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Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 22, 2023.

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  1. CitrusT

    CitrusT

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    What if a developer decides to make their game free once they hit the revenue/install threshold, would they still have to pay per install after that?

    Additionally, if a piece of software or a game is developed under contract for a third party entity, does the contractor have to foot the bill for install fees, or is that the responsibility of the third party once the software/game goes to market, if it's the latter how are you going to enforce that since they would not be the Unity license holder? For contractors and companies that deal in this sort of market, this is likely something that would need to be factored in and communicated in future (as well as ongoing) project bids/proposals.
     
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  2. forestrf

    forestrf

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    Of course, and their users have to try get the best deal possible and in this case also avoid going bankrupt.

    Unity has made big purchases: Weta, Parsec and others. Those help their net income be negative, but their gross revenue only keeps going up over time, which means they are both making and spending more and more money over time. They know what they are doing and are far from being in financial problems, they just need to stop making stupid decisions for once. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/U/unity-software/gross-profit

    upload_2023-9-13_5-0-51.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
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  3. FTKguy

    FTKguy

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    It is not 200K in revenues, it is 200K in gross income for the game (including stores fees and everything).
     
  4. SplitScream

    SplitScream

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    Charging Junk fees for installation if a grift. How is installation a "cost" when Unity doesn't distribute the games. If anyone should be charging us, it's the electric company.
    Developers don't want it, Publishers don't want it, and Consumers don't want it.
     
  5. TheNullReference

    TheNullReference

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    I can't argue with you on that one.

    The problem is they went public, operating revenue increases share prices.

    The current CEO is extremely dodgey though. Has only ever sold Unity shares, never bought them. It's like he's trying to cash out while destroying the business.
     
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  6. hurleybird

    hurleybird

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  7. Valaska

    Valaska

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    Are you high? This is mostly going to harm games offering demos, offering webGL demos, and might be getting pirated a lot. Larger projects, NOT FREE TO PLAY, but games offering demos.

    This is INSANELY important in the indie space and you obviously have ZERO experience in running a project if you think this way. You are hilariously ignorant. Itch WebGL, Newground WebGL, etc are some of the highest conversion rates you can get in the industry and the best advertising out there PERIOD. People then take your WebGL builds and distribute them across the internet.

    It is also one of the best ways to combat piracy is to give out a meaty demo. It will also harm early access and crowdfunding as these projects MUST regularly release builds.

    You have no idea what the F*** you are talking about. We are a paid for CRPG. The only games, ONLY GAMES THIS BENEFITS, are games with high microtransactions and/ore gambling/lootboxmechanics who can overly monetize beyond an install. This hurts large projects that invest heavily into their work.
     
  8. anon8008135

    anon8008135

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    upload_2023-9-12_23-0-36.gif

    If it's any solace, at least Unity Forums is less buggy and has more expected features than the game engine lol. Surprised I got to post a gif.
     
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  9. TheNullReference

    TheNullReference

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    Yea I don't get why they just don't charge a revenue share, however people should be honest about why they're upset. It doesn't "sound good" but it's not going to cost them anything in most cases.
     
  10. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

    Unity Technologies

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    Sorry if my initial response wasn't clear. Here's a hypothetical scenario:

    On September 1 you realize that in August you had 300000 installs and just passed the $200k threshold. Your next bill is due in September, for the month of August. If you upgrade to Unity Pro, your revenue threshold is suddenly $1M and your September bill for August installs is reevaluated. You will not be charged at the Personal license tier.
     
  11. starfishpeter

    starfishpeter

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    Are you serious? Do you charge based on the number of installations? If there is no reasonable verification method, I, as a competitor, can maliciously use a virtual machine to repeatedly install and uninstall a certain company's games, causing them to pay additional fees.
     
  12. TheRaider

    TheRaider

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    You work your way up paying each bracket. Unity explained that earlier.
     
  13. IsaiahKelly

    IsaiahKelly

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    Am I just crazy or would Unity simply switching to a X% royalty fee for games making over X gross amount yearly not thwart this entire disaster?

    I was never really a fan of Unreal's licensing plans but Unity's new one seems far worse in every way (perception, predictability, transparency, etc.).
     
  14. NoPants_

    NoPants_

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    On unreal after 1 mill you have to pay 5% going forward, where at least this has a 1 mill rolling income threshold. That's at least worth considering. And the per install cost only goes down, it won't reset back to the highest tier.

    I don't think this stuff is illegal tho, they might just require you to agree to an amended Eula, companies do crap like that all the time.
     
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  15. impheris

    impheris

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    ...Sorry?

     
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  16. b1gry4n

    b1gry4n

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    https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten

    this article is reporting that its per install on device, which means in the case of a steam deck youd be charged two installations per purchase if the user installs on both pc and steam deck.

    so we can release a paid game "demo" for $25 and also post the full game for $100? the demo shouldnt incur any fees if this statement is correct. right?
     
