Official Unity plan pricing and packaging updates

Do you have a source on this? I've been looking at how they could define an install (on a technical level, not a philosophical one). Because I was going on the assumption that concepts like DLC or even auto downloaded updates/patches should have the potential to trigger a new install. Or to flip this around, for the ability to utilize asset bundles in a single release with in app purchases to release multiple games under one label and have just one installation for multiple games.

But so far, Unity seems to be saying they don't want to reveal what specifically is an install, which gives them more deniability on the numbers, but is basically useless to developers. Imagine being a dev and releasing an update that can potentially trigger an installation charge on every single user you have.

 

I just thought about another very bad case : a dev who sold all the rights of his Unity game to a publisher.

If Unity goes after the publisher, he'll tell Unity to GTFO coz he never had any contract with Unity.

So Unity will go after the "creator", ie: the Unity license owner, so the dev who doesn't make any money anymore from his game, but could be billed millions of dollars by Unity.

I have never seen so much nonsense in 30 years in the industry. Unity, you outdid yourself, congratulations.

 

That's bullshit. Learn how to read.

It's LITERALLY described in FAQ. When you reach your 200k$ 3kk installs you'll switch to Pro and will increase limits to 1kk$ and 1kk installs!

 

Sounds like someone who's pissed at a game developer for a ban or whatever can pretty easily get revenge on that developer if they understand Unity's new revenue model.

It is probably also possible to do something like this on Windows using a virtual machine, making just excluding Linux or Proton not a real solution. Figure out what can be changed in the VM to report a different device, which is probably the same stuff Unity uses when you call SystemInfo.deviceUniqueIdentifier, then just script its change and reinstall (or probably just launch) over and over.

Since it doesn't look like we'll even have access to view Unity's aggregated install data, we can't even report to Unity when install numbers look suspicious. You just have to wait for the bankruptcy inducing bill to arrive. Even if Unity clears it up once, from the way they describe their install data collection they won't even be able to give you a clue who is attacking your company. This is a potential nightmare.

 

Since I learned about the change, I have been seriously trying to understand what logic it follows. I can not see any.

Why such a complicated licensing model? With this model you have problems with correct measurement and fraud? It generates completly unpredictable costs. Why not a simple model like Epic?

Why the hell should I pay for a user that I haven't earned a penny from and will almost certainly never earn from? Who comes up with such a hare-brained idea that is far from any reality?

I can't get rid of the feeling that decisions are being made here lately by hot air producers who have no idea about practice. How about a working engine before asking for more? How about real innovation before you lose the connection completely? It's time for a new CEO, otherwise I don't see a bright future.

 

Just read Unity's FAQ carefully. Your defending is contradicting Unity's own statement.....

 

I'm not sure what you mean... "you will not have any profits especially when you work in the mobile game industry". Most of us are making careers in the mobile gaming industry to make profit right?

 

Oh I think I know. He's waiting for Unity's stock to implode so he can buy all the shares back and take it private again. He's actually a genius.

 

He means you will have a hard time to be profitable...

 

Share this as much as you can:

<3 Theo

 

No, I mean 100% free games, without purchases or advertising. Just playing, I have a few experiences like this on Playstore and I'm curious if I will also fall into this developer trap. As someone said before, you still have time Unity, don't let this ship that carries so many dreams and hopes sink.

 

"Unique install" is a concept that is entirely meaningless unless it is synonymous with "purchase" -- but even that is besides the point. Actions like deleting the TOS Github and forcing this change retroactively prove that this is not a policy made in good faith. I am beyond disappointed at the absolute disrespect and disregard for countless peoples' livelihoods.

 

this account joined late, I didn't.

 

All trust in Unity is now gone. This is their Don Mattrick Xbox moment, and they never recovered from that. At least it removes Unity from the equation when trying to decide which game engine to use.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If they don't drop the installs stance within the next 24 hours, they are finished. Even if they do drop it, the damage is now done, they'll never recover from this.

 

Now try doing some for mobile games. Value between $0.02 and $0.20 per PLAYER (not this murky trust-me-bro "install"). So Unity are taking over 100% of free-to-play mobile game revs, bankrupting the sector

 

Well I see you're just ignoring facts. @hippocoder @LeonhardP here's the guy intentinally ignore facts and spreading false information.

 

The fact that this applies to past licence agreements, even when their own faq said it wouldn't is bad. They need to revert this. The entire idea of installs is bad.

 

so who is going to create the first asset on the asset store that charges $0.2 per unique run of the game on the machine?

shift the cost to the players, right unity? am i doing good papa?

