Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Nevermind then, game development isn't an Industry according to Unity. So stupid.

 

No its not true.

 

Anyone that says u'll pay 5% at Unreal anyway might as well compare a Rolls-Royce to a Toyota Camry. If unity was Unreal I'm fine with paying 12%

 

I just wanted to check my account registration time.

 

I'm telling you: I work at a game studio and we are being pushed onto industrial by Unity (i.e. we didnt ask) because we have made more than $1,000,000. Not enterprise, but industrial. We only have 4 seats so we cant get enterprise. So if youre a small studio, it seems as though just paying 5k a seat allows you to skip runtime fee altogether.
I dont know if this will continue to be Unity's policy moving forward, but at the moment, for our studio, there is no situation we can be in where the runtime fee could apply to us. At each level we are pushed by unity onto the next level up where there is no runtime fee. Take from this whatever you would like.

 

Well Unity reps can make up any custom deal they want but get it in writing that you qualify.

 

People, I just entered the FAQ and I found this:
"What is the Unity Runtime Fee?
We are introducing a Unity Runtime Fee that applies to certain Unity subscription plans based on per-game installs across any Unity-supported game platform. Creators only pay once per download."

Are they clarifying that it will be due to downloads or installations? They clarify that the creator will only pay for the download, so was there a change?!


https://unity.com/pricing-updates#unity-runtime-fee

 

I don't think this is right

 

Downloads are even greater then unique installations. It has had that wording for awhile.

 

I mean, if Unity Industry has No Runtime Fee and the Requirement for Industry is your Studio's revenue of $1M+, Then having a table showing a runtime fee for people who's Individual games are over $1M, is completely pointless

And this whole run-time fee is nothing but Pointless negative publicity for Unity

Surely - Just having a Table that Included a Column for Industry licenses would've been enough

So should've just been based on revenue:

<$100k - Free
Between $100k and $200k - Plus (Also needed to Publish to Mobile)
Between $200k and $1M - Pro
Over $1M - Industry

(Don't see the point of enterprise)

Don't see why all this drama really needed to happen if it's simply about licenses (since license before required you to transfer off Free once you hit $100k).

 

Everyone still arguing about licenses or numbers didn’t get the point.

Unity wants to be able to change the terms of service at anytime, even retroactively and on top of this they want to charge fees based on fantasy numbers.

Mr CEO wants to play the Godfather??

 

source2 is out, and its editor is too! it's just overshadowed by other solutions because it's basically designed exclusively for 3D RPG games.

 

I really don't want to get into this, and I think it highly unlikely, but there are sources on Twitter saying Unity was looking into how to change pricing last year, multiple Unity employees have mentioned knowing about the actual price changes for some time ( unclear how long) but also the original post of this thread was create back on Aug 22 2023. So I'm not sure its as clear cut to say that at the time of the sales this plan was unknown.

 

I’m just popping in to remind Unity we’ve started migrating Blocky Ball to Godot and are so far LOVING Godot!

Oh our license that was due to renew in October has been canceled! Forgot to mention that part.

Ya we’ll pull our title for a bit of migration. No biggee.

 

This exactly. The per-install fee, as dumb as it is, is not the big issue here.

 

Yup, regardless of what happens, the damage is already done.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were true. Unity had to have realized a long time ago that their business model was not sustainable.

 

I like to post this in here every once and a while to make sure it doesn’t get lost on the noise:

https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ackaging-updates.1482750/page-45#post-9297488

> “Our terms of service provide that Unity may add or change fees at any time. We are providing more than three months advance notice of the Unity Runtime Fee before it goes into effect. Consent is not required for additional fees to take effect, and the only version of our terms is the most current version; you simply cannot choose to comply with a prior version. Further, our terms are governed by California law, notwithstanding the country of the customer. ”

 

Not profitable isn't a good indicator. If CEO made $1mill and paid himself $700k and employees $300k the company is not profitable, but the CEO still was profitable.

 

We don't need this kind of attitude here.

 

Tell you what. You guys have fun trying to decipher all this gobbledygook to learn how much Unity is gonna f u.