  17. CoraBlue

    CoraBlue

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    I'm not opposed to a 20 cent per sale rev share after 200k. If that's the spirit of the program then do that. 20 cents per SALE after 200k. None of this telemetry black box algorithm stuff. I would RATHER just give you 20 cents after 200k per sale than worry about installs. But that isn't what Unity has proposed. That's the whole problem. Please pass that along.
     
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  18. TheNullReference

    TheNullReference

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    chill bro
     
  19. Valaska

    Valaska

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    Yeah at this rate we WILL be changing engines for our next project. What unity does now will decide whether we emergency scramble to port our entire project out of Unity into GoDot or Unreal.
     
  20. ldubos

    ldubos

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    Ok thanks for the precision
     
  21. james_amiro

    james_amiro

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    Any update on the "high user count + low monetization" situation? Will there be a cap on the revenue share % Unity takes?
     
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  22. TheNullReference

    TheNullReference

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    good luck learning an entirely new engine, I'm sure it wont cost you more than 1c per download.
     
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  23. Prith1

    Prith1

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    this just kills mobile games entirely
    the margins on mobile games that generate revenue only on ads is already so low, once you hit the revenue threshold, it's better to just delete the game entirely cuz you will start losing money per user when u take into account mobile LTVs

    it becomes more profitable to not have a game than have a game live for mobile? how does this make sense guys?
    You would be charging more per install than the revenue generated by the user?

    an install on pc/console is very different compared to an install on mobile, so why are they charged the same?

    we know unity acquired ironsource and a mobile publisher, so whoo hoo u want to be a monopoly in the mobile space, but killing indie devs in the process cant be your solution guys cmon.

    imo there HAS to be a difference between a pc/console install vs a mobile install
     
  24. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    Ok, a user does not allow ANY data tracking. How can you verify that he installed the game on iPhone and on iPad, and it’s not two users?

    they already said only one install per user counts.
     
  25. IllTemperedTunas

    IllTemperedTunas

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    If valve is able to print money taking a 30% cut, why hasn't Unity been able to do the same?

    What's stopping Unity from producing their own store where they offer better direct support and features through their engine?

    Instead of finding more ways of sucking money out of developers, why don't they just try to compete where all the money is? Being the engine producer they have a multitude of great ways they could add aditional value to their games while preventing a middle man from taking all their profits.

    I'm at a loss for how absolutely incompetent this company is.

    Look at Nintendo, Look at Microsoft, Look at Unreal. IT"S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE GUYS, SELL YOUR DAMNED GAMES WITH A SUPERIOR STOREFRONT.

    But that would require actual effort.

    This all feels like sticking your hands in the developers pockets while providing nothing.

    There are a multitude of ways Unity could print money, the plans they have attempted have been doomed for failure. This company is incapable of producing a valuable product and is coasting on past glory.
     
  26. lgrammer

    lgrammer

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    That is different from saying it's impossible to track. If you download something I make that is an executable, I can access your HWID info alongside other information and use it to track you. It's a whole subfield of programming called telemetry bro
     
  27. anon8008135

    anon8008135

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    Spirit can't be reasonably accounted for in budgets. Relay the message, pwease.
     
  28. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

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    I don't disagree.
     
  29. NatDev33

    NatDev33

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    We will only publish through Steam, and we have hundreds of thousands of requests for the project my team has been working on for two years. Given the unnecessary methods Unity seems to be prioritizing, I would like to inform you of our course of action to ensure that no illegal activities are involved. We will only share official data obtained from Steam, such as purchase, download, and reinstallation data, using Unity. We will not pay a single cent beyond these figures. Unfortunately, we are not concerned about the client-based security measures you have in place, as we are well aware that circumventing such barriers is quite possible with today's technology. Someone who has been developing online games for approximately 14 years is writing this. Keep your security walls to yourselves. We will show you the actual installations, and you can contact Steam for verification. Otherwise, dealing with this matter through legal channels is straightforward but time-consuming.

    I don't want to understand why they chose such a difficult path given this situation. Unity continues to shoot itself in the foot. I just wanted to point this out.
     
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  30. LuiBroDood

    LuiBroDood

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    this makes me feel good cause unity is my first learn and then it dies...
    well i did learn actionscript flash but i wasnt really good or deep into it like unity
     
  31. MattCarr

    MattCarr

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    From Jan next year we're going to start getting billed some random non-insignificant amount by Unity for a game released years ago that still sells well and the amount we're charged is based on a number the Unity calculates with proprietary mumbo jumbo behind closed doors.

    Every install of our game from Jan 1 2024 costs Unity $0.00 unless you account for minor server costs from calls our application makes to Unity that we didn't choose to include.

    Our only recourse for this would be to stop selling the game, otherwise we're forced to suddenly give Unity large sums of money for nothing.

    But hey, the "spirit" of this is that they will only charge once per user, but they in fact will charge multiple times per user because, as they've said, they have no way of tracking whether the same user installs on another machine and in fact have said this will be counted as an additional install. But hey, gotta love that spirit.

    Also the amount charged will definitely be inaccurate, whether that's +/-, from what is the goal and intention of this change, but don't worry about that. You just pay the money we tell you.

    So basically starting 2024 if you're a developer with a game or games above the threshold you're about to be robbed.
     
