Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Yes, but we are still talking about a fairly high net earn.

 

Well, obviously you're an indie developer hoping to sell your game in retail, but most of us are F2P developers. We don't "sell" copies, we give them for free. In the end, we earn for every copy we give, but we earn cents, not dollars. That's why we sometimes spend weeks just to reduce the CPI by 1 cent.

I understand that you don't mind giving 2 cents per install because it doesn't affect your business model. Similarly, I wouldn't mind giving $100 or even $1K per purchased copy, because it wouldn't affect mine.

 

And what if I just refuse to pay?
I mean, if I dont use unity ads in my game. How would they make me pay anyway?

 

I'm done with this thread. The average IQ has plummeted after 48 hours of this announcement either naturally or from $0.20/post paid-for trolls. I got to actually go back to developing, not this S***.

 

It occurred to me that any mature studio will have a build system which automatically kicks off automated installs and testing in parallel. For example, in my non-game day job a single build results in the creation of a couple hundred new VM's and containers created, an install occurring on each, and about 16,000 automated tests executed in parallel. Afterwards the containers and VM's are destroyed.

This occurs with nightly builds on each branch, as well as manually created builds. Maybe about 1,500 installs a day, so 500k+ installs a year just as part of the internal QA process.

I saw no mention whether installs of this kind are to be counted towards install totals. You could surpass the install minimum threshold before even a demo is released to the public.

 

the post I replied to was you saying "$200k" in profit which was incorrect. Yes, that rate does not apply until after the game generates $200k, but you're mistaken if you believe that you get "$200k in profit" as the post I replied to implies.
And no, a good game will sell regardless of how it is made. Even bad games sell well with proper advertising. Unity is a catalyst and nothing more, there are other avenues available.
And again, I believe you're missing the principle behind this. The fees don't matter as much as Unity's displayed willingness to screw over devs who never agreed to these terms, and now may be forced to pay fines on games that they released years ago. Yeah, it's unlikely an older game will generate $200k yearly, but it's very likely that an older game will already be well past the 200k install threshold. Unknowingly putting an established game on sale and generating a ton of money may inadvertently screw over that dev.

 

This is a good observation...

 

This makes a lot of sense for me. As a I said a ton of posts before the real target of suits are the whales in mobile market.

Unity doesn’t care about standalone games, it’s pretty hard to hit the 1M copies sold, and for developers pay 0.2$ per copy is so much better than pay 5% of the game price, it’s not a big deal.

Things change when the game makes millons $ in IAPs and Ads because your business model is F2P, you can reach the threshold very easy and you ARPU is really far from the 0.2$ fee, you have no chance of make it profitable at least you accept their AD switch conditions.

 

I see it happening to some extent. When people buy new phones, apps on their old phones can be reinstalled automatically. This counts as an install on a new device I assume.

 

This is a temporary solution to the problem - it may happen with the higher threshold, but in theory Unity can get all your money and on top of that you will owe them. Those in-game purchases won't be a constant flow of money, they may stop at some time. While your game is free, the downloads may increase and you will have a situation where to save yourself you need to remove the game from the store.

 

I don't think so.

Stock manipulation is a serious offence, and likely to get you into trouble with the SEC.

It is possible it is a bait-and-switch with a more reasonable set of terms in a few days, but I also think this is unlikely. I tend to follow Hanlon's Razor - when in doubt, assume ignorance over malice.

In this case, Unity needs money, Unity doesn't cover it's core engine costs with its core engine revenues - it costs them a not insubstantial amount of money each year (likely around 900 to 1400 million dollars skimming their quarterly filings) which they don't get back.

Unity's C-Suite thought this would work, and also thought while there would be drama, it would blow over eventually, and everyone would be obedient and pay.

Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to be the case - they have possibly done material damage to the organisation and ignored risks. There is a case if this does long term damage to Unity's shareholder value they could eventually face a shareholder lawsuit for ignoring the risk; but those rarely succeed.

No, I think this is just greed and ignorance, with a bit of wishful thinking thrown in.

 

No they do not. They owe unity a Pro membership and no dime more.

Like I get it, the install thing is iffy. But I have yet to see a real example with real accurate numbers. And until someone show it to me, I will stick to my guns and wait if things really are that bad.

Yes, saying 'but does actually affect you?' sounds like a trolling gotcha question, but it isnt. It is better than these made up WRONG scenarios. Because just like your example, people are saying BS stories.

