UNITY, you are losing so many new devs to UE4 due to Oculus support

Yes I'm sure there are probably a lot of prior things that have contributed. Society in general seems to be one of entitlement these days which is frustrating, and when people are passionate about something it's easy for things to get heated. And I imagine the Unity/Unreal pricing situation has been beat into the ground already on these forums and elsewhere.

It would be nice to have another option for Unity, maybe somewhere between the current Free and Pro models. Who knows, there might be some structure changes once Unity 5 is released. Personally I'm very excited to see the new features in action.

 

this is a fair comment, and i should restate that my attitude is based on the fact you are not in a position to comment if you dont know what it is

at the very least you could see if you could get a cardboard for $20 and a pals phone and see whats actually happening, and why it can propogate, and then at least contribute constructively, its not really a problem with what youre saying per se, its a frustration that you're reiterating opinions from an entirely uninformed position

have a go on it! decide you hate it! then contribute, its all i ask from these debates

 

That's like saying I don't understand cars because I haven't tried one specific model. The older technology might be bulky and less refined, but it is still reasonably similar to the Rift to make a fair comparison.

That was never the issue though. The issue is that I don't want to invest in a product that has yet to prove itself on the market. Developers flocking to it in droves does not make it successful. Consumers have to pick it up for that to happen.

 

I think it's irrelevant whether or not VR is going to be a hit. The point is that VR development is really hot right now, and Unity are losing users to other platforms because they don't offer the same low-risk entry as competitors [for VR development].

 

Yes this is definitely true

 

And I think Ryiah's point is, if you can throw $350.00 on the Rift per unit why can't you pony up $75.00 a month for a year for Unity pro, or $1500.00 whatever tickles your fancy. What strikes me more is, if the guys at Epic are doing things right. What's the problem with using that engine?

Irrelevant of whether people think it's hot, rubbish, a gimmick or whatever. The beauty is there's nothing to stop said person using engine X if they want to develop for OR.

End of the day, if Unity is loosing out or even if they believe they aren't it's there decision to make. I think this topic extends way beyond OR and as soon as people start mentioning it the mods will lock it down faster than a cheetah chasing a steak on a slow treadmill.

 

And therefore this thread offers nothing more then the countless other threads complaining about Unity not matching UE4's pricing.

Unity has already stated that they have no plans to change their pricing.

Those that want Pro features and won't/can't pony up the money for Unity Pro should go to UE4.

Those that want to keep using Unity and accept their pricing structure should stay here.

It's pointless to keep rehashing this and I don't understand why this thread is still open.

 

You have to take my word for it, it really is not, it's a new medium, like tv, like speakers, its a peripheral only in that it offers input, its a medium in that it places you in the most completely believable place within the game space you'd ever have imagined possible, and you will not see it coming until it happens

The older technology is just nothing remotely like it, the grunt needed to provide the imagery hit the right spot, the optics and hardware hit the right affordability (thanks to mobile phones), and this has resulted in the OR, and no you haven't experienced it before. You'll see what i (and everyone else in this thread who has used it) will mean when you try it for yourself

 

Wait.. you have a steak?

 

Make no misteak, I always have STEAK!.. Mwahaha!.

 

I was trying to say that VR-development should be possible in free.

 

mmm steak

hey shadowK, as fellow graphics splurger, go check out jove 2 in the assets forum, it may dingle your dangle

 

Off topic, actually for once I recon it'll be a nice break from the ensuing wave.

I spoke with the creator on Unity Chat, great guy.. It looks very promising LG, looking forward to playing about with it.

Also the TOD system from the guy who did Suimono looks AMAZINGS!.

 

You have my attention, why is that?

 

Probably the coolest gaming experience that I have ever had was trying out the DK2 with Sixense's STEM system playing their Lightsaber demo. Wielding two lightsabers and knocking lasers out of the air in VR was amazing.

