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Resolved Unity OpenXR Support?

Discussion in 'AR/VR (XR) Discussion' started by ROBYER1, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  2. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    An interesting development on the OpenXR situation here and also here

    "We're handling input through our own plugin while we work with Unity on a solution to get their input system working with modern input standards (OpenVR / OpenXR)."

    "The current versions of the OpenVR Unity XR Plugin do not support the unity input system. For input you'll need to use SteamVR Input via the SteamVR Unity Plugin. We hope this will be consolidated with OpenXR."

    Have hope guys, I am pushing for a timeline or roadmap on this here
     
  3. HyperLethalVector92

    HyperLethalVector92

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    For those interested in working with XR, I'm aiming to produce a standard that works well in favour of the developer,
    Check out Project Esky:
     
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  4. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    Looks like interesting stuff, although that pinch gesture looks a bit unreliable in your video (reminds me of my first time realising the Hololens 1 was bad with pinch recognition).

    I want to keep this thread discussion on the implementation of OpenXR in Unity. So if you want to make another thread about Project Esky, please edit your post above mine here and add a link to it so people can discuss that project there please.

    All the best
     
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  5. fvertk

    fvertk

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    I've gotten to the end of reading through this quagmire. I have come to a few conclusions:

    1. Unity may not be the engine for creating an XR product expected to run seamlessly on many devices. In my case, I want a VR game to run on Vive/Rift/Index/Quest. But using XR Interaction Toolkit with the separately installed beta OpenVR Unity XR package... is an absolute mess. It works, but I can't see my controllers/headset, no buttons seem to work.

    2. Unity has low interest in pursuing this. They want Valve to do the work on their end. The lack of commentary/interest from them in this topic over months shows how little they actually seem to be considering this. And just like how we saw their deprecated online multiplayer system never really truly be replaced, I have lost faith that this will be.

    3. And both of those make me conclude further... Unreal is now the engine for the above. The brutal truth. I'd love to keep working in Unity, I have put 2 years into a project.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  6. ceitel

    ceitel

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    @ROBYER1 just bumping this thread (and you personally as you seem to be quite knowledgeable on the subject):
    has anyone heard any news from Unity? I'm stuck at a cross-roads of updating to Unity 2020 and think it's probably best to stay in 2019 until the OpenXR support exists. Would be nice if a Unity dev would comment as well.

    Edit: sorry just noticed @ROBYER1 you posted recently (9/23) on the subject, this post was hidden originally, so my apologies
     
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  7. Immersive-Matthew

    Immersive-Matthew

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    On April 16th 2020 Moderator hippocoder posted Unity's Official position in this thread. They linked this blog post. https://blogs.unity3d.com/2020/01/24/unity-xr-platform-updates/
    Here is the OpenXR Except:

    "As part of our shift to the new plugin framework, Valve has used our XR SDK to develop their OpenVR Unity XR plugin for 2019.3 and beyond. The latest version can be found here.

    OpenVR will remain supported in Unity 2018 LTS, and developers can continue using the built-in integration of OpenVR in their existing projects.

    Note: Built-in support for OpenVR (OpenVR (Desktop)) has been deprecated in 2019.3.*"

    As I read all the replies to ROBYER1's original post, plus reading the above official statement, I am truly shocked at Unity and deeply disappointed. As a new VR developer it has already been hard enough getting into this space due to all the half baked new systems that replace deprecated systems, but not completely, plus many rabbit holes in the documentation that takes you down dead ends only to discover it was replaced or that option it asks you to select is no longer there. When I first got into Unity I loved the concept of Unity XR Management, however the entire industry has moved to OpenXR and thus the above official statement makes me wonder if Unity's head is really in the game. As Unity is heading towards and IPO, they really need to listen to their customers here and start to focus on what we need and what the industry is demanding from us and that is OpenXR. Now is NOT the right time to forge your own unique platform that replicates Open XR. Please Unity, inspect yourself and if you feel Unity XR is the future, then you better get the rest of the industry on board or you are going to force developers to look elsewhere out of sheer need not desire.


    Edit Spelling: Sheer not Shere. Ahahaha
     
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  8. FakeByte

    FakeByte

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    OpenVR != OpenXR, the quotes you posted don't talk about OpenXR.

