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Unity's pricing not to change, WebGL will be free

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Meltdown, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Grafos

    Grafos

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    "More difficult" might refer to a couple of things that don't work as intended yet in UE4. For example, getting a blender character to work properly in UE4 is currently quite a trying experience and a simple matter of drag & dropping a blend file in Unity. But all those issues in UE4 are being worked on at a very fast pace.
     
  2. Moonjump

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    Last month I went to 2 games conferences (Develop and Liverpool Games Conference). UE4 had a presence at both, so I was eager to get a demonstration to see what it offered. At Develop I got to speak to someone when they were free, but they were an indie developer showing off their Oculus Rift game. Seemingly similar for the others around him. At Liverpool their stand was busy when the government minister was being shown around, but unmanned whenever I visited later. So I never got a demo at either.

    Unity had a stand at Develop. I got an extensive demo of U5, which made it look far more impressive than the blogs. Someone returning from giving a talk took over to show me the new audio tools, which offer far more than I realised. All the Unity staff were enthusiastic, just as they always are when I meet them.

    Apparently UE4 has more work to do to get their mobile tools up to scratch. But there are also other areas they need to work on to succeed. Can they do that on $19 a month per user?

    I am not looking for Unity to try to match UE4 pricing, but I wish there was a better deal for mobile developers.
     
  3. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Yeah, there's the rub. Unity's pricing as a whole isn't individual friendly, but their only major competitor's pricing is.
     
  4. TheDMan

    TheDMan

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    I never mentioned UE4 specifically in my argument. There are tons of other engines out there.

    For 2D, Unity is not the best nor the cheapest. I can think of three right now that offer way more for 2D/mobile development that are easier to use, more user friendly, can export to more platforms, and are substantially cheaper.

    For 3D, while at the moment UE4 is a huge contender, it isn't the only one. There are a few others out there working really hard to wedge themselves in between. But all of them share many things in common with each other. Unity is not 100% complete, like how UE4 is not 100% complete. There are a lot half-baked features that are implemented in Unity, and vice-versa with the others. Now they all have their plus and minuses, and if you weigh them out, and if it none impact your project in a way to sway your opinion to pick one vs another and the only thing left at the end is price ....... then people will decide based on price. Price is something people understand quite easily. There is no guessing or wondering involved. So it is a very key component when it comes to individuals choice process.
     
  5. malosal

    malosal

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    Don't use the impression of others, try it yourself using Unreal and the free version of Unity. And obviously don't use the templates in Unreal as a start. Think of a simple game and do it with both, and you'll see what I mean. I actually own both. I actually like Unreal and keep it because its so cheap, but I do my projects in Unity because even with blueprints in Unreal it becomes very complicated....
     
  6. malosal

    malosal

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    It is true. Pretty much any review of the 2 engines will state that the learning curve is much steeper with Unreal. But like I told another in this forum, try making a simple game yourself using Unreal and the free version of Unity. And obviously don't use the templates in Unreal as a start. Think of a simple game and do it with both, and you'll see what I mean. I actually own both. I actually like Unreal and keep it because its so cheap and is nice for some things like special effects and blueprints, but I do my projects in Unity because even with blueprints in Unreal it becomes very complicated....
     
  7. Ryiah

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    I did not intend to give the impression I had not tried it. I have tried both engines, without using the templates for more than reference help (basically like you'd use documentation), and have found both engines to be equally easy to work with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  8. malosal

    malosal

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    Yes I actually own UE4 and also Unity. I am surprised you don't agree because those who review the engines pretty much always admit that Unreal has a higher learning curve. Do something simple(without using the given blueprints at the begining) such as moving a character around, making him jump, and fire something. Do this in both engines, and see which one is simpler and report back your results. I guarantee you Unity will be much easier and quicker.
     
  9. Ryiah

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    Except the templates are best viewed as example documentation. You would almost never consider using them for more than actual learning purposes any more than you would copy and paste example code for the Unity API into your game.

    You are effectively throwing away part of the documentation used to learn the engine. Naturally it will be more difficult.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  10. malosal

    malosal

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    And why do you think that is? Think about it for a second! When you look at the blueprints you get your answer. It is because they are not easy to do at all even for an intermediate user. For each one of those blueprint examples they provide, a Unity equivalent can be easily done by a Unity user with just a little bit of training. If you want to fight me on this point pick a blueprint and lets talk about how it can be done in Unity and we'll see which is simpler.
     
