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Unity offers subscription

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aurore, May 23, 2013.

  1. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

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    Yea no. In 1 case it would be large companies ditching one of their main products, in another case it's unity saying this is "just a test". The trogger risk isn't quite the same!
     
  2. TheOther

    TheOther

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    This thread is relevant to my interests.

    1. I'd be interested in a subscription model in the future (I wont be subbing in this period). I'd rather be able to sub and treat Unity as a monthly expense than attempt to raise $1500 upfront.
    2. For a subs model, $75 for each license is on the knifeedge of consideration. Reduced price or combined licenses would be more enticing.
    3. If it was month to month rather than a year's contract, it would be VERY enticing.
    4. If it was rent to buy, $75 would be more enticing, but I wouldnt expect that to ever be the case.
    5. I'd expect my sub to give me the option to automatically transfer to 5.0 at no extra cost, unless my sub dropped in price when 5.0 arrived, to reflect me using an outdated version.
    6. It would be beneficial to allow users to migrate from ownership to subs, or subs to ownership (perhaps with a minimum cost?)

    I'll be holding my breath for a 5.0 later this year, and hoping that it comes with a hard to refuse subscription model!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  3. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    Offering a month to month subscription doesn't make sense for Unity.
    You could develop your game using Unity Free, then get a one-month subscription to Pro, build for Pro, then cancel it.
    While you may not do that or intend doing that, others will. And UT isn't about to go offering Pro features/builds for $75 a shot.
     
  4. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    How exactly do you see that working? It could only be for upgrades, because otherwise why would you want to subscribe to something you already own?
     
  5. garv3

    garv3

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    It now says "$94/month" in the shop but still "$75/month" in the description!
    What's the correct pricing?
     
  6. VIC20

    VIC20

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    Possibly the VAT?

    EDIT: yes it is the VAT (you can turn that on/off in description - just scroll down) - You don't need to pay the VAT if you have a VAT number. I think you only have to pay the VAT when you are a citizen of the EU and don't have a VAT number.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  7. joaopaulogalvao

    joaopaulogalvao

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    Is there a payment method for paying all 12-months in advance?
     
  8. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    May as well pay the bit extra and buy the full license then.
     
  9. se7en

    se7en

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    Since I own 3.x upgrading will cost $1500 for pro/iOS pro but the subscription actually would cost $1800. The only way this will make sense is if they do a major version update annually or the monthly costs are less. If it were cheaper I would do it no question.
     
  10. smasonuk

    smasonuk

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    This isn't mentioned in the faq any more. I guess it isn't ending on the 31st?
     
  11. VIC20

    VIC20

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    That's what David Helgason said to me 2 weeks ago in Berlin on a little Unity-User meeting.
     
  12. dmj61

    dmj61

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    Quick question that I didn't see answered in the FAQ: How would the subscription work for a team of, say, a couple of people working on the same game, but not as a legal company? I'm assuming that each individual would have to purchase a separate individual license or licenses. I also see that they offer a team license, so would each individual have to purchase that as well?
     
  13. squared55

    squared55

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    As far as I can tell, all the Team License does is extend the editor. It does not seem to be mandatory to work as a team.
     
  14. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    As squared55 said, the Team License is for the collaboration tool set. (it probably should have a clearer name). It is a separate set of tools designed for teams. It isn't required, but if you do want to use it each person will have to have license to use it.

    The subscription is for Unity Pro, so it is the same license as Pro. You can't mix licenses on a project. If one person is using a subscription (which is Pro), on the project, others can't use the free version. They will need Pro (subscription or regular license). The requirement isn't for a "legal company", it is for a legal entity. It is broad term that basically means an individual or group engaged in business. If you are making a game that plan to release you are a legal entity. If you are doing it for fun or to learn or just mucking about it's not required.
     
  15. Silberpfeile

    Silberpfeile

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    what if this happened?

    if my game finished/built right before the 12 months subscribtion expired, can i still publish my finished game onto appStore/google/stream?

    *
    the fact is i dont have a credit card atm, so i gotta ask a friend who has it to get the subscribtion offer, and in later time i'll have my own credit card and register apple developer with my own credit card, it there any problem with it? as the subscribtion was bought from another credit card

    :(

    I noticed in the FAQ, it says that you can update your credit card info during the subscribtion , so that means i can change the credit card during the subscribtion?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  16. inafield

    inafield

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    The only thing that happens at the end of your 12 month subscription is that the Pro features in the editor stop working. Whatever you exported with Pro-only features will continue to work. And Unity is not going to come after you for revenue just because you sold a game and didn't keep your subscription.

