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Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 22, 2023.

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  1. MrDuoQIng

    MrDuoQIng

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    I can't imagine how they made this decision,One day you will pay for your arrogance
     
  2. nikefootbag

    nikefootbag

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    After 8 years with Unity i’m switching to Godot, so much so i’m supporting them like many other ex-Unity users are today.
     

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  3. hurleybird

    hurleybird

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    Hard to say what the internal politics are, but yes, almost certainly unlikely. More likely that he is canned after the financial repercussions of this incident materialize rather than anything proactive. No harm in advocating though.
     
  4. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

    Volunteer Moderator Moderator

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    Oh great, they're going to take that as a challenge. ;) "New terms: now Unity is pay per click! Every time a gamer presses a button in your game, you owe us 1¢."

    --Eric
     
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  5. Siwone

    Siwone

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    This just sounds like Game Pass, Steam and all other platforms will no longer be taking on Unity games if they're on the hook for paying based on install counts.
    I think it's pretty f*cking clear at this point that THIS isn't the right value exchange.

    The only way I see Unity as an engine surviving this is if Unity as a company shuts down and sells the engine to some private company that will take on the development of it. It is very clear that going public and trying to satisfy investors doesn't work for long-term viability of a game engine.
     
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  6. ZigMarch

    ZigMarch

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    Why do I have to hope that people who buy my game don't install it?
    Unity and Unity users are stupid.
     
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  7. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    In my inbox, reading the announcement.
     
  8. grrava

    grrava

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    I have always been a Unity advocate and enjoyed working with it a lot. I made quite some games with it. I also teach 200+ students every year in Unity.

    It saddens me this happend and I hope it gets completely cancelled. If not I have no choice but Unreal. And I don't like Unreal at all.
     
  9. Laicasaane

    Laicasaane

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    A dark period for the Unity community. Suddenly my Unity open-sourced libraries become useless because it will soon come the day when no one is interested in them anymore.
     
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  10. Tom_Timothy

    Tom_Timothy

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    This is TGEA (Torque Game Engine Advanced) all over again. like back in 2016 or so.
     
  11. SpaceDoubt

    SpaceDoubt

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    Who are you helping?
     
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  12. impheris

    impheris

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    are you 100% sure? i'm asking because i have a project right now, for android, i will sell my game for less than 5$, not IAP not ads, personal license
     
  13. FlaSh-G

    FlaSh-G

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    As someone who worked and works for F2P game studios, after 15 years of using Unity, it's now really time for me to get into godot and/or unreal. Just to be safe. Because no matter what the actual numbers are, this move is massively eroding the trust that is needed for a company to commit on making their games with Unity. It's just way too risky to partner up with a company that uses installs as a metric for engine fees and then applies such massive changes retroactively. Who knows what changes you will come up with in the future that affect the games we will be working on for the next few years.

    As someone who wants to stay able to find jobs in the industry, Unity just became a nice-to-have rather than the go-to.
     
  14. MattCarr

    MattCarr

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    Their response there is just another example of how this wasn't thought out at all. They can't demand money from Microsoft or other storefronts for distributing games when those companies didn't agree to the TOS that the game developer did. They've lost the plot.

    Also they say that sort've thing there, but then clearly state it's the developers that are paying in other responses.

    They don't know what their message is and now we all have to sit around and wait for the big brains at the top of Unity to realise they messed up and come up with the new fantastically clarified version of this in the next 1-2 days that will still be garbage, but they'll present it as beneficial to us and come apologetically with hat and hand and expect us to accept it.
     
  15. meeelting

    meeelting

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    This new deal is unthinkable. I'm moving on. I put 10 years into this engine, I got my whole tech stack built around it. Even if could somehow make this work, what happens a year down the line when you people wanna up the financials a bit more? What if I want to move on gamepass, will you take my entire earning? It's a rough industry as it is, even more so in the current economy!

    Is it more than having to relearn my toolset into a new engine? With these new costs, and no idea of knowing whats incoming... I'm thinking its not.

    I've lost my trust in Unity.
     
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  16. impheris

    impheris

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    for what i understand, you only need to pay for the paid game, the free game is not making any money to you, so you do not have to pay, that is what i understand
     
  17. HellsPlumber

    HellsPlumber

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    Charging per install comes with a ton of potential issues;
    1. Malicious users just hate-install a game to bankrupt a developer (Reinstalls get charged, too)
    2. Pirated games will likely cost the developer to install
    3. Tracking installs may be an invasion of privacy for the end user, we don't know how they're tracking installs
    4. How are Unity tracking revenue? Will they count a developers income as a whole such as Patreon, Ko-Fi, etc?
    It's just a very messy plan that's clearly just a way for them to drain even more money from developers that use their engine. This is all on top of their existing monthly payments.