I'll just be off making games in other engines now. Thank you very much.

I'll check back in a year or so to see if you and/or Unity figured any of this sh*t out.

Later!

 

Unity offers an optional cloud based build service. It's actually pretty useful in certain situations such as if you're developing and have long build times for whatever reason. The build time is referring to that, where it used to be entirely paid they're giving complimentary time on the service.

Just like things like MARS it's one of those add on's Unity is bloated with these days that offer very niche value but can be highly profitable for those in development limbo. You can probably just ignore it, but if they're giving build minutes for any platform it's actually a really nice way to get access to making builds for iOS without purchasing a mac.

 

Yeah the unity dev tools that includes all those build minutes is actually fantastic. Whenever I want to test a new build, I just push the code to unity version control and it starts building the new version.200 free build minutes is just a really nice thing.

 

Maybe they'd be more sustainable if they stuck to their core business and stopped (e.g.) buying/merging with random companies that catch the CEO's eye.

Unity has 5000 more employees than Epic but seems to produce far less.
ed: whoops typo.

 

Unity's core business never turned a profit.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/unitys-incredible-shrinking-growth-story-this-week-in-business

 

Look, I understand all the running for the doors, but for many that is not an option for many reasons. To those who are going to stay but are worried about what potential effects this could have on you, I advise you to reach out to Unity reps. If you are a small studio with small profits, the reps have many ways they can help you.

I am not apologizing for or defending this new pricing model. At all. Its overcomplicated, bizarre and seemingly a legal grey area all around. Dont mistake what I'm saying for defense of this decision.

I'm saying: if you are concerned, you should contact your rep. They have great motivation to keep you on board, now more than ever, and this whole fiasco is essentially a bargaining chip in your favour. You do have sway with reps. See what they can do for you. Its very possible these runtime fees will never ever apply to you.

 

Multiple employees have made it clear that they were ignored when they raised concerns internally. I wouldn't be that confident in a representative being able to help you. We'll have to wait and see though. We don't even have a legal document on this yet. Until then it's all speculative. They could reverse stance very easily.

 

The problem with Unity's core business has never been revenue (although they could probably increase revenue in various ways), it's always been cost. Too much headcount, too much management, and a C-suite that makes off like bandits, paying themselves obscene amounts relative to their continued lack of success.

 

I don't think you fully understand the problem here. Unity's inability to be sustainable goes back before there was a C-suite. It includes as far back as the very early days of Unity. Back when it was a handful of developers in [insert some meme place developers work before they have a formal office].

 

hahaha.
well is Pretty obvius that they are making changes, maybe they are going to change that, it does not have any sense, game devs on industrial xD

 

I have been checking the docs and conditions of all the options out there in depth and I can tell you this:

Godot will be the next indie darling as Unity was in 2012.
Unity couldn't find a worse moment in time to F*** its community up, because now Godot exists and it will be to game development what Blender is to 3D apps, and I tell you that as a former Unity fanboy.
The Unity debacle has ignited the Godot era for real.

Don't waste your time anymore, start porting to Godot asap.

Read the manual and you will understand.

 

That means you should do your core business better, not spend billions on random businesses that aren't going to generate any revenue.

The big list of companies that Unity has bought is:

• Vivox, a cross-platform voice and text chat provider
• game analytics company deltaDNA
• live game management platform ChilliConnect
• 3D application streaming service Furioos creator Obvioos
• Artomatix,[43] a company that develops an AI-assisted material creation tool called ArtEngine.
• Codice Software, who make the distributed version control system Plastic SCM.
• Finger Food Advanced Technology Group for $46.8 million.
• RestAR, a computer vision and deep learning company
• Pixyz Software, a developer of 3D data optimization technology
• Weta Digital for $1.63 billion in November 2021
• Ziva Dynamics, a Vancouver-based VFX company.
• and finally IronSource

So which of those businesses helped make Unity3D a better product appealing to more devs and which were just cocaine fueled fever dreams that the existing users are now being asked to pay for?