    My personal opinion is that without a somewhat solid roadmap of releases, features, and timetable, it does not make sense to buy a subscription or full price until after Unite 2013 in Vancouver. Depending on information released or not released will then make the next "interesting" time to probably be the end of this year and the beginning of 2014 when we would start expecting new release information to come out.

    Obviously they want to make money, but they don't want to make people with regular purchased licenses angry or their subscribers angry. If they could show a time-table where people who were on subscription only paid a little bit more (or the same) in costs as people who paid for a regular license and upgraded to 5.0, then the benefits of "free" upgrades to subscribers would make a lot more sense. I don't recall what the upgrade fee from 3.x to 4.x was, but if we assume it's $750 for future versions, paying for 4.x Pro regular is $1500 with possible upgrade fee of $750 to 5.0 which is a total cost of $2250, another $750 for 6.0 would be $3000. If we assume (possibly wrongly) a 2 year life cycle for each major version, paying a subscription from now until the end of the 6.0 life cycle would be $2700 for the full 5.0 cycle and then a total of $4500 for the full 6.0 lifecycle. Basically this means that a subscription really is only for developers committed to the latest and greatest features and making money. It is not for people just starting out who should really just make games that don't require Pro-features and save up for Pro later. Which kind of sucks because dynamic shadows were part of my plan.

    On top of this, knowing that they are using FogBugz and have released some good blog posts about testing which is showing they are working hard to have better communication with their clients (us) and have a handle on these kinds of things. When you reverse engineer this, it means they probably didn't know when any of their versions were going to be released and are still learning like all other software companies are. How'd I figure that out? I read Dilbert comics :razz:
     
  17. orb

    orb

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    Yes, it feels like a safer bet to get a full Pro version whenever circumstances dictate it, than renting it. If Unity 5 drops right after people buy it, they tend to get a month's grace period anyway. People will generally know if we have at least another year before an upgrade is necessary, and can evaluate from there. Now the free version is pretty good for prototyping (shadows and navmeshes, yay), so people can wait a little longer.

    Or, possibly, you've tried to release software made by a team sometime in the past ;)
     
  18. trooper

    trooper

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    Try time your purchases below the x.5 mark, we purchased 3.5 then had to fork out for 4.0 within a 2 month period. Unity gave us some discounts but we would have been better off waiting the extra 2 months for 4.0.
     
  19. orb

    orb

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    Yeah, one could almost wish the cost of upgrades were relative to the time since buying a full version :)
     
  20. inafield

    inafield

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    Right, although what I listed is probably a best case scenario for people with subscriptions. That's also why I listed the two times when there may be more information coming. Once you're making money, it isn't really an issue. From my perception, a 2 year cycle is pretty fast (and somewhat necessary in Unity's case) for a game engine. Unreal Engine started out in 1998, had a 4 year gap (Unreal 2 2002), another 4 year gap (Unreal 3 2006), and then 8 years until Unreal 4 (2014). The reason I say that Unity's faster cycle (name one game engine/editor that has minor revisions released several times a year) is necessary is due to some catch up work and their choice to be the best game editor out there for multiple platforms. They've made had to make some big strides to get where they are now.

    I can neither confirm nor deny any present or future activities :D haha

    Time to go back to my boring day job. Boring programmer by day, indie-dev by night...

    Good info, thanks for the tip. I've seen a little talk somewhere else on the forums that some people are putting a 4.4 release around Christmas time (which sounds like a really short milestone planning period). I think hearing more at Unite 2013 Vancouver is best. I'll probably either buy right after Unite, or else wait until 2014, depending on the information.
     
  21. Noisecrime

    Noisecrime

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    So according to Unity post on facebook

    I'm actually rather surprised, especially considering how 'poor' a deal it is in comparison to other subscription (e.g. Adobe) and to the alternative of self-financing and just buying the Pro license. However if people want to use it then thats fine by me, just as long as Unity do not feel they can switch to the 'subscription' route for everybody. As pointed out many times in this thread, its just not a viable system for many, though with some tweaks it could be.

    Personally for me the cost would have to become at least equivalent to purchasing the licenses and there would have to be some criteria whereby you get to own a version at some point, so you are not forever locked into a subscription model. For example say you 'retire' from professional use of Unity, but still want to dabble with it. At that point paying the sort of subscription cost we have would just be silly (same goes for Adobe products subscription). Its an issue that I feel many people have completely missed, probably because they are far too young to even be thinking about such things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  22. Metron

    Metron

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    What bothers me is the fact that we have been very vocal about the non-sense of the current subscription fee. Anyone who can count to 4 should be able to do the math and see that the subscription doesn't have *any* advantage.

