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Unity or UDK or CryEngine or...?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Not_Sure, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    "So then we started porting nearly 30,000 asset's into CryEngine..."

    How did you suddenly end up with 30,000 assets but not even know which engine you were going with?
     
  2. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    Not true, based on what I read they just went from Unreal engine to Unreal engine, each time updating and improving assets, without really focusing on getting a finished game done.
     
  3. Swearsoft

    Swearsoft

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    It will be easier to import the assets into Unity, but if you are focusing on something that needs all these advanced features that would need to be custom made, maybe you should take the plunge and go with CryEngine. I have my reservations though. The CryEngine isn't a simple buy and use license, it just sounds like more trouble down the road.
     
  4. BrainMelter

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    They started with Quake Engine, ported to Unreal engine, and ended up with their own heavily modified version of Unreal engine.

    Nothing kills a project harder than tech switches, imo.
     
  5. Aieth

    Aieth

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    I'd think of it like this. If you've got so much riding on this, and you've already taken such a huge personal risk, I'd go with the option that means it's more likely that you actually finish. Which would be Unity. Sure, you are not going to get the visual quality of Crysis but there is a lot that can be done in Unity if you've got the skillset. Is it really worth risking so much to use CryEngine? Especially since you can't even be sure that you will get an indie license until your game is finished.

    That main gist is that you should focus on what you can actually affect. You can't do anything at all about your issues with CryEngine, all you can do is roll the dice and hope for the best, and that isn't what I would do with so much involved. With Unity you can at least affect the things that bother you. Besides, Unity does have plugins that while surely not matching CryEngine should speed up your development considerably.
     
  6. Deleted User

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    Well kind of / yes.. You have to present a demo reel to them and if they like it they think it's up to scratch they give you a license. I've seen it make a lot of Indie's nervous, but I don't think it's a massive deal.
     
  7. Deleted User

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    Multiple reasons, I had originally started building my own engine. Had this timeline not become bestowed upon me It would have been finished and originally we had the concept built in Unity. All of our asset's work as they should in UDK and Unity, so it was a shock to find so many issues with CryEngine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2013
  8. Deleted User

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    I agree in many respects, what it comes down to is the shareholders / board of directors are expecting something to be inline with next Gen technology and there's a lot of money riding on it. UDK 4 would be the ideal choice out of all of this, royalty scheme is better the new UDK they release has many of the same features as Unity. But we don't have not a clue when it's coming out..

    I think the realistic question is, how long is it going to take us to push Unity up to the levels of CryEngine?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2013
  9. Deleted User

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    Exactly, there's too much rolling the dice and hoping for the best... In some way's Unity was just as bad, performance related issues due to lag was the killer.. Also a lot of ZBuffer issues on highly detailed asset's, which also happens in UDK (Maybe less so) although we didn't use it that much but none of these issues appeared with CryEngine. There's no way we could release the game in that state.. What I can't do / want to avoid is getting bogged down spending years sorting out Unity Source code to bring it up to scratch, it's a fantastic general purpose engine with a lot of amazing tools. Perfect for so many types of games..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2013
  10. TheSniperFan

    TheSniperFan

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    Yeah, CryTek has the last word - for the better and worse.
    On the one hand it's negative since you might be stopped after months of work just like that, on the other hand it really helps the reputation of the engine if you cannot release every poorly made game with it.
    I have both the engines in my watchlist over at IndieDB and they're logical opposites of each other.
    Not counting stuff that's not going anywhere anyway, I get like 10 notifications of new games being developed with the CryEngine each month, most of which are high-quality.
    With Unity I get about 10 new games daily, most of which are either rubbish or the 10 billionth version of Slender.

    I think that if one believes in his/her project and puts in the work, there's no reason to be afraid of CryTek pulling the plug. And contrary, if they do say that your project will not see a commercial release in its current form, there should be good reasons for it. Everybody knows how hard it's to see the shortcomings of your own work. ;)

    Since I had to decide between the CryEngine and Unity too, I think I'll post what I thought at the time.