    My current project will be the last I'll be developing with Unity.
    Using their engine is clearly a financial risk to indie developers and it's difficult to see them as a serious competitor anymore.
     
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  18. RunicPixels

    RunicPixels

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    Q: What's going to stop us being charged for pirated copies of our games?
    A: We do already have fraud detection practices in our Ads technology which is solving a similar problem, so we will leverage that know-how as a starting point. We recognize that users will have concerns about this and we will make available a process for them to submit their concerns to our fraud compliance team.

    This basically reads as "that's your own issue, sort it out". Well, guess there's no better time than now to learn Godot.
     
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  19. Glader

    Glader

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    I feel it's so much worse than that. I feel like it's only the begining, they will chase more revenue and growth. Where else can they squeeze it from without providing services we want to pay for? By retroactively tacking on taxes, fees, and costs to existing titles. By nickle and diming us in more ways to come. They are only going to come up with more fees and sometimes not even for something new! Just a new fee on something that already exists such as the Unity3D runtime lol.

    Not to mention these new fees will be sudden and unexpected and worst of all retroactive! Pray they do not edit the agreement further I guess.
     
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  20. tachyon-particle

    tachyon-particle

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    To all devs, keep the spirit alive ...

    Godot is a cross-platform, free, and open-source game engine ...

    Help grow the ecosystem and making it an industry standard for the future!

    I wish you all the best!
     
  21. manutoo

    manutoo

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    It'll happen if the stock noticeably goes down.

    The stock will go down if other stores like SideQuest make similar announcements to the one shown in a previous post.

    Steam will likely do one soon enough.

    January 1st 2024 will likely not happen.

    This is war.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  22. NullEgo

    NullEgo

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    Step 1) Buy stock in Unity Technologies
    Step 2) Buy Unity game on Steam
    Step 3) Never actually run the game
    Step 4) Set up a script to repeatedly install and uninstall game for a month
    Step 5) Refund the game because you have under 2 hours of play time
    Step 6) Repeat until stock price is high enough in value
    Step 7) Sell stock

    I really want to meet the troglodyte who must've thought this pricing model was a revolutionarily good idea. How can you have so little understanding of the technology you are supporting and basic economics.
     
  23. HellsPlumber

    HellsPlumber

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    Exactly. Even if they reverse this the damage has been done. Every update from them is worse and worse news for developers.

    The fact that such a damaging change can effect existing games is terrifying. Knowing they're capable of things like this destroys any trust. As you said, they could make another change in future when they want more money and just decide you owe them x-amount if they see fit and financially ruin you. They've proven they're willing to.
     
  24. HandsMechanical

    HandsMechanical

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    Lmao Ritichello is an out of touch clown and this is an appallingly stupid decision even compared to Unity's already awful track record of decision making and corporate strategy over the last few years. Nice knowing you Unity engine.
     
  25. XEDORA

    XEDORA

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    Wow.
    I never saw a company desperate for an alternative to itself.
     
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  26. grofie

    grofie

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    Can only agree with the other people posting here. Time to change the engine.

    It is a shame, the stock-driven turbo-capitalism only aiming for the quick dollar now will also destroy Unity. It just does not make sense in the long run.

    Maybe it is not a problem for big Studios, 20 Cent on a 60 Dollar title does not hurt. But what about people selling games in the app stores for a bug? No chance of getting profitable anymore. Besides all the other problems people raised.
     
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  27. Davidnovarro

    Davidnovarro

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    My game generates 1 mln downloads per month with 0.01$ per install.

    How my company is going to exist?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  28. HitsuSan

    HitsuSan

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    Next up: pay Unity 0.001$ for every frame per second rendered in engine for every user...
    The questions would be like:
    -Do we have to pay even for the fps when the Unity logo is on screen??
    -The moment you press quit still counts if the app takes a some time to close?
    The answers would be like:
    -Yes of course, actually the first 5 million fps are 0.002$
    -Still counts, make small games if you want them to quit faster. Also you pay for Unity Pro you can limit your fps up to 10 so you won't have to pay as much.

    See you in 5 years when this post sounds better than what's actually happening with Unity pricing ^^
     
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  29. JTAU

    JTAU

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    Really disappointed with this change, there is so much uncertainty and the per-install thing seems completely open to abuse.

    I have some questions

    1) How does unity define one game? For example how does it know "this is the demo for GameA" and this is the full game of "GameA"? Is it by the executable name? Do you have to register your game somewhere?

    2) How does unity know when two games are different, is a sequel counted as a separate game? "GameA" and "GameA: The Return"?