  11. Murgilod

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    I have done both.

    Blueprints are piss easy. They're even easier than PlayMaker, which is also piss easy.
     
  12. VicToMeyeZR

    VicToMeyeZR

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    You do understand sarcasm right? My point was perfectly accurate.
     
  13. Ryiah

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    Why should I fight you? You're not stating facts, you're stating an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion and I have given mine. I simply do not agree that Unreal is difficult to understand.

    Claiming that Blueprint templates exist because it is difficult to pick up is a weird statement. While it may not come pre-packaged with templates, Unity has an entire section of its site dedicated to learning it with video tutorials and example code. Why is it supposedly easier when it has so much to assist?

    Something to consider is that not everyone finds the same things to be the same level of difficulty. It may have simply been more difficult for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  14. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    Discussion and debate is great, but this is getting off-topic. Back to WebGL-ness!

    I am sure you are welcome to make a thread about Visual Scripting, which you can discuss that sort of thing in. :)
     
  15. Ryiah

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    If people cared enough to continue the WebGL discussion they sure didn't make themselves known. This was really just an announcement thread anyways because the original details were buried in another thread.
     
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  16. malosal

    malosal

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    Blueprints are a means to creating something, so saying that they are "piss easy" doesn't say much. I mean you could have a blueprint simply print out a string to say "Hello". Or for example, you could use blueprints to create the AI for stage boss. Either way, its what you are using blueprints for that makes it "piss easy" or not. For example look at the blueprint for rolling a ball on a plane with keyboard or joystick input, and then compare it with the code you would use in Unity to achieve the same thing. This will show you what I am referring to.
     
  17. Murgilod

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    No, it really doesn't and you were already asked to drop this.
     
  18. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    How a topic on Unity's pricing model and WebGL support turns into a discussion about a visual scripting feature from another game engine I have no idea.

    Let's keep it on topic please people, otherwise Hippo is going to start throwing his weight around, and trust me, I'm from Africa, you don't want to see an angry Hippo :D
     
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  19. goat

    goat

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    Using the word 'piss' is supposed to demean your intelligence if you don't agree with the author of the statement. It is supposed to intimidate you into silence if you don't agree with the author.

    Why isn't that tactic working for the author though?
     
    Dabeh likes this.
  20. tiggus

    tiggus

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    The thing I have learned about WebGL is that right now it is awesome if:

    a) You like javascript (Three.js, babylon.js, Phaser, Pixi, Flambe, etc.)
    b) You like Flash/Haxe (HaxeFlixel)
    c) I would use Unity just for the C# export to Javascript capability, and code organization that comes with it
     
  21. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Sorry to step off-topic, but do you check your PMs?
     
  22. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    I would like to see Unity's pricing model for subscriptions change.

    If your business earns < 100k a year, then perhaps a very reasonable subscription price will attract a lot of free users?
    I'm talking anywhere between $29 - $49 month for a fully featured pro editor for all platforms.

    If the business earns > 100k a year, then $75 for pro, plus another $45 per platform is still reasonable?

    The general consensus on these forums is that the subscription pricing model sucks. And I know we are not the 'majority' or part of some 'survey' or dont reflect the masses, but we are a voice that can be heard and I think what is said on these forums should at least have some consideration taken into account.
     
  23. malosal

    malosal

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    Excuse me? Well your answer says it all. Thanks.
     
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  24. malosal

    malosal

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    Agreed. And the info is relevant because matters of price are very much related to easy of use and flexibility. And now opengl. Great. Its very much a clear issue.
     
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  25. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    UE4 It's a new engine from the ground-up where most of the features you see have been ported and re-written from scratch. UE4 Editor is completely different and new. Even the Unreal Framework is different, it's a general purpose game framework now (UE3 had a specific gameplay framework). Also the workflow in UE4 have nothing to do with the one in UE3.
     
  26. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    Ok. But Visual Scripting is still off-topic as it isn't part of the pricing announcement or WebGL, no matter how you dress it up. You are more than welcome to make a thread to talk about VS. :)


    Really sorry! Just getting round to emails/messages/everything after a very busy couple of weeks. Responding to that next. :)


    Anyway, Heck Yes Unity to WebGL! :cool::cool:
     
  27. StarManta

    StarManta

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    What are the player sizes for WebGL like? It was mentioned at one point that the first time there was a successful WebGL build, the JS version of just the engine was hundreds of MB. How big are the players in more current versions?
     
