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Unreal 5 was revealed over 2 years ago. Is there any response at all from Unity?

Discussion in 'General Graphics' started by Roggi_, Jun 29, 2022.

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  1. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    So uh.. am I crazy or has Unity given up on the high end segment?

    I think I am not the only one who expected Unity to respond at least in some way to what Epic is doing with their engine, but there seems to complete radio silence from Unity.

    Enemies render demo looks good, but it's a single room and a single person demo with no source files or any aditional information available. Meanwhile Unreal has released two demos since 5.0 announcement and people get to tinker with it and recompile it even for a yet to be officialy released 5.1 UE.
    I have a hard time justifying making more non mobile games in Unity .. as it seems that mobile (and mobile VR) is the only segment left where Unity is relevant.
     
  2. CodeSmile

    CodeSmile

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    Honestly, I couldn‘t care less for all the flash Unreal is throwing out - except for my interest in technology that is. But for making games the majority of us work alone or in teams with less than 10 coworkers dedicated to a project. As a programmer I am far more excited about DOTS and the computational opportunities (specifically regarding runtime generated content) than flashy graphics that require labor intensive content creation.

    I actually feel relieved that Unity isn‘t trying to constantly fight public battles with Unreal on the flashy high-end looks we‘re not going to see in games over the next couple years to begin with. For me this is a sign of Unity knowing where they want to move forward to, regardless of what competitors are doing, and leaving competitors to lead in the area they are strong at (Unreal=flashy motion blurred gfx for FPS) while relying and improving on their own strengths (versatility, I‘d say, and an approachable, reliable toolset for any project).

    Disclaimer: I am biased, not having to be forced to work with Unreal so far. :D I like to learn new tech but not anything as complex as Unreal or Unity anymore, I‘d rather polish my skillset with that one engine since there‘s still a lot to learn even after 10 years.
     
  3. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    You might wanna lookup what Unreal 5 means for procedural content.

    Unreal has very clearly demonstrated that it's moving away from their FPS oriented roots. They are reworking the engine to work out of the box for open world games. A sign of whats to come in this area is the announcement of Witcher 4 moving to Unreal Engine 5.

    For procedural content specificaly, I had to work my ass of optimizing a not so flashy game in unity that dared to have a single large terrain of 2x2km and it suffered greatly visually. Suddenly not having to care about draw calls is a game changer for any content, procedural or otherwise. What's more, it looks gorgeous by itself. No baking scenes or prefabs like with Unity and the half done unity lightmaper and a third party solution that somehow works better than the official one.

    And as you are saying, it certainly looks like Unity has simply given up the technological race.
    Which is fine for some projects, like I said, non high end oriented. But that really sucks for us who believed that splitting the original render pipeline into three will lead to significant technological jump. Instead we have thrice as much hassle for the benefit of not having all the engine features available for your project, cause Unity gets to decide what features your render pipeline gets.

    The only last barrier between the two engines is that Unity is still the far far easier engine to work with, even solo.
    I don't see that changing anytime soon, Unreal is needlesly complicated by design, but it seems to me that for my non-low end projects, the choice has become between what's easy and what is right
     
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  4. Qriva

    Qriva

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    I just wanted to say that not every game is open world multiplayer MMO with hyper realistic visuals.
    That said, I think it's quite clear where Unity is aiming.
     
  5. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    MMO games by design dont pursuit highest end visuals, because they need all the players they can get, even with lower spec hardware.

    Small scale games benefit from great technology aswell. Stop with this HURR DURR UNREAL IRRELEVANT CAUSE INDIES argument.

    Look at this great looking game.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/vngmej/finally_got_enough_karma_to_post_my_trailer_made/

    Apart from the cool cartoonish look, it also looks great because of all the global illumination and prebaked lighting.
    Imagine if people could achieve those effects without hours of baking and limiting yourself to a static scene or a draw call budget..
     
  6. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I had the luxury of choosing UE5 or Unity + HDRP. I wonder what I picked?
     
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  7. Mauri

    Mauri

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    Godot? :p

    #jk
    .
     
  8. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Godot is awesome!
     
  9. Qriva

    Qriva

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    There is no need to enrage, that was partly joke, idiom for "imagination of inexperienced indie devs".

    Every game needs all the players they can get.
    Don't you think you are approaching the problem from the wrong side?
    Ask yourself what is the goal of this thread, because your post sounds like "Unreal good, Unity bad, shame" and even if that was not your intent, you are gonna end up with just another Unreal vs Unity thread. If Unreal is so good, then what are you doing here? If you care so much about Unity then instead you should adress actual problems, something like mentioned "half done unity lightmaper", provide some comparison/insight why is that.

