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Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 22, 2023.

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  1. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    What ? O_O
     
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  2. cLick1338

    cLick1338

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    Even if this is all completely reverted, the damage is done.
    Irreversible breach of trust and a big stain on credibility.
    Already months into a Unity project (and years of prior experience). Trying to push through this (likely) last project will be a very bitter time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
    pantang, JBR-games, Procyonx_ and 9 others like this.
  3. Invertex

    Invertex

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    Also, is this implying that Steam is the one that is going to have to pay for installs? If so, that is going to bring up even more problems.

     
    guoboism, Ultroman, Komikom and 10 others like this.
  4. sakus

    sakus

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    This. I suppose there's no real info yet on what the new plans will and will not have? Do we need pro to get rid of the damn splash screen?

    My Unity Plus just renewed at the start of the month, I suppose there's no getting out of it even with all these huge changes?
     
  5. Misohappy

    Misohappy

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    i watched a video on youtube where the guy said he asked the head of this change and the answer was yes
     
    Trisibo and kristoof like this.
  6. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    But remove the Piracy problem I guess
     
  7. gui_dev

    gui_dev

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    Even if they retire this pricing per-install model (which doesn't have any sense) it will be very risky for anyone to build a mobile business around this engine.
     
    angiemon, Astha666, JBR-games and 5 others like this.
  8. Spellbook

    Spellbook

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    We're in the same boat -- Exclusively Unity dev shop for 10+ years and tens-of-millions of installs across our products. If you count installs on emulators we have hundreds-of-millions of installs. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is going to impact us going forward, but the lack of clarity is highly concerning. Having tens-of-millions of installs does not mean we've made millions of dollars. It just means there's tons of devices out there and lots of people will try installing a free game.
     
  9. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    I just read a Twitter post the other day that a game was *banned* because they included or try to include some sort of GPT chat system.

    Oh well.. what was this about AI included for free? lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  10. JorgeGameDev

    JorgeGameDev

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    There is no way to describe this other than as greedy and disgusting, and it's bound to be breaking privacy laws if you're tracking how many times the runtime has been installed in different machines and tracking user installs. There's no reason for any developer to continue recommending or using Unity after they're done with their current production project when all other alternatives and engines are more stable, more accessible, open-source, and less privacy invasive. And making these changes retroactively is even more absurd and likely on the grounds for legal action.

    This honestly feels like such an executive level decision by people who are clearly just fumbling around with no idea or foresight about how the games industry works that it's depressing. Wondering how the technical and marketing teams are reacting to this on internal channels because I'm pretty sure at some point someone had to have tried to warn directors of how much of a terrible decision this was. But yet, decided to stick to it in a desperate attempt to produce interest in stockholders and to produce profit charts out of thin air while killing all of the remaining good will the engine and brand still had with their developers on the long-run.

    Were any of the following scenarios and conditions even considered when deciding to go forward with this?
    • What happens with charity bundles? Why would we bother bundling our game up when it'd give us an extra cost per copy now?
    • When streaming and game pass deals are becoming more prevalent in the industry, why sign up for those if it's going to introduce a huge cost in installs?
    • Why would publishers sign games even want to sign Unity when they've just become a cost liability?
    • What happens if the game is pirated? Are those copies accounted too?
    • What happens with demos? Are those accounted as initializations too?
    • Are reinstalls accounted? Are DLCs downloads considered installs?
    If this decision isn't reverted as is there's no other way to look at Unity other than it having reached the end of the line for all industry sizes and markets, but even if you do, this has been such a huge blow to morale and developer trust across the board. If you're an indie developer and are at the end of production like we are and can't afford the time or money to change engines now, I'm wishing you the best because these are going to be some rough months ahead. But for our own sake we really have no other choice but to consider and start transitioning other alternatives and go with actually stable and open-source engines that won't just rug pull developers like Unity has just done time and time again.

    Also while we're on the topic of pay-per-install don't forget the footnotes that you now need to have a persistent internet connection to use Unity Personal going forward and that they're also retiring the Unity Plus plan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  11. p13t3rm

    p13t3rm

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    CEO John Riccitiello calling developers "F***ing idiots" if they didn't integrate micro transactions and monetization should have been the clear sign we were headed in this direction.
    Unity is lighting their platform on fire all for higher profit margins in the short term.
     
  12. Invertex

    Invertex

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    Hey Unity, since when is Gambling not "gaming"? Gaming is literally a term that was used for gambling before videogames were a thing.
     
  13. levelappstudios

    levelappstudios

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    This is unaffordable for mobile games, hopefully you have an average income of $0.02 per user.
     
  14. gui_dev

    gui_dev

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    Now they will do something like they did with the analytics, they will charge 0.10 per install instead of 0.15 tryting to make it look like a bargain (Hey! We have heard you!)
     