VR really shines with sim racing. The DK1 was a cool experience but the very low resolution, drift issues, lack of position sensing and high persistence made it more of a gimmick. The DK2 is night and day different for me. The resolution is still bad but the position sensing and low persistence more than make up for the lack of resolution. I really have no desire to go back to triple screens and I am eagerly waiting for iRacing and Assetto Corsa to get DK2 support. Live for Speed was pretty well a dead racing sim but early and very well implemented DK2 support has lead to a lot more sales for LFS.

Before Sixense's Hydra and the Oculus Rift, I really had little interest in game development. My profession doesn't even have anything to do with computer programming. The potential that I see in VR and 3D motion measurement has led me to spend countless hours learning programming, 3D modelling and animating, and game development. Without Unity, I would probably still be lost. I'm pretty good with computers but I don't know how far I'd get if I would have to program everything from scratch.

 

Yeah OT again but we must make our bubble of shinies love, i'm find it immense fun to work with, the integration is crazy, its like everything comes together in moments instead of an awful stretch of combative components, and so much cool stuff yet to come too, definitely seeing it as my go-to workhorse if shaderforge and stuff like truesky can make it in, love tanuki's look but dunno if it goes well with Jove, actually considering reworking the final result of scrawks proland ocean implementation into a suimono based interface (tricky tricky) but ive got that fft running crazy fast for whatever reason (mainly caning the variance compute shader threads), and with trochoidal breaking waves for shores and the fact Jove uses Inrias atmospheric model like the Proland eg does, seems like a real invitation to prettiness. A lot of dismantling ahead though. I should check out unity chat

 

Because otherwise Unity will lose VR developers to competitors.

 

I genuinely see VR as a new medium, like monitor or audio, and should be given the treatment

 

Only if everyone interested in VR could not afford Unity Pro.

 

But that's not our problem, that's Unity's. I like Unity, it's a cool product and I really like the devs on this forum. But just like 3DSMax or Modo, I can take or leave it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, peaking curiosity and all that.

 

Only the ones not wanting to invest in pro version which is not the same thing.

 

Indeed, it is Unity's problem, and there are many of us who want Unity to succeed because we are invested in their product.

The ones not wanting to invest seem to be a great deal - that's the problem. Imo losing a user to a competitor is worse than retaining one, even though no immediate profit is made from this individual. The prospect of this user advancing his or her relationship with Unity in the form of a pro license, assets from the store or simply a presence in the community is worth contemplating.

 

This is really bringing us full (I actually mistyped this as "fool" at first..) circle at this point. Just because the new potential VR devs can AFFORD Pro, doesn't mean they can justify Pro when there is such a lower-risk option out there. Judging from the huge response on that Reddit thread (unless every single one of those people were lying, unlikely) it's a fact that Unity has lost and is losing potential customers. It is really up to them to decide if the relatively low number of developers working on Rift content is worth changing their pricing model. If they don't, then those devs who can't justify the price will go to Unreal. Life will likely go on for everyone involved, either way.

 

I cannot imagine most devs unable to afford Pro would be capable of producing worthwhile games. Licensing costs for Unity Pro are by far one of the least expensive aspects.

 

I fail to see how this is relevant. A lot of people are just fooling around with VR as a hobby, will never release a quality game, but are still happy to spend money.

 

A lot of people are claiming that they cannot afford Unity Pro. I am saying if they cannot afford Unity Pro chances are they cannot afford the necessary costs involved in creating quality content. Most of the games they produce are likely to be low quality.

Virtual reality will need quality products to encourage consumers to buy the devices.

 

This might be true, although it is a fairly sweeping assumption. It seems the main issue though is people who are just getting into game development. You're right they probably won't make something amazing this month, or even this year. But if they stick with it, it's entirely possible that they might one day. And right now, based on current pricing models, they are choosing to go with Unreal because it seems like a much smaller financial commitment while they're learning. Yes Unity offers discounts for actual students, but not for random people who want to learn Unity and get into game development. And typically people will stick with what they know and are comfortable with. I have used Unity and UDK both, but used Unity first and more extensively. Because of that, even though the price is so much more attractive on UE4 (not to mention their awesome material editor and graphical fidelity), I am still leaning towards Unity Pro once I leave my studio job to start developing my own work. Which is kind of funny considering our topic, I may actually end up paying more and sticking with Unity because it was what I used first (at a studio that had Pro, so I didn't have to purchase it myself). While many others are choosing to use UE4 first because of the price.

