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Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 22, 2023.

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  1. rasmus_unity499

    rasmus_unity499

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    @Mike-Geig

    Can you please clarify, is this how this Fee is intended:

    So if I have a game with the following:
    Ad Spend: $1,000,000
    Users Bought with that spend: 2,000,000
    Game Revenue: $1,000,000
    Profit: $1,000,000 - $1,000,000 = $0 (ZERO!)

    I now have to pay Unity Runtime Fee (I simplify calculation here, it's actually way more):
    1,000,000 users * $0.02 = $20,000 meaning...

    Profit is actually: $0 - $20,000 = -$20,000?

    This is not an unusual scenario until further iterations of the game actually starts making a profit. And now we are even further away from making profit? You guys run ad business and knows how small the margins are to be able to scale.

    REVENUE != PROFIT

    And how are you calculating revenue from each game?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  2. kristoof

    kristoof

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    Is this an out of season april fools joke?
     
  3. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    Unity, at least change the terms.

    1. All existing subscriptions will be honored and the stupid fee should not apply. Until the agreed date of the subscription end date. You cannot change the terms of the service like this.
    2. Change the amount of revenue to something more realistic. I think $1 mil per game is fair. Anything below is not really a success, you are just milking. Our profit margins are already slim.
    3. Retroactive fee to already released games is just mental. Please wake the f up.
    4. The application date (Jan 2024) is crazy. You are making this huge change and only telling us 3 months before...game projects span over years...do you know how many devs' life will change with this? Please give it a good year at least. So that we can move away from your engine. We need time to change engines.
     
    angiemon, Tuonela93, Meltdown and 6 others like this.
  4. msclower

    msclower

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    I thought $600 a year was excessive to get rid of the splash screen, but $2000!!!!
     
  5. Sir_Mac

    Sir_Mac

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    yea but see it from perspective of a company that have one hit wonder, they pass both instal and revenue threshold,
    they release a demo of new game to get some attention and they get 2 mln ppl to downlad a demo, they suddenly need to pay $20 000 just for releasing a free demo (if you are enterpise)! You constantly lose money each time developer/QA reinstall the game xD.
     
  6. Clavus

    Clavus

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    This move is sadly in line with Unity's incredibly poor decision making the past few years. The exodus of engineering talent was very indicative.
     
    angiemon, pantang, Ultroman and 15 others like this.
  7. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    Not sure if that helps, but you need to reach install and revenu thresholds for plans to apply.
    At least there is a big AND in the text, not in the table.
    Or I'm just hoping things.... still it would make no sense at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  8. pekdata

    pekdata

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    So basically small devs need to make sure the revenue is less than $200k OR downloads are under 200k limits on Personal? I don't think anyone wants a surprise tax based on something completely out of their control. I'm sort of glad this doesn't concern me at the moment.
     
  9. strich

    strich

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    We've been a Unity dev house for over 10 years now, and despite all the problems Unity has had over the past few years we haven't had too much reason to consider other options. However this has us deeply concerned. This seems really messy and cuts into a lot of different issues I cannot currently see a good solution for. For the first time I am wondering if I need to lead our company away from Unity for our future projects.
    The key questions I had after having read all available information Unity has posted:
    1. Exactly how are installs tracked? Over the life-time of our product, if a user "reinstalls" the game 20 times due to replaying the game, changing hardware, multiple devices, etc are we going to end up paying multiple dollars to that user? Although we make premium PC games, when our game is on sale we may end up losing money due to that users behavior!
    2. On PC our game could be pirated by tens or hundreds of thousands of users, each "installing" the game multiple times. So we're going to be taxed potentially tens of thousands of dollars on entirely non-paying users?
    3. For PC studios, Steam has in recent years made publishing demos an ever more important part of releasing a game. Our game could easily be "installed" by hundreds of thousands of users. So having a demo could incur tens of thousands of dollars in fees?
    4. How are you going to combat an angry fan or bad actor rapidly "reinstalling" the game and spoofing unique hardware and seriously tanking our profit? There are no way we can enter a contract with Unity if this very real and likely problem is in place.
    5. In the past we've given free or extremely cheap copies of our game to charitable causes to help raise charity. We will no longer be able to participate in charitable causes as it'll cost us too much to do.
    6. There is zero guidance on how this interacts with Game Pass and streaming services. How does any of this work there?
    I honestly cannot see an easy answer to these questions and this style of profiteering directly impacts our decision making and ability to publish our games in the way we see fit.

