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Unity or UDK or CryEngine or...?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Not_Sure, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    But I saw a pretty ball of fire in one of unity 4's videos! :-0
     
  2. taumel

    taumel

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    Another question: If you're doing compute shader stuff in Unity V4, for instance particles will they also receive and cast shadows if you use Unity's light system?
     
  3. ImogenPoot

    ImogenPoot

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    What you mean if you implement particles in compute shaders? That would be kind of awesome but would also require that you can pass the generated geometry back to Unity without CPU roundtrip ?!... Yeah I'd also like to know that one :D
     
  4. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Doh!
    Get some sleep son! XD
     
  5. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Did you guys noticed this?:
    $20120808-yfzz-125kb.jpg
     
  6. ImogenPoot

    ImogenPoot

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    What's to notice? 64-bit DX 11... AND?
     
  7. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    The 64-bit stood out...
     
  8. ImogenPoot

    ImogenPoot

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    I'd like to think that 32-bit would stand out... It's a pity that Unity isn't 64-Bit already and this is not so irrelevant as most people want it to be. Maybe for mobile games. But Unity seems to consume 4x the memory, the final game does.
     
  9. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Look the picture one more time, It says UDK.:rolleyes:
     
  10. ImogenPoot

    ImogenPoot

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    ??? Everyone knows that
     
  11. nipoco

    nipoco

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    And?
    That was already pointed out by some people at Epic's forums. But according to some people (including Mark Rein) that means not much. I wouldn't go to excited for that.
     
  12. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    Hi,

    I've recently been fighting with myself over why I chose Unity over some other engines... I've bought a Pro 4.x licence and spent about $3K in the asset store, now I did this because I've always seen Unity as the best tool for indie developers.

    I'm having doubts, their are so many bugs and issues with unity 3.x that are unfinished; just simply carried over to 4.x and covered by a big hype.

    I thought ok if I move over to 4.x these issues would be cleared up.. Nope they simply have more important things to do instead of 64bit, a decent terrain editor, unbearable tearing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlayTKMiboo (btw these issues are also on the latest 3.x), shadow, the list goes on yet instead we have new features! yay exciting, will someone please take note of the real deal breaker here? i didn't buy unity bcos of the new features i bought it so the old ones would actually work.


    Unity is by far the most expensive engine this side of a realistic margin...


    meanwhile for $99 and 25% royalties if i ever hit $50,000 profit from a title:
    unreal engine 3!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfLRL4YAMg
    and unreal 4...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyeeyZE41O4


    I apologize for the rant and I hope you can see I'm coming from a side of unbreakable love with unity.. though the river is a jammed and the fresh water is more north :(




    AND BARE IN MIND IF YOU DO WATCH THE TEARING VIDEO COMPLETELY - I've raised the road by quite a bit, in fact i've edited the road sides to hit the floor to match the unrealistic raise and the result of that is that video, before hand it was much much worse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  13. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Your "tearing" issue is not tearing - it's called "z-fighting". Push your nearplane on the camera out farther (as far as possible for your view) Make sure your road is sitting higher than the terrain. This is a hardware thing - it has to do with the precision of the z-buffer. This will happen in any engine.

    "Tearing" is what would happen on old CRT monitors, when the refresh rate was not locked. The bottom part of the scene would be one frame behind the top part, and when moving made it look like it was torn.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  14. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    Near clipping doesn't solve the problem. I call it tearing because it looks like tearing!!! who cares what the technical term is

    EDIT*
    - please read the whole thread .. it says i raised the road a lot. even edited the mesh to match
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  15. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Hi Shifty, sounds similar to a rant I had when 4.0 was announced, and as a Pro Licensee of 3.x, and feeling as though Unity had offered a great road map of features that looked like they were going to appear is 3.x only for some to arrive in beta and not grow to fruition and others to vanish.

    I like Unity and I'm still using it as I can now make 3D games with it, yay!

    But I am tempted to go with UDK for my next game, and it would be cool to do a Ludum Dare entry with UDK! ;0)

    And I'm sure that Unity as a company needs to pay it's bills and fund future developments, but it's turning from a product into a service, a product is something that is delivered and fulfils a role, a service in this case is something that promises to provide something now and more later.