    But what you wrote is still correct and I totally agree.
     
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  9. Akshara

    Akshara

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    I want to add my voice to the chorus, to express how disappointed and frustrated I am with the way Unity is choosing to treat this situation, and more importantly, choosing to treat all of us who have placed our trust in them. It is inexcusable.

    I remember when David Helgason walked out on the Slush stage and gave a moving speech with a warning about predatory corporate interests which could affect culture through technologies and limitations; echoing similar concerns that Jaron Lanier was expressing, specifically about how the dumbing down of input control in virtual worlds could create an unwanted future, and how this was a danger to be addressed before "lock-in" happened.

    I just never thought that Unity itself would do this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  10. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    So, about OpenXR, one Unity employee told me “I honestly dont think its possible to support EVERY potential platform. Would be stretched far too thin!”.

    Just so you understand what their priorities are.

    Another Unity employee said they’ve been wanting to implement OpenXR in Unity for a while now, applied internally to do it, but higher ups asked an arbitrary question about sorting algorithms as a test which they failed, and as such we now have no OpenXR.

    But remember...

    0D7A5C37-C73A-4608-94B8-FCDFDDF53AD0.jpeg

    Personally, I think Unity’s stance as a whole is “eh, Valve might implement it at some point, so we probably don’t need to bother”.
     
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  11. Clavus

    Clavus

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  12. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    Thanks for sharing this, there needs to be more discussion around this.

    @mfuad @StayTalm_Unity @Matt_D_work @LeonhardP @daves @ThomasZeng @matthewr_unity @joejo

    I don't care which of you choose to respond here or not, but why is Unity radio silent on OpenXR support despite the statements and twitter posts above?

    It's frustrating for us developers to see this disparity between messaging and what's actually in the software right now. OpenXR makes sense as the VR (and AR) ecosystem grows rapidly in terms of devices, the open standards of OpenXR ensure better support for a wide range of devices.
     
  13. cdytoby

    cdytoby

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    So these above posts are what I mean. I didn't mean they really don't have the money or man power, I mean they "appear" don't have the resource to do this. And this includes resource misplacement, or other reasons.

    We already see that the Unity developement doesn't go well for years, features missing or unfinished, and it got worse recently as some features deprecated without a proper replacement. Full of bugs around the tech stream, and they didn't finish the goal with Unity 2019 on time (released in 2020), and I doubt they will release Unity 2020.2 in 2020 on time even when they already reduced the goals (one less tech stream main release).

    I'm glad that you have the internal connections to get these information, and I'm glad that these b***s**t management issues come to light. Hope they learn their lessons.
     
  14. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    For the record they aren’t internal private connections that I’m making public. Those things were said publicly on social media, I just didn’t want to directly link to them.
     
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  15. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    Let's try to keep it civil in here everyone, I am hoping for some kind of response from Unity on this. Even just a simple "we are listening to you and working on OpenXR implementation to help your projects succeed".

    I also had to go through the change in VR platform support from legacy VR implementation to XR Plugin Management and now OpenVR SteamVR input is broken for us which is not ideal. Switching to OpenXR instead of XR Plugin management would have made this easier as Valve are moving to OpenXR too and every major headset supports it including the Quest.
     
  16. appymedia

    appymedia

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    Can I just check my understanding of the above folks?

    So we have Unity's XR plugin system (Unity's 'old' legacy system has been removed from 2019.4 onwards so 2020.x doesn't have it?). In there we have 'official' plugins for the following devices families :-
    • ARKit
    • ARCore
    • Microsoft HoloLens
    • Windows Mixed Reality
    • Magic Leap
    • Oculus
    • PlayStation VR
    No Vive / Index support most notably. That support is being provided by a Unity XR plugin developed by Value here :-

    https://github.com/ValveSoftware/unity-xr-plugin

    However input is broken through Unity's new input system via this plugin? So the current workaround is to install the SteamVR Unity plugin here :-

    https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/integration/steamvr-plugin-32647

    ...an take input from that instead?