    3) How can unity possibly determine if a runtime is a pirated copy, a demo, or a full game? Most games don't have DRM, even on Steam most games use basic authentication. So how on earth can unity determine whether something has been pirated, or legitimately installed?

    4) If Unity can't track re-installs due to anonymous data, how does it determine what "One Install" is, and how does it know not to charge again when someone opens that same runtime a second time on the same device?

    5) Does unity treat patches/updates to games as new installs?

    6) Does unity treat different branches as new installs? For example on Steam players can switch to different branches on a game which does an update. How will Unity make sure you aren't charged for an extra install there?

    This per install aspect has so many potential flaws.
     
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  30. Ahab_

    Ahab_

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    People who believe that sanctions or the intervention of the European Union will solve the problem are mistaken. Often, large tech companies absorb these penalties and persist in their illegal practices, as they still reap profits at the end of the day.
    Is Unity a big tech company? Don't think so. Will the EU come to the rescue? Don't think so. Is this the final state of this situation? Don't think so. Will I check and see if other engines are worth the change? Totally.
     
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  31. shaneharris

    shaneharris

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    Hi, I'm the CEO of SideQuest.

    I just want to say here and now that my platform does not authorize Unity to use any data obtained from us to determine a per install fee. Our downloads are referred to as "clicks" on our site, and do not constitute a download or install of the game. Any data you obtain from our platform for the purposes of determining these absurd install fee calculations will be met with a lawsuit instantly.

    Stick that up your pipe and smoke it.
     
  32. NicBischoff

    NicBischoff

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    I’ve been using Unity since Unity 3 - that’s 13 years. I’ve paid for most of that time.

    Once we finish the current game we are shifting to Unreal. It’s going to cost us a year in time to switch.

    I’m least pissed off about the price increase for pro but more so for the insane unilateral license change. I’ve lost all trust in this company and I’m not willing to peg hundreds of thousands of dollars in dev time on a company that can alter its terms on a whim.

    This has gone the same way as Autodesk and it just forced everyone elsewhere.
     
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  33. Komikom

    Komikom

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    In the end, this is completly unenforceable.

    1) Developer makes and sells a game
    2) Unity will charge the developer Runtime Fee
    3) Developer disputes this fee and takes it to the court
    4) Court will require Unity reveal they systems, how they acquire the numbers
    5) Court will reveal that Unity is ilegally collecting user end-data without said end-user agreement
    6) Runtime Fee is not enforceable
    ...
    12) CEO gets fired
     
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  34. Woolf

    Woolf

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    And now the funny thing. I'm from Russia. And I don't get anything from installations in the EU and the USA because of sanctions, but I earn money from installations in China, India and Russia.
    Does this mean that I will need to turn off the "richest countries"?
     
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  35. jdg23

    jdg23

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    Let's say we make an interactive app for a museum and we get paid 200 K USD to develop that app.

    That app makes 10M installs.

    Do we pay the fees ? Who pays ? Us or our client the Museum ??

    With Personal or Plus that would cost more than a 1M USD so way more than what we earned making the app and there is just no way the Client will accept to pay that fee on top of the dev budget.

    With Pro, we pay 180K USD, wich again is just not feasible in that case.

    Or we pay nothing because it's not a "game" ??
     
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  36. DungDajHjep

    DungDajHjep

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    Nice !
     
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  37. crol

    crol

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    But after that you will pay for installs.
    400K USD if its 2 mil installs :D
     
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  38. tanadol

    tanadol

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    Am I right?
    1) The game is sold for $2 each
    2) player installs it on 11 devices.
    3) Now Unity receives your entire sales revenue, plus an additional $0.2 that you owe them. :eek:
     
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  39. Davidnovarro

    Davidnovarro

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  40. Siwone

    Siwone

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    That's a nice clarification to have. I guess I'll go with Unreal for now.
     
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  41. Ninjaneer

    Ninjaneer

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    Hey, John. Yes you. John Riccitiello.

    Step the F*** down and stop ruining people's livelihoods.
     
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  42. giorgos_gs

    giorgos_gs

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    I wish it could do consoles.
     
  43. Ahab_

    Ahab_

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    Oh man, godot data in google trends in the region of China and how it changed recently really shows something... You gotta keep flooding the android store with those ad-packed games no matter how ;)
     
  44. MoonbladeStudios

    MoonbladeStudios

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    wow...
    When Riccitiello joined Unity there were jokes about pricing by the number of times you will open the game engine. Well s**t!