    Fingers crossed they can deliver as UDK 4 if it arrives and delivers what they say it will, could change the landscape of game development further.
     
  16. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    @Arowx +++++ you took the words out of my mouth
     
  17. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    should i raise the road a few more miles? maybe the road would instead float in the sky =D hey at least i wont get "z-fighterers.."
     
  18. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    That doesn't stop what is happening. The z-buffer only has so much precision. Rant all you want, but this is an art issue, you'll need to solve it yourself. What do you have the near plane/far plane set at? Have you tried using a shader with a z-offset?
     
  19. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    Look jaimi, i think your missing the point and going off topic.. i do appreciate your help man*EDIT* though it was just another issue in the list of issues.. i've invested a lot of money here im entitled to 1 rant right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  20. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    But, the point of your message is that Unity hasn't somehow made the z-buffer precision better. That's just not going to happen, shifty. If you don't want help on the issue you posted, that's fine, I'll bow out. But if you don't want help, and want to go to UDK 4, why post here?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  21. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    Ok jaimi thanks for your contribution bud
     
  22. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    I'm curious as to why this thread's ignoring hardware aspects and focusing solely on software (although, even there - it's ignoring driver versions, software settings for hardware, and even operating system).

    Go to tech forums for your average game - you're going to see people having all sorts of issues (including tearing) while other folks are not. All it takes is for one person not to have an issue for the potential of it being the machine to arise.

    Hell, in many cases you can bring about tearing by overheating the GPU...
     
  23. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    =D hey your right! ZeroByte i'm unaware that hardware causes all these problems! why are we concentrating on 1 issues.. its not the soul of the topic, i am more then happy to hear that all the issues unity hasn't fixed over time are actually related to me and my hardware! gosh that would be great bcos at least id know money was well spent and i can sleep like a baby tonight, just say yes all the issues you've raised are down to the user and i'll look further into my actions, i might even have to program my own 64bit and terrain editor :p
     
  24. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    No doubt 64bit would be nice (and I have to believe it will be along shortly, since we're on the verge of that transition overall - more and more folks are making that move (and more and more folks are being lambasted for not making that move)).

    The thing about a better terrain editor is that people may still prefer to use some other terrain editor. How is this a thing? Well consider DirectX...that's a thing. How is that a thing? Not everybody's using DirectX. So some may feel that they are paying for features that they are not going to use. There are several such things. It would make pricing and sales a nightmare (as well as making the development of Unity that much more cumbersome), but an a la carte method of bundling what you need could actually lead to people spending more money on UT products. Imagine the Android guy, looking at $1500 for Android Pro and $1500 for Unity Pro. $3k. How much of that Unity Pro does he need for his Android game? He's paying the same $1500 as the Windows guy that's going to be using far more of Unity Pro than the Android guy. Hell, on top of that - he's paying another $1500 for Android Pro. Android guy's got a sad face. :(

    So you want to add a terrain editor. So it becomes another one of those things. The guy that's not going to be using it...or the guy that's using something else...well, yeah - it becomes a thing.

    So what's the better option? Basic editor and the ability to use something else? Sounds like Unity got that right...

    There are various things here and there that each of us wants them to do - whether they're fixes or simple wish list stuff.

    You can start here: http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-1.1 :and follow through to: http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-3.5.5 :to see where Unity has changed over the years.

    You can see what 4's supposed to be doing...
    Here: http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...of-the-unity-game-engine-unveiled-1670512.htm
    And Here: http://unity3d.com/unity/4/?overview

    If you are in the beta, and something's not working or there are other issues about where 4 is going - tada, here: http://forum.unity3d.com/forums/33-Developer-Preview

    If it's a wish list sort of thing, there's here: http://forum.unity3d.com/forums/13-Wish-List

    If it's just a bitch about Unity and compare it to somebody else, there's here: http://forum.unity3d.com/forums/14-Unity-Gossip

    Oh wait, that last one...that's here. It's in the right place...
     