 

lol, a really bad idea

 

Again all of this goes back to before they even had billions to spend. There is a reason it's "never" rather than "only recently haven't" when talking about turning a profit.

 

This is my point, dont make rash decisions based on the random chunks of information we currently have. Wait for further information, contact Unity reps and ask what they are going to do to keep you around. They can and do help you out. They have for us, historically.

This isn't necessarily the death sentence a lot of people think it is for them. Again, its a terrible business decision and a fiasco from top to bottom, but there is plenty you can do to avoid the horrendous hypothetical situations that have been talked about and analyzed so far.

 

godot is cute, but not a decent alternative for devs who wants to make better games than low poly things... Of course i will be happy if godot offered better suport for mobiles, but even in that, it is inferior than flax and that is too much

 

They cant turn a profit when the CEO will absorb the profit. It's his bonus

 

I discovered Unity in the late 2000's. I was looking for a game engine that was both free and powerful. When I found Unity, I was absolutely delighted.

Fast-forward a few years, when Mr. Riccitiello came in as the CEO. I was very concerned when I heard some things about him, but nothing bad immediately happened, so I chose to continue with Unity.

As time passed, I noticed some users were getting disgruntled about Unity. I didn't think much of it, since maintaining and updating an engine had to be a lot of work. There might be some bumps, but I could live with those.

But then, three bombshells were dropped at once. Unity merged with ironSource, a company people associated with malware. The in-house game being developed to identify Unity's weaknesses was scrapped. And Mr. Riccitiello made it very clear that Unity was going to focus on ad revenue, and that anyone who disagreed with that was an idiot.

That was when I decided to bail. I might have been able to handle the game cancellation and the new focus on ad revenue (maybe), but the ironSource merge? I DIDN'T want people to think any of my games had malware. I also didn't want to take the chance something scummy would be put in my games.

Well, it looks like my choice was a wise one. I could not believe it when I found out what the new payment plan is. I have seen some very bad decisions made by businesses, but this wins the prize, hands down. It is insanity. It is toxic. How on earth did this ever get approved?!

Mr. Riccitiello, you betrayed your employees and your customers. You betrayed companies who relied on Unity and are now scrambling to avoid an unmitigated disaster. You betrayed the gaming community.

Quite frankly, I think the only way Unity could be saved now is if you made it open-source, and placed it in the hands of someone with exemplary honesty.

But you won't do that. Indeed, I would even say you CAN'T do that. You have been consumed by pride. It has become your master.

Barring some miracle, I will not be coming back. This is my last post on the Unity forums. To all the honest developers who have been devastated by this change, I wish you didn't have to go through this. I wish this never had happened.

I will pray for you. I might not be able to stop this, but I can do that much.

 

Easy solutions
- add maximum cap for the fees (for example 5%, so you never end up paying 200% of your income)
- extra: add separate levels for f2p games
- start answering questions now, not next week
- CEO must leave in any case (to repair trust, although damage is already done)
*- written agreement that TOS cannot be retroactively changed (you are bound to the editor version that you are using)

Questions
- how many hours of work per month it is to report your income & monitor the incoming fees? (knowing that for example unity cloud dashboard is so slow and buggy, that you would waste literally hours reporting your income on similar systems)
- if user gets too high install fee, do they have to pay invoice first and then wait several weeks for support to reply and start checking for the case?
- what is the due date for those fees? (for example it takes time to get money out from steam or other market places, and you want to pay bills on the time that fits your book keeping) and what fees there are if you miss payment?
- you need to say exactly how your install counter works

Most important
- CEO must be kicked out (and others who contributed to this mess)
*- written agreement that TOS cannot be retroactively changed (you are bound to the editor version that you are using)

*edit: added about TOS changes

 

I mean yes, of course they never made a profit when they had few customers. That's common sense.

The point is as they got customers, rather than consolidating and building on that growth, they borrowed against it and went on a massive company buying spree.

Unity was fairly close to profitability in Q4 last year. They could have easily hit the mark if they weren't being weighed down by all the extra cruft they bought that no one uses.