  32. anon8008135

    anon8008135

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    You don't matter cause white knights defending Unity also hate free2install, microtransaction games.
     
  33. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

    Unity Technologies

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    Sorry, I had go hunt down a lawyer to answer this so it took a while. Here is their response:

     
  34. ViveLeCommune

    ViveLeCommune

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    Bro are they paying you bc you're doing more work for unity in here than their whole pr team lmao
     
  35. Valaska

    Valaska

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    The F***? No, I will not. I have a team of 8 people I need to pay and we need to reinvest into our next project and as we move onto Steam and you are completely wrong with yoru proscription. This will benefit the projects you said it will hurt because they can nearly infinitely moentise each install. It's EXACTLY the projects that they are targeting. miHoYo, Arknights, etc. Unity saw these companies are making a ton of gambling/lootbox and they (Unity) are deperate to attack these companies to try and strong arm more money out of them since they also get a ton of downloads.

    Unity in its sheer and utter ignorance didn't consider the fact that indie projects on in Kickstarter, on Patreon, Subscribestar... are constantly releasing whole new builds almost every month, free demos, and webGL builds which get passed around everywhere.

    Even moving to Steam into EA etc us indie projects ARE ALMOST REQUIRED TO HAVE A DEMO VERSION or we're F***ed. We will get zero eyes without a demo, most the largest Unity indie games on the Steam storefront have a demo, and a good deal of them are free to play to some extent.

    What you said is insanely offbeat, and completely ignorant of how we mid-sized developers/projects use Unity. Small free to play games that never make the 200k bracket won't care about this change outside ethical considerations or that they WANT to get over 200k. The large 200k+ gacha games are going to be pissed off, but they can afford it.

    Who will this hurt? The middle road projects like ours which is a CRPG. All sorts of roleplaying games, niche multiplayer survival games that end up getting a decently large audience and require free demos/versions/tests/update builds etc. We are the ones hurt by this, not small f2p purely games.
     
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  36. lgrammer

    lgrammer

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    I'm sorry but how does a user have anything to do with a license between me and unity. If a user denies my data tracking fine but how do they deny valve and unity?

    Alternative funny answer - the blockchain bro
     
  37. hurleybird

    hurleybird

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    Even with a reversal, why on earth would you not move to a different engine, at least for new projects?

    It's entirely possible Unity does reverse based on what an unmitigated disaster this is turning into. But the people responsible for this will still be there. They will absolutely try something else at your expense if and when they feel they can get away with it. You're still left with the sword of Damocles dangling over your head.

    The only way to get out from under the sword of Damocles is if Unity both reverse course on this specific decision, and also removes from authority all those who were responsible for it.
     
  38. ThatRobHuman

    ThatRobHuman

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    oh this is gonna go well.....
     
  39. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    So since when is it legal to collect data from kids? That’s why I also mentioned COPPA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  40. IllTemperedTunas

    IllTemperedTunas

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    The devil is in the details. We need to hear that all the new metrics and methods of payment aren't going to be weaponized against developers. At first glance this is incredibly shady, it looks like you guys are bullying your developers and could easily manipulate data to further strong arm already monopolized markets.

    The cold truth is few of the people at Unity now contributed to it's worth. You are using a broken monetary system to extort money out of people while providing them nothing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  41. TCROC

    TCROC

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    I share this sentiment. I also find that historically “the spirit” or something does not necessarily translate to “the execution” of that something.
     
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  42. CoraBlue

    CoraBlue

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    Man, that's exactly why this situation is so scary. It's one thing to read it in a TOS. It's another when you start actually pulling the levers.
     
  43. MorganYT

    MorganYT

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  44. Dennis_eA

    Dennis_eA

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    If you publish an executable to your users you are 100% responsible. Doesn’t matter if you wrote your own game engine or use Unity
     
  45. Thaina

    Thaina

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    So the indie developer need to unpublish their game before 200000 install reach, if their game just being popular but not generate enough revenue, especially mobile game when most of installation it would be downloaded for trial and uninstall in one day

    I can see in near future there would be chaotic lawsuit about many people denied their game are being downloaded or installed legally, the number from unity are not trustable, and so on

    I don't see any good future about this model. Should be retracted the plan instantly
     
  46. Thygrrr

    Thygrrr

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    That is still 640,000 USD more than their previous licensing costs.

    Do you realize how insane that sounds?!
     
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  47. spikeles

    spikeles

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    Even the charge on initial install is dumb. Why should a dev be charged if the user changed his CPU. You didn't distribute the game to them an additional time, he already had the installer downloaded. How can it be right to charge for a new install?
     
  48. pbritton

    pbritton

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    Who knows if Unity's plan was to push out something so awful that switching to the dreaded revenue % would all of a sudden appear more attractive. I can't say that I was against the model because both parties need to make money (dev and engine ).
     
  49. AlphA_k0

    AlphA_k0

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    Not this...
     
  50. impheris

    impheris

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    for what i understand, you are not changingor adding the fees values, you are changing the whole system, am i wrong?
     
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