    If you do that however you can't use the XR Interaction toolkit though as that relies on plugins using the Unity input subsystem and therefore the new input system? You might be able to if you apply changes like in the following article?

    https://skarredghost.com/2020/09/25/steamvr-unity-xr-interaction-toolkit-input/

    So now we are stuck until somebody picks up the ball properly and either brings OpenXR to Unity separate from Unity's XR plugin system OR creates a plugin for Unity's XR plugin system for OpenXR? But neither Value or Unity have committed to it or have not communicated it properly?

    Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I've had a years break from dev work due to family illness and upon returning have been using other engines mainly. I'm slower to dev with them but they feel like they have a more unified approach for things like this and I've been enjoying things more than Unity dev I tried recently (might be the honeymoon period though :)) .

    It did make me wonder if it was knowledge gaps with Unity though giving me that perception. After all, all engines have issues??? So I'm trying to fill in any gaps, understand pinch points / advantages and frame Unity better (or worse hahah) hence the questions.

    Thanks for any help!
     
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  17. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    4D6F5994-8584-4C1F-A698-452343047855.jpeg
     
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  18. appymedia

    appymedia

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    ...cheers, I mean despite what's been said publicly there's still nothing concrete coming from Valve or Unity on who is championing OpenXR for Unity and when it is scheduled to arrive?

    Again, apologies if I'm getting mixed up, its getting pretty difficult to tell what's going on when you've been away from stuff for a while.
     
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  19. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Unofficially one person on Twitter said Unity is working on OpenXR.

    Officially it’s what I quoted you, but that was many months ago.

    Valve has been transitioning to OpenXR slowly, I think Unity saw a potential of someone else doing their work for them and Unity as a company really likes that, which is why it’s now a buggy mess struggling to fulfill platform requirements (why do something once when your paying customers can all individually implement it themselves wasting thousands of man hours?).

    In any case @ROBYER1 is expecting a “we’re listening and we’re working on it” reply, but I think at this point we should know that replies like these mean absolutely nothing when they come from Unity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  20. appymedia

    appymedia

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    Cheers for clearing that up. Disappointing now I understand it better, its been quite some time as you pointed out and still no official word on what's happening.
     
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  21. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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  22. GabsKapellmann

    GabsKapellmann

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    Hello @ROBYER1

    Do we know anything else or any update?
     
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  23. colinleet

    colinleet

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    For anyone who can't wait for a "official" fix for this "bug", I found this hack (which was also commented about above) a couple weeks ago which looks like it should provide a work around for the 2020.1 SteamVR Input/Interaction Toolkit intercompatibility dilemma were all facing:

    Step by step guilds (read first)
    https://skarredghost.com/2020/09/25/steamvr-unity-xr-interaction-toolkit-input/

    Preconfigured Setup
    https://github.com/beep2bleep/SteamVRWorkingWithUnityXTToolkit

    Disclaimer: I haven't personally tested this yet.
     
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  24. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    All I know is what's in the thread so far unfortunately, I am still hoping the interest generated in this thread is enough for Unity to respond here or on the forum this thread sits in. Keep on pushing for OpenXR support to simplify VR cross-platform development :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  25. Thedanieljk

    Thedanieljk

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    Thought I'd make an account to express my disappointment in Unity for the lack of communication on this. It's a very important feature to me and should be to the whole XR community. I have experience with Unity and have been pushing off a personal project while hoping Unity would release support. Unfortunately I'll likely switch to Unreal Engine.
     
  26. Shaunyowns

    Shaunyowns

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    Hey everyone,

    Sorry to hear about the disappointment you all have regarding the lack of communication, I'll send this post over to see what I can get back from the team.

    I hope this helps!
     
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  27. TobySch

    TobySch

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    Thanks!
    If you talk to the team anyway, ask them about the XR-Toolkit or any other of the numerous topics with a lack of communication.

    I hope this helps ;)
     
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  28. ROBYER1

    ROBYER1

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    This is great news for all in this thread, hoping to test out the OpenXR runtime as soon as it's available!
     
  29. Shaunyowns

    Shaunyowns

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    Hey everyone,

    We've now published an update on Unity's plans for OpenXR here.

    I'm going to close this thread and I'd encourage you all to post any comments/feedback you have on that post!
     
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