If things are really that bad yall have no need to be making stuff up. 'OMG, if im successful turns out I owe unity a billion dollars!'

Well, from where i sit, with my calculator Unity is still a better than deal than Unreal. Yall may not like it but math is math.

 

Great info and link to the post. We will definitely be looking for our own legal counsel. As the law firm states: "It is far from clear that these changes will be enforcable" is a good sign.

 

????

Because there are no other engines out there? FFS dude.

Unity is changing the rules retroactively for people like myself that have 6+ years invested in development.. You cant retroactively destroy the value-proposition of 6 years of work based on a licensing agreement they and us signed up for and not excpect it to go up in flames.

Pretty clear to me you are just here to troll so moving on.

 

The Law won't step in and stop this. They will ask you to pay a fee based on terms you didn't agree to, and you will say no, and then in court we will see if their claims are enforcable or not. Likely not.

 

Because Unigine is proprietary, doesn't even allow to change the splash screen in it's free version and because any engine with a price tag of "contact us" in its paid form is automatically discarded.
If I go the proprietary engine way, I'll go with Unreal.

Now it's your turn: why go with Unigine instead of Unreal? (honest question here, I'm exploring all the possibilities)

 

I was just about to post the same question. It's not mentioned anywhere in that FAQ about pricing.

Even if they ban Unity accounts, everyone can just create a new personal Unity account and continue developing/distributing. Is Unity's legal team going to sue every indie developer everywhere across the world? Or online stores (Steam, Google Play, etc.) will be removing games on Unity's request if developers refuse to pay?

 

Installs. That they are going to “calculate” / make up.

 

On page 152 of the complaints, here you are arguing against the rest of the industry.

Feel free to continue developing games in Unity where each build is tracked and Unity publicly shamed by gamers, publishers and tech companies.

I guess you don't mind exposure to fake install bots?

 

Yes, retroactivity is a very incorrect move and in this I think they really made a bad move.

 

Unless you paid 70K in taxes, 30K to Play Store/App Store, and another 20K into expenses (assets, licenses). that leaves you with 80K, and Unity demands 40K for those 200,000 installs. In this realistic scenario, you have worked for a long time and risked a lot, for barely any profit made.

 

Agreed. Plus demo's that can be upgraded to the full version will also be charged. I have tried many upgradable demos that I didn't end purchasing (I'm sure there's statistics out there showing the average % of purchases for games made based on the demo, but lets just say its around 10% or lower.) That can put you in the negatives financially very fast.

So the solution would be...? Create the demo separate from the full game (no in-app purchase to open up the full game.) How will they differentiate a demo from a full game?

 

If I'd get any fee request other than the subscription fees as per older TOS that I agreed to, I would right away hire a lawyer and sue Unity.

 

The solution would be to not use Unity.

 

Same here. I've started downloading all of the high dollar content assets that I've purchased over the years because as far as I understand the asset store agreement allows it to be used outside of Unity.

 

you ... your really think this is about the money?

We don't care about the money, we care that they dropped this one us, changed the TOS and then here in the forums have said that their former TOS no longer apply even though their TOS used to say you can use which ever TOS your current edition of unity is applied to, so if you have 2021.x you are not beholden to the new updates.

it's about the fact that they have not disclosed how they intend to track installs, all we know right now is that UNITY has all the information and we have to trust them, if they disclose how they track installs maybe i'll change my tune but until then I don't want to ship a game that could contain potential malware (considering they bought a malware company like a year ago)

it's the fact that they're attitude towards developers has been hostile for nearly 5 years, their CEO even calling us "F***ing idiots" for not wanting to monetize our games out the ass with microtransactions and all that EA crap.

if you think it's all about the install fee you haven't been paying attention to what this all actually means.

 

See?

No, you get Pro. Like, cmon yall. I dont wanna defend Unity. But if I really wanna make a decision where literally thousand of dollars are on the line I NEED yall to argue real points. And raise real concerns we need to take into account.

90% of the thread could deleted because it is people talking out their asses with no real basis.

You dont take the Pro into account, you dont take the fact install prices fall off into account, you dont take the fact using Unity service reduces stuff.

Like, yall dont like it. I am suspicious of the install thing but it wouldnt affect me cuz chances are I could just use Steam data for sales.

The one time you cant be hotheaded is when there are literally thousand of dollars on the line. A lot of people will probably waste a lot of time and money porting their game to another engine and there is a very real possibility of they paying more at the end of it.

