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Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 22, 2023.

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  1. AdrellaDev

    AdrellaDev

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    Just saying, if they port Space Graphics Toolkit over to Unreal, I will be first in line to buy it. One of my favorite Unity packs.
     
  2. altepTest

    altepTest

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    dude from the video thinks 200k are "sold" games when is actually "installs", (sold, free, demos, pirated versions, so the entire video premise is wrong.
     
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  3. Noisecrime

    Noisecrime

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    If Unity's response to all this is a simple 'Our bad, we heard you, we will switch to a 5% royalty scheme' then I'm out, as that will be as blatant a bait and switch as it is possible to be.

    I'm even more worried that this is the end game here, as they have instigated this change to plans already and is poised to have fees take effect Jan 2024, whilst Plus has been discontinued, but with a years grace period for existing subscribers.

    However what is very telling is that they have FAILED to provide are actual legal terms, licences or conditions, that spell out the exact nature of the install tax, define terms of all of the words ( e.g. install, game, exceptions etc ). That is they have instigated the change but provided none of the legal requirements needed, which makes it seem like they deliberately did half the work, the 'scary' part to convey to the community the changes they want to implement, but none of the legal or backend framework that would be necessary for something that is happen in 3 months!

    Now what do I mean by 'I am out' well that is somewhat nuanced, but is driven by the complete loss of trust this event would have caused.
    • Existing clients will be forced to cover the cost to jump to Pro, or we drop to Personal, suffer the Unity splash screen and Unity lose $400 p.a from me. No fees as the apps/games are exempt/below thresholds/no revenue.
    • All future client projects will endeavour to use alternative engines.
    • All existing client projects will investigate alternative engines.
    • All personal projects will first be explored with alternative game engines.
    • Personal projects switch to Unity Personal - I don't they hit thresholds so Unity makes nothing from me. I no longer use Unity as a engine I love and respect, but it becomes purely business transactional and will disappear completely if an alternative engine is insufficient to meet a games needs.
    • Unity community potential loses a developer, more so if learning a new engine;
      • with 12 years experience, 25 years game experience.
      • no longer feel inclined to answer community questions on forums etc
      • no longer advocate for Unity in professional or non-professional environments.
    • Stop buying Unity Assets as they are a wasted investment.
    While I can't say at this point that Unity would be worse of finically with regards to myself ( not that they care about a single developer), at least not short term, the point is long term they have irreversibly harmed there brand, and may have created a self-fulling downward spiral.
     
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  4. pumpkinszwan

    pumpkinszwan

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    As an asset developer I disagree. 90% or more of Unity developers will not be impacted by this change at all. The only ones affected will be massive devs earning millions (who will still be better off with Unity than with Unreal) and F2P devs, who I wouldn't expect would buy any of my assets anyway.

    This is being blown out of proportion - it really won't affect many devs.
     
  5. unity_028AE3B1F1BC5DECE8AD

    unity_028AE3B1F1BC5DECE8AD

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    Every (former) Unity developer right now:
    Two-Buttons.jpg
     
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  6. jaerhx

    jaerhx

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    The issue isn't even the threshold to me. It is the fact that Unity loses absolutely nothing if someone installs a game on multiple machines. They are basically asking us to pay a seat for the player. That is unacceptable.

    Additionally, to retroactively apply this change to anyone who has released or is working on something right now is unacceptable.
     
  7. CarlosAI

    CarlosAI

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    I have lost hope in Unity. They have changed their pricing plan several times in recent years. Who knows when the next time will be? Maybe it will be the next year? And the price will definitely increase over time. Perhaps the next time it will be $0.4 or $1.0 per install? Who knows?

    Maybe you can still survive after this new pricing plan of Unity, but what about the next one?
    So I think we should seriously think about switching the game engine.
     
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  8. daniellearmouth

    daniellearmouth

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    Even if this is the case, the fact that lots and lots of people are up in arms about this entire thing is a sign that maybe, just maybe...

    ...this entire scheme is a bad idea all around?
     
    Astha666, Spasmoth, protopop and 2 others like this.
  9. jaerhx

    jaerhx

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    I'm happy to pay Unity the same price as Unreal royalties. I am not happy about retroactively changing rules and making them arbitrary and unknown to the developer. A developer needs predictable rules. "5% of the last quarters profit" is predictable. "0.20 of every install over X in the last month" is not predictable
     
  10. PixHammer_

    PixHammer_

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    Yeah, I was in the middle of making the start of a tutorial series for Client Side Prediction Networking for first person shooters, was hoping to start getting some series to help onboard people to Physics in XR development too, scrapping those in favour versions for Godot where possible. I'm not going to contribute to this nightmare platform, even if they backtrack.
    Thanks for the perfect reason to leave. So done with wasting my time here.
     