    With the current information we have and the way this looks to be going, we will have no choice but to cease doing business with Unity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
    jh2, gideon137, angiemon and 67 others like this.
  10. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    Same here. It's insane that they want to force us into the Pro plan. I don't need all of that crap.
     
  11. ScottyDSB

    ScottyDSB

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    Hello Unity.

    Nice try. And as you see the forum is burning. Time to step back and rethink your next move.
     
    angiemon, Sagedurk, NEHWind2 and 9 others like this.
  12. peter226

    peter226

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    I am very disappointed, how does this pricing even make sense? Do gambling games just get a free pass now as their revenue is off the charts even without installing 200k instances? They'll just unlist the game as soon as they reach the threshold, they already made their fortune.
    The whole pricing model just became atrocious. Why not just do this (replacing existing payment models):
    After $100k 4% revenue is cut (undercutting Unreal Engine's 5% at $1M, but still making up for it because of the lower level of entry), and on top of that offer an enterprise license for companies that wish to customize how they pay and want extra support, services per developer?
    How can you make such illogical decisions ALL THE TIME?
    There is a stress limit we can bear with your mismanagement, and this has reached that limit. Unity is a great engine, but that does not make up for this pricing model. People are already switcing to Unreal and Godot, why make your own situation even worse? If indie dev companies start leaving I'm leaving aswell. I started freelancing just a few months ago, if I can't find a job posting I'm off...
     
  13. Nosmer

    Nosmer

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    I'm a solo indie dev and this feels like borderline abuse. I've spent about 3 years making my project and now considering on moving to Unreal or even Godot. I really dont want to rewrite all the scripts and remake all the scenes that I've made but it feels like I have no other choice. It doesnt look like a thought-through decision, and I'm already seeing posts on other sites planning to abuse this system to generate millions of fake installs to ruin some poor dev. Why not just raise the usual fee? Why do you want to implement this fee in this specific way, which is not only very hard to track but also is very succeptible to abuse? It really feels like a terrible decision at least and a betrayal at most.

    P.S.: I understand that you want to increase your profits in this troubling time, but dont forget that things can turn out the way that instead of getting a bit more profit from a dev you might stop getting any at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
    jh2, angiemon, pantang and 13 others like this.
  14. vivian-a

    vivian-a

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    Is this a joke? This is absolutely unbelievable in every single way. You could literally bankrupt any small company using Unity due to this genuinely asinine concept.
     
  15. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    I don't think they will count debug builds, would be.... weird
     
    LilGames likes this.
  16. tsibiski

    tsibiski

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    When I worked at Unity, there was a suggestion to just release these ideas into the employee chats, and see what people said. Employees, I guarantee, would say everything that's been said here and more. The freakout would be proven before ruining the company's image publicly and betraying trust with the community. And yet the leadership would release these massive changes with zero feedback from any actual developers in the company. And the leadership is surprised by the massive backlash every time, and often rolls back the changes entirely. But the result is that the lost trust and lost customers never rolls back completely with those decisions to reverse course.

    Why does this company not learn from its mistakes? Why do they refuse to loop employees in on these things and prevent the disaster from ever even being publicly known?
     
    angiemon, detzt, TeagansDad and 29 others like this.
  17. Mark-Ripley

    Mark-Ripley

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    I bet the Unreal download servers are melting right now.
     
    angiemon, pantang, Kunalz and 24 others like this.
  18. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    Question to the team: How is Unity going to track install data if users are NOT consenting to any data tracking at all (a good example would be iOS and the ATT prompt).