    There were two reasons for me to switch over to Unity.
    1. Graphics: The only thing that looks worse than bad graphics, are inconsistent ones. All those complex shaders and highend lighting calculations basically force you to add highres textures and highpoly models. I didn't want to put in the work to artifically make the CryEngine look worse than it could look to compensate for the assets.
    Basically, Unity looks S*** by default and you need to put in the work to make it look good. :)

    2. Ease of use. Hands down, Unity has the easiest learning curve. At least in the beginning. Getting into Unity development is comfortable, the documentation is very good and therefore the time required to produce something small is very short - even if one is new to game development.
    If one makes a large project this changes. The CryEngine might have the steeper learning curve, but both of them will require a lot of work to become efficient with them. Eventually it will make no difference once your project is large enough. Unity will have the edge when it comes to coding, while the CryEngine will have the edge when it comes to graphics/terrain/etc.

    Hop this helps.
     
  11. imtrobin

    imtrobin

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    I have only tried CryEngine briefly, but 4 years in Unity. I have developed a bigger demo with Unity, and these are the issues found.

    1. Unity.Only 1 person can edit the scene.
    CE: Can define layers for multiple people editing.

    2. Unity: 32 bit so cannot handler large scene.
    CE: 64 bit

    3. Unity: Scene file store whole prefab data ,making it very huge. It does not support nested prefab so during development, it is very annoying when meshes are updated, and prefabs get broken and needs to resetup. When opening scenes, the prefab changes merges into the scene, causing massive change in scene file.
    CE: Actor system is more complicated to setup but I don't think it suffers from this issue

    4: Unity: Deferred shading cannot use more than 4 layers so it has error "Too many pixel lights in 4 layers". Unity uses the same layer for rendering/physics. In a more complicated game, I need to split physics layers into more than 4 layers so deferred rendering becomes useless except for demo.
    CE: Not sure if they have this issue. I presume not.

    5. Unity: 4.3 is super buggy since they added Multithread rendering. I deploy my app, the NGUI will flicker, get corrupted.
    CE: Supports MT rendering

    Unity meeds to setup a lot of workflow to get visual, whereas CE works out of the box. Unity animation Mecanim is only usable in 4.3 as it can't do AnimationEvent in previous versions (but I have not yet tried to see if it's production ready).

    There are still many other issues I think these are important for you to consider depending on your size of game/platform. Unity is easier to get up and running but for bigger projects, workflow may not be as smooth as CryEngine.
     
  12. janpec

    janpec

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    If you look in English dictionary what is definition of horror/madness it says this:" Importing 30.000 assets in Cryengine."
     
  13. Swearsoft

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    The number of started projects is irrelevant, the number of finished projects is though. Everyone can post an IndieDB page.Not all projects need to have CryEngine graphics to be of high quality, actually most don't and shouldn't strive for this to be their "competitive advantage", it will end badly.
     
  14. TheSniperFan

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    I know and I agree, but I was more talking about why CryTek does this. As a company that has one of the, if not the best 3d engine out there on the market, I can see why they don't want their engine to be associated with all those projects
    As for the quality.
    Graphics are only one aspect of quality.

    I think that the best thing would be to look at the strenghts of each engine in the context of the project at hand. Since the CryEngine and Unity both have their strenghts and weaknesses, it should be worth to have a look at how much it would affect the current project.
    If you want to make a FPS with large outside environments and a dynamic day and night cycle, you'd be better off using the CryEngine.
    Of course you could also do it with Unity, but you'd loose a lot of time implementing the things the CE already has from scratch; and even then it's questionable whether you'll reach a similar quality.
     
  15. Deleted User

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    :D haha! Very true, Most of our tree's and shrubs won't import so next weeks task is make trees and veg.. Yaay! :)
     
  16. Deleted User

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    Again you have hit the nail on the head with:" but you'd loose a lot of time implementing the things the CE already has from scratch; and even then it's questionable whether you'll reach a similar quality."

    Our game is an RPG franchise, set in it's own world similar to the Witcher and Dragon age.
     