  11. Gigi23556

    Gigi23556

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    You sure you can get to the end point by 1 Jan 2024?
    You only have 3 months... if you failed, we pay you for your failure?
     
    Alahmnat likes this.
  12. Ultroman

    Ultroman

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    You wouldn't suddenly owe them $900.000.

    As I read it, it works like this:
    - Each month Unity calculates the revenue and number of installs that your game has had within the last 12 months.
    - If the game has hit both the revenue and install thresholds, you pay a fee for each install made during the previous month, NOT all the installs you've had in the 12 months.
    - You only pay the installs from after the threshold was met, so if you got 20.000 installs last month, so you're now at 200.003 installs within the last 12 months, you pay 3 fees of whatever margin you're in on the fee-chart, not 10.000 fees.

    So, when you have success, they get money. However, if you have a sudden surge of installs and revenue in one month which then dies off by next month, you're now more incentivized to pull the game down ASAP, if revenue per customer isn't high enough (unless you can fix that, but if you could, then the fee wouldn't be a problem, hehe).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  13. JTAU

    JTAU

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    Reducing risk is pretty important, and having a known stable thing is better than having an unknown thing that is completely out of your control and completely unclear (i.e. how will they determine if an install is legit or not). If the results of this change make it still more appealing than the UE offer, surely they could have just added say, a 2% revenue share, still look more appealing, but without all of the crazy per-install uncertainty.
     
  14. Inc8877

    Inc8877

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    Just for understanding, from 2024 January 1, if for example we take a F2P game that has earned $200,000 or more in the last 12 months and has, for example, 175,000 installs per month with a cost per install of $0.10, then we will get the following calculations:

    Monthly installs: 175,000
    Profit per install: $0.1
    Monthly revenue: $17,500

    With Unity Personal fee = 175,000 * 0.2 = $35,000 | Your Revenue: 17,500 - 35,000 = $-17,500
    With Unity Pro fee = 175,000 * 0.075 = $13,125 | Your Revenue: 17,500 - 13,125 = $4,375

    And I didn’t even take into account the costs of taxes and subscriptions that also cost money.

    Unity, how do you think your new business model will help me?

    This business model will simply kill F2P games, I can’t imagine how the people who worked on this model had the brains to offer it to clients.
     
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  15. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    And that they might completely change their business model for the worse at any time and retroactively. What is stopping them from changing the threshold and fees and in few months retroactively again?
     
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  16. stephanu

    stephanu

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    Unity counting installs be like
     
  17. rochmich

    rochmich

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    Maybe I missunderstand you but this seems wrong to me. The way your fees are calculated is by taking total amount of installs in the last 11 months and charging you for any new installs in the last month, for every install above a certain threshold.

    So if you make 100k installs for 12 months, on the 12 month you will have a history of 11x100k = 1.1M installs, meaning the new 100k installs are above the threshold of 1.1M and thus they will be charged with a rate of 0.075. You would not be charged anything for the first 10 months as well. So in this sense, you can also just sum all sales in the last 12 months and calculate the rates cumulatively like in the table.
     
  18. mirukawa

    mirukawa

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    upload_2023-9-13_15-52-10.png
    guys...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  19. Zyrac

    Zyrac

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    This is deeply disturbing. So, as I understand it, a small dev company using a paid license of the Unity Engine who’ve found success and have been (reasonably) factoring the old pricing model into their budget and have tentatively been working on expanding, can now be slapped in the face with a sudden and significant cut in revenue because some higher ups at Unity have decided they want to squeeze more money out of them on top of the license fees they were already paying?

    Not only that, but Unity have set a precedent for suddenly twisting the pricing model into some completely new shape for users who have been working for years on the basis of the previous pricing model via some poorly communicated post.

    I’ve been using Unity for years. It’s basically how I started learning programming as a teen. But now… This is just gross. It’s a huge slap in the face for anyone who’s decided to trust that Unity provides a good service.
     
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  20. jacob_unity577

    jacob_unity577

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    Unity, you have betrayed the trust of your customers completely. You removed the github repo to track licence changes, and sneakily updated the terms of service to remove the clause that users could stick to the licence of previous LTS versions.

    In 2019, after your previous controversial you put out the following statement:
    From the changes made then, the following clause was added to the licence:
    (the old licence can be found here: https://unity.com/legal/terms-of-service/software-legacy )


    You'll notice, if you click that github link, that the repo to track terms of service changes no longer exists. It was removed sometime after July 2022.