 

You're right (in some cases), but if if there are two cars for sale and one gives me a satnav for free. I'm obviously going to choose the one with the satnav..

It's not about the cost, it's more about what you get.

 

The Rift will need quality products in order to entice consumers to purchase it. If it takes too long to make a profit, investors such as Facebook may pull the plug.

 

I don't see how any of that is relevant to Unity. Unity need developers to choose their engine. Right now seemingly many aren't because of a popular feature missing in free (VR). Whether or not people are buying the devices doesn't matter that much.

 

This is absolutely true as well, and one of the biggest issues. Without a good selection of exceptional content, the Rift may fail no matter how good the hardware is.

I guess I was assuming that the Rift has initiated a new group of people into the idea of game development and gotten them excited about it. However well the Rift does commercially over the next few years, those people may stick with development. But I admit that's wild speculation at this point.

 

Maybe Unity has been following the situation the whole time but also evaluated the risks and benefits it would mean them at the moment. Maybe some Unity 5.x will have native Oculus support in free version but not today in end of life 4.x or in first 5.0 which they are busy enough with. Making fast decision on this whole matter might not be realistic at the moment because Oculus is not yet even "out" and some of the people tinkering with might not be serious enough and/or not enough potential users yet to invest time to native support among the other features that might have more selling value.

 

If every comment on that Reddit thread was a single user, that's still only a little over 340. Multiply it by a factor of ten and it is still a minor fraction of the two million developers they had in July 2013. Don't you think that's a bit of an exaggeration to claim "many"?

 

Yes, the majority of developers are not replying to that thread. Or any thread. I don't think that's a realistic expectation to make. But judging from the ones that do reply, the numbers greatly favor UE4. Might be trolling fanboys skewing the numbers, true. For me it is not a stretch to think people are choosing UE4 for VR though, knowing OR SDK is incompatible with Unity Free.

 

Yes compared to their entire customer base it truly is a drop in the bucket. However it is also a fairly overwhelming number of responses for that subreddit, and most of those people mentioned switching or choosing UE4 over Unity. This doesn't seem completely insubstantial and easily dismissed. As Ostwind said just now though, I'm sure UT is fully aware and monitoring the situation and will make their decisions accordingly.

Either way it will be interesting to see how things proceed from here, both with UT and OR.

 

Yes exactly, it's not necessarily the number that is worrying, it's the ratio. Most people will not post (I saw it but didn't), and yet out of those who are posting, the overwhelming number chose UE4. It seems like it's at least worth thinking about.

Edit: I'm also not aware of a huge UE4 fanboy population on that subreddit. Many of the responses involved using Unity first and liking it, but ultimately switching. From my time reading that sub, people are generally just happy for more Rift content, no matter which engine it comes from.

 

I don't think it is a stretch to most think people are choosing UE4 for VR, but I do feel it is a stretch to believe most of them are doing it because of Unity Free.

 

And that's where we disagree I suppose.

I think a lot would choose Unity Free if OR SDK was compatible.

 

Personally not sure why, if you can use one game engine the concepts are the same across the board. The frustrating thing is how they go about it.

It's like going to your favourite food mart and they think it's a smart idea to change the isles around, it'll annoy the hell out of you initially. But you'll get used to it..

OR is a bit of an afterthought for us, but still I wouldn't let a tool preference stand in my way. Really it boils down to excuses, there is a way to develop for OR cheap. Just depends if this "investment" which can't be too much as you're using a free product equates to being bothered to learn another product. Sorry If that's lacking a bit of tact, but I think the logic is sound.