  25. showtime

    showtime

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    @shifty ++++
     
  26. keithsoulasa

    keithsoulasa

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    You have to keep in mind that UDK development is far more complex then Unity dev, unless you want to make a FPS .


    And considering you've already invested money in Unity and time learning the SDK , you SHOULD just stay with it .
     
  27. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    @Zero

    When I buy a car i ask for air conditioning, breaks, power steering, and maybe a set of 2 12" wouldn't hurt :D but the car i want has all that and offers GPS navigation and 19" rims i don't say hey "i'm paying for those 2 things i wont need or use"

    Your saying when unity throws in a better terrain editor and a 64 bit editor some people will be saying im paying for that and i wont be using it.. that doesn't sound right. sounds a little more like "cool feature, i cannot use it right now but i will get my hands on it when i need it"

    My ego is being stroked as i read further about how unity is great and i'm an idiot and probably having a S***ty day and taking it out on unity, though you dodged my question but its not your job to answer it =D so i aint hating ! anyway settle down with the professionalism i'm trying to watch pineapple express
     
  28. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    Yeah Keith i'm just having one of those look back and reflect moments, i thought the unity forum was my relief, and it turns out... it is =D

    Would i turn my back on unity? hell no. no way in hell. would i prefer to see some issues get fixed before they overkill the new features? yeah i would!

    btw its 3:30am in Brisbane... im tired
     
  29. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    If you go into a restaurant to order a burger and fries, but you have to buy a drink, soup, salad, and dessert to get that burger and fries...

    ...as for the car, er - yeah, it would be a case of saying that. It would be a case of looking for other models they have on the floor or going to another dealership or even considering another brand. You could get both the GPS and rims cheaper as aftermarket. Are you the kind of guy that pays $100+ for the floormats?

    Consider the F2P model that's becoming more and more popular - part of that's from people wanting only to pay for what they're going to use. It's a pretty common thing...

    I get the venting and frustration about the various issues with Unity. I think most people do. The thing is, UT's a business - Unity's a commercial product - we're supposedly developers attempting to use their product to conduct our own business. Treating it as if mom and dad said you won't get any ice cream unless you eat all your peas... well, it's not the kind of thing that works in business. Hell, it doesn't even work to get the ice cream...

    You've got technical issues - you've got issues with what's not been done and where the focus is. If you expect UT to address them in a serious manner, then present them in a serious manner...simple as that. Otherwise it just looks like you're screaming that you don't want to eat your peas...
     
  30. Tom-Ash

    Tom-Ash

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    I have been Unity user for almost 1.5 years (although only recently registered here). I started to make a game in my spare free time when Unity was around v3.4 and the thing that sparked my interest in this engine was integration with Allegorithmic Substances. Unity team is doing tremendous work adding new features and crunching bugs as I have observed during my experience with the engine. But I can sympathize with you shifty in a way.

    Like every engine Unity as well as UDK have some ups and downs.
    Unity is being advertised as the best tool for indie developers (how many of you think that ?), yet you have to get the pro license to have all the most interesting features (for me) like static batching, deferred lighting, profiler or image effects - maybe they should have gone the UDK way with the % cut from your sales, but they chosen differently. Unity scripting is as easy as making a pie (considering you're not my girlfriend, she sucks at that :D) compared to UDK, plus for Unity. UDK has lower price but on the other hand has one serious disadvantage over Unity (correct me if I'm wrong) - you can't release the source of your project. It has some features integrated that I find Unity lacks: vertex painter (for testing shaders in-edit mode), simplygon for LOD models making (if Unity is for indie devs similar solution should be integrated there). However UDK is more complicated in use than Unity. I can go on about this hours and hours - but that's not the point.

    The scene you showed with the "tearing" - did you test it on other machines ? The vid shows you're inside the editor - what about the build, does it have the same problem ? Maybe testing this with help of others pplz hardware wouldn't be bad idea :)
     
  31. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @Zero I think your missing the point, it's a simple matter of Trust and the hype curve.

    I posted about this before but their is a theoretical curve, whereby some new technology comes along and if you purchase the technology you then get to ride the roller-coaster that is this 'hype' curve. But you also get to go through the valley of discontentment and lost trust.

