Unity on Infiltrator map from Unreal Engine. 4K native video

4K still being processed but the option should appear on Youtube soon enough!
Lots of people were quite curious and sent me messages about this. Therefore i made this video and played the actual tech demo ahead of anything to put things into perspective.

Couldn't get my Vulkan build working this time tho sadly.


**Copyright claim from Epic Game, video taken down**

For usage of the Infiltrator assets outside of Unreal Engine.

 

So, why did the other thread of yours get locked? o.0

 

Because it degraded into an outright comparison thread and ceased being about the original topic.

 

4K has now been processed and is available in the graphic settings of the Youtube players. Even if you're not using a 4K screen, trying higher resolution will at least benefit to the overall compression of the video and improve your experience.

The High-candy fun with everything turned to 11 starts at 20min40sec.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if there are some legal lisencing issues. Unreal
Has a habit of releasing 'free' demo assets that are lisenced only for use within Unreal.

 

Actually, yeah, Infiltrator demo is licensed as "Unreal Only":
See:
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/infiltrator-demo#
Details:
https://www.unrealengine.com/eula

Also see "Allowed forms of Distribution and Sublicensing".

Been a while since I checked UE4 licensing terms, by the way.
Some of the conditions are interesting:

Or:

 

Thought so. I've hit this with a bunch of other 'free' Unreal assets.

Interestingly the Unity Asset Store doesn't have the same restrictions.

 

It's a personal usage experiment, not developing nor distributing any product out of this. It's also posted on Unreal Engine forum so we'll see soon enough right? ^^

 

Making a "Personal usage experiment" is "developing".

Also, instead of forums contact their support. Response given on forums will be unreliable, unless you get it from an actual staff member.

In general I'd advise to find a different demo to experiment with - one without "unreal 4 only" restriction.

 

Piracy is still piracy. Even if it is for personal usage.

If personal usage was a reason for piracy we'd all be out of a job. Games are pretty much exclusively personal use.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think the test is a great idea. I just think you need to do it with a different set of assets.

 

It's almost insulting for anyone with a minimum computer knowledge to call a drag and drop from one folder to another - "developing".
Unreal staff is highly active in their forum.

"Personal usage" is a really specific French legal term that i'm not sure how to translate in English.

Video game is about distribution, you won't get out of a job with people having fun at home on their computer, not distributing anything.

 

@neginfinity ,

Lets see a case scenario. User A saw a UE4 blog post about a new feature on UE4.14, then User A wrote some shader+c# code to bring that feature to unity. He/She then shared the unity side codes(shaders/c# codes) with his/her buddies, probably on a forum or something like that. Would this violate any of the clauses of UE4? Remember that he/she did not touch any source of UE4, just literally brought that feature to another engine(in this case, Unity) by reading a UE4 blog post.

 

Law defies logic and common sense.
What you need to care about about legal definition.
What you're talking about is spoken language defiinition. Those two have very little in common.

Epic games would be located in USA, though, and to determine which country's jurisdiction applies to the EULA, you'll need a lawyer.

You're talking about company that destroyed at least one studio. See Silicon Knights.
Also, other companies shutdown fan-made projects routinely (nintendo killed at least one N64 mario remake).
It is not a matter of someone getting out of job. It is matter of you not adhering to their agreement.

Also, if that interests you, I wrote converter that works the other way around (Unity -> UE4).

So I'm familiar with situation. The point is that Unreal assets are explicitly marked as Unreal only, and for experimenting you REALLY need something that does not have this kind of restriction. Unity free assets do not have such problem, by the way.

 

Your example has nothing to do with the situation.

The issue is using Unreal assets in Unity, which is explicitly forbidden by unreal's Eula, and you accept said eula when you download those assets.

Basically, someone could make a scene that kinda looks like infiltrator demo, but using infiltrator meshes and textures is a NO. No way around it.