  17. Deleted User

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    I think we were hitting 2.2 GB of Ram from our last project in Unity, the 64-Bit editor is a must really.. I'd agree, I never really got mecanim working as it should so I used the legacy system. Things like the the NavMesh system was very nice and very easy to use, not sure about CE yet I've not gotten that far. It's one of those things, both CE and Unity has there flaws.

    One thing about Unity that can't be underplayed is how awesome the Unity community is.
     
  18. TheSniperFan

    TheSniperFan

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    If your biggest issue with the CE is the importing of assets, then I think you should look into it some more, because apparently others got it working.
    Once you figured out a way to reliably import assets, you can import the whole 30000. It's not like you will have to import another 30000 every day.
    You can ask for help and advice on CryDev.net too. If importing assets into the CE is such a huge pain in the ass as you describe, others will surely talked about it before and who knows, maybe there's a more comfortable way.
     
  19. squared55

    squared55

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    I think you've got this backwards. Only 4 layers can be EXCLUDED, not included.
     
  20. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    What I find really blatant about CryTek is that they give the FreeSDK to everyone, so everyone can report bugs and ask for features improvements (that will probably never get into consideration or implemented). And then they will allow you "to buy" a commercial license only if they like your project. Once you've reach that point it's like having a Unity Pro license (1500$ btw). If however they don't like your project anymore (even after buying a commercial license) they can remove your license as you are agreeing from the time you sign an agreement to all those bullshits. Nothing can protect you with such agreements.
    Really, if you want a good advice, stay away from CryTek, at least till they have similar terms and license such as the way Epic or Unity does.
     
  21. im

    im

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    i came from udk to indie

    got fed up with udk crashing all the time and their is no asset store where you can just buy things from community of authors...

    and unreal script / kismet is slow like a lame dog, 20x slower than languages like c# that are natively compiled.

    so its not even close unity all the way around cause of the editor (tools), asset store, community and c# .net and free indie and affordable royalty free pro version
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  22. Deleted User

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    Have you had first hand experience or do you know someone who has? I'd be grateful if you could share.
     
  23. MarkBenitez

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    After using all 3 I can say unity has the best workflow and is more orginized
     
  24. imtrobin

    imtrobin

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    Yes you are right. This is what you get from typing at 2am.
     
  25. tatoforever

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    I've been lurking Crytek forums since it became FreeSDK and saw lot of people complaining about their licensing system. I think page 18 (of this same thread) contains some Crytek links about people complaining and struggling to get a commercial license.
     
  26. Deleted User

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    From what I've seen they have eased up a little bit, I've seen some projects get the green light that aren't quite as shiny as Crysis for example. But still I have to agree, I'm not a fan of your work is on the line until someone says your allowed. Then you have to pay them 20% for the privilege..

    That being said, CryEngine is C# compatible which I like and it does look pretty good. Attached is a couple of concept shot's we put together, now we have a lot of the asset's in the engine we are starting to make decent progress.. At last they have released some books and proper tutorials on how to work with CryEngine.

    This is a couple of concept screenshot's from Cryengine..
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  27. janpec

    janpec

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    Heh agree, have to say over last year there has been many projects good looking actually finished with Unity engine. I cant say for one on Cryengine, or at least i havent noticed it yet (following both forums).

    Nice screens you got there from CE.
     
  28. Deleted User

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    Thanks, it took long enough :).. Another thing to consider with CE is with graphics they sky is the limit. So you keep tweaking and tweaking and before you know it your months on with little to show for it LOL!. Obviously that's a restraint issue for the developer, but with Unity I think you naturally focus on the game mechanics as opposed to what's shiny.
     
  29. Deleted User

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    So finally sorted out everything with CryEngine, so sticking with it.. Pic's updated above, now were getting used to it, there is so much to love about CryEngine, I'll always have a soft spot for Unity, it's a wicked engine by it's own accord.

    I'll still hang around, because the Unity forum dev's are legends..
     
  30. tatoforever

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    Good luck getting the license and finishing your game with CryTek! :rolleyes:
     
  31. Deleted User

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    You never know it might work out, I'll find out in about six months :)
     
  32. nipoco

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    Well if I had the budget and team, I'd also go with CryEngine, or UDK.

    Good luck with your game.
     
