Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

No one is going to sue Unity. You will need to argue your case with Unity and hope for goodwill.

 

Doesn't Google Play and Apple both have a system to detect whether the account that installed it has the entitlement to begin with?

Edit: Oh wait, I didn't think it through because that runs AFTER the runtime initializes, which is still an install. It'd be an install but the pirate can't play it without modification to bypass it.

 

This is just a gigantic red flag for me. If their data acquisition is not via phoning home, which would be illegal in most places, but by some "model", how the hell would they even do that? What they say they do, and what is technically possible in reality are two entirely different things.

And if the number of installs is an estimate, how is this legally enforceable either? I don't know of any service that charges you an estimate, especially when the company is the sole proprietor of the estimate and doesn't disclose what the estimate is based on.

But even if Unity's pricing was completely controllable and fair, there is still the issue of lost trust. How can we ever trust a company that did changes to pricing with only 3.5 month notice, and is trying to apply it retroactively to people who started working on projects under completely different agreements?

 

You can code the calculator yourself, it's just Random.Range(0.20, int.MaxValue);

Charging an estimate is fine, aws, azure do that too, the issue is they are charging for something you have no control over.

On a web service I can stop the service at any point or shut it down.

I can't stop someone that bought my game from installing it, ever.

 

Ok we're done. Sold all Unity stock yesterday morning and had everyone uninstall Unity this morning. GL to the devs sticking around to put up with this BS. Now to find us another engine.

 

you pretty much summed it up in a beautiful way. issue is not even the money, but the trust and the way this was handled. that unity should get a bigger cut, sure fine yeah, take a %, idk why you didnt went earlier for something like that.

but now they overinvested and are poorly managed, all the S*** they bought. i think 300million of insider sells of stock too since ipo. its all money unity could need to restructure. and its not the employees fault, their managment just prays that down to them 24/7. "our financial data so bad, we cant support that many engineers." its the same bullshit in most companies. yeah i mean then why did you buy that much bullshit and grew like that.

people actually love the engine and want unity to succceed. but their ceo/managment does not understand anyone here. they were acting like "we make the decision, and it does not affect 90% of you, our data shows that" corporate bs. it does not matter if 10%. if its not a fair deal or worse a stupid deal for all, go f. every detail of their change was sprinkled with bullshit.

and each and every programmer knew from what kind of people this comes. we are the same as the tech people in unity. its the ones that talk "buisness" all day, that are the problem - hello unity you are working with game developers. the must chill and intelligent people you can find. and you are acting like c***s. i can definitly see that the majority of the community will leave and unity becomes a household name, next to flash and the internet explorer

 

If Unity's recent actions were the final nail in the coffin for many, then if Meta buys them, that's like pouring gasoline on the funeral pyre and then sending in a fleet of bulldozers to ensure there's nothing left to resurrect.

 

I recommend everyone to watch this, very informative on the concept of techno-feudalism.

 

meta is lately putting everything open source

 

yeah its just stupid. and what even more stupid. those huge titles have the money to switch out the engines over some time. if you make 1b a month you find a way to do so. charges per install is the most stupid metric you can come up with. if they cant prove it, so we can control it, they can and will be sued. if its wrong only by one install. it just means more work for everyone, destroyes the trust and makes unity become literal maleware.
players now know this too. its a lose lose lose situation. everyone loses.

 

Open access, not open source, you are limited in what you can do with it, ie you cannot create competing product with it.

But that's moot anyway, I predict AI will be a sql type of algorithm in the end. We keep finding way to make it better with less and less, and the more we understood what it does under the hood, the more we are able to turn it into a rot database query architecture.

 

interesting article from an "economic" POV
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/unitys-self-combustion-engine-this-week-in-business

 

Now I'm wet.

 

Unity has made claims about their ability to detect and prevent fraud to ensure that developers are not forced to pay for installs they did not legitimately sell. However, the nature of digital systems always introduces the possibility of manipulation and unintended consequences.

I'd like to offer a suggestion to Unity: How about a test run of Unity's new pricing model on one of Unity's own games? How about Unity create a test game and put it up for sale for 1$, and let us actively attempt to push the limits of the system, and see how Unity's protection mechanisms perform in real-world scenarios. That 00.20$ could go towards some charity or something which would be available to watch in real time on their landing page. If the system is as secure as they claim, they make a nice profit. And if it doesn't.....well now they understand why we're so worried....