    Also don't put into my mouth things I never said. I said there are many games that does not benefit from certain features you mentioned or even if they do, its probably not the key to create good game. Unity tries to be universal game engine and they ("kind of") follow this path more than two years. In the end it's just about the right tool, if you need Unreal, then use Unreal.

    Why these two engines must compete, while they could cover/target different customer area?
     
  10. warthos3399

    warthos3399

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    Its really simple. Unity is capable of HD type GFX like UE (HDRP). But UE is developed with FPS large open worlds in mind (no secret). There is no actual sense in asking the question you have asked/stated. What your really asking is "whats Unity going to do about this?". Nothing... Each engine (and there are many), is developed and suited for specific games. What your game is, will dictate what engine to use.

    Stop coming here and basicly asking "Unity to change the engine, to do what other game engines can do". This comment you stated, "I have a hard time justifying making more non mobile games in Unity .. as it seems that mobile (and mobile VR) is the only segment left where Unity is relevant.", is totally wrong. And seeing your 67 post count and statements, shows me your knowledge level of both engines...
     
  11. Stardog

    Stardog

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    They have never matched Unreal in the high-end and never will.

    And their supported mid/low-end renderer (URP) still has less features than the built-in which has gone 4+ years without graphical improvements. They should have far higher quality lighting/materials. PS4 games are more graphically advanced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
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  12. SamOld

    SamOld

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    Whilst this post probably isn't very productive, I think it's fair to remark on. In the past, Unity has tried to boast features like impressive "realtime" GI, and if anything has been moving backwards in that regard for years. They still market themselves as being a graphically impressive engine with their demos, but the reality is that their builtin features are barely up to scratch for previous generation games when it comes to things like lighting.

    If Unity isn't interested in competing in that space then that's okay, but it feels like they're still trying to market themselves as if they are.

    But actually, I don't think it's a lack of interest. They wouldn't have projects like the SRPs without ambitions of high end graphics capability. Those things were done with the goal of enabling high end games to do high end game things, they just haven't backed that up with any substance, and Unreal is making it look embarrassing.
     
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  13. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    That's some quality coping mechanism right there. I can't question Unity and if I dare to do so, I should go use Unreal instead. God forbid we actually talk about Unitys issues.


    Competition is what drives progress. Unity has fallen so far behind it's ridiculous. It's not pretty but complaining and shaming is what will make the decision makers notice. Sheepishly avoiding and dismissing the topic is the one thing that will not yeild any progress.


    You are simply dismissing what's already in front of you. If you allowed yourself to believe that there is actually something wrong with your favorite engine, you'd already know the usual points everyone talks about.
    I work for a living, so I can't write a whole book for someone like you who is in denial, but here is the gist of it:

    1) Why did Unity split into three engines? The OG rendering is still around and kicking. URP offers marginaly better performance than the OG rendering if the same amount of time is put into tinkering with it. Why does HDRP exist if it's still years behind Unreal?

    2) Why does Bakery do such a better job then the built in lightmapper that took almost a decade to develop?
    A Random dude came to Unity, saw a problem and fixed it because Unity just couldn't be bothered.

    3) Why does Jason Booth have to be the guy that fixes Terrain and basic Lit shaders for Unity?

    4) Nanite. Why does some dude have to start a funding campaign to add this to Unity?
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-unity-improver-nano-tech/coming_soon

    See the pattern? When it comes to pushing the technological envelope of Unity, it's always some random dude that does it for Unity.

    5) Still no truly real time GI. Enlighten works for static scenes with baking only. Screen space GI only does details, not full GI.
    Where is the solution to this? You've guessed it. Some dude on twitter is working on it:
    https://twitter.com/harrynesbitt



    Unity WAS the universal engine. Before they split it into standard, URP and HDRP.


    Because Unity themself split the engine into three and proclaimed that they can still do both with low end with URP and high end with HDRP.

    They failed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  14. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    Right, Unreal is used industry wide because it's only tailored for FPS.

    Right, a decade of experience with Unity, and the last 3 years of full time Unreal development is irrelevant because I only have 67 posts on the forum. Guys, disregard all I've said. My opinions are invalid since this guy thinks I should post more.
     
  15. Roggi_

    Roggi_

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    Exactly.
     
  16. valehntyn

    valehntyn

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    The wildest part, to me, is that Unity also has nearly double the amount of employees as Epic.

    What are they all doing? It's not like they're spending time developing and maintaining one of the world's most popular games, so how are they constantly behind epic on the technological curve?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
  17. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Thread is locked because there are many like this if you do a search. It's just the same old Unity vs Epic. To be productive, try them both and pick one that suits your requirements.

    Regardless, speculation is pointless.
     
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