One example: How many Unity users are going to use Plastic SCM? Larger companies almost certainly already have a system in place that they're using and smaller devs are just going to use GitHub. That's just one example of a product that is never ever going to make back they money they paid for it. And that's a tiny example, compared to the billion dollar + spend on Weta Digital and Zeva Dynamics.

What was the plan to get them to return anywhere near a billion dollars?

 

I wasn't clear enough, but "always" here was meant to apply to the current incarnation of the company. Yes, there were other problems before becoming a publicly traded entity. Those aren't necessarily relevant today. The problems that most apply today are spending and culture.

 

Unity had at least a million developers prior to the current CEO.

 

It's not about the specifics, its about trust. How can they possibly rebuild trust after previously promising 'we won't ever force TOS changes onto you again' and then doing it again?

 

I don't see how that's relevant to anything I've said. He's a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

Ed: actually wait no, he joined in 2014 and immediately started buying random S***. he's definitely part of the problem.

Regardless, a million customers with most of them paying very little revenue isn't enough for even a few hundred employees. It doesn't change the fact that none of the stuff that he bought either increased customers or allowed those customers to make more profitable games (and therefore bring in more revenue).

 

BTW Regarding the threat against Unity yesterday, it doesn't seem to have been mention but according to Polygon

...Unity spokesperson said in a statement. “We have taken immediate and proactive measures to ensure the safety of our employees, which is our top priority. We are closing our offices today and tomorrow that could be potential targets for this threat, and are fully cooperating with law enforcement on the investigation.​

So based on offices still being closed today, I'm very doubtful we will hear any real news and then we are into the weekend and so it will be Monday at the earliest any more information about the plans comes out.

However I'm increasingly in the camp now that this change is not being rolled back. All the worst aspects such as TOS change, retroactively including old games into the threshold/fee structure etc and 'blackbox' install estimation will remain. Most likely just some fiddling around with a few of the minor details, maybe at best Plus will return in some form.

Even with the outcry, Unity is poised to increase revenues regardless from these changes, at least short term ( next 1-2 years ). Too many of dev's are locked into imminent releases of new games, or obligations to existing clients, even to the point of eventually having to upgrade to both Pro and pay install Taxes. I'm even doubtful about any legal avenues with TOS gaining traction based on this youtube video 'Did Unity just burn it all down?

Long term revenue may well drop, there will no doubt be a minor outcry next year when Unity raise fees, if only to cover inflation, but it wont mater you are already locked in. New developers may even turn to using Unity as the numbers still sound reasonable, though ignoring the worst point of all this, the TOS rule changes is at their detriment. The only big downturn will happen if a large number of mid to large developers really do abandon Unity for new projects, that can still happen, but at which point I don't see Unity bouncing back from this fiasco.

Myself, I'm going to just try and wind down my Unity involvement, ween clients away from it, maybe even ultimately drop others. I'll spend some time looking into other engines, and really hope that any personal projects I work on can avoid Unity.

 

Just adding a cap would directly resolve this and in all cases would be same or much better than Unreal deal.

Currently without cap ranges from much worse to much better than Unreal.

 

either way, i think looking for an alternative is a better idea, this is not the first time devs are angry at unity, is not just their TOS, it is also the aged game engine, it does not have anything really good to compete, try unity 2019 LTS... you will find it very similar to 2023

 

I don't think you can really ever win that level of trust back again. Not saying you should trust them unconditionally. But Unity remains the ideal tool for a lot of people, for many reasons, and most cannot just drop everything and migrate. To these people I am saying: contact reps and get them to keep you around. Get them to make you stay. If you are making money off Unity then there are things they can do for you, and you have leverage.

 

I understand the pain everyone has been through but I seriously think it's time to let it go. Just log out, download Godot/Unreal/O3DE/whatever and start working on porting your projects. There is no easy way out of this. As so many people have already said, regardless of what's going to happen, this is the end, unless the whole upper management changes. The CEO is just one guy,even if he goes away the rot will still be there.

As I said previously, it's time to move on!