 

I see two possible outcomes right now, both are bad for the unity, industry & partially us.
1) They stick with the plan and realize that no one wants to use unity anymore. Games are being deleted from the store (like the cult of the lamb), no new titles are announced, unity is being used as a non-profit, educational & retrospective tool. Effectively means a significant drop in the company income. Laidoffs starting, and there are no more new developers coming. The end is clear.
2) They withdraw the entire idea, apologize, and try to rebuild what has been destroyed. It will take some time, but the result should not be as dramatic as in the previous variant.

Because I have a vivid imagination I sometimes like to dream while awake. Imagine this scenario:
Someone at the headquarters has a tiny little bit of reason in his brain. Because of that, the company is firing John, revisiting their investments as well as focus (I totally do not get the focus on MARS, offline filmmaking, weta tools, etc. - how much revenue it generates, when it will start, and how big? Did we asked for it? Is it worth?) and try to save what's left focusing on the game development, eating its own dog food.

Yeah well, it was a blast anyway

 

You are right. I have opened a pull request.
It's more like 100k in that scenario (there are also some other issues with it.

 

The odds of Joachim supporting this madness is approximately 0%, but it's not like he can say so publicly. No need to call the man out unless we find evidence that he's involved (but in the very unlikely event that he is, then, and only then, it would be apt to call him out viciously--he was the one who wrote the blog post on Unity's commitment not to blindside us with TOS changes after all.)

 

I actually could see this being good in the long run 5 years+. Open source engines like Godot and Bevy will advance faster and indies will move to them.

 

Do you not make enough money unity? I mean if that's the case just say so but yeah..... I want a refund for all my assets.
LETS TALK ABOUT THE CAFOFO assets unity sense you even handled that i still haven't gotten a reply from support about that its funny and we should trust you will support devs on pirated install cant even support the asset store... Yea i would like a refund on all my assets. Time to move to UNREAL

 

I'm curious. In their FAQ here (before it was edited, which they have done within the last 15 minutes of me writing this), they write:

But it's been posted on Twitter that:

And now they've just updated the FAQ to the following:

So what changed? Unity had a technical limitation. What happened to that? Are you now collecting end-player information?

 

To say nothing is just the same as to agree in such a case. like with changes of ToS if you continue on you are just ok with all the changes made.

 

What false information?

 

they are just making S*** up as they go, nothing changed lol

 

Yeah, I have gone over my numerous issues with the new install fee plan but that github calculator is completely wrong since it's accounting for retroactive charges, not charges once you pass the threshold.

 

Since they say that now it's only one installation per user that counts, they should stop beating around the bush and do it per sale, not per installation.

If that's what they mean, then there's no problem with flatly increasing by $0.20 or $0.01 PER SALE, right? That way, we as developers can know exactly how much and how we pay, or even raise the game's price by that amount.

Besides, in microtransactions, Unity would earn much more by charging a flat fee per microtransaction than per installation, and there would be no need to mess around with tracking installations, just request sales/revenue breakdown reports.

 

We had to learn unity at one time in history, should not be a problem learning a new engine that offers the source code for free like unreal, will Unity do the same

 

Let's agree, delete this table. Take 5% from every game we make, this topic and correspondence seems to be going on for a long time.
When we reach 100k, let's switch to pro, apart from that, let's give 5% from every game we make. TOPIC CLOSED.

 

He means he is also smarter than angry employee (Just check the Blind)

 

And if for whatever reason (holiday, hospital, personal life) you cannot upgrade to Pro for a month or more, you can end up ruined without a penny left.

 

Of course i do not mind unity to earn more money but this new install fee system is not a good idea at all. ( understatement).


We developed a mobile word puzzle game in 48 languages. We want people to play in their own language, even when there are not many people speaking it.


Of course we need revenue but many people playing our game are playing in countries where ecpm is very low. For example, many of our players are from ukraine. We will not earn 20 cents from these players, and that was ok for us.


But these install fees will cost us money as soon as we also hit the revenue mark. This install fee policy will make it hard for us to release such a game as this one again.


Unity will decide which kind of games we will have to make when we dont want to lose money. Thats a bad thing, unity, you are a tool maker and not a share holder in our companies.


We will also be dependent on install and revenue data unity will be providing. We have had bad experiences with unity asking us to move to pro because they told us we made a lot of revenue which wasnt true at all. Now we will be dependent on this company to decide if we will earn money or end up on the street as homeless. We already have enough stress as mobile developers


Also unity mentions it only affects 10 percent. Many people start with unity and have a dream of learning and becoming a game developer. I am not sure if these people will still be motivated to learn unity when they know what happens when they start making more money.


So please unity, please think again and come up with something better.

 

And cancel the subscription fees then.

 

https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-123#post-9312161
https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-124#post-9312383
https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-124#post-9312422
Check this
https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-124#post-9312335
https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...ckaging-updates.1482750/page-124#post-9312416

And calculator he is using also incorrect
https://github.com/skidvis/unity-fee-calculator/issues/1

 

Yeah it's the short term that's brutal. I am just now looking at Stride which doesn't have video player support on iOS. Then Cocos which doesn't have video player rendering to UI element texture. And Godot which seems to have no good "UIElements" type C# style UI system.