    This is a technical question. Thank you
     
    angiemon, SI-Shawn, Astha666 and 7 others like this.
  19. lucasecardoso

    lucasecardoso

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    for established games, this feels like post hoc extortion. i'm not entirely sure this is legal -- but it is definitely a massive breach of trust. not going to work with unity in the future
     
    angiemon, Kunalz, marteko and 8 others like this.
  20. masai2k

    masai2k

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    Now I pay $35 every month for Unity Pus, just to remove the Unity logo in front of my apps.... Now, I had to pay $170 for the Pro version JUST TO REMOVE THE UNITY LOGO????
     
  21. kristoof

    kristoof

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    One in theory could make their own open-source unity runtime that’s 1:1 compatible with the editor. Just saying.
    Since not a lot changes between unity versions anyways.
     
    RAFLOKA, angiemon, LAKster and 2 others like this.
  22. RaventurnStefan

    RaventurnStefan

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    Thanks for the example, that pretty much applies to our company as well. We are only 2 developers, but we spend almost all the revenue again for the ads to get new installs. What's left is a measly salary and the cost of the Unity Pro licenses (which we're already struggling with) and a few other little things. Only we are already higher than a million users, which happens quickly on mobile - And we are not yet in any charts
     
  23. madpolydev

    madpolydev

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    That what happens when you go full corpo… never go full corpo. Ever since the public listing, cant help to notice Unity is just focusing on maximizing profit and share price. Alot of developers were cut. And its very apparent that the main decision makers have no idea what they re doing and are very disconnected with the users and their own dev team perhaps. This may end badly…
     
    angiemon, marteko, Daedolon and 5 others like this.
  24. Studio-Raef

    Studio-Raef

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    So are you going to reduce the price of unity pro to compensate for removing plus? Because I don't need all the extra stuff of pro and I just needed plus. This price increases is insane
     
  25. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    Guys. If you roll out such a pricing model, do you ever check this back with test users to see how they react on this? This is the worst communicated price model chance I ever witnessed. It will hurt Unity. Massively.
     
    angiemon, Ultroman, Sagedurk and 11 others like this.
  26. Abnormalia_

    Abnormalia_

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    This is some serious BS right there. This will cause so many complications and cases, they are shooting to their foot with this for sure. What happens when dev soon to reach the limit, changes the title slightly, and releases game? :)
     
    angiemon likes this.
  27. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    Just told my fellow devs...and pretty much everyone is furious...
     
    angiemon, Kunalz, 479813005 and 8 others like this.
  28. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    I was already expecting this when they released paid "add-ons" like MARS. Now we have the proof.
     
    angiemon and pantang like this.
  29. eurasian_69

    eurasian_69

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    Do free demos count as installs?
     
  30. Lynxbird

    Lynxbird

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    Good question. Will free demo downloads be combined in count and charged with main game?
     
    angiemon, Ruslank100 and Trisibo like this.
  31. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    Yeah if I'm not dreaming :
     
    Ruslank100 and pekdata like this.
  32. masai2k

    masai2k

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    I just deleted my Unity Plus subscription...
     
  33. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    How would Unity distinguish between a demo and a full game? It’s just words.
     
    Ruslank100, LilGames, Trisibo and 2 others like this.
  34. kristoof

    kristoof

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    Possibly.
    Best thing is we don’t know.
    Way to go on communicating what you actually want to implement UT!
     
    angiemon and LAKster like this.
  35. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    Well, it matches the new "quality" of their documentation, doesn't it?
     
    angiemon, Ruslank100, Trisibo and 2 others like this.
  36. Cartographer

    Cartographer

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    upload_2023-9-12_16-35-55.png upload_2023-9-12_16-36-14.png

    Now I am not really clued up on stock things, but I guess the upper share holders knew the backlash would be immense. I doubt this decision was made in the past week.

    A tragic display. I think everything that can be said has been included in this thread. As a long time Unity user back from the Unity 3D and 4 days, I really hope that the company can take the time to repair the damage they have been causing their customers.
     
    angiemon, guoboism, Ultroman and 32 others like this.
  37. Spellbook

    Spellbook

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    If that's the case it might make a little more sense, but the blog post is still super confusing using terms like "lifetime install monthly fee". If I had 10,000,000 installs in 2024, then the game has a 200k nostalgic resurgence in 2032, am I paying them a million dollars in fees because of the lifetime installs?
     