 

Someone could make a scene that looked like that? A big no to that indeed. Or maybe if you raise some money pay 3 artist to get 2/3 characters and a couple building, another guy to make the environnement, let's skip the animation part aside. It would take several people and time to get anything close to this.

And the original goal is to see if Unity can handle something that is outstanding and used to represent the state-of-the art as far as Unreal Engine is concerned. You would have to work from Unreal to Unity for it to remains.

 

Next time the moderation locks something down, they better leave a comment. -.-

 

You can make a scene that "kinda sorta" looks like that like Unreal's Infiltrator. This is allowed.

You can't take their assets and use them. This is forbidden by the EULA.

Basically, regardless of your intentions, it is generally a good idea to adhere to licensing agreements, copyrights , and the like.

 

So, your game dev experience is novice grade? Because when I read in the other locked thread that you said "the C++ foundation can't be outperformed", then I almost burst into hysteric laughter. I'm not Pro myself, but intermediate, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Graphics these days, do rely on the GPU, not really the CPU that much anymore. DX12 is offloading the CPU even further. We are on the verge now for 4+ CPU cores. And UE4, just like Unity, is written in C++ at its engine level anyways.

Xenko game engine in the other hands, goes down by ~85% with C# code into its engine. If you tried Xenko though, you would see that its fundamentally better than Unity. It's like UE4 + Unity. Silicon Studio is serious about competing with Unity and Unreal. Yet, their engine core is C#. Why? Because a game engine is ~50% engine code, and ~50% API. API's are usually still written in C/C++. This is how far C/C++ got pushed back.

Seems Xenko can afford more C# because it's not using Mono, but .Net Core and .Net Standard. Hell, Xenko could be on par with Unreal. Because Silicon Studio owns the two middle ware packages Mitzuchi and YEBIS. Mitzuchi is real-time rendering and its graphics are Unreal grade. I think it's only a matter of time until all of that got ported over to Xenko!?

I sad on the UE4 forums that Unity could beat UE4. Well, it seems Unity itself is more like gold brown toast already. And it's going to be Xenko that will face UE4. And face it with C#... the epic C++ neckbeards are not going to like this...

 

Oh I am sorry creating confusions for you . As the licensing things are being discussed, so I thought you could shed some light on this specific scenario I mentioned. So I asked This is not related to OP's case I know that. Between, thanks for letting me know those clauses, I will be more careful in future. I guess I know now that there is a reason why UT guys just can't take something out from RHI and set it on fire over unmanaged side

 

I played with examples, you need to write too much code to drive animations while in Unity or UE4 you manage animations within the editor with tools, this is only one example i believe Xenko can't compete with Unity or UE4.
Also PBR rendering doesn't look good, and it's confusing they mix microsurface shader attributes with basic PBR.
Another point is the frame rate was under 60fps, while some same basic game template in UE4 runs 120fps on my PC. Xenko is not developped by entire teams, it will not compete with UE4 or Unity, it is for a smaller number of users only.

 

Well, no offence to anyone but I thought it looked seriously bad and ugly under unity. This isn't showing off what Unity can do even slightly.

If Epic looked at that video, they wouldn't be asking their lawyers to take it down, they'd be saying "thanks for the free advertising, and thanks for making our competition's engine look bad".

But I get it, it's just for fun I'm not trying to say the OP is bad, merely that you just can't port over some meshes and textures authored for one engine, and expect it to look any good in another, particularly as there's a ton of missing things like baked lighting and entirely different post.

Just my 2p.

 

Agreed, it wasn't me. If it is not obvious why a thread is locked, it can leave a sour taste.

 

Goes like this:
Allowed: You know what algorithm is being used in UE4, and implement the same algorithm in unity based on original paper.
Not allowed: you copy Unreal's code into unity and modify it to make it work.

There's always a paper that describes an algorithm being used somewhere. you can track down the paper, implement it on your own. The paper may also have reference code available . However, you can't just pull code from Unreal 4, because it is not an opensource (copyleft) engine. IIRC there are multiple clauses in EULA that explicitly forbid such usage.