  15. stonstad

    stonstad

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  16. Mike-Geig

    Mike-Geig

    Unity Technologies

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    Yes, that needs to be fixed! That is not a reoccurring thing
     
  17. madpolydev

    madpolydev

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    So what if I have a free to play game that uses ads combined with in game cosmetics that crosses the 200K threshold and download however the ratio between people who end up paying and people who download the game for free and never end up paying is Huge? That way the developer will pretty much get eaten up.
     
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  18. Mike-Geig

    Mike-Geig

    Unity Technologies

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    I thought the same, and then I did the math myself. At a very low threshold, per install ends up being a much better deal than rev share.
     
    DragonCoder and kdchabuk like this.
  19. pikminscience

    pikminscience

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    DARK MODE 2.0 NOW WITH PRO

    Seriously, what a mess.
     
    angiemon, Ultroman, Astha666 and 8 others like this.
  20. minotaur2k16

    minotaur2k16

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    As a developer who has been super loyal to Unity for the past 7 years and has already developed and published 3 Unity-based games so far, I am painfully disappointed by the way this company is behaving. This new pricing model is utterly ridiculous, for all the reasons that the rest of the people on this thread have explained better than I could.

    Furthermore, trying to apply these policies to games that have already been released in the past is an absolute breach of trust. It can even lead to a situation, with games that have been already in the market for a while and only sell well when heavily discounted, where each sale ends up causing a loss to the developer.

    What's even worse, is that in situations where a game is released as part of a bundle, it might end up getting tens or hundreds of thousands of installs, with the dev getting only cents per each copy that was distributed. How's this going to work if they have to pay $0.20 per install?

    And finally there's of course the concern of piracy (do I need to pay Unity $0.20 every time some kid pirates my game?!) and the potential for bad actors to abuse this analytics system to cause virtually unlimited financial harm to developers with minimal effort.

    I think you all will need to reconsider this move. The sad part is that, even if you do, it will be hard to trust Unity as a company again.
     
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  21. MD_Reptile

    MD_Reptile

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    Mike this isn't sustainable for indies like me on mobile where huge portions of our installs result in near zero income. This would be the end of my ability to continue using unity in production.
     
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  22. adamgolden

    adamgolden

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    1. What about WebGL (as there's no such thing as installs - and no way to track same user/refreshes/etc., as many people have disabled tracking and/or have blockers, multiple people share same IPs, tracking may even be illegal in some countries etc.). I noticed others ask already, but since we've yet to see an answer - bump.

    2. I make $0 from using Unity but am a Plus subscriber, so I will just go back to paying nothing at all when it's time to renew. Too bad, because the only benefits were saving my players from 3 seconds or whatever of startup time by disabling the splash, and as motivation to spend more time using Unity because I'm paying for it each month. Nothing about Pro interests me so upgrading is pointless unless I legally require it, which I won't any time soon if ever.
     
  23. Marcos-Elias

    Marcos-Elias

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    Why not take 5% based on the monthly revenue, like Unreal?

    The CEO should leave the company... What a crazy idea/approval. This will completely kill a lot of free to play games and make studios switch to other engines.

    Also IMHO this should NOT be applied to already released games. It’s not fair changing all the business rules during the game. You never know what will come after…
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  24. BTStone

    BTStone

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    You mean the whole announcement right? Pretty please? :oops:
     
  25. Thygrrr

    Thygrrr

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    I read this and...


    Is this some sort of out-of-season april fools joke?

    The potpourri of "F*** you, smaller teams" in that announcement has got to be the most tone-deaf thing I heard in the games industry since "don't you guys have phones?"

    It's ok to charge a flat fee here - Unreal's model is actually quite toxic, too - but... seriously, 20 USD cents per install? are you for real? That's beyond many teams' entire UA spend and older games in maintenance mode may not even have that LTV per new user!

    First I though the emerging market fee was the real fee, that could have been OK (except for, you know, emerging markets, where $0.10 LTV are quite realistic for a top tier game, giving Unity a flat 20% of that is out of the question)

    Your price changes are hitting Unity Personal harder than Unity Enterprise means you are squeezing out your junior teams and small developers. If anything, the pricing should be the other way around.

    And then retiring Unity Plus, without replacement, basically TRIPLING my Plus organization's licensing fees ON TOP of the coming install fees.

    Yeah, I'll ship everything that doesn't need ECS with Godot from now on, and probably make my ECS games FOSS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  26. gui_dev

    gui_dev

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    Each developer studio should be in charge to decide how and how much to monetize each user, not you.
    Price per install for a 9.99$ paid game? (Fair enough, as long as it is a legit purchased game)
    Price per install for a free mobile game? You are basically forcing devs to get at least 0.15$ for that install

    Unreal senior devs salaries are going to skyrocket right now, better start hiring...
     
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  27. forestrf

    forestrf

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    The worst thing about this update is that it shows you can't trust Unity as they will change the rules of the game at a moment notice without any regard to their customer's needs. An unreliable partner at best which keeps on making bad decisions.
     
  28. Invertex

    Invertex

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    Mike, I am sorry but you are clearly not accounting for all the variables here. What exactly is your math with this?
    Everyone's profit per-install is going to be drastically different based on numerous factors.