    It's not about the car it's about the journey. You just hope that when you get on the highs outweigh the lows.

    And Unity are still learning how best to 'hawk' for new riders without building up their hopes too much, I think they messed up with 3.x offering too much and then asking the punters to buy another ticket for the extra thrills just around the corner.
     
  32. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    There's a reason I included the link for the Unity 1.1 and suggested following it through Unity 3.5.5 up there. It's not just a case of promising new features, not delivering, and repeating that cycle over and over again while ignoring bugs and all the rest.
     
  33. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @Zero, still your going on about features, it's about the emotional journey does Unity lift your game or does it raise your hopes then crush them with bugs and 'promised' features.

    People are investing their money and more importantly time to learning Unity and in some cases starting new businesses, ventures, ect.

    Unity for developers and artists is a tool that lets them build their dream worlds, and interact with them, but in doing so it raises their hopes, the trick that Unity needs to learn is how not to let them down too hard after all no game engine can can approach what we can dream and definitely not as fast as we can dream it up!

    Mind you I have my fingers crossed for Unity 99 with direct from brain design and modelling interface and Molyneux 1000+ AI built in, only $1000.00. ;0)
     
  34. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    I'm going on about features...and what you talk about is the emotional aspect in regard to features. They're tied together, no? There could be no emotional journey involved with the features without the features, lack of features, broken features, ho-hum features, and the rest.

    I'm not sure UT needs to be teach folks life lessons as you suggest. I mean, c'mon - we start learning those before we can walk or talk.

    Heh, with your last line - one could make the case that UT's lying:

    From the home page:
    They've told you that you can assemble and tweak your game at the speed of thought. You should have your direct from brain in Unity 3 and not have to wait for Unity 99. :)
     
  35. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Yep, It's about what is promised versus what is delivered.

    The difference is that for most life lessons you don't have to pay thousands of pounds to learn them. ;0(
     
  36. Geewiz

    Geewiz

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    Have to agree with most of the comments, Unity 4 should have addressed exsisting issues as well as applying some well needed features, as a major version release you would have kind of expected fixes as well as features to bring it in-line with today's technology, as mentioned 64 bit etc.

    Let's face it before a new version release at least a good few of exsisting bugs should be fixed not carried over, most of the time you can get around them but one bug makes another more obvious that wasn't present if the original was not bugged in the first place.

    I love Unity, but was expecting a little more from a version release, it's more like a revision release with some sweetners.They could prob have done more esp with 64bit most packages these day's come with 32/64 installs as standard. Why not Unity.? 64 bit is fast becoming the norm for most software and hardware.
     
  37. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Except it's not released yet. It's a beta.

    When Unity 4 is actually released, why not complain then? Otherwise it just sounds like "My beta has bugs in it!".
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  38. Dabeh

    Dabeh

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    So you're implying they will release a fix for all the problems in our current version when Unity 4 comes out?
     
  39. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    No, I'm implying it's not released yet, so complaining that items aren't in the release of version 4 is beyond pointless, it's nonsensical. You'll notice his complaint about "existing issues" is really a complaint that there is no 64 bit version. Which could hardly be considered any kind of bug or issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  40. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    @geewizz ++

    Zero and Jaimi it was interesting at the start though you guys are just blabbering on about none sense

    I address a couple of issues and thats suddenly the purpose of this "thread" that is now just a post moved by a mod...
    Has anyone checked out the shadows ? they still have not found a solution to that... all the "solutions" they gave me did absolutely nothing http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3263/75781651.jpg

    All this rant about hardware heres our specs:
    machine 1:
    intel i7 3770k
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 690
    16GB RAM
    512GB SSD

    machine 2:
    macbook air 2011 model

    machine 3:
    Samsung Notebook series 9
    ultrabook i7 (look up the specs it recently came out)

    we have another 6 machines that are similar specs to the first machine. exp for one that uses the drawing tablet.