  33. jeffmorris1956

    jeffmorris1956

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    I think that CryEngine and UDK don't support Multi/Sub-Object materials and 3D models with more than 65535 vertices.
     
  34. ElementZero

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    Unity3d - For indie developers who want to create their own game, how they want, what they want and when they want.

    UDK - For large teams of proffesional developers who want to produce a very limited game and make a profit.

    That's my view of things, tried both, have to say that unity gives you a wider variety of what game you would want to create, while UDK is a bit confusing and made mostly for futuristic FPS's!
     
  35. TylerPerry

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    You mean Unreal Engine, UDK is not feasible for professional development of any kind.
     
  36. Deleted User

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    It definitely does support Multi - materials and the vertices limit is per mesh.

    @ Tyler, not sure what you mean by that.. I never really got too far with UDK bar import and flowgraph stuff, so I'm honestly intrigued as to what it's limitations are?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2013
  37. jeffmorris1956

    jeffmorris1956

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    Unity can import meshes with more than 65535 vertices, automatically splitting the mesh into chunks. UDK just displays a message that says:

    The model has too many vertices; the maximum is 65535. Consider splitting up the source mesh into smaller chunks.
     
  38. nipoco

    nipoco

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    It's made with UDK by four industry professionals...
     
  39. goat

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    I'm not disputing that looks OK but it seems the key to developing a good looking game is a 'rusted and needlessly complicated (except to hide the renderers shortcomings)' industrial environment using overly complicated and fictional buildings, pipelines, and machinery with obscured and non-indicative textures and then obscure that mess that's been created still further with fly-throughs at ridiculous speeds so you can't get a good look. Add in a heavy reliance on heavy fog, tinted unnatural shades of yellow, cyan, and other colors to further distract from the original non-functional industrial design concepts in the environment and you have a cutting edge game.

    Well, well. I not disputing they did a lot of copy-pasting and internet searches to come up with all those textures though. They've done a lot of work and it's as good as any big studio from what I saw.
     
  40. angrypenguin

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    Haha, that was a lot of deprecating fluff to bury one compliment, goat.
     
  41. TylerPerry

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    Looks good, but then they have to profit share with Epic IIRC.
     
  42. LucasDaltro

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    I really think engines should stop being treated like religions...after 2 years and 20 pages of posts,nobody has a decent conclusion
     
  43. goat

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    Or rather, the decent conclusion is the game you post, make it a good one.
     
  44. nipoco

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    Yes. One of UDK's weak spots in my opinion.
    But at least it shows you can make professional games with UDK too.

    You really can't make a decent conclusion. Each engine has advantages and issues as well. It really depends on your project.
     
  45. angrypenguin

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    That is the conclusion. Any further discussion is either a) about the pros and cons as they apply to various projects or b) useless.
     
  46. LucasDaltro

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    Yeah I agree with you guys,but what I really don't understand is why there is aways a topic like this out there,and why so many people give the same answers every time instead of trying to explain that there's no such thing as "best game engine ever"
     
  47. MarkBenitez

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    Ok, here is the conclusion, ALL ENGINES are capable of the same graphics, with the right shader programmer, over at armedunity a member(willywill) is working on several shaders that will drastically improve graphics in a game, you can see the shaders on his list here:
    http://armedunity.com/topic/5856-unity3d-visual-overhaul-roadmap/

    In the end its down to personal preferance, effort, and skill. Even a 16 year old student can realize this(Me). But I will say in my opinion unity has the easiest workflow, all you have to do is drag and drop. Cryengine makes you put assets into .PAK files and UDK makes you reimport everytime something new should happen.

    A mod should really lock this because its pointless unless your looking to kill time.
     
  48. nipoco

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    You're right
     
  49. BrainMelter

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    It should be fine. There were several threads on this same subject, merged by the mods into this one thread. It's fairly tidy, and still of some use, since it is about game engines afterall.
     
  50. angrypenguin

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    Hahaha, oh, the irony! :p

    There's nothing wrong with discussing things. Yes, the discussion has been had before, but sometimes the benefit is in new people having the discussion for themselves.