  38. eurasian_69

    eurasian_69

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    also, which of these thresholds is per-company, and which is per-game?
     
    angiemon likes this.
  39. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    After a good half hour of anger, I am sitting in front of my workstation thinking, what the heck am I going to do?
    How am I going to port the game to Unreal in the remaining timeframe?
    What is the best and quickest way to learn Unreal Engine...
    Is Godot good enough for commercial application?
    Is there Steamworks support?
    What am I going to with the game I am shipping this month?
    What am I going to do with all the skills, scripts and Unity specific assets I purchased?
    sigh.
     
    gideon137, Demexis, angiemon and 27 others like this.
  40. whirly-von-elsass

    whirly-von-elsass

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    Frankly this will deeply impact our relationship with Unity. If they can decide to change the business model just by snapping their fingers, what garantee do we have that 6 months later the 0.2$ does not become 2$ ?
     
    gideon137, angiemon, jwinn and 17 others like this.
  41. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    It says Games, but I'd love a confirmation from the team.

    Which also probably means that Demo are on their own, because not the same id.
     
  42. Francoimora

    Francoimora

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    That is is so stupid at every level that I can't believe it's real. Unity doesn't understand how game market is operating. I don't really care Unity changing their mind and adopting something like Unreal Engine (Editor is free, you pay a share on revenue), but the per installs fee will be a no-go for almost every use cases. Few examples of what will happen :

    - You have a deal to be in a massive bundle (Humble for example). Almost of the time, you earn less than 1$ on it. You really will charge more than 20% on it ?
    - You are making a free-to-play game and you have a lot of uninstalls, but the fews that stay make you earn money. With the per-installs fee, nobody will take the risk to make a free-to-play game with Unity.
    - You are in the Game Pass / PS Plus... you were paid a certain amount of money by Sony / Microsoft but can't tell how much it will cost to you in advance because you don't know how much units will be downloaded.

    And that is just few examples.

    To finish, how will you track the installs count ? If that is just declarative, it means we will have to track that ourselves (with the separation between classic and emerging market), which means extra work for us just to give you more money.
     
    angiemon, jwinn, HarvesteR and 6 others like this.
  43. waldgeist

    waldgeist

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    Even if it gets reversed, it will be hard to trust this company ever again.
     
    jh2, gideon137, angiemon and 34 others like this.
  44. Steviebops

    Steviebops

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    So this is how they plan on funding AI features that may not even pass copyright laws?

    Amazing. Always good to add more to the poo sandwich.
     
    angiemon, pantang, marteko and 4 others like this.
  45. vivian-a

    vivian-a

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    If you wanted a revenue share so badly, why wouldn't you just do one instead of this.. stupid nonsense?
     
    pantang, guoboism, Sagedurk and 12 others like this.
  46. pekdata

    pekdata

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    Yeah, maybe in 2025 it's $100k and 100k installs? And $0.50 per install. Who can say for sure.
     
    angiemon, guoboism, Spasmoth and 7 others like this.
  47. gui_dev

    gui_dev

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    Not even Google Play or Apple App Store charges for installs, but you do.

    Just. Great. Work.
     
  48. Invertex

    Invertex

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    No, guess what, Gambling games are ENTIRELY exempt, which makes all this so much more gross.
    They had the gall to bundle them in with educational games.
     
  49. Khyrid

    Khyrid

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    I was starring confused at the new pricing when I got the notice, then it occurred to me I need to pay a visit back to the forums. As I suspected there is a huge backlash.

    I was happy paying for the plus subscription, but I guess I'll drop down to personal now. I have been just using Unity as a hobby anyway, if you don't want my money, that's ok I guess.

    I just hope that you guys know what you're doing, I would hate for Unity to run itself into the ground.
     
    angiemon, marteko, Meltdown and 6 others like this.
  50. HBG-Mathieu

    HBG-Mathieu

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    There is also something really troublesome, it's that it's using the revenu from the last 12 months, but the current installs.
     
    Thygrrr likes this.
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