 

You can't test with what you don't have.

 

not in all cases, i worked with a team some time ago and i remember the project being +7gb and it was working pretty good, PlasticSCM IMO is very nice

 

Pretty accurate

 

They don't even need a game, just an empty project called "proving a point". How confident are they?

 

The answer is they can’t know how many people download your game without an internet connect to each user. Simple as that.

There is no way for them to tell otherwise. It’s impossible.

 

Seconded, very good video.

 

maybe you are right, maybe this is not important, but this change on the TOS is not a 1 week desicion u know

 

Yes. Everyone has said that. And it still doesn't F***ing matter because these are the kinds of stock sales that have been happening all over tech u know

 

LOL!

 

Yeah this is the case for us. We have a title releasing in the first quarter of 2024 that we will obviously be continuing with.

Our larger game we've been working on for 2 years is something we initially wanted to do in Unreal after already becoming dissatisfied with Unity's direction, but that wasn't viable because of that game's reliance on highly custom rendering that Unreal 5 couldn't support at the time. Not within reason anyway, source is available so anything is possible but it would have been asking for trouble on a long term project.

Changing engine will be very challenging for that game. We've invested far too much time/money into it to cancel it now, but none of the other possible engines of note have all the particular rendering features and possibilities that Unity offers that we're using.

Even disregarding emotion, with how Unity is being run right now, and the apparent state of their finances and priorities, tying ourselves to an engine that could be self sabotaging and might not be viable in 5 years is not a good business decision.

And then if we take emotion into account, which because we've been fairly financially fortunate with our existing games we actually can to a degree, I'd be happy to just get away from the people running Unity and never look back.

So we're waiting, like I imagine many companies are right now, to see if they have any way of saving themselves and to backtrack this change.

Can they make me believe that they won't try again to basically steal from us by suddenly demanding arbitrary amounts of money from some guesstimate numbers of "installs" from a game we released years ago?

Can they do anything to make me believe the engine will remain viable to use over the next 10 years?

If they can do that, we'd maybe consider using it just for this one game we're 2 years in on. Beyond that though, there's close to 0% chance I'd start a new commercial Unity project ever again.

If they'd just said they were going to do <=5% rev share on titles using Unity 2024+ then I'd have accepted that and accounted for that known amount on our next game.

Their need must be too immediate though to have overreached and gone after all existing games and their morals and competence too low to have based it on fake "install" numbers.

 

Hopefully Google Play and The App Store just ban all Unity games.

 

Simple Conclusion:

If you got 10 new player(assuming 20 installs), you must earn at least 5$ otherwise you will get bankrupt.

that’s it.

ARPU must be at least 0.5$.

 

Although it may not be true, from previous messages, I think this is closer to what is possible; closer than 'reversal' of everything...as others have said, it may not be a total backpedaling/reversing...but a 'soft' backpedaling/reversing.
Like this image.

It is (more) likely the truth, than 'total reversal'; I think, we have to brace ourselves that total reversal is probably, and (more) likely not happening; than happening. I think there is about 60% chance not happening, and 40%, happening.
But, this above or some thing like that, maybe not exactly that, but resembling to that...yes, there is more like 60% chance that it will be something like that, than 'total reversal' that people ask.

The fact the information so far said that 'there may be a 'glimmer of hope' and that things will be improved'...means, it probably will not be total reversal; but it will be improvement (soft backpedaling). Just not, the total reversal.
Anyway, I could be totally wrong, and they totally reverse everything and ask forgiveness....but I don't think so.

Because, 'need money'...that's the big reason (profit..not revenue...profit); so, it's Harsh...it all comes down to the penny...they want money from us...because, no other sources...(and we can say it'S a managment money spending problem....but, they will still say...we use their engine...so we have to pay more to keep continue use it, because they can't continue to 'exist' as company running a 1.5 Billion dollar profit deficit; their fault...but we are their end users).

I hope, it is not -no change..to anything; it could be possible, the fees will stay....and nothing would change, at all.
Let's hope not; but let's hope not into thinking 'necessarily' they will reverse everything (let's just not be 'too hoping' and then be sad/angered...nothing changed); there is a substantial chance, that only it will be partially reversed...and there is smaller chance...nothing will be reversed/all stays the same.
But, I might be surprised (or not, so surprised), and nothing changes at all, in the end.