    To me, the Unity management has thus proven that it doesn't consider their loyal customers anymore and that they switched to a closed entity. Not taking into consideration and not discussing key points of their license model with their customers... that's where the decline starts.
     
  23. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I don't understand this talk of decline and so forth. Nothing has changed if you choose to ignore the existence of the subscription fee. If it's working for them then it's priced right for them.

    The only thing that stops me from subscribing right now is the commitment time. I don't want to be locked in for x time, and I also want to buy some bits of unity and rent other bits. But until then, I'm ok if I have to purchase.
     
  24. trooper

    trooper

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    Sorry if this has already been mentioned but....

    When it comes to business, cash is king.


    Most studios will probably upgrade every year and they will be looking to make games for as many years as they can, if we assume that a studio wants to make games for 5 years then the cost of subscription vs ownership works out to be the same, $4500.

    The difference is that the subscription offers a "deferred cost" which means you can get started on an Android/iOS title (with two developers) for $75*3*2 ($450) instead of $1500*3*2 ($9000).

    If you find yourself in a position where your business is not working out, you would sell off your assets to repay debt or if you are doing very well you would be handing over all software to whoever bought you out. Basically, you wouldn't be holding onto the licenses anyways (unless you are a hobbyist or sole trader etc).

    Obviously the longer you are in the business the more you'll save from owning your licenses, 10 years will give you a saving of 750 per license, you just have to figure out if your cash flow is more important than $750 over 10 years (in most cases, it should be).
     
  25. Noisecrime

    Noisecrime

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    Nope becuase your numbers are wrong. $4,500 for 5 years (60 months) subscription, vs new Unity version at say 20 months (though i'm pretty sure they are on almost two year cycle) that would be $1,500 (full) + $750 (upgrade) + $750 (upgrade) = $3000, so a massive difference, even if we go with 15 months between versions, thats still only $3,750 again quite a bit of a saving.

    No-one is complaining that subscriptions shouldn't be offered or that they don't offer a benefit to certain developers. However they are most definitely not comparable to current license purchasing and not suitable for everyone.

    I just hope that unlike Adobe, Unity do not see this as the only future, as not being able to own the software is a huge negative in my eyes. Of course as I said above, make the subscription equal or even less than the current license purchase cost and ensure that after X amount has been paid that you get to keep the current version when you stop your subscription (but no further updates), then fine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  26. trooper

    trooper

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    Don't be surprised when Unity start getting very close to 1 year per major update.
     
  27. Forge Vault

    Forge Vault

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    The subscription to me seems like a gesture to help developers that are unable to muster the full amount up front. Not to mention that consumers are more accustomed to monthly payments rather than putting down thousands of dollars - unity with a suite of licenses is like buying a car.

    Ownership would never work with this model because while on subscription your entitled to the latest unity, that would mean if unity 5 was released a day before your subscription ended then you would own it which is ludicrous.
     
  28. jashan

    jashan

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    I was, and a lot of others were, too. I haven't done statistics on this thread - but IIRC, there were also quite some people very vocal about how great they think it is. So in the end, it comes down to people having different opinions and perspectives.

    At the end of the day, when it comes to business, people vote with their wallet - and as it seems, that vote said "we wantz sose subscription, plz". So, while I still don't like the subscription model - as long as I can keep my perpetual licenses and have a major release cycle of approximately two years, all is fine.
     
  29. Wild-Factor

    Wild-Factor

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    It's not a "gesture to help developers", they just making more money.
    My phone company offer to buy IPhone (600 euros) with a monthly payment. They only ask a 5% increase on the total price for this credit. That's how you help your customers.
    Some cars can be rent with an optional buy after XXX time for this reduce price.

    I understand that is more convinent for some to say to her wife/husband, I'm going to spend 75$ every month instead of I'm going to spend 1500$.
    Also some don't have the full 1500$ in one time in their bank account.
    I also think that some pepole won't see the 12 months subscription and won't do the calculation of the total cost.
    But surely Unity don't do this to "help", and I can't blame them.
     
  30. nipoco

    nipoco

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    And with that you suggest that most people who buy the subscription are total morons?
     
  31. jashan

    jashan

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    No, I actually sometimes do like to talk like that. Dosat makz me a mauron? I hopes not.

    But sorry in case I offended anybody. I didn't mean to. Thank you for making me aware that this could come across like that.
     
  32. nipoco

    nipoco

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    No problem. It's all fine if you didn't mean it that way.