  28. Jither

    Jither

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    Last I heard Andy T mention it in some seminar video (a few weeks ago), he said 20/30 MB with a target around 10. Think it's somewhere in this video:



    ETA: Yup, around 29:15
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  29. Daydreamer66

    Daydreamer66

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    I believe this was covered in the forum shortly after the UE4 launch. If I remember correctly, your clients would pay no royalty, which is a huge plus if your client specifically requests Unreal.
     
  30. jonas-echterhoff

    jonas-echterhoff

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    Some download sizes from content we have tried (total download until game starts, code + assets):

    -Trivial "Flappy Bird" style game: ~3.5 MB (~2.5 MB code, ~1 MB assets)
    -AngryBots ~20 MB: (~4MB code, 15 MB assets)
    -Dead Trigger 2: 30-something MB (~7MB code, rest AssetBundles)
     
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  31. orb

    orb

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    Those are all pretty good numbers, Jonas. It's funny how the 2D game is more code than assets, though :p
     
  32. Davain

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    I read a lot of treads about the price problem and the unwillingness of Unity to go for the royalties model. There is an idea I want to suggest and I am sorry if this was already suggested before as I truly haven't seen something similar.

    What about making only one version of Unity (no more feature limits) which will be available free up to 15000$ gross profit annually? If a developer makes more he is obligated to buy a full license. This could also be done per platform. For example if a developer makes 40000$ in a year which consist of 18000$ on PC 15000$ on iOS and 7000$ on android, this developer will be obligated to purchase unity+iOS license. The numbers are obviously only to pass the idea, the actual numbers should be decided by Unity. It could be up to 5000$ per year or 25000$ per year etc.

    What do you think ?
     
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  33. Davain

    Davain

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    Also, this way a license can be up to X gross profit. For example:
    up to 15000$ the license is free
    from 15000$ to 100000$ the license is 1500$
    from 100000$ to 1000000$ the license is 5000$
    etc.

    And maybe then the iOS and android addons will be part of the license
     
  34. jonas-echterhoff

    jonas-echterhoff

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    Obviously, you could make a "Flappy Bird" style game in straight JavaScript using much less code then that. Remember that you are still shipping the Unity engine itself, converted to JavaScript along with the game, which is obviously a bit bigger then a hand-coded flappy bird clone. We did spend a lot of time on making this as small as possible, though, building some new stripping technology, to have the linker remove parts of the engine which are not needed. For comparison, the UE4 "flappy bird" clone epic made is 7MB in code alone (hey, this thread had already turned into another UE4 vs Unity thread anyways :) ).
     
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  35. orb

    orb

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    Yes, so it's pretty good reduction on .NET-ish code :)

    I hope it can completely replace the old webplayer plugin. One less threshold for testers to try prototypes.
     
  36. Moonjump

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    You mention stripping, which on other platforms is currently Pro only. Does that mean the quoted sizes are for the Pro version?
     
  37. lilymontoute

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    I think there's two types of stripping going on here. One is stripping out features of the engine itself (so no 3D physics if it's not being used, or no 2D physics if it's not being used, etc), and one is stripping down user code that is never used (extra scripts and unused functions, etc). I think only the latter is Pro only, and the former always happens (could be wrong, though)
     
  38. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Nope, stripping user code is never done. All scripts are always included regardless of whether they're used or not, since there's no good way to know for sure if they're referenced. Stripping unused assets of other types, though, has always been done since the beginning; just look in the build log for what's included. Currently the only code stripping options are for iOS Pro (not sure offhand if Android builds have that) and it's not very granular.

    --Eric
     
  39. Zeblote

    Zeblote

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    Will webgl builds run all the cool graphics stuff they also announced for 5.0? The GI for example?
     
  40. lilymontoute

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    Oh? I thought code stripping happened for WebGL as well as iOS Pro - my mistake in that case. I don't think WebGL's stripping is necessarily pro only though. The feature split there hasn't been decided anyways, so who knows.. *shrug*
     
  41. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    I was actually referring to what's currently publicly available, which WebGL isn't yet.

    --Eric
     
  42. Dabeh

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    Don't forget condescending.
     
  43. jonas-echterhoff

    jonas-echterhoff

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    WebGL has similar stripping of engine code as iOS has now - but they way we do it in WebGL is more granular and will strip more code. Whether it will be Pro only or free -- don't know yet.
     
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