    You'll also notice, if you check the new licence, (here: https://unity.com/legal/editor-terms-of-service/software ) that on April 3rd, 2023, the licence was updated, to remove the above clause.

    You claimed in your terms that "if material modifications are made to these Terms, Unity will endeavor to notify you of the modification", and yet removed the repositiory to track these changes, along with removing the LTS clause without making that clear.
     
  21. RaventurnStefan

    RaventurnStefan

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    That is not true at all! We are 2 developers and we have over 1 million downloads and a revenue of one million+/year. But we have no profit, because we always spend the revenue on new installs. With the current installs/day we would have to pay 2000$ per day to Unity. But we can hardly pay ourselves a salary from what is left.
    Maybe it doesn't affect many, but we have to take the game off the stores on 1.1.2024 and for us our dream job is over.
    Porting our game to another engine is unfortunately not possible for us in the short time available.
     
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  22. MariuszKowalczyk

    MariuszKowalczyk

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    They promised a calculator, but now there is no word about it.
    So I will post you a simple formula:
    They probably calculated this for $70 games and it makes sense in such cases, but it makes little sense for free to play and also for low cost games.
     
  23. snan

    snan

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    I feel so bad for you devs, because you guys are so helpful and great in the Forums, but what the Execs do is utterly BS.

    None of this would be a problem, if they just went the same route as Unreal and simply sold it as "streamlining" or "simplifying" pricing structure.

    Flat fee of 5% on all Revenue after initial 200K, 500K, Million or whatever and making it necessary to have Unity Pro, after a certain Number of Downloads, that doesn't cost a fortune and succesful Devs can afford anyway.

    That's it. No PR-Disaster, simple Structure.
     
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  24. ToffeeGoat

    ToffeeGoat

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    I'm disappointed and disgusted at these changes, even the revised version makes me sick. The fact that unity would propose a change like this unironically is baffling.
    My studio will be moving off unity even if this absurd proposal is completely backpedaled on, there's no reason to trust you guys after this.
     
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  25. It is designed to help them (muddying the waters and build upon "proprietary" BS AI-engine), not you. They aren't here to help you, that's your job. Well, we were stupid to think they were here to help us in exchange for a little bit of money. Apparently it's about they are hindering us as much as possible for as much money as possible.
     
    MoonbladeStudios likes this.
  26. Wawwaa

    Wawwaa

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    This is called: Greed!.. Exporting the game into build is part of engine workflow. You can re-name it as a separate app but it is just an engine module like many others in package manager. When we make a deal to use the engine, it comes with it, not separately. Otherwise, how will I distribute my game/app to the users? It is the nature of software development that these tools are included within the development kit. When you charge for so called Unity Runtime, you charge for the export module of your development kit. Therefore, you are, even, canceling the terms of your current service agreements.

    As said, export module comes with the package. Otherwise, if this was the case years ago, I would never start to develop games with a development kit that does not have an export module or charges some fee per export. Now, of course, I can switch to another engine, since I did not like what Unity is on (it does not smell good), but then, what about my production costs? When I started production with unity, you did not say to me that you will charge me per export. That agreement I accept those times did not say anything about this and now I and my studio feel like they are trapped.

    So, many legal problems, I believe, besides a loss in trustworthiness. I believe this is what is happening, and it is called "greed". Especially, when it is very simple to solve this by just a flat royalty rate.
     
    MrDizzle26 likes this.
  27. MattCarr

    MattCarr

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    Well I watched the video and quickly got to the part where he disingenuously gave an example of a 3 man team game selling 3M copies only needing to pay Unity $80k despite using a very, very specific example of a game that presumably sold those 3M in 1 month. He also called dismissed this new $80k charge as a rounding error because of how much money he assumes they made.

    It's a cherry picked scenario and it's still dismissive of the impact.

    A game selling 3M distributed over 12 months would pay $315,000 (Unity Pro fees), but that's a much less rosy picture to paint.

    He also frames most of the video as "this won't really affect most developers" because "look at my game, I don't qualify and most developers are probably like me". The video is 100% framed to minimise the negatives of the change because he is absolutely paid by Unity. Not directly for this video I'm sure, but in many other ways regularly, and benefits from Unity's success and him maintaining a positive stance towards it.
     
  28. MrDizzle26

    MrDizzle26

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    This news is heartbreaking, our studio has been developing a game for 3 years and we plan to scale up in January 2024, the numbers in the plan completely shaft us.