Unity did not always respond in the Forums...sometimes they did not respond for weeks...so it is possible that they do that. They are just settling things and weathering the things. As for people who say, they will be sued, by devs, or by big companies (Microsoft, etc...); it is possible, but I am not so sure; Unreal and Unity and several big companies...for them, it's just regular business these lawsuits or fighting 'smaller ones'; albeit, fighting in court huge companies like Apple (Epic vs Apple; so now, it could be Unity vs Microsoft/Amazon/google/everyone...); but, I have to say, Unity is very lasting; like Epic, or Steam; they're there; and it would take a lot to make them be bankrupt/disappear; despite this negative profit and high-aboves who sell their shares/stocks and think that Unity is 'a sinking Titanic boat' and just wait to jumpship (with their stock fortunes)...we have to remember Unity is a MegaCorp, like Epic, so I don't see them (just) disappearing in the night...overnight. Yes, running out of profit/money...but, not yet (completely) gone, neither.
Unity has still the Biggest Pie of the Mobile Market...no game engine approaches the 'hold' of mobile market..like UNity; it is said, Epic, has the PC market (and Valve/Steam...Steam has the PC market...with Epic); but, Unity, they have the mobile market. (albeit, they will lose it..of course, if mobile devs will leave...some/many will leave.. of course; I think they calculated...it a loss..we will 'eat'..and we calculated a loss..but not, total loss neither.) Godot has the Opensource market. As, for others, Crysis/Crytek 5 or 6...Lumberyard, Unigine, Flax, RPG Gamemaker, Gameguru, they have about 5% of the (rest) market. Console domain, is of course to Sony (Playstation), Microsoft (Xbox) and Nintendo (Switch). Even if all them, including Steam and Epic, decide to go against Unity...I'm not sure/convinced (yet) that Unity will fall, despite them all ganging up on Unity. Anyway, I do hope things are reversed and we can continue using whatever we wish; but, I do agree with people who say: ''No...trust is lost...no more trust...I can't trust this engine later...what says they won't do a 180o-U-turn rugpull..on me again, later...nothing says so. so I'm gambling my future as game dev, staying with them/making games in their engine later (or people will not buy my games...because I keep making them in Unity..and it's shunned by gamers who now 'know' the whole Unity debacle).''. I think it will depend on people's capability to accept (or not), and accept that these fees may be a sort of compromise; to continue to use the engine. Which, I know, many many, will not accept (of course, and understandably).

As for people who say (I was one...but now, I changed mind); ''I can stay on the previous ToS....''; I thought too ...but, there worded alll the previous ToS/TOS/Terms of Service..to be 'open' to the 'additional fees'...this exact wording; so, even if you wanted to stay/stick on an old ToS...the Old ToS..had wording that they could 'charge you other fees' later..if they wanted...and we Accepted this ToS...when we started using their engine. So, I mean, it may be an error or not catching this wording...and they may use this in court to prove that people aggreed to these ToS that say: ''may incur additional fees''; and these words are present in all ToS...so, it's like, it was a 'backdoor' they had put and we agreed to it (or just forgot/didn ot read clearly enouhg of this wording). So, in court they could say: 'every dev...aggreed ...and our ToS say, specific words: ''may incur addtional fees'' legalese/lingo. Additional fees...what additional fees?...could be anything; so this falls in the 'per-install fees'. Legalese is very precise/and can be used against you; in court, they will measure each and every single word...to win the case. Others here said: ''Big companies always win on cases like that...the ToS may be invalidated...but, it still their ToS....''. I think the reason why they could lose, is that the model is very 'taxing' on mobile devs...and thus, does undue damage...in that sense, they could lose...and then, they woule be forced to reverse the fees. But, let's not assume that, immediately, despite many people/companies to sue...that, necessarily, they would lose.. I think the Epic vs Apple turn of events proves it (Epic did not win, Apple won in the courts; so, it could go both ways; that Unity's changes are 'fair-enough'...and wins. Less fair for mobile devs, of course, so they might have to reduce the fees for mobile devs or remove them,completely).