 

asked few years back about using ue4 assets in "other engines",
its allowed, but if you make money out of it, might have to pay those royalties:
https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/14315/can-i-use-ue4-free-content-on-other-engines.html

 

I still wouldn't touch anything marked as "Unreal Only".

The issue with this answer is that it is unclear what the staff member refers to. Unreal 4 comes with sample content, and said content (as far as I know) does NOT come under "Unreal only" license. The content I mentioned includes Unreal 4 Dummy, few textures, etc. Basically, 500 megabytes of stuff you get in your project when you start from scratch. Not "infiltrator" demo.

Basically, in case of "Verbal Permission" vs "Actual EULA", actual EULA would win.

 

Hm thats a bit harsh, if i played that game with Unity version by no means would i say it looks bad.

 

I would use Cryengine over UE4 any time but at the moment tied too much to Unity

 

When was it the last time you used Xenko? Or had a look at the road map? Which version did you work with? I worked with 1.9.

Xenko just lacks some features. But the fundamental structure is way better than Unity already. By the end of 2017, Unity is going to have a problem if they can't keep up. However, obviously Silicon Studio is intending to compete with UE4 and especially with Unity. But of course no game engine is built over the course of one day.

Unity doesn't have, but Xenko already got:

• GUI editor with page support.
• Prefab editor and nested prefabs.
• Derived assets and background asset loading.
• C# 6.0 based on .Net performance.
• Fully multi-threaded
• Open Source
• Property serialization
• MSDN grade formatted documentation
• Launcher with multi version engine installations. Plus news feed.
• Scripting: Async scripts. No split into LateUpate and FixedUpdate calls. (No Awake either?!)

Xenko doesn't have, but Unity already got:

• Animation editor (coming soon)
• Level streaming (coming soon)
• Lightmap baking (coming soon)

... sorry for getting off-topic by the way.

 

wow! Thats a lot of improvements!

 

They also don't have Substance run-time support (but they've told me it's a possibility in 2017). The biggest thing Unity has though that Xenko doesn't, is the size of the community.

 

Well, if you're looking for crazy level graphics and a mature foundation state-of-the-art you can still go with Amazon Lumberyard: free to use, no royalties whatsoever, open-source, real-time global illumination with voxels, ofc PBR /w substances.

You have a solid Cryengine base (fork from Cryengine 3.8), open-source, and Amazon funding the R&D. And as we all know, Amazon is gonna pay what it takes to bring this game-engine top5 on the market.

To me, Lumberyard is the real contender to Unity/UE for years to come. No one is in a better situation than Amazon to pay for what it takes to battle with Unity.

 

Or even use Cryengine with lots of good changes they've made in Cryengine 5.

 

I've to say i tried Cryengine 5.3 after trying Lumberyard and the UI at least was quite a letdown to me.

Going with Cryengine is also harder to consider when you're not sure that Crytek won't be dead in 1 year.

 

Actually I prefer the new UI over the old one but that might be a matter of preference. There are news that they might receive $500mln from Turkish government. If that is true I wouldn't be worried about CRYENGINE's future.

What I like more about CE over LY at the moment is:
C#, Lua deprecation, Schematyc, plugins and entity system.

From what I've heard LY goes more towards deprecating Flow Graph and glorifying Lua, no C# option.

So overall I like Cryengine's direction more.

 

If you like complexity and hard to use, go for CryEngine 5, i played with Lumberyard recently and they are doing lot better towards simplification and accessibility.

No C# with CryEngine is very limited scope if you had tried it , you won't make a complete game with it, it only supported some basic aspects of their framework and engine. While LY are making Lua something able to replace entirely C++ if you wish.