    Not only that, but we at the studio constantly uninstall and reinstall the game, and get our super testers to do so. This change will force us to abandon Unity for future projects.
     
  29. wickedworx

    wickedworx

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    ...unless they change it. which they could at any point, because they seem to think they can change the terms after you've paid your license for the duration of your development, and developed/published your game.
     
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  30. Tyndareus

    Tyndareus

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    A bit off topic but you know, to bring some fun to this.

    With your new found riches can you f*cking improve plastic
     
    JohnFalconEsq likes this.
  31. dfoxforge

    dfoxforge

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    I understand more and more games is expensive to support but,

    How about you charge per install only when opt-in services are present which you provide within the games at a base level?

    You could nicely increase price per install with the more services you provide. You already charge for upgraded services which makes sense. (Monetization, Asset Bundles, Networking, etc..)

    Not a sweeping blanket fee on any innocent game.

    It's hard enough for devs with publisher cuts, steam cuts, now unity cuts. What more? We build games for years for pennies?

    What a way to kill indie development. Utterly ridiculous you should rectify this plan immediately.
     
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  32. kodra_dev

    kodra_dev

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    The timestamp where he says "sold"? I'll report youtube as misinformation.
     
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  33. redmotion_games

    redmotion_games

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    EXAMPLE: I release a game for free on Google Play and Appstore. It goes a bit viral because a YouTuber played and I get 1,000,000 installs.
    I average $0.10 per user over the year. That is $100,000 income.

    Do I pay anything to Unity in this case? NO = PROFIT.

    If I average $0.60 per user over the year. That is $600,000 income. 800,000 installs x $0.20 = $160,000 to unity. = PROFIT.

    However, this works out as 20% revenue share for a freemium mobile game. Which is too much and I wouldn't argue with anyone trying to switch to Godot or Unreal over this situation.

    But this is the Personal Version.

    You would be crazy if, after reaching say $150,000 revenue, you didn't switch to the Pro version which would then shift the limits to 1 million for lifetime installs and $1,000,000 revenue and you would save yourself thousands. = Extra PROFIT. (But not as much as a week ago)

    Obviously it's another hoop in a seemingly endless row of hoops to jump through but for most Unity users, it is a gain NOT a loss.

     
  34. Alahmnat

    Alahmnat

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    After thinking about it for a while, I genuinely think that this stupid “runtime fee” is a lawyerly attempt to end-run a royalty structure around their years of marketing themselves as not having any revenue share requirements, like this somehow clears some letter-of-the-law bar for “we definitely haven’t reneged on our advertised product offerings, we’re just adding an unrelated surcharge!”

    I made a Comcast fees joke about 40-odd pages back and it seems more apt the more I think about it.
     
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  35. mhernandez88

    mhernandez88

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    Not true,
    Q: If a user reinstalls/redownloads a game / changes their hardware, will that count as multiple installs?
    A: Yes. The creator will need to pay for all future installs. The reason is that Unity doesn’t receive end-player information, just aggregate data.
     
  36. MihkelT

    MihkelT

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  37. hurleybird

    hurleybird

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    Quintessential bad faith.
     
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  38. laja

    laja

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    False. You pay 20c per install, not per copy sold. Please check the updated Q/A provided by Unity, this is clarified. The creator will pay per install.
     
  39. manutoo

    manutoo

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    Every single Unity dev is affected because it creates insecurity about possible future TOS changes.

    Every single Unity dev is affected because Unity doesn't explain how they will calculate the revenue per game. If it's a self-declaration, then a ton of devs won't report their earning. And if it's Unity who "guess" the revenue like they "guess" the number of installs, who says they won't come after someone with no revenue at all ?

    This whole plan is just plain maniacal nonsense, and only a fool would want to stay with Unity now.

    So that every single Unity dev, except a very few ones like yourself I guess...:D (or dev that don't publish stuff)
     
  40. krzychuwr1_unity

    krzychuwr1_unity

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    Suddenly now when I talk to some game dev friends and we talk about using Unity vs other engine, I'm getting similar vibes to when discussing PHP back when I worked in web dev a few years ago - "yeah, a lot of projects are stuck with it, but it's best to move away from it asap" or at least "maybe I should start learning other engines"
     
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  41. altepTest

    altepTest

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    the author of that video has no idea what this is about. he superficially looked at that chart assumed that 200k are "sold copies" (around minute 3.15 of the video he reveals that part) and then builds upon on this wrong premise.

    is not 200k SOLD is INSTALLS (demos, web access, reinstall, free games)

    that is because unity want your money if you monetize your game trough patreon for example where the game is free and continuously updated but the user pay a monthly fee to the author.

    so they had to include the FREE installs.