For people who stay, you may elect to buy the pro to remove the logo...but, as others said in the forums ehre...there is a bit of an exaggeration about 'the bad logo' thing (some devs had said, it made no difference to their bottom line)....I mean, now, the logo will be more associated with 'bad games' and 'no one wants Unity-made games'...as soon as seeing the logo. But, I think, this is (mostly) exaggerated, as others said here; that, of course, you don't wish to reduce your number of gamers...because they would hate your game..simply for being made in Unity engine (upon seeing the logo at the start of the game). Yes, you may experience a certain loss of customers -- who never would touch/play a Unity game...but, Most gamers..no. Some..yes. Most, will overlook that, and will say...''ok..it's a Unity-made game....not so great..but, yeah...is it a Good Game? if yes,...I might be able to overlook that Unity-made game fact...''.
So there will be a certain internal battle with gamers...between continue playing Unity games..or not. A % will not, of course, due to the whole debacle and yeah...but, some will, because they will say: ''I have to separate the Dev from the Unity company...the dev made a Great Game...but the engine is not the engine that is wished...so am I gonna not play this game...because I don't like the Unity engine/logo...?''. Some won't, but some will, even so. I see, a quite half/half, 50/50 on this; where some gamers..will just play the darn game anyway...As Long, as the game is good and tthat the dev makes great games...etc. MOstly, irrespectively, of 'made-in-Unity' logo/engine thing...We can expect some loss of gamers..due to 'we have Unity engine/logo/and the company for per-install fees'....absolutely, some will boycott all Unity games; so, it's not great for us, as game devs; but, I guess, this where, you decide, compromise sticking, or no, not worth jeopardizing whole carreer...later unity games...and instead, switch engine, altogether.
It's avery personal decision, and I don't think we should so easily (and harshly) judge devs...who stayed.
They had their reasons (it is very Akin to the COVID 19...some took vaccine...some did not...had their reason(s).). anyway, just a 2 c.

 

Lol

 

many games out there were not made with 2020 or newer versions

 

People who say they will sue are delusional. No one is going to sue that would cost $200,000 – $10,000,000 and take 3 plus years and likely fail anyway.

Unless you have good hard evidence that Unity is scamming you it will be hard.

 

This isn’t even remotely close to acceptable. We will continue porting our entire titles to Godot

 

does someone has a breakdown of unity's revenue, that will tells you

 

i'm not even touching the hub to even start porting, i feel sick about all this sht and tbh is pretty depressing
even looking for other C# game engines that are pretty far behind unity is bad enough

 

Their EULA already says that if they change the EULA, you can choose to stay on the older version.

 

Unity shut down all active forums and threads on their Discord.
I guess they don`t want to hear peoples opinion anymore.

 

Hey I feel for you man. My dad and I are in the same place right now. We have ~3 months to port Blocky Ball to Godot or take it down according to these new TOS:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1343040/Blocky_Ball/

We were literally 3 weeks away from having the sequel ready. That has since been canceled.

BUT FEAR NOT! WE WILL NOT BE BULLIED AND DISCOURAGED!!

We have started our port to Godot and the sequel will be “Blocky Ball Overtime”! We’ll have an announcement video coming soon and will be documenting the posting video updates on the entire process!

Do not give up or get discouraged! When you get hit and knocked down, stand back up, and hit back harder! Life hits like a truck. Be that unstoppable force that keeps on pressing on!

 

I am legitimately depressed. I feel like a family member has died. I had no idea how emotionally attached I was to the game engine.

 

I just checked and everything is normal.

 

Don’t underestimate your abilities. The game engine is nothing without you. Not the other way around.

 

That's an even more compelling reason to change platform. You don't want to do a several year project with a technology partner that can unilaterally change the terms of the contract at their whim.

 

If we believe the management is just incompetent/greedy/out of touch with the reality, it's lesser of evils. It might be that they don't see any conceivable ways to make profit in the current situation. In this case, it makes perfect sense to cook soup from whatever fish happened to be stuck in the tank now, and make no plans for tomorrow. If this evaluation is correct, then even if they revert, apologize, etc., still it means the company is in dire straits, and there is little hope for the "better future".

 

i think this is good info about ironsource)

 

Could you send a screenshot of what yours looks like?
Cause I only have their 5 channels, and none of them can be commented on.

 

I was referring to the threads where you could interact by using the chat function.

 

I

All my channels are there

 

Microsoft or Nintendo might

 

https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-216#post-9331643
BRUH I shared that

Check also the new Bellular news about it, they are unity dev, so they have vested interest in sorting that out

 

Thank you.
How odd. I wonder why I dont have access to the Discussion section anymore.