    Will these issues ever be addressed? maybe they should promise to fix these issues in the 4.5 release and then 5.x will cover it :)

    So will these things get addressed? please no jaimi or zero
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  41. returnString

    returnString

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    shifty: Increase shadow accuracy and you get more artefacts, particularly in self-shadowing. Welcome to gamedev, the wonderful world of tradeoffs :)
     
  42. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Well, I can reply since you replied to me, even though I wasn't replying to you. Unless "Geewhiz" is your sock puppet account (with 1 post, and just having joined today, I guess that is likely). The nonsense was referring to the fact the previous poster was upset that bugs weren't fixed in the unity 4 release (of which there isn't a release version), and the "bug" he refers to is that he would like a new feature - a 64 bit unity.

    As for your current post, it actually does make sense, as you are asking for a solution and giving specifications. I won't try to address your shadow issue, beyond saying that shadows do not behave like this for me, so likely there is something weird in your solution. If you actually do want some help on it sometime, please feel free to PM me.
     
  43. Foam

    Foam

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    I would like to point out that you get what you pay for---$1500 a person is almost nothing when you consider said person probably commands $100,000-$200,000 in salary and benefits and operational costs PER YEAR.

    If you want a perfect engine, go plop down $5-$10 million on something more custom like everyone else.

    I mean, come on, it wasn't that long ago that if you wanted something like Unity you'd have to write the entire thing by hand.

    If you're that hamstrung by Unity then it's probably not Unity but your entire business model/plan---many people have made due with far less and to great success.
     
  44. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    I've done all the possible tricks to fix the shadow bias.. obviously id increase accuracy!

    Perfect engine? all im asking for is to fix a couple of bugs and put them before new features!
     
  45. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    jaimi you must have issues, why would i create an account.

    can the mod please check the geewiz account and see if you can link it to me.. thats horrible and hurtful to say jaimi

    **edit** also showtime posted here and that account was created yesterday aswell with 1 post. please confirm the IP
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  46. Foam

    Foam

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    I know, I'm just saying: you could fix them yourself if you bought a source code license. ;) You get what you pay for.
     
  47. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    foam your right man =D but seriously do you agree that some issues should be addressed? unity is the perfect engine lol... i didn't wake up and decide to choose to pick unity over night! i had these issues before i purchased the 4.x license, though i would like them to get a little attention
     
  48. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    You replied to my post replying to "geewhiz", claiming that I had said YOUR post was nonsense, when I had said "geewhiz" the single poster's post was nonsense. Thus, I said it was "likely" your account, which hardly seems horrible and hurtful, since you did reply like I mentioned above referencing the suspicious account as if it were your own. Either you're just having fun here, or you feel really upset and hurt about your shadow issue. Though you also seem to have no desire to actually address the shadow issue.

    If you do want help with the shadow issue, which doesn't seem to be affecting most people, then let me know.
     
  49. nipoco

    nipoco

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    I'm sure at some point you will also encounter issues with UDK, CE, or any other engine. The grass is always greener on the other side.
    No engine is perfect. And as a game dev you will always face problems you have to come over. Switching the engine each time you get into trouble won't get you anywhere.

    That said. I never saw such shadow problem. Are you sure that is a bug?
     
  50. unityasoft

    unityasoft

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    @Jaimi

    Well jaimi for someone to suggest something like that is retarded honestly... is that something you do/done? honestly i think saying something like that is simply out of line, i had my own backings i don't think creating an account would make any difference on my backing

    Anyway yes your right about me avoiding the help with the shadows and etc, sorry about that but i've went over everything possible to fix it.. at first we were wondering if the actual character was floating! thats how obvious the distance between the mesh and the shadows are.

    Maybe i could be the only one affected but the thing is i did only realize the problem after about a couple of months working on a project and it ran by me. im using deferred lighting with soft shadows

    Some help on the issue would be great! but i only avoid it because i dont want to waste your time.. i've tried everything i could think of. and then i made a thread and had a PM conversation over it ! i've tried it on new projects, different computers.. if you dont believe me try this when you have time:

    create a new project, change from forward lighting to deferred, create a point light and have multiple cubes leeching off each other, but make sure you fiddle with the point lights Y position, and if you see no problem then it simply means there is really something wrong with all the computers here

    i do appreciate the help