    I don't think the youtube author is an unity shill as they accuse him in the comments of the video, he just was too superficial. i hope he creates a new video and recognize this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  42. lishengshun01

    lishengshun01

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    Unity would just be dead after this, I normally don't comment on Unity forum but holy S***..

    They don't even realize the damage done to us Unity Developers.. We'd literally have way less salary if we keep up with this S***, nobody's hiring Unity Developers anymore pretty much.

    And yeah, if we use another engine, the amount of experience we have with Unity is down to waste.
    So you literally got demoted if so, today I'm a Senior Developer, tomorrow I'm a Unreal Engine fresher.
     
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  43. ByteStormGmbH

    ByteStormGmbH

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    For us, it is the last straw that breaks the camel's back. We have been toying with the idea of switching completely to another engine for some time. For us there are many reasons, but one of the main reasons is the discontinuation of the version plan "Plus" and the unplannability for more than 1 year. This shows that the cloud pricing model is now attractive and Unity thinks it can get away with it.
    We are currently examining :
    - UE
    - Godot 4.1
    - Stride 4.1
    All three offer the mobile part we need. Whereby "Stride" comes closest to Unity in many respects in terms of appearance and doing.

    If Unity continues like this, they will end up like Borland (Delphi)... They never listened to their customers and solved bugs that were most relevant for them.
     
  44. Noisecrime

    Noisecrime

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    Wow, that is impressive, at least from a quick glance, would have to study it in detail to make sure its correct based on our known assumptions. Seriously amazing work and thanks for sharing.

    The only thing i'd like to see are the fees broken down over a year, with monthly predictions in sales, but no idea how easy/hard that would be to automate and certainly not worth doing at present - though totally would be something I would expect if Unity provide their own calculator.

    Unfortunately what it shows is just how insanely complicated this all is, that I feel it would be easy to make a mistake in the algorithms or just enter my own data and get very skewed results.
     
  45. Binary_Blitz

    Binary_Blitz

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  46. altepTest

    altepTest

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    around 3.12 to 3.17

    he said

    "selling 200k copies"

    but don't report him to youtube. he has the right to be wrong and maybe he will make a new video clarifying this
     
  47. unity_028AE3B1F1BC5DECE8AD

    unity_028AE3B1F1BC5DECE8AD

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    Every Unity team support and forum member right now:
    giphy (1).gif
     
  48. r033

    r033

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    Damn I wonder if with all that money you will stop ignoring bug reports and marking everything as "won't fix". I wonder if VS Code integration will ever work again. Wondering if this money will finally fix vsync and crashes in macos builds. Maybe it was because your CEO wasn't rich enough.
     
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  49. MihkelT

    MihkelT

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    Here's a real world example. Game costs 5 USD.
    Steam takes 30%
    Publisher takes 40%
    Remaining is 2.1 USD
    Various expenses
    Remaining is 0.5 USD
    Now unity takes 0.2 per install.
    Even after 1 install, the developer loses 40% (0.2 from 0.5) of their profits.

    How many games are there that have a 5-10 USD price? All these developers will be hit super hard if they are making any money at all. 200k USD a year is like 1-2 person team. Any bigger team will be hit. These people are not millionaires, they live ok-ish sometimes and sometimes struggle.
     
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  50. MattCarr

    MattCarr

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    You are mistaken. The threshold is a one-off thing. I used their spreadsheets example of the launch year where 1,000,000 "threshold" units could be discounted so it's just 1.5M installs distributed equally over 12 months. That's also why I just tried to dismiss the first 1M threshold installs as they really aren't that relevant for the actual calculations.

    The monetary threshold (e.g. Pro's $1M over the past 12 months) is an ongoing amount that needs to be met to be charged for a month's installs, but once the install count threshold has been hit at any point in history, that is forever crossed and all future installs that take place within months where the monetary threshold is crossed will be charged.

    So for example if you made a game in 2020 that had 1 million installs at this point in time, and it's always making over $1M in revenue over any 12 month period, you will be charged for every install that happens from Jan 1 2024. Each month you will be charged $0.15 for the first 100,000 installs that occur. So if you had 2.5M installs in 2024 and they were evenly distributed each month you would be paying $0.15 for 1,200,000 installs for the year and $0.075 for the remainder of the installs (1,300,000).

    Edit: I didn't realise you were the calculator author when I replied to this, sorry. Hence the "their spreadsheet", etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
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