    But lt's be honest, this has soooo many problems is hard to imagine how they thought it was a good idea:
    - no consultation with the developers (maybe big companies?!).
    - a lot of unexplained stuff left out and a lot of confusion
    - install counting has a lot of problems: review bombing can really hurt the developer by installing and uninstalling, piracy can hurt the developer, mobile games may earn less than the price per install;
    - another pricing model change in a relatively short time. Unreal is 5% for as long i can remember. Unity changes waaay to much and retroactively I might add..
    - dropping plus is a very bad decision. we don't have an option between personal and pro (which may be waaay to expensive).
    - they charge old shipped games. i'm now a lawyer but this seams like a contract breach. they might be a lot of legal trouble with this pricing policy.
    - Unity will have to send data and can't be deactivated. is that legal?! will this mean that games will be pissed off? From what i know, the user must have the possibility to NOT send anonymous data. google, MS etc have that. how will Unity comply with the EU / USA etc laws?! Am I missing something ? because i don't think they can.

    They probably choose this model to be cheaper than Unreal and it is IF the install are counted correctly, piracy is eliminated from the counter and it's install per game not in total (that's the case from what I understand). of course for mobile games theres a different story and again a big IF. Big companie for desktop and console , maybe even mobile will stay because the cost is lower than Unreal, but mobile game devs (who are the majority in Unity's case) are very likely to leave....

    They will probably clarify some stuff, change the pricing a little after the backlash and that's it. It not the first time we have this. But that itself proves that they don't know the people they are selling the product to, which is really bad.

    I really hate Epic, but there's a humble bundle with some books on it and... well... i'll give it a try. Probably will not change (will just drop my Plus subscription and use Personal), but still looking at another engine seams to be a good idea, unfortunately.
     
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  45. HandsMechanical

    HandsMechanical

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    And when a person decides they have a grudge against you or your game, they can just write a script to deploy virtual devices/VMs with a randomized vpn connection, install the game, tear it down and do it all over again and then leaves it running for a month and racks up thousands or tens of thousands of malicious installs that are fundamentally indistinguishable from any other install?

    Everything about this is just utterly braindead and shows how completely Riccitiello and co misunderstand their users and market. Which was already obvious with the acquisition, focus on AI, his general track record of making idiotic statements etc, but good lord. Just nuked any scrap of goodwill or trust your actual users had left. What a shame.
     
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  46. goodspeed2012

    goodspeed2012

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    This NEW pricing system will destroy Unity's developer ecosystem.
    • Unity's greatest strength is a community built by outstanding individual developers who openly share various technologies and resources. This pricing system will drive many excellent developers away.
    • This pricing system makes developers wary of 100,000 installs/month from the moment they start using Unity, because everyone knows that 100,000 or even 1,000,000 app installs or downloads might not bring in much revenue. What it destroys is the hope and aspirations of the developers.
    • The right approach is to help developers make money, and then take a share of the earnings.
    • App download fraud is easy to commit, but tracking and identifying fraudulent downloads is difficult.
     
  47. impheris

    impheris

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    if your game is free, you are not making money, so you do not have to pay, i guess you need to think and do the maths before making your game f2p
     
  48. Murmer

    Murmer

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    No, you forgot to calculate income tax and platform cut... It works out worse than that.
     
  49. milox777

    milox777

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    I sincerely hope this is some bad late April Fool's joke. This is absolutely insane greedy scheming to fleece indie devs. This is what you get when you hire former EA CEO. Not even Adobe, Microsoft or BMW would come up with such a thing. What's next, charging for opened windows? Maybe charge for lines of code written with Visual Studio with your "proprietary data model"?

    Absolutely revolting and a punch in the gut to over a decade old Unity users like me. To extort so many small indie devs that made your engine popular in such a way... As we weren't paying enough already in all sorts of platform fees and taxes and as if business wasn't hard enough already.

    Not only is the model complicated, you're also forcing pretty intrusive telemetry on every user regardless if paid or not, just to track installs for your business model. Where before sending HW stats was just an option you could untick in Player Settings. And I know the install tracking will be invasive, because how else will you pull this off without invading user's privacy?

    Unity has been one time fee back in the day, switching to subscription was already controversial but at least it came without any additional bs and the free option was generous, though expected to be honest - it's not 2010 anymore and there are literally hundreds of alternative engines out there and they're all free. And you still made a ton of money with Asset Store even with free users. Myself I've spent literally thousands of dollars on the Asset Store, is this not enough?! And now this...Unity is acting is they have a monopoly and no serious AAA competition out there.
     
  50. nykalily

    nykalily

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    Hi uh, hello. Unity gamedev since at-least 2015, first time poster here on these forums.

    I'm here to say that unless this 'unity runtime fee' is reversed/dropped entirely, unless that happens I will be dropping Unity ENTIRELY from my workflow and Gamedev projects going forward.

    To call this bad business would be putting things gently, this is a total SCAM!

    Seriously Screw John Riccitiello and screw Unity the company for not having him fired/removed! I personally hope he gets sued to kingdom come!
     
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