    A select few type of games will earn more with this deal, sure, especially gambling games (which are already exempt), but for so many developers this seems to ultimately screw them over.
     
  29. BTStone

    BTStone

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    Depends on the rev share, right? Could you elaborate what numbers you used?
     
  30. unity_1D14A70C0043D4349DE7

    unity_1D14A70C0043D4349DE7

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    gonna need some effective numbers here
     
  31. pillowfightio_conrad

    pillowfightio_conrad

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    I mean, billing is reoccurring, just not being billed for previous installs. You (or the platform according to the FAQ) will be billed monthly for new installs. Just not old installs. Repeating this without clarification is only muddying the waters.
     
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  32. Misohappy

    Misohappy

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    i feel like i should jump ship to unreal or something else, after spending alot of money in the unity asset store and spending the last 4 months on my project my gut feeling is saying to get out before they screw us even more.
     
  33. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    This is a mistake.

    and you will need to backtrack it - whoever the idiot is that is pushing this, won't be the one to have to take it back...

    You are going down the Unreal route... we all saw that dumpster fire...

    do you not understand how these things work. I may not be the publisher of the app, do I have to explain to my clients that they have to expect bills in the future for their app? Fees I can't predict?

    Are you people demented? We already saw this play out, it is a nightmare for all freelancers and B2B producers. It complicates all relationships, it increases paperwork and can introduce exploits and a bunch of crap.

    Unity seems desperate for cash, this is ridiculous and pointless.
     
  34. Gigacee

    Gigacee

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    I am a very small freelance developer.
    I am completely below the threshold announced at this news, but my client will not allow me to deliver a game with a very, very nice MADE WITH UNITY splash screen.
    It is a huge pain for me to pay for the Pro plan just to get rid of the splash screen.
    Is Unity Technologies listening to my screams?
     
  35. vivian-a

    vivian-a

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    I'd like to see this math, because almost all the math I've done says the opposite in any F2P/Mobile environment.
     
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  36. Hellwaiker

    Hellwaiker

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    Huh, so this is how you collapse a corporation on itself like a dying star.
     
  37. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    Well I'm just thinking right now but my current guess :
    - For bundles and stuff, the way to go would probably to be a custom version (because it's by game)
    - The entreprise which deliver the runtime is the one with the cost, so the deal is probably gonna change or simply won't be possible.
    - X
    - The idea is no because you're not the one to deliver it (even if I don't know how they could tell, because the game signature should be the same)
    - Same as bundles
    - They speak about first initialization.

    In fact, let's say they're tracking is perfect. There will still have the free to play games or refunds, where player just come to check... so it's a pure lost.
     
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  38. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    That's pretty horrible
     
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  39. gui_dev

    gui_dev

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    This is bad even for freelancers, no client in their mind will want to develop games using Unity anymore. It is just too risky if you are not able to monetize it enough.
     
  40. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    You guys already applied for the award for the worst communicated price model change ever?
     
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  41. Nyarlathothep

    Nyarlathothep

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    Care to share your calculations for that?
     
  42. BTStone

    BTStone

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    In other news: Steam, Playstation, Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple and Google ban the upload of games developed with the Unity Engine

    lol what?
     
  43. sacb0y

    sacb0y

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    Please answer my question about demos and WebGL. I don't hate this idea but as things are explained it's bank breaking for me.
     
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  44. Terazilla

    Terazilla

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    The fact we didn't need to track bullshit like this was a major unspoken selling point. One that didn't get talked about much but which any professional user was extremely aware of.

    Unity's already been burning their goodwill on a bunch of useless features that we'll never use, this particular change is probably actually the line that'll get me moving to another engine. I mean, look at the rest of that blog post where they talk about AI and cloud storage S*** that I don't need and don't want.

    You make decisions like this Unity, I'm absolutely not using you for version control, I promise. God knows what nickel-and-dime bullshit will arrive for that a year from now.
     
    pantang, milox777, glenneroo and 9 others like this.
  45. Thygrrr

    Thygrrr

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    This is the question we should all be asking. There's no way this is safe for smaller teams without a legal team.
    You get "install-bombed" just once by a kiddy with a botnet, and you have to take out a loan on your home.
     
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  46. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    And all of this from a company that does not even manage to have variable font-sizes in their editors to support people with bad eye-sight. Since years.
     
  47. Artem_Korotenko

    Artem_Korotenko

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    So, developers with title you considered "successful" will be charged for every reinstall from their own QA-department and every cracked APK installation from the web?
     
  48. takishibe

    takishibe

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    You seriously come here as a Unity official and drop ZERO numbers with your statement? As out of touch as this whole policy change.
     
  49. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

    A Moon Shaped Bool Unity Legend

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    This is a depressing announcement and needs to be reversed ASAP.
     
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  50. valentinwinkelmann

    valentinwinkelmann

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    After 10 years, a final reason to turn your back on unity and use another engine. It is sad how unity has turned away from the meaning of its name over the last years and especially since the IPO.
     
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