just literally learned a lesson from unity :D

    So why not making UE4 like unity, I mean without source codes. What is the point of giving away source codes? There comes my fear, you gotta be a capable developer to utilize their engine. I fear that you might need to go messy/deep within UE. For a C++ guru, this is awesome. But for a developer who is familiar with "click a button, attach a script, fields/methods, create objects of classes/use'em, no need to clean up for memory leak n other stuffs", this is probably not a good idea. Already UE4 experienced people, please clear this confusion. Also making source accessible to all, would improve their engine too, as many will contribute surely.

    So for source, these are their benefits:
    1. Something is wrong? Well we are trying to fix it. Meanwhile source is within all of your grip, why not try n fix by yourself?
    2. Engine improvement by community.
    3. Less people need to be hired for engine management.

    Downside of source release:
    1. No longer the big money, from big game studio for source license.

    I guess, with indies, trends are changing. Thank you unity, for working like a catalyst in this changing process.

    [Engine Suggestion Time]
    It must be funny that I am giving suggestion to big bosses. Anyway, take it as user's feedback:

    CryTek: In most vulnerable position. Need to rethink, about license specially.
    Unity: I think they need to think about licensing a bit more. Engine feature way too good. Just the licensing process and oh,Mono. If UE4 like source license is not economically feasible, please do something about mono runtime.

    Epic:
    These are the challenges:
    1. Prove to be new comer friendly, which means a separator between advance and beginner scheme. Many fear C++ complexity, such as pointer.
    2. Prove to be stable.
     
  32. Venged

    Venged

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    Wow UE4 is just $250 for the the year with the subscription. Looks like they have free examples of all the common genre including Third Person Shooter.

    This is a hard deal to beat!
     
  33. Sickuhtrix

    Sickuhtrix

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    I love Unity beyond belief.....

    But I'm switching to UE4, it's really just a no brainer which is so sad because of how much I enjoy Unity...
     
  34. nighteyes13

    nighteyes13

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    We will be finishing are current project in unity and then switch over to Unreal.

    I was seriously annoyed when a month and a half after paying out for iOS basic seats they made it free and we have consistently come across the limitations of Unity Basic during development of the game. We have also had to fork out alot on the asset store editor extensions just to make a more complete editor package….

    Why would I ever pay $3000 dollars per SEAT! When for just $19 a month and 5% gross I can have a industry leading package….

    Unity really needs to rethink its business model ASAP! It won't take long for it serious customers to move across to unreal.
     
  35. schmosef

    schmosef

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    Wow, Epic just did to Unity what Unity did to GarageGames.

    I'm kind of new to Unity but I really like it. Bought my Pro subscription yesterday so I'm committed to $225/month for the next year.

    Epic's pricing would be hard to overlook for anyone not already established with Unity or some other engine.

    Unity needs to innovate in ways that will continue to attract new developers. Maybe that's price, or maybe that's features.

    Epic's sign up page says that they believe it will take 6 months before the UE4 engine is fully tested, stable and cross-platform.

    I hope Unity uses that time to their advantage.
     
  36. Deleted User

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    WAIT WAIT WAIT.. Hmmm, it seems this version of UE4 is using Lightmass not Enlighten from what I've seen around the forums over there.

    So no realtime GI you say.. Things are becoming interesting.
     
  37. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    Well I think they realize the face of game development is changing. They know the big money productions are still going to be around but there wont be too many. But there will be many many indie users with increasingly better technology and ease of use. So I think they are making a move to stay at the top of recognition while at the same time, totally decimating their competition.

    Its a brilliant move on their part. Their competition probably never imagined in a million years that Epic would do this, and never prepared a contingency plan. So I assume Unity, Shiva, C4 Engine, Leadwerks, CryEngine, etc etc etc all experience a massive amount of butt-hurt right now. There is almost absolutely no way they can out-do what Epic has done. The face of game engines in within this year will look nothing like it does now. I guarantee many of the engines will go bye bye just by shear bankruptcy and total loss of users.
     
  38. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    If thats that case, so what. To be honest, with all the things UE4 offers no one is going to care about real time GI.
     
  39. ccsander

    ccsander

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    At this pace, this thread is going to have more responses than the Unity 5 announcement thread!

    Competition is great for us developers, but I hope Unity responds quickly to this so I won't have to consider switching and spend time evaluating and learning UE4.
     
  40. TheGraficalOne

    TheGraficalOne

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    So you're saying that there will be no udk 4 and unreal 4, but they have merged them into one cheap full source license?

    And in the place of udk's 25% at 50k + revenue fee they just take 5% from the start?

    If this is true then the biggest hurtle keeping a fully featured , industry leading game engine from the average, broke indedev is an insignificant $19!
     
  41. BrainMelter

    BrainMelter

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    You still have to factor in the 5% royalty. If your app makes $30k, that's $1.5k right there that goes to paying for Unreal.
     
  42. Woodlauncher

    Woodlauncher

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    That's not quite right though, as the OS matters.

    50.81% have DX11 and a DX11 supported OS
    11.99% have DX10 and a DX10 supported OS.
    So it's just 62.8% of Window users participating in the steam HW survey that can run UE4.

    20% have a DX10/11 GPU but are still on XP.
     
  43. Deleted User

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    Of course it will, you want to see how bounces affect everything. From shaders to textures to all the shiny crap we like to play with :)..

    Still after the several months of crap I've had with Unity it's not exactly a deal breaker so far.
     
  44. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Not really. The $19 only grants you PC/Mac/Mobile development but console licenses are still negotiated on a case by case basis.
     
  45. F.Salka

    F.Salka

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    So it seems that there is no real time GI nor enlighten support in this release, that's one advantage for Unity for now...
     
  46. TheGraficalOne

    TheGraficalOne

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    I figured as much. Still I have absolutely no plans on a console release any time soon.
     
  47. Woodlauncher

    Woodlauncher

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    Enlighten is in the 'Integrated Partners Program' for UE4, you just have to pay Geomerics to use it. Still Unity's advantage.
     
  48. Deleted User

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    Or extension for something like PowerVR baking, I can't believe I'm saying this but it appears Unity may be more graphically capable than UE4 but more expensive. There seems to be some sort of role reversal going on here??? :S

    Edit: +1 for UE4 no vert limit for static meshes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2014
  49. tiggus

    tiggus

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    Next thing you know tons of threads about why all these crappy unreal games look the same!
     
  50. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Neither do I, but I bet Epic knows that there's going to be a lot of larger dev houses that are going to need a lot of licenses, and that's going to provide them with a fair tick of revenue.
     
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