We all got complacent that Unity had everything we need and all these other systems have massive holes all over them as a result. In 3 years they will all be amazing, but for now we are all going to get F***ed in a variety of ways or have to handcode our own solutions for so many missing features we have been able to take for granted with Unity.

 

Can you clarify how the revenue is computed?

Revenue coming from the app sales?
Revenue of the company I worked for as a freelancer?

What if I make a free game that integrates as a module in a native free app that installs over 1M in lifetime for a company that is above the threshold?

 

I guess the likely hundreds or even thousands of Unity employees fighting these changes internally are all complicit too.

/s

 

That's the sensible thing to do assuming they can get accurate sales reports from platforms like itch.io, or tap into other's yards (Game Pass). Automatically accounts for demos/free games/piracy/etc. But even this is a bit feeble.

I'd personally take revenue share any day over per-install / per-sale fees. Which doesn't mean I would take it from Unity, since other engines that use a revenue share model have a much higher price/value ratio for me.

 

All revenue of any kind from your game. It is per game.

 

No way im gonna release my almost finished game under your new terms, even if it will not be a cheap one. I DONT TRUST YOU. Rather i might take a year more to get away from your engine and scam pricing BS.

 

The CTO and co-founder isn't your average employee to be fair. Also they are proposing measuring installs which from a technology stand point isnt feasible. Seems to fall in his domain.

 

I would personally rather a flat fee. Because even if the cost is high, once you save up money to pay it and are done, you are no longer punished for your success after that. That is the most aspirational business model. Develop for free. Pay a flat fee on launching the app. Reap all the profits for yourself.

That motivates you to make a game. I don't want them siphoning a percent of my revenue for the rest of my life OR bankrupting me if I don't make enough money per download. Both of those are depressing as F*** and I'd rather try to build my own game engine or fork an existing one than submit to that.

 

These are nonsense! You are missing the main point:
- what if someone pays me for 1 copy only and installs 100000 copies into virtual machines?
- how will unity detect an "install"? will my build send information to unity? what information is that? what kind of licence should I offer to my players? and, will this aspect drop my potential player counts, ruining my business?
- what happens if I publish the game, but withdraw it before it makes $200000, and publish an Unreal ported version after that, while all of the Unity copies out there, copied, and installed more and more? what actions does unity take to protect me from their own system? How should I trust Unity about this? Show me some proof, right? You change the terms and show me some real proof that you can accurately make fraudulent detection, right? Where is that? Look at the entry in the first page: they use the word: "starting point". They do not have any idea about how to manage this matter. Does this go off when you talk about tiers?

This is the main point! And we hear nothing from people like you for these, instead you all trying to make the amount like a disney toy! Are you even developing games? I don't think so. I think you are paid to say these things.

The main point here is: when you switch to pro account, these considerations do not go off. Money is one ridiculous thing, but these consequences are much more ridiculous. If all of these thing become real as is, Unity themselves will become the fraudulent.

So, who ever defends this is another fraudulent, and probably paid by the main fraudulent!

 

The calculator has an error. The numbers are wrong. But the principle stays. You are going to pay for installs, that you have no way of verifying. That number is decided based on what Unity said "at their sole discretion", and based on a method you appreciate Unity will not explain to you (based again, on what they said). The problem is not that there is a limit of 200,000 installs. The problem is that not even Unity can know or perhaps even should know this number (as they might be violating privacy laws) and even can reasonably prove its accuracy.

 

Another horror here (possibly already talked about in this unwieldy thread). The pricing boundaries means the more you sell, the lower your relative overheads. As such, game design needs to shift to all about being super popular or super niche. Either don't break 200,000 sales a year - pull the game from the market when you hit that landmark! - or push and push for >1 million installs a month to reduce costs to a tiny fraction of what a 100,000 a month game has to pay. And really hope you don't drop one month to 950,000 instead of 1 million installs or your costs that month are up 50%.

 

Hopefully! But the numbers are far from that amount. For now we would be free from the plundering of Unity. We (unfortunately) are not part of the large developers that move millions of dollars a year. That does not mean that I am concerned that Unity has not taken into account a business model as expanded as F2P.

 

It's not automatic immediately thing. It is a businness, you count risks in advance it not just accidentelly you see grow and not forecast in advance, even if you wake up one day and your game just bomb the market you'll be 100% reached by Unity to discuss possibilities. A year ago we've reached some success with our game and Unity contacted us and asked about Pro subscription (because we've exceeded Plus limits) and provided solutions which is good compromise for us. Despite we just small indie team. I get people anger here, I'm personally don't like Unity decisions happening right now, but most people just blindly rage not thinking and reading properly on hype, and that's not good.