I dont have to like Unity as an enterprise. If my choices is getting shot in the arm or in the head, well F me. Arm it is. I wont start screaming at the dude with gun until he does both just because he shouldnt do that.

Yes, there is a very literal possiblity this response will age really badly. But doesnt change the fact that right now, this second, with the answers and clarification available right now the answer is still UNITY still the best engine for me (and 97.8%) of users.

 

Unless they retroactively change that too

 

Do you even read the replies you receive? Read them. They're the cure for your information insufficiency.

What are you, the indie developers, gonna do after we the F2P guys, leave you here alone with John? Don't you think he'll come up with another pricing scheme that completely destroys your business model?

 

but unity doesn't see any of the whale money. it's a flat fee per install.

 

Yeah.. would they sue me here in Brazil? I definitely doubt it.

 

it is the logical and natural choice: better graphics, better tech, better performance and most important, c# way too similar to unity's c# and BTW unity's free version does not allows you to change the splash screen either, i do not have any problem with that, that has been proven to not cause any problems... Also, unreal is not exactly better than unity and in fact unreal is not good for 1 guy studios, unreal is more like a trend now and many many devs will find out that is not exactly better

 

I have the same thoughts.

The unfortunate thing is, I've spent way too much money on assets over the years that I am truly regretting because: 1) many have been deprecated, 2) publishers have changed to a greedy subscription model, 3) many of them will be unusable in the engine I end up choosing.

I'm going to be investigating them tonight since I feel like moving may be my only choice and I may just have to swallow my losses.

 

LOL, NO.
I've been paying Unity since Unity 3, all my framework and graphic pipeline is custom made in Unity for Unity and I have been developing my current Unity game since 2017 approx.

It has been a really tough decision to make, but I'm quitting Unity simply because I can't trust them anymore.
My peace of mind in the long run is well worth all the work to switch engines now, no doubt.

 

Yeah if you volunteer for this pricing model you are knowingly accepting that they have the right to take any amount of money from you arbitrarily at any time. We are all severely deep into Unity and Unity is a well developed system but going deeper with them now is suicidal.

If they continue to turn a loss, they will just crank the screws tighter and demand more. Why not? Why shouldn't you pay the tens of millions for their CEO bonuses and bad management decisions?

You are giving them free reign to take whatever they want from you until you or they or both of you are dead.

 

Interesting article form Casey Muratori:
https://www.computerenhance.com/p/game-development-post-unity

 

I mentioned this yesterday but it needs repeating: Unigine has almost no platform support. There is no mobile or console support, and there is no macOS support. It's Windows and Linux only. It's intended for engineering and simulation apps where that's not a problem.

 

I'm not familiar with Unigine either, Using C# sounds great but what is the learning curve like and are there good learning resources?

 

Imagine how unity would feel if WebGL decided to charge unity per game that is made on their platform lolol

 

I've been trying to write a reply to all of this, but I have no words. What an absolute dumpster fire, I don't even know where to begin. I'm just baffled, how did anyone think this would go over well?

 

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. There is no way you can count installs correctly ever. This is also a trust issue. They can anytime change the threshold and the amounts per install. So just stop talking out of your own ass.

 

Too bad their terms say nothing about profit and only revenue, and installs.

 

Unity has implemented the ability to revoke your license. Electronically. That is why they are forcing people to be connected now and our games to have DRM and be connected. Because they have the remote ability to shut down the runtime executable and your ability to use the editor.

So dont pay your bill. If its small and you arent a corp.. they will likely move on. If you are a corp like myself and have other assets, they will hit you with a simple ROI formula.. Their legal costs vs potential for recovered income.. And decide to proceed.

 

Double precision out of the box, I believe. Unigine is used for spacebourne, you can work on planetary scale there. Actually, on solar system scale. You can't do that in Unreal.

 

There are a ton of engines supporting C# if that's your criteria.

 

Pretty much this. This change doesn't affect me at all as I wouldn't breach thresholds, but this sets a precedent that I'm not happy agreeing to.

 

In fact, how these variants will be calculated remains a dangerous and unclear unknown.

 

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THIS!

 

Maybe this is all just to make the unity logo a mark of shame so disgusting, you would gladly pay $2400 to keep it off your splash screen and a secret.

 

The writing was on the wall when they went after third part developers a few years ago. IT was a BS deal and we should have seen it clearer for what it was.