 

I'm inclined to agree, although there are almost certainly some who are choosing it based on the graphical fidelity of UE4. I think Unity 5 will close THAT gap significantly though. And interestingly enough, so far I have found that simpler and more stylized games look better on the DK2 because of the low resolution. Highly detailed UE4 environments don't carry over as well because the aesthetics largely come from the level of detail and realism, which the current Rift resolution doesn't really support. The aesthetics in a stylized environment though are purely from the art style, which carries over just fine onto a lower res screen.

 

It seemed to me that a great deal of responses in that thread were people who would rather be using Unity but were forced into UE4 because of cost associated with Unity / risk of investment etc...

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2gitmt/question_from_unity_employee_to_me_how_many_new/

 

Do they represent the majority though? Statistics given in this thread were as high as 100,000 developers and that Reddit has over 35,000 subscriptions. Yet only a little over 340 have responded.

 

I just have a situ where I personally have invested a lot in Unity, in time and money and even making personal bonds and creating working communications so i'd like Unity to really support VR, its where i'm headed, i can see an absolutely crystal clear trajectory through which this technology will pass, it will change a lot, it will become a very different creature, and it will be very, very, important. Id like everyone to be allowed that, not just the financially able - to see it at a certain stark perspective, VR becomes the physical manifestation of internet information, integrated into our sight and possibly other senses, and the authors of this expansion should be as free to stake their place in it were they the kid on free or the marketing team with their art guys on pro - its an enormous, infinite space in fact and it can't be allowed to become monopolised entirely by developers who hae only financial reward in mind, when its such a verdan t groundfor creation and expression

You're really, genuinely allowing people to express creations in completely unconventional innovative ways that a perciever can truly feel a part of.. putting all that creative freedom into purely financially motivated hands is to me just well.. S***ty. Its a really bad move towards inhibiting expression based on circumstances, and pretty anathema to this who democritisation bollocks unity were going on about years ago

I dont think im talking S*** about vr cause ive spent quite a lot of time in there and ive been able to make correlations between my own experiences of psychosis and how vr can be used to communicate so much about another persopns state of mind to another, its really quite a profound thing and i'd like for people to stop talking about games right now

Unity can be seen as an interactive content development platform with heavily developed visual features and a heavily supported catalogue of periphery systems to help it fulfil almost any task you'd like it to succeed

No fecking games (for now)

Therapy support, arch vis, traffic safety simulations, medical applications, live gig organisation, hmd to AR overlay middleware, available on all playforms as usual, absolutely any application where a person would gain greatly from a palpable conception of space

Dont just give this stuff to the guys that are trying to make a buck out of their customers

 

Unity Technologies is also trying to make money from their customers. While it would be nice to see them offer more features in Unity Free, they make their money differently than Epic. Epic's primary source of income is not the $20 monthly subscription but the 5% royalties.

Epic is gambling that they will attract enough developers that the 5% royalties will keep them in business.

 

To be honest this is a pure matter of principle and my own feelings about the medium and what it proposes. Things like that shouldn't have a price tag, it's plain decency. Unito Pro has an absolutely enormous myriad of features that really are spectacular, must buy pro freatures, and it can have them! (Not that the whole 100k income shouldnt be enough of a stimpulation), but this is support for what could be the most expressive medium yet devised and its a bit of a S***ty move denying it from the people who would benefit from it most, in terms of learning and preparing for future developments

 

Well there is this fantastic engine for hobbyists with a very affordable price tag by a well-known company...

 

It's a good answer until you say 'well, no, i actually really wanted to use Unity, it looked great, and its a massive pity i cant', oh well, on to BRAND X

 

There are over 100k rifts in the wild now. I estimated between 10-50k actually are trying their hand at developing. Cause who really knows that number.. this thread was just a representative sample to hopefully show just how passionate the Oculus devs are about this and that we have significant numbers.

 

Great! We'll have how many quality games out of that to impress potential customers when it launches?

 

Poor analogy. Try another..and another..and another. You will never find the right one. Pay the piper and play the wheel.