I used the last version previous week, they made good improvments indeed , but i was heavy disappointed about frame rate and shaders rendering, it didn't looks as good as Unity indeed and performed too slowly for an empty sample scene.
And it was hundred lines of code to drive inputs and animations, this is too much, it lacks a tool editor to manage animations, animations events , transitions and states like Unity or UE3 are doing, instead of trying to manage all by code.

I followed Xenko three years ago, it has been too long to arrive at it's actual state for my taste, but this is normal because it is open source and not something devs works on all days long.
It will be years before the tools you mentionned arrive and it gets a complete terrain system as good as Unity or Unreal 4. You can choose to follow it and wait, or start making a game picking up a more complete 3D Engine.

 

Well, guess what. Copyright claim from Epic Game, video taken down. I guess we've got our answer

 

Damn I was just going to post a meme . Well the OP has learned a valuable lesson, let's hope we don't see any more attempts at AAA in unity or any other engine for that matter as a one man indie team

 

Sometimes I hate being right.

 

oh boy, and now my Youtube channel is screwed until March 2017.

 

Whatever made you think it was a good idea to post, and on unreal's forums too?

 

It's pretty obvious i wanted to be transparent in the process. Had i not posted on unreal forum it was legitimate to think it was a hostile and sneaky move from me. Which is clearly not.

I thought it was fair use of the assets as long as i didn't distribute any product out of it. It was not. Lesson learned.

 

OK fair enough, I would also recommend wiping any other images of your previous posts.

https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/youre-making-crysis-in-unity-your-top-5-asset-pick.445943/

And please re-read hippo's post #21, I like your spirit though, just gotta know what tool/engine to use for a given task - and scope much much smaller IMO.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the license's definition of a "Product" as seen below included videos.

https://www.unrealengine.com/eula

 

But you did distribute the product. Videos count as a product. So do static images. And you put it in a place where Unreal was going to see it.

Your use definelty isn't covered by fair use. Fair use is a system to allow journalists, academics and comedians to talk about copyrighted material without having to get permission from the owner. It covers a news article showing a screen shot of a new asset pack. It covers the academic paper titled 'Does offering free assets improve the sales of Unreal Engine'.

It's a common misconception that fair use covers home use, personal use, and not-for-profit use. This is wrong. There are no copyright provisions that let you do things in the privacy of your own home. The only reason people get away with it is that there is no way to check. As soon as you go public the IP owner will eventually hear of it and take action.

 

Told ya.

Fair use has very specific definition.

Dragging the whole scene from one engine into another is not fair use by any means.

Also see:
http://www.blendswap.com/page/fan-art

And this video:

This mostly concerns fanart.

But as I said, "developing" includes "developing even without distributing".

Oh, and this:
http://sea.ign.com/super-mario-64/88140/news/nintendo-takes-down-super-mario-64-hd-fan-project
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Knights#Silicon_Knights_vs._Epic_Games

 

I don't think you're setting the bar very high

 

Good point.

Basically, a legal document is essentially a program written in declarative language with a bit of english.

Usually, at the beginning of document, there are definition of terms used in the document which are, unfortunately, mapped to english language words and resemble spoken english when used in sentence.

So, if there's a mention of "products" or "developing" somewhere in the document, those might be defined elsewhere in the document as an alias of some other, completely unexpected meaning. (I wish eulas came with mouseover hyperlinks for redefined words)

Related picture:

Spoiler

 

Another good read the OP may find interesting when he starts making his own game.

https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/copyright.402004/

 

Yeah, it is better to lower expectations about terrain in Unity for now

 

The tools are set for ~Spring 2017 according to the roadmap. I wouldn't need a terrain editor for my current game, though. Also the argument of "open source" doesn't make sense. Because UE4 is open source, too. Regarding the small team and their progress, well, Unity is 11 years old. But Xenko is already fundamentally way better than Unity.

Yeah, I'm still evaluating what kind of features I need, and whether I can use Xenko. There is already a game that was make with Xenko. It's now on Steam Green Light